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According to Kabbala there is a special inyan to brink back non-Jewish descendants of Jews (zera Yisrael). Hopefully these people will become investigate Judaism, discover that they are not really Jewish and convert. I, in fact, have several friends who are products of marriages between Jewish men and non-Jewish women. They all converted and are now quite frum.
ZD, how would the bet din force them?
Yehudayona, so far as Ik now you are correct. However, there might be an issur of lifnei iver in staying with him.
Neville, what about marrying the children of someone who cheats in business or is a baal lashon hara? So far as the gerut is concerned, what counts is her intent when she went into the mikva. It could be that she was not told about this mitzva. It could be that she intended to leave him but had second thoughts later. We discussed this issue regarding a well-known gioret in a previous thread that was full of LH by “frum” Jews. Interestingly, those who attacked Rav Goren for revoking a conversion (which may not have even taken place) were quick to “revoke” hers.
Being “married” to a non-Jew is a lav as is a cohen being married to a gioret. On the other hand, chillul Shabbat is karret. It might thus be better to mekarev the cohen even if he might not leave her.
Joseph, it is not necessary to be right. It is necessary to be smart. If the Jewish partner is a cohen there is no other way other than divorce. However, if he is not it might be better in the long run to mekarev them and hope that the non-Jewish partner will undergo a halachic conversion and then they will get married properly.
Within the halachic framework it is also a Jewish principle. For example, an Ashkenazi does not tell a Sephardi not to eat kitniot during Pesach.
Nechomah, actually baruch Hashem I have been living in EY for almost 30 years. However, Hashem has not seen fit to give me such an apartment. I do have friends in RBS who have an individually-controlled unit but I did not ask everyone has it or if they put it in special.
Iiacisrmma, I was not just referring to השמעת קול. There are also issues of בן אדם לחבירו such as disturbing people’s peace, גזל שינה and impinging on their right to live normally in their homes (the smell). As I posted on another thread, if people want to be big machmirs they should do so in their interpersonal relations.
Winnie, it could be that the very new buildings have individually- controlled units. When I lived in Gilo 25 years ago the apartment did not have such a unit. The vaad habayit (building committee) decided when to give heat (pretty good – baruch Hashem I thawed out very quickly after a big snowstorm) and charged a (substantial) addition to the maintenance fee. The really old buildings do not have anything. Each tenant must heat for himself. Electric radiators and blow heaters are very common (charitable organizations give them out to the poor).
Mazganim are not that necessary in Yerushalayim in the summer but in other parts of the country they are common. I heard that in Eilat they have (or at least had at one time) “desert coolers” which work better and cheaper in dry climates.
As for your acquaintance, how does he heat his apartment? As I pointed out, gas and kerosene heaters are not so safe so he is sacrificing a Torah prohibition for the sake of a chumra (which may be the same prohibition and worse as per Dor.
I am waiting for a chumra on ben adam l’chavero or kiddush/non-chillul Hashem in relationships with non-frum Jews or gentiles.
Binyomint, the “regular” work is also needed to keep the power flowing (although today much of it is computerized). BTW, Rav Ovadia noted (Chazon Ovadia-Shabbat, volume 6 page 158) that this work is also needed for security reasons and is also lenient. On the other hand, if someone wants to be a big machmir he should not use electricity at all on Shabbat because of marit ayin. This, of course. also means using a gas or kerosene heater in the winter with all of the attendant dangers (or bundling up). He thus would not be able to live in the newer buildings in Yerushalayim as they have central heating which is not controlled by the individual residents.
Dor, that is not kosher, it is possibly mehadrin (if the generator makes noise or is smelly it is not even kosher). Rav Shlomo Zalman ruled that because electrical system repairs are needed for sick and elderly people all may benefit (ner l’echad, ner l’mea).
The fact of the matter is that Breslov was outed by all of the other Chassidic groups because of very puzzling statements attributed to Rabbi Nachman (he did not write any of his books – they were written in his name by his talmid Reb Natan). Among the charges were deviating form what had become traditional Chassidic views, thinking that he was Mashiach and claiming that he was greater than Moshe Rabbenu. Today the problem is magnified because anyone can call himself a Breslover and some subgroups have engaged in extremely questionable activities. While this is also true of Chabad to a certain extent they at least have an official bet din and organization which are very strong within the movement.
