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1. The term “Chareidi” to refer to anyone observant was in vogue 100 years ago. Since then the number of labels has grown. “Dati” refers to non-Chareidi frum.
2. So who orchestrated the rise of nationalism in the 19th century and who is orchestrating its present revival?
3. Which Chareidim? There are also various sub-groups. Besides the different Chassidic groups, there is Lithuanian, which is further divided between Bnei Beraq and Yerushalayim. There is also a new group of working Chareidim. There are the olim from America and France who are more like Chardal (Chareidi Leumi) except for not having been in the IDF. As for following gedolim, I can tell you that at least in the Anglo Chareidi world Rav Kook, Rav Yisraeli and even academics such as Prof. (Emeritus) Schochatman and Dr. Vigoda (Asst. AG for Jewish law) are quoted in shiurim (I have heard this with my own ears).
Lilmod, you are absolutely wrong. “Dati” is used for someone who is considered (some people talk the talk but in private don’t walk the walk but that is true across the board) a member of the non-Chareidi (or Chareidi Leumi – Chardal) religious public. Someone who is up front about no longer keeping mitzvot is a datlash/it (dati/a leshe’avar – formerly religious). Someone who cuts corners is “dati lite”. I have also heard of people named Datia, apparently the Hebrew equivalent of the Yiddish name Fruma.
Xtians and Zoroastrians notwithstanding, anything the Samech-Mem does requires Hashem’s permission. This is stated explicitly in Sefer Iyov. I actually once heard a suggestion that the miracles were performed through non-observant Jews to confuse him.
Time, where is that record? The Briskers were Rambamists. In any case I will reiterate. Who are “We”? Rav Kapach is certainly not in that group.
Joseph, quantum theory, which Einstein dismissed, has partially overturned it. It would be interesting to think about how it relates to the question of free will vs. Hashem’s foreknowledge.
What about the Quakers? The name is a translation of “Chareidim”.
Winnie, the same with “yom”. It sometimes means time period (in English also we say “in his day”). So the six days of Creation might be six time periods. Interestingly, archaeologists say that writing only started a bit over 5,000 years ago. It cannot be known when people began to speak but either could be considered the beginning of the world so far as Judaism is concerned.
Lilmod,
1. Rav Kook also did not necessarily take statements literally. For example, he said that the Theory of Evolution could be reconciled with Torah views.
2. So look them up. You can certainly find the books in any Torah library and even on-line.
Here are Rambam’s statements:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9462&st=&pgnum=27
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9463&st=&pgnum=31
Here is Maharam Shick’s opinion:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1494&st=&pgnum=260&hilite=
3. So ask whomever is your rav or look up the various contemporary opinions. You can start with “Challenge” edited by Rav by Aryeh Carmell and Cyril Domb, which you can purchase on-line.
MW, who are “we”?” I once heard that someone did not like something that was done in a certain shul. He said to the rav “We do not do that”. The rav replied “we do”.
Lilmos, TY. Actually some Geonim, Rishonim and Achronim do say that Chazal were wrong about scientific matters and others say that they were actually talking about the spiritual counterparts of the physical world (on this see “Did Chazal Know Science? (Rhetorical Question)” posted on-line by the Bet Midrash of Bayswater).
Sources:
Teshuvos HaGeonim 394:
Our sages were not doctors and said what they did based on experience with the diseases of their time. Therefore, there is no commandment to listen to the sages [regarding medical advice] because they only spoke from their opinion based on what they saw in their day.
*Rambam, Moreh Nevuchim 3:14:
*Rambam, Moreh Nevuchim 2:8:
It is one of the ancient beliefs, both among the philosophers and other people, that the motions of the spheres produced mighty and fearful sounds… This belief is also widespread in our nation. Thus our Sages describe the greatness of the sound produced by the sun in the daily circuit in its orbit. The same description could be given of all heavenly bodies. Aristotle, however, rejects this, and holds that they produce no sounds. You will find his opinion in the book The Heavens and the World (De Coelo). You must not find it strange that Aristotle differs here from the opinion of our Sages. The theory of the music of the spheres is connected with the theory of the motion of the stars in a fixed sphere, and our Sages have, in this astronomical question, abandoned their own theory in favour of the theory of others. Thus, it is distinctly stated, “The wise men of other nations have defeated the wise men of Israel.” It is quite right that our Sages have abandoned their own theory: for speculative matters every one treats according to the results of his own study, and every one accepts that which appears to him established by proof.
Rabbeinu Avraham ben HaRambam, Ma’amar al Derashos Chazal:
Maharam Schick, Teshuvas Maharam Schick 7
: Matters that were not received by Chazal as halachah leMoshe miSinai, but rather which they said according to their own reasoning – and with something that is not received [from Sinai] and has no root in our Torah, but rather comes from investigation and experience, it is difficult to determine [that it is true]. And there are many occasions when the sages determined, according to their own intellects, that a matter was a certain way, and the subsequent generation analyzed the matter further and disputed the earlier view.
