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December 6, 2015 6:06 am at 6:06 am in reply to: When will the chareidim join the army like the Chashmonaim? #1115233Avi KParticipant
And not all are cut out for full-time learning. How about a compromise? Those who are star learners will for a new unit called Cheil HaTalmud. They will open each seder with a dedication of their learning for the success of the IDF and give shiurim to the troops. Those who are cohanim will exhort them before they go into combat.
Avi KParticipantThere was one in Brisk who made a bar mitzva and invited the whole town. They were afraid not to go but how could they eat his food? The Bet HaLevi went to him.
BHL : Do you steal?
Crook: That’s my parnassa.
BHL : Do you desecrate Shabbat?
Crook: Business is business.
BHL : Do you kill people.
Crook: If I have to.
BHL : Do you eat nevilot and tereifot?
Crook: The rav suspects me? Does the rav think that I am a goy?
Avi KParticipantCharlie, I did forget. TY for reminding me.
Avi KParticipantCharlie, how did you forget that Joe Lieberman was AG of CT and that Michael Mukassey was Bush II’s second AG? BTW, I heard of a case decades ago where a Jew was given a summons for operating his pushcart on Sun in NYC. When he went to court he explained that he kept Shabbat and could not take off two days per week. The conversation went like this:
Judge : What do you do on Sat?
Vendor: I go to a synagogue.
Judge : Do you go there every Sat?
Vendor: Yes.
Judge : Did you go there this past Sat?
Vendor: Yes.
Judge : What parsha was read?
The vendor answered correctly and the judge dismissed the summons adding “If you hadn’t known I would have hanged you”.
Avi KParticipantZahavasdad, I have thought for a long time that the frum are afraid to form the government. If they would get the highest number of seats in the Knesset they would demand a recount. However, halachic solutions must be found so that Israel can be completely run according to Tora. Perhaps running the airport with Druze, Arabs who hold citizenship and Russians who are not halchically Jewish. Perhaps a widening of Rav Shlomo Zalman’s heter for the electric company (a plane might have to make an emergency landing).
Avi KParticipantZahavasdad, why is that a problem. First of all, the drivers are almost certainly gentiles. Secondly, it is pikuach nefesh as there are elderly and unfirm peopel who will not be able to get their meds, not to mention the fact that an ambulance might need to get through. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach allowed using the electric company’s electricity on Shabbat even though Jews might fix problems because of the consideration of elderly, infirm, babies, etc.
Avi KParticipantFlatbusher, also the kiddush Hashem. For that matter, the same can be said for being someone who learns Tora. The Gra says (Even Sheleima 2) that Tora is compared to water because it makes everything grow. Someone with naturally good middot who learns will become even better but the opposite is also true.In fact, Rav Aviner said that a Tora learner who has bad middot will add ??? to ??? as we say here by finding “frum” excuses for what he does.
Avi KParticipantRav Chaim Brisker famously said that a nebbich apikoros is still an apikoros . On the other hand, Rav Gustman said that today’s non-believers are ignoramuses not apikorim. In Vilna the apikorsim knew all of Shas. I am willing to judge the OOs favorably and think that they are tinnokot shenishbu regarding hashkafa and/or think (albeit erroneously IMHO) that they are saving what they can among certain types of lost sheep.
Avi KParticipantMalei, unfortunately many people want a quick fix without having to do any work. We have instant coffee and instant meals so they also want peace NOW, Mashiach NOW, to fix their problems NOW. This is Eisaviut (lentil soup NOW).
Sholomrov, if it is an aveira ben adam laMakom it is prohibited to advertise it. If it is an aveira ben adam l’chaveiro it is praiseworthy (Rambam, Hilchot Teshuva 2:5). IMHO this is because he must rectify the damage he did to his fellow whereas one cannot damage Hashem.
Avi KParticipantFlatbusher,
1. Every job has its temptations and every junior clerk has his little area of power.
2. Why should they just cater to the frum (whoever they are)? The general idea is to engage in tikkun olam. How an individual should do it is different for every individual depending on his strengths and weaknesses.
Joseph, I think that you are referring to the injunction (2:3) not to become known to the rulers because they will use you when it is to their advantage and not help you when you need them. However, that can be true of any senior position.