Joseph, do you have broad enough shoulders to disagree with Rambam (Hilchot Melachim 10:1)? If not, bring a source.
Rambam also distinguishes between two types of shogeg. A gentile who thinks that adultery is permitted is chayav but if he does not know that the woman is married he is patur.
LU, you are correct that there is a machloket but we have a general rule that where there is a safek d’rabbanan the halacha is lenient.
Joseph, actually there would be an interesting question regarding a gentile who thinks that he is a Jew (e.g. his mother’s mother’s mother did not convert properly and this fact was forgotten) and eats a ben pakua.
Joseph, what is authoritative? Rav Chaim David HaLevi, who was a Torah authority, said that the Torah does not dictate any particular form of government (as do Ibn Ezra and the Netziv on the mitzva to appoint a king) or economic system . Is that an authoritative statement that there is no authoritative statement?
LY, according to some opinions the halacha indeed does not apply in our time. Why do you have problems with the facts that poskim sometimes disagree and that there are halachic tools to deal with that in practical situations?
ZD, Schindler was perhaps a modern example of someone who acquires his world (to come) in a moment. He was indeed amoral and even was arrested twice for public drunkenness. Moreover, he joined the Nazi Party in the Sudetenland well before the munich agreement and spied for Germany. One of his survivors, Murray Pantirer said:
“He came to my house once, and I put a bottle of cognac in front of him, and he finished it in one sitting. When his eyes were flickering – he wasn’t drunk – I said this is the time to ask him the question ‘why’ ? His answer was ‘I was a Nazi, and I believed that the Germans were doing wrong … when they started killing innocent people – and it didn’t mean anything to me that they were Jewish, to me they were just human beings, menschen – I decided I am going to work against them and I am going to save as many as I can’. And I think that Oscar told the truth, because that’s the way he worked.”
After the war he was hounded by anti-Nazis as a former Party member and by Nazis as someone who saved Jews. Howvever, for what it is worth, he is buried in the Catholic cemetery on Har Zion.
Joseph, even political and economic issues? What about vaccinations?
LU, if you think that there are non-frum people who read this forum you are correct (I would also add the articles that emphasize that someone who was killed or injured is frum although this is a common thing – another site wrote that a certain person killed was Israeli while the YWN wrote that he was frum). On the other hand, if there are protesters who read this then it is a rebuke.
LU, as stam yainam is a rabbinic prohibition (as are the disabilities on non-observant Jews) a safek is l’kula (and here it is a d’rabbanan within a d’rabbanan). Certainly if you are in a situation where you might push the person further away you should be meikal. If you google “non-observant Jews wine” you will get a number of articles on the subject.
LU, on the contrary. The extremists are doing the chillul Hashem. Opposing them is a kiddush Hashem.
Little, only selling “kosher” phones to Jewish customers would open him up to fines for discrimination. Moreover, halachically it is muttar mi manafshach. If smartphones are muttar (and I know at least one rav who has one) it is certainly muttar. Even if it is not, being that there are many gentiles who sell the phones it is only a question of
מסייע לדבר עבירה. This is allowed in a case where the aveira has not yet been committed ( Netziv, Responsa Meshiv Devar 2:31-32). Even more so being that it is not at all clear that the customers will go into inappropriate sites.Mr. Crawley, he is not considered a gentile. He simply has a few legal disabilities in common with gentiles. However, his kiddushin would be a good kiddushin, to give just one example.
In any case, as i posted this does not hold true today.
Not only is it a chillul Hashem but it causes more chillul Shabbat as police will have to come. Not to mention throwing rocks it itself chillul Shabbat besides the fact that someone who does that is a potential murderer c”v.
They would do much better if they would invite the customers for a meal (I actually knew a couple who went to live in Tel Aviv and went to Dizengoff St of Shabbat nights and invited people to dinner).