* Regarding Rambam’s opinion, in his introduction to Perek Chelek he says that all of the aggadic statements are very deep metaphors.
Chazal themselves say that they deferred to gentile scientists (Pesachim 94b and Sanhedrin 5b).
However, either way you slice it we do not learn this-worldly scientific facts from the Gemara and midrashim. We learn how to conduct are lives in accordance with Halacha and ethical principles. According to all opinions, someone who wants to be a doctor goes to medical school. When Rav Hutner’s talmid muvchak, Rabbi Israel Kirzner, decided to become an economist he went to Brooklyn College and then NYU where he studied under Ludwig von Mises, who was an anti-religious Jew.
You should be consistent. If your father was Ashkenazi you should be Ashkenazi until you get married (you will not have to change your hashkafa, only your minhagim although some poskim allow keeping your davening nusach if trying to change will hurt your kavana). As for habara, if you learned Hebrew according to the Israeli habara you can use it in davening (the same goes if you are of Hungarian or German descent and learned the Lithuanian accent, etc.) as trying to daven differently could hurt your kavana. Some say that in any case you should pronounce Hashem’s name with “oy” atthe end rather than “ay” as the latter sounds like “my lords” but others disagree. See “????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????” (on-line).
First, I will repeat my post above regarding Rav Kook’s objection to labels (and BTW, Chassidut has changed greatly form its populist roots to adopt intellectual Torah learning).
“Chareidi’ism”, as it is called, is a movement. In general, it rejects secular studies and sends women to support their families and thus is a re-interpretation of Judaism. There is also Chareidi Leumi (Chardal), which is Zionistic, only opposes secular studies not connected to parnassa (e.g. Philosophy) and emphasizes Torah learning much more strongly than the traditional Mizrachnikim.
Rav kook was talking about a specific legal issue. In many cases poskim say that nature has changed or that we do not understand what Chazal meant 9for example, there is a cherem of the Gaonim against using the medical advice in the Gemara). See “Medicine in the Gemara” by Elli Friedman (on-line).
Neville,
1. Good riddance to Yiddish! It is no more than an a dialect of Alemannic German. In fact, I have a friend whose wife is from Switzerland. She said that she can understand Yiddish if the person speaks slowly.
2. Not all Ashkenazic names are worth keeping. If someone could not pay a high enough bribe he received a derogatory name. For example, “Krumbein” means “Cramp”. Some names were nice in their original places but not in new places. For example, “Fink” is often a name of levi’im because it means “finch”. As the finch is a songbird it came to mean I squealer in English.
3. Actually, the Jewish settlement was found by Sephardim. Observant Ashkenazim who came here also adopted many of their customs, especially beingthat in many cases the Gra and Chassidic leaders agreed with the Bet Yosef against the Rema. For example, not wearing tefillin during Chol HaMoed and ducahaning every day (at least outside the Galil – there for some reason they only duchan on Shabbat Musaf).
4. I try to love all of Hashem’s creations and especially Jews.
It is fairly obvious if the person is drunk/homeless. Do not do anything yourself unless you are a qualified to give medical aid. You can make matters worse. Even if you are not actually at fault you could set yourself up for a major lawsuit. Call the local emergency number (in the US 911, in Israel 100).
No one outside the Chareidi and Chiloni extreme Left is against the state. People are are against the government, people are against the present make-up of the Supreme Court, but no one wants the state dismantled. This is a critical difference. Louis XIV notwithstanding the state is not the government or even the constitutional framework. The Wikipedia defines “state” as “a type of polity that is an organized political community living under a single system of government”. Thestate, like a corporation, continues while governments and constitutions come and go. France, for example, is now on its fifth constitution and has been a monarchy. However, no one says that it is a different state.
Lightbrite, if Hashem does not have a body how can He feel chilly?
In Chul they are much more likely to go OTD. Even c”v marry out.
Often the choice is not between good and bad but between bad and worse. Tillerson might be able to calm down relations between the US and Russia. Apparently Bolton is going to be Deputy Secretary. According to the State Dept. website the Deputy “serves as Acting Secretary of State in the Secretary’s absence; and assists the Secretary in the formulation and conduct of U.S. foreign policy and in giving general supervision and direction to all elements of the Department. Specific duties and supervisory responsibilities have varied over time.” If Tillerson defers to him on professional matters (and as a good exec he must be able to do this) things could work out well iy”H.
Rav Moshe says it is permitted to take public transportation if necessary (Iggerot Moshe, Even HaEzer, 2:14). All of these far-out chumrot are gezerot that almost none of the public can keep. The result of pushing them will be a light attitude towards real halachot. This, in fact, is happening in Israel with the craze to find a way for everything to be under the prohibition of kitniyot during Pesach. Next they wil claim that an Ashkenazi can’t talk to a Sephardi because he might have kitniyot on his breathe.