Avi KParticipantRav Lior quoted Rav Kook as saying that the Erev Rav are Jews who support our enemies. This would definitely fit the NK and their fellow travelers. According to Rav Yehuda Ben-Yishai they are those who doubt Hashem’s ability to bring about the Geula. There are also the Spies, whose sin the Gra (quoted in “Kol HaTor” and “Em HaBanim Semeicha”) says will infect many who who hold on to the Tora. They oppose yishuv EY – many times for “frum” reasons. See Baal HaTanya, Likutei Tora on parashat Shelach 38b:
??? ??? ?????? ???? ?????, ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????, ??? ???? ????? ?? “????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????”. “?? ???? ??? ??????, ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????. ??? ????? ??”? (???? ??, ?) ??? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????. ?????: ??? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??”. ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?’ ????? ?????, ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ????.
Avi KParticipantAvram, do the repair people accept pledges?
Avi KParticipantThe eruv rav is the rav hamachsir of the eruv.
Avi KParticipantDY,
1. I think that the whole article is pertinent. One of the questions we will be asked after 120 years is whether we understood devar betoch devar.
2. I have no idea what establishments exist in Boro Park nor do I particularly care. I was indeed referring to Moses Mendelssohn. I was using his quote (now now) to point out the obvious conclusion from your statement “the halachic discussion within really has nothing to do with current events”. Whether you embrace or reject his hashkafa is up to you.
November 29, 2015 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm in reply to: A promise for Shidduchim, Kids, Refous,Yeshous, etc. in exchange for learning #1114638Avi KParticipantSelling the sefer is a segula for parnassa.
Avi KParticipantDY,
1. If newcomers can be kept out because they might cause the authorities to expel the current residents kal v’chomer if they might kill people.
2. Who mentioned pizza? More reading comprehension issues. However, if you insist, there would be a nafka mina if the fear is that Syrian refugees might open a competing kosher pizza place.
Avi KParticipantAvi KParticipantDY, are you addressing me? If so you have a serious problem with reading comprehension. The title of this thread is “Banning Syrian Refugees From the US”. The title of the article is “THE REFUGEE CONTROVERSY AND ‘CHEZKAS YISHUV'”.
Avi KParticipantScared, that’s what Franklin said aboutthe Germans and Henry Adams ym’s said about the Jews. Here is a halachic article that I just received by e-mail:
THE REFUGEE CONTROVERSY AND ‘CHEZKAS YISHUV’
The right to inhabit a city.
Rabbi Micha Cohn
In recent weeks there have been ongoing debates between presidential candidates about immigration and the European refugee crisis. At the heart of these questions is how much are countries obligated to compromise their own security and economic system to help the less fortunate? In this article we will explore a pertinent rabbinic discussion from the Middle Ages called chezkas yishuv.
The Views of the Rosh & Maharik
The Maharik (See Rema CM 156) wrote that other Rishonim disagreed with the Rosh. They maintained that inhabitants of a city do have a chazaka on their town. This gives them a right to prevent others from moving there, especially if it will hurt their livelihood. According to this approach, the right to live in a city does belong to its inhabitants. As such, newcomers need the permission of the original inhabitants to move in.
Rabbeinu Tam writes that there was a cherem (excommunication) instituted in some communities against unwanted newcomers. The idea of the cherem was to circumvent the halachic question of chezkas yishuv. Even if the townspeople could not stop the newcomers from moving in, they could make a cherem on them to protect their source of livelihood. This means that the community members would prohibit anyone from doing business with the newcomers.
The Dispute Between the Maharik and Mabit
Communities also sought to protect their interests from newcomers by another indirect tactic. Newcomers needed permission from the local authorities to move in. The townspeople would convince the authorities not to give the newcomers a permit. The Maharik ruled that this is permissible (cited in Rema and Darchei Moshe ibid). He explained that since there was serious concern about the negative impact of newcomers, it is permissible to indirectly prevent them from moving in. The Maharik viewed causing the authorities not to issue a permit as only preventing the newcomers from getting a benefit, not as taking away something they already had. The Mabit (See Pischei Teshuva CM 156), however, disagreed. He maintained that even indirectly causing the newcomers to lose a legitimate right is not permissible.
Drawing Conclusions
We can glean from these discussions some important insights about some of the current issues. Does a country belong exclusively to its citizens? Possibly not. Should illegal immigrants be deported? Should a country refuse to take in refugees if they pose a security threat? These question could depend on how significant these risks are. If there is a real concern that the illegal immigrants are causing financial hardship to citizens or if the security risks are significant, one could consider them to be a rodef, a pursuer. Furthermore, there may be a difference between deporting individuals already in the country and not letting newcomers in. Otherwise, if they are willing to pay their fair share in taxes, we should welcome them and not behave like the selfish people of Sedom.