Leviyitz and Joseph,
Rav Kook, in a letter to a rav whose sons became communists, compared the spirit of the times to an evil seductress (see Sanhedrin 26b with Tosafot d”h hechashud). I heard that Rav Scheinberg also said that today the forces of tuma are so strong that even a yeshiva bachur who goes OTD can be considered a tinok shenishba.
Rav Ovadia ruled that a Jew who does not keep Shabbat does not cause wine to be prohibited (Yabia Omer 1 YD 1).
Rav Asher Weiss also says that today a Jew who does not keep Shabbat is not necessarily considered to be like a goy. That would only be if he disconnects from the Jewish people (Rav Weiss said if he marries out).
Being executed by the government by is an atonement even without teshuva (Baba Batra 10b). As for their status in life, if someone it is very complicated. Rav Dessler says in Kuntras Nekudat HaBechira that the weights for mitzvot and aveirot are different for each individual according to each one’s spiritual level. It could be that if someone from a secular background only refrains from pork and shellfish Hashem considers him better than someone from a yeshivish background who relies on various leniencies. Moreover, one act can get a person into Olam HaBa (Avoda Zara 17a).
LB, I thought that the CR exists to allow people to vent their frustrations on their fellow Jews without suffering consequences. This is actually beneficial as a safety valve. However, it could be that it is more for the spectators. I think therefor I am (René Descartes ). Of course, we could all be pseudonyms for politicians.
Maybe no one here even exists. We were made up by magnates to attract people to read ads.
Akuperma, a business owner is so incompetent will be not be in business very long.
Gadol, you are correct regarding Orthodox Jews. Today’s NY times reported that a court officer with an obviously non-Jewish name was arrested for stealing fine payments. His ethnicity was not mentioned although it could easily be discerned from his name. However, I think that secular people expect “religious” people to be angels. Chazal discuss this (Yoma 86a).
Yytz, then you consider the stock market to be a leftist institution?
Joseph,
1. Marriage for gentiles is only an agreement to live together. Once one of them walks out they are considered divorced.
2. There has to be at least one witness to an act.
3. Ramban says regarding Shimon and Levy that Noahide judges may decline to hear cases because of fear. There is also an opinion that their judges have discretion to impose lesser penalties (Chelkat Yoav Tanyana 14 – and see Iggerot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:68 that even a murderer should not be executed if he killed in the heat of anger but only because of a cruel nature or disregard for the aveira or if there is a general disregard fore this).MW, IMHO it is because of the history of putting people in the back of the bus to express their supposed inferiority.
Huju, in fact after a big scandal involving a major tzedaka fund that operated in NY and NJ a frum accounting firm was hired to manage the fund. Really every fund should have an attorney and accountant (or someone who is both) to keep them on the right side of the law as well as prevent embezzlement.
It should also be noted that if the bus company was awarded the route by a public entity or receives subsidies it is subject to anti-discrimination laws. If not it may or may not have a religious exemption and the laws in Canada and the US might be different.
Once a woman deliberately sat next to an Ashkenazi rosh yeshiva. He changed his seat and there was a big argument. The next day she sat next to a Sephardi rodh yeshiva. He ignored her and she got off disappointed. A bochur who saw both incidents asked him about it. He said “Hu rav. Ani chacham”.
Joseph, one can establish gederim for himself but not for others. Even for himself he must be careful as an unwarranted chumra in one area can cause unwarranted kulot in other areas (e.g. children who refuse to eat it their parents’ homes because the parents’ level of kashrut is more lenient).
There is a general problem with people who think that stealing from the government or a company (I heard about a “frum” insurance company employee who helped people get payments even though they did not have policies – he actually thought that he was doing chesed) is not stealing. Rav Moshe thought differently and also prohibited cheating on the Regents exams (IM CM II:29-30).
This has led to such tremendous chillulei Hashem that the IRS will not accept statements from yeshivot. Fortunately, the rabbinic leadership is responding with seminars featuring both poskim and frum attorneys on business ethics. Hopefully there will be a turnaround.