I would think that any Jew would refer to any soldier who saved him as his hero. Moreover, American exceptionalism is an empiric fact. America is a nation of nations. In many ways it has been the Am Yisrael of the gentiles (e.g. seeking tikkun olam). IMHO, an America based on traditional American values would be the perfect partner for an Israel based on traditional Jewish values. It is for this reason that I share the view of David Brog and Yoram Hazony, as expressed on-line in “The Nationalist Spirit of 2016: A Conservative Spring?” that the rise of nationalism is good for the Jews.
In any case, I must agree with Joseph (difficult as it is for me to type these words – LOL) regarding hakarat hatov. A book, “At Home in Two Countries: The Past and Future of Dual Citizenship” by Peter J. Spiro, has even been published attesting to the benefits of dual identification (full disclosure: I have only read the review and I unfortunately do not receive a commission for mentioning it).
YW, Lilmod.
Joseph, the Sate of Israel’s murder rate includes terrorist murders (bli ayin hara attacks in the last couple of years have been almost completely unsuccessful) – and also “family honor” crimes. Civilian war deaths have also been, ba”h, negligible. In fact, baruch Hashem, the rain of scud missiles in the first Gulf War resulted in only two deaths – one heart attack from fear and an asphyxiation death due to not putting on a gas mask properly.
My question is why are you motzi dibbat haAretz? Are you wracked by guilt over not making aliya or are have you been elected President of the Association of Erev Ravniks and Spies?
Time, who says that Homo Sapiens wiped out the Neanderthals and Denisons? Scientists postulate that they were wiped out by climate change, some other catastrophe or were assimilated into humans (in fact, Neanderthal DNA has been found in modern people).
Joseph, I checked and the crime rate in Lakewood is times higher than in Israel. The murder rate is three times that of Israel.
I believe in Hashem and have seen his hashgacha in my life. It follows that I must keep my obligations to Him.
Lightbrite, once a bachur was attacked by an anti-Semite who was wielding a knife. He immediately made a beracha “vetzianu al kiddush Hashem’. The assailant was so impressed he put away the knife. The bachur pointed to his chest and said “Umm! Umm!”.
Lilmod, once wjhen I hitchhiked (in Yehuda v’Shomron it is widespread and one can usually even tell the driver’s destination by a windshield sticker) and was asked to pay for the ride with a devar Torah. I told the driver that I heard from one of his talmidim that Rav Gustman prohibited listening to tapes of shiurim while driving as oine could be distracted. The driver went into a long pilpul about why he thoughtt hat it is permitted.
Lilmod,
1. I wrote that it is a machloket. I do not remember where but see Shoftim ch. 11 that Sichon acquired part of Ammon by conquest and that this acquisition gave him legal ownership. Thus, Israel was not violating the commandment not to take land from Ammon when it took this area.
2. My point is that states have rights that individuals do not have. An individual may not imprison someone to prevent crime and certainly may not kill someone for that purpose.
Lilmod, the libertarians notwithstanding, it is clear that states may do what individual may not do. A state may imprison or even execute people. Individuals may not. In any case, the discussion is to whom America belongs at least b’diavad.
We are allowed to start a war in order to widen EY. However, such a war needs the approval of a navi and the Sanhedrin.
Lilmod, it is in their commentaries to commentary on Pirkei Avot ch. 3. BTW Comlink, ???? us feminine so it is ??? ?????? (sheiva chochmot).
Lilmod, you are correct. As they did not have the concept of private ownership of land but only the usufruct the Indians thought that they were ripping off the Europeans by selling land that was not theirs. In any case, I recall a machloket in the Gemara regarding whether or not a gentile king may take another’s land but all agree that if he does he acquires it. This was Yiftach’s rebuttal to the King of Ammon.
Is it all right to keep and arm bears?
Joseph, there are separate statistics by race and gender. While it varies from state to state the overall white life expectancy in the US is 79.12 You can google “LIFE EXPECTANCY WHITE AMERICAN”. Israel is number 6 in the world (there are ties for 4 and 5) at 82.5. The annual World Happiness Report published by the Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN) ranked Israel as the 11th happiest country in the world for a third year in a row. The US is number 13.
Math, Physics, Astronomy, Logic, Musicology, Measurement and Medicine.
Health, who is the average frum person?
Lilmod, it depends. The Yerushalmi (Hoiriot 1:1) ays not to listen if they tell you that right is left and left is right. The Chafetz Chaim and the Be’er Sheva say that it is talking about a case where one is certain. In any case, where there are many gedolim and certainly today when some are controlled by courtiers (askanim) it is not so simple.