November 27, 2015 5:50 am at 5:50 am in reply to: Legal Studies Student – Aspiring for Lawyer #1113878Avi KParticipantCTLAWYER, not correct. Philosophy is a BA. Math and Eco can be either and the latter can also be a BBA. It depends on which core program one takes.
Popa, people who get that much to start are slaves to the billable hours regime. True, there are frum lawyers in these firms but they work motzaei Shabbat and Sun (in fact, when Nat Lewin told Justice Harlan about Shabbat before clerking him Harlan said “No problem. You’ll come in on Sun”). I knew someone who had a friend who left because he realized that he had no time to enjoy the salary and went to a government job. Much lower salary but 9-5. Today that would be an immense problem for someone who does not come from a well-to-fo family.
November 26, 2015 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm in reply to: Legal Studies Student – Aspiring for Lawyer #1113873Avi KParticipantCTLAWYER,
1. Just out of curiosity why not a BA?
2. You forgot to mention the insane law school tuitions.
November 26, 2015 5:54 am at 5:54 am in reply to: Legal Studies Student – Aspiring for Lawyer #1113868Avi KParticipantFrom what I understand law schools look down on Legal Studies degrees as they are considered soft. Top secular majors are Math (analytical skills), Economics and Philosophy. The main thong though is the LSAT and Gemara study along with courses in analytical reasoning would be very good.
Avi KParticipantFears were not limited to spies and revolutionaries. Several decades previously NYC Police Commissioner Theodore Bingham published an article in the North American Review entitled “Foreign Criminals in New York” in which he blamed Russian-born Jews for property crimes and Italian immigrants for violent crimes.
Avi KParticipant“We are in the hands of the Jews”, (Henry) Adams lamented. “They can do what they please with our values.” He advised against investment except in the form of gold locked in a safe deposit box. “There you have no risk but the burglar. In any other form you have the burglar, the Jew, the Czar, the socialist, and, above all, the total irremediable, radical rottenness of our whole social, industrial, financial and political system” – Saveth, Edward N. (1948). “Henry Adams Norman Ancestors.” In: American Historians and European Immigrants 1875-1925. New York: Columbia University Press, p. 74.
Avi KParticipantJoseph, as a matter of fact, in a typically daring Zionist operation Israeli commandos brought the last Jews home from Syria with the exception of a woman who converted to Islam and married an Arab (after the Brother Daniel case the Law of Return was amended to explicitly exclude someone who converted to another religion). As for non-Jewish Syrians, it might be feasible to take in some Druze under a family reunification plan (many are related to Golan Druze) given the fact that they keep the sheva mitzvot (the sheik of the Israeli segment officially accepted them in the name of the whole community and Rav Ovadia ruled that their religion is not avoda zara) and have an excellent loyalty record.
Avi KParticipantJoseph, at one time a Jewish stranger who had no place to go had no problem being invited for after the davening. In fact, homeowners argued over who would get the mitzva. There are still communities where people organize Shabbat meals for newcomers, soldiers (in Israel), etc.
Avi KParticipantThere is a machloket regarding whether or not mitzvot require kavana. The Halacha according to the Mishna Berura (60:10) is that if they are d’Oraita they require it but if they a d’rabbana they do not. Of course, if one refrained from doing an aveira without kavana that it is an aveira in the end one did not do it. There, however, is a very strong inyan to go beyond (Baba Metzia 30b). However, this is also part of the Halacha (Devarim 6,18 with Rashi and see He’emek Devar, Intro. to Sefer Bereisheet).
Avi KParticipantDY, according to what I read the vetting process is very extensive. Moreover, if America will go that way it will also have to ban all Moslem students and tourists (don’t forget, tourists sometimes overstay their visas). This would be blatantly unconstitutional. Regarding the attitude towards Jewish refugees (and immigrants in general) there were, in fact, not a few revolutionaries among them. Trotsky, in fact, lived in the Bronx for a number of years after fleeing the Czarist authorities. Emma Goldman also comes to mind. There were also Sacco and Vanzetti.