Yytz, the Communists also banned trade unions other than their figurehead unions. Moreover, Hitler ym”s railed against capitalism and encouraged cartels. Basically, fascist economic theory states that all economic activity must be directed by the state even though it remains nominally in private hands (dirigism).
As for workers’ participation in the economy, the fact of the matter is that the main shareholders in the US are employee pension funds. There is even an ideology called “libertarian socialism” which favors organization of businesses as workers’ cooperatives without government interference. Would you call this leftist or rightist?
She can become a talmidat chacham. See Sanhedrin 96a regarding the children of ammei aratzot.
Yekke, I already asked a rav that question. He did not have an answer. However, I contend that someone who does not believe in ethical monotheism has no inherent limits to what he will do. In fact, the most destructive war in history was started by two atheists, Hitler and Stalin ym”s. interestingly, a recent study published in Nature Human Behaviour shows that even most atheists consider atheists to be immoral (although it would seem to be that “amoral” would be more accurate.
Yekke, already in Volozhin he preferred to speak Hebrew. When Rav Charlap first came to his yeshiva he addressed RK in Yiddish. RK said “Being that you are new hear I will not be makpid on you. However, you should know that one does not address me in Jargon”. All of his letter to his son, brother and father were written in Hebrew. He did write to his mother in Yiddish but that was probably because she simply did not understand Hebrew.
One side are neveilot and the other are tereifot. The reds are terrorizing Jews on campuses and banning them from rallies and the fascists are are spreading antisemitism on websites and social media. A pox on both their houses.
Unless you are the shaliach tzibbur you have no obligation to daven at the tzibbor’s pace or to take a certain amount of time. Rav Chaim Soloveichik was known for daven “quickly”. On the other hand, many rabbanim daven “slowly” and have standing instructions not to wait for them so as not to inconvenience the rest. Speak to Hashem like you would speak to a king or other important person (think of a job interviewer).
Akuperma,
1. Secular Yiddish newspapers in the US either folded or went over to English years ago.
2. Yiddish and German grammar is not at all like English grammar. For example, Yiddish and German separate the prefix form the main verb in sentences and put the infinitive at the end (e.g. in German “I am beginning to learn German” is “Ich fange an, Deutsch zu lernen” – to begin” is “anfangen”.Joseph, wrong again. Most Jews in Israel are Sepharadim and bnei Eidot HaMizrach. the vast majority of French Jews are also Sepharadim.
RY, speakers of Swiss-German might understand a Yiddish speaker if he speaks slowly (so I was told by a Swiss-German speaker) but Germans would have a problem, especialy being that many Yiddish words are of Hebrew or Slavic origin (e.g. “bubbe” comes from the Russian “babuska” whereas in German it is “Oma”. See “Yiddish vs. German: An Experiment” online.
See also Megilla 13a that anyone who denies a”z is called a Yehudi.
Yekke, you can find his opinion in Bet HaBechira on href=”http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40773&st=&pgnum=325&hilite=”>Baba Kama 113b .
This was also the opinion of Rav Kook (Iggeret 89), Maharatz Chajes (Tifferet l’Yisrael, Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch (<Collected ritings v. 7 “Talmudic Judaism and Society”, Rav David Tzvi Hoffman (Fundamentals of Judaism edited by Jacob Breuer ch. 8 , Rav Yaakov Emden (on Pirkei Avot 4:13), Rav Aharon Soloveichik ( “Logic of the Heart, Logic of the Mind pages 139, 151) and Rav Nahum Rabinovich, and Rav Lichtenstein in the name of Rav Joseph Soloveichik (Laws of Medical Treatment on Shabbat by Rabbi Dov Karrol, who all say that gentiles who have an orderly society are considered gerim toshavim. RAS adds that the mitzva of קידוש השם only applies where there is an ethical imperative to so act (קדש עצמך במותר לך) – we do many things despite the fact that the other nations dislike them.
Yekke, you can find his statement here .