Health, so are all of the gedolim you have previously mentioned. I will, however, mention a few who are still alive (ad 120). Rav Dov Lior, Rav Nahum Rabinowitz, Rav Shmuel Eliahu. If you want opinion of a Chareidi gadoil see Mishne Halachot 15:213.
AY,
1. I dispute your claim about the majority of the gedolim. In any case, gedolim are not Hashem and can err. They erred when they told Jews not ot leave Europe.
2. Actually the killer was Avraham Tehomi. However, he was (so he claimed) sent by Ben-Zvi/
3. Chaim Weizman had already reached an agreement with Abdulla’s father Faisal in which the latter enthusiastically supported the idea of a Jewish state.
Lilmod, a woman once told me that she was walking alone late at night in Yerushalayim when she realized that a man was walking behind her. She quickened her pace and he quickened his. He then passed her, turned around, wagged his finger at her and said “You’re not in America!” Of course, You can see a statistical comparison on-line ( Country vs country: Israel and United States compared: Crime stats) – and keep in mind that the Israeli crime rate includes “family honor” killings.
1. Actually Rambam (Hilchot Gerushin 2:20) says that beating him gets rid of his yetzer hara. However, Rambam lived in a time when the Jewish communities had internal autonomy and the bet din was the officially recognized. Outside of Israel, where the Chief Rabbinate courts handle marriage and divorce for Jews(and have various means of persuasion at their disposal, including imprisonment, but not corporal punishment), there is no longer an official bet din (bet din kavua). Certainly, three rabbis who hang out a shingle, do not constitute a bet din kavua.
2. In the US no one has a halachic obligation to recognize this or that bet din. In fact, I heard that there are several people in Monsey who were put in cherem by one community but receive all honors in their own shuls.
3. There is no mitzva to have a person beaten in order to extract a get from him. It is an option that a bet din kavua has. Thus doing it is a chillul Hashem. This is similar to returning a lost object to a gentile where it is expected that people will return lost objects.
4. Applying social pressure probably does not constitute force as he can choose to ignore it. The same goes for informing his employer. However, the bet din or other organization should be careful to run afoul of the libel and slander laws.
5. Once someone in Posen became a Reformer so Rabbi Akiva Eiger, upon the wife’s request, ordered him to give a get. He refused so RAE read him the first mishna in Kiddushin regarding how a married woman becomes single. The guy laughed, walked out of the office and fell down the stairs.
Health, not naming them is suspicious. I very have a good laugh when in Geuula or Mea Shearim when I see paskevilim signed “The Rabbanim Shelita”. However, you may be an exception. ??? ?? ?? ????
There are three opinions on Thanksgiving. Rav Hutner says that it is avoda zara, Rav Soloveichik celebrated it himself and Rav Moshe says that it is a foolishness but not prohibited. Eating turkey (in general) is another machloket.
Zahavasdad, people generally are inured to dangers to which they are used. When I first came to Israel and told people from France that I was from the Bronx they asked how I could live in such a dangerous place. For that matter, when the first Gulf War broke the chevruta of a friend of mine received a hysterical phone call from his mother. After she calmed down she told him in a matter-of-fact manner that his brother had been robbed at gunpoint.
Abba, actually I heard on the radio an interview with a firefighter who said that the water is combined with other materials. I think the main problems are that it is very dry and there has been a very strong east wind. In fact, I heard that tehre were also large fires in Syria and Jordan.
Health, you are correct. It is completely prohibited for you as you would destroy morale. Unless, of course, you became a secret agent in a terrorist group.
Health, did you ever hear of Djemal Pasha? How about the Damascus blood libel (when it was part of the Ottoman Empire)?
Yehudayona, he is a member of the armchair club along with generals who never served in any army and maybe don’t even know what end the bullet comes out, economists who never even took Eco 1, poskim who don’t know on which side of the Gemara is Rashi’s commentary and on which side is Tosafot’s, etc.
MW, I take it that anyone who does less than you is Reform and anyone who does more is a fanatic.
Health,
1. Do you really want us to be under Erdogan? Or are you suggesting a turkey for PM? Perhaps you are simply in the Thanksgiving spirit.
2. I want him to come sooner which is why I say “reidheet tzemichat geulateinu”.
Until it becomes common it might be a problem of marit ayin. However, I do not see the difference between a tefilla app and a siddur. In fact, the former has an advantage as that portions such as “yaaleh v’yavo” come up on the proper days so that it is more difficult to forget. In addition, shul siddurim are often worn out and even have pages missing. I did read an article by someone who lies the smell of old siddurim but I suppose that a smell app can be added.
Health, you are correct. So stop writing anti-Israel diatribes. Anti-Semites might be reading the CR. This is not at all far-fetched. A goy I knew in NY threw out to me that the Satmars are anti-Israel and even called them the Sages of the Torah.