Rav Kook wrote:
“אהבת הבריות צריכה להיות חיה בלב ובנשמה… להיטיב לעמים כולם… תכונה זו היא שמסגלת את רוחא דמלכא משיחא לחול על ישראל (מכשירה את ישראל לרוחו של מלך המשיח). בכל מקום שאנו מוצאים רמזי שנאה (כלפי הגויים), הרינו יודעים ברור שהכוונה רק על הרשעה, שהיא מרתקת (אוחזת) בחזקה את האיגוד של עמים רבים, גם בהווה ובייחוד בימים מקדם שהיתה זוהמת העולם יותר מסואבת. אבל עלינו לדעת כי נקודת החיים, אור וקודש, תמיד לא זזה מהצלם האלוקי שנחנן בו האדם בכללו, וחוננו בו כל עם ולשון…” (מידות ראי”ה אהבה סעיף ה’):
“…העיקר כדעת המאירי שכל העמים שהם גדורים בנימוסים הגונים בין אדם לחברו הם כבר נחשבים לגרים תושבים ….” (אגרות הראי”ה פט).
This was also the view of Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch (The Collected Writings p. 225), Rav Yaakov Emden (on Pirkei Avot 4:13), Rav David Tzvi Hoffman (Fundamentals of Judaism ed. by Rav Jacob Breuer p. 182), Maharatz Chayes, and Rav Aharon Soloveitchik (Logic of the Heart, Logic of the Mind pp. 139 and 151. According to RAS the obligation of kiddush Hashem applies because there is a “deeper ethical responsibility” (קדש עצמך במותר לך). This follows from the fact that we do many things even though the other nations do not like them.
Avram, you should try to stop him. Throw something at him. Pepper spray him. The call the cops as he will undoubtedly try again.
Yekke and DY,
1. The Rema says that the “only” reason for having to return it is kiddush Hashem. Is that light in your eyes? May one compel a fellow Jew to do a kiddush Hashem?
2. Rav Menashe Klein disagrees with the Netivot ( <a href=”http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1878&st=%d7%92%d7%96%d7%9c&pgnum=373
“>Mishna Halachot 6:305)). This is also the view of Rav Ovadia (הלכה ליום רביעי כ”ט טבת תשע”ד). In any case, the Netivot himself says that the thief must pay for the object.3. The Chatam Sofer says (v. 6 Sukka 30) that the Rambam holds that one must return the object.
4. See also Yerushalmi Baba Kama 4:1 and Biur HaGra EH 28:5.
5. You have not addressed by citation of the Meiri nor have you addressed my other points.
How about putting them and the white nationalists on an island together?
According to Ramban even if there is no mitzva of hashava there might be an obligation of “keduushim tiyu” (see Be’er HaGola CM 348:5).
Trump is right. America is becoming polarized (see Antifa and the Alt-Right, Growing in Opposition to One Another in National Review – with antisemitism featured prominently on both sides (besides the BDS movement and its emphasis on “liberation politics”, the BLM movement has conflated antisemitism into its victimhood message, as has the toeva movement.
In fact, this is what characterized Germany at the end of the Weimer Republic period with frequent street battles between Nazis and Communists. On the other hand, I did hear that there is a tradition going back to Rav Chaim of Volozhin that Jews will never be persecuted as Jews in America. If America did not go fascist eighty years ago when all of the conditions were right it probably never will. Einstein, in fact, said this in response to Gödel’s assertion that the Constitution could be so interpreted.
Yekke,
1. Please cite your source for your contention that the thief does not have to return the object he stole from a goy. How else would he do teshuva?
2. The Meiri says that gentiles who have the rule of law are treated like Jews for these matters and Rav Hirsch and Rav Kook pasken like him.
3. The kiddush Hashem would be greater than the chillul Hashem, as it always is (Yerushalmi Kiddushin 4:1).
4. If he steals from a goy he will also steal from a Jew (Tanna d’Bei Eliahu and see Rema CM 388:12).
5. Many shoplifters have various mental issues that cause this behavior. If he is one of them you will be doing him a favor as he will be sent to rehab. It might even be an aveira on “al taamod la dam r’eicha” not to report him.
6. I do not suggest that you take physical action for various practical reasons. I once saw a girl get on the back entrance of the bus and start to proceed towards the rear. I gave her a look and she shamefacedly went to pay the driver.