However, just as there were home-grown radicals (e.g. the IWW or “Wobblies”) then there are home-grown terrorists now. Some of the worst, do not come from Moslem backgrounds at all but have embraced an extremist world-view for personal psychological reasons (the Guardian has an article about this phenomenon along with a caveat). Western countries must be vigilant and use all of the intelligence means available to them but not repeat the tragic mistake of WW2 when Japanese-Americans were interned even though not one had been suspected as an individual of plotting an actual crime (interestingly, the only government official who opposed their internment was J. Edgar Hoover).
BTW, on this general subject there is a book called “Not Fit for Our Society: Immigration and Nativism in America”, which discusses non-welcomes that were given to huddled masses. Benjamin Franklin, for example, warned about German immigrants writing “Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.”
Avi KParticipantHealth,
Stop with your anti-Zionist lies! You are correct that the withdrawals from Gaza and southern Lebanon (FYI, we still control Yehuda v’Shomron – I am, in fact, writing these lines in this area) were wrong but that was due to the venality of certain “leaders” – with the acquiescence of the “Chareidi” parties. In an any case, there is a mitzva to defend Am Yisrael (Rambam, Hilchot Melachim 5:1).
Moreover, a person who accepts the benefits of citizenship, such as welfare payments, must also accept the obligations of citizenship. There might be room to defer someone who is truly learning (and not just listed) but at least he should say the “mishe berach” for the soldiers and give shiurim. Those who are cohanim can be meshuchei milchama.I refer you to Rav Eliezer Melamed’s essay “Judaism: The Mitzvah to Join the IDF”.
Avi KParticipant555, I was the equivalent of 4-F despite my protestations. However, I live on a yishuv in Yehuda v’Shomron so the Arabs thus consider me to be a soldier. Does that answer your question about messirut nefesh?
November 19, 2015 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1113015Avi KParticipantAssurnet,
1. So how did they stay religious? BTW, prejudice against less established Jews did not start in that period and unfortunately did not end. Sepharadim in America looked down on German Jews who in turn looked down on Russian Jews. To this day Ashkenazi Chareidi institutions have a numerus clausus for Sepharadim and bnei Eidot HaMizrach.
2. Not true. The French authorities instituted a program to secularize both Moslems and Jews. Being that they also repealed the dhimmi laws they were very successful with Jews (and to this day Jews in Morocco speak French as their first language) but less so with Moslems. On the subject of Sepharadim and Eidot HaMizrach in general, the rav of Tunisia, Rav Mosh Calfon HaCohen was a staunch supporter of the Zionist movement and the aliya from there was run by Rabbi Moshe Farjoun. Rav Kapach, who was the rav of the Yemenite community in EY, was also a staunch Zionist and, in fact, learned in Rav Kook’s yeshiva.
3. Israelis are not becoming religious because of disillusionment with Zionism but because they understand that it goes together with Judaism.
Avi KParticipant555,
1. WW2 survivors? Were they American soldiers? A smile can mean various things.
2. What Chareidim “targeted” by Zionists? As for a religious Jew in an IDF uniform, what can be better? Wearing the clothes of the paritz? There is an obligation to be in the army in a milchemet mitzva – and we are in an ongoing milchemet mitzva with breaks. We all want it to end but not by surrendering. THere is an obligation to conquer and settle EY – and that obviously pushes off pikuach nefesh (Minchat Chinuch Mitzva 604 section 4).
November 19, 2015 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1113009Avi KParticipantAssurnet, FYI already in Morocco their was massive secularization due to the influence of French culture (according to Rav Aviner this is why their rabbis banned marriages with converts – well-to-do Jews were pressuring them to “convert” French women with whom they fell in love). In fact, religious immigrants were sent to religious settlements as per the agreement between the Mizrahi and Mapai. I have known more than one personally. In any case, you are living in the past. Today, Israel is fast becoming more religious. If the religious parties could unite and present a comprehensive (as opposed to sectorial) program they would definitely form the government.
HaKatan, even if the Three Oaths once applied they no longer apply. I have proven this beyond the possibility of any contradiction many times here.
Avi KParticipantHaKatan,
1. Nonsense. You are motzi shem ra and hundreds of thousands of Jews.
2. The leaders of the Chareidim have repeated stated thatt hey do not want them to work. Not even to study a profession in a Chareidi college.
3. Zionism is the political movement for regaining Jewish sovereignty in EY.
4. More nonsense. In fact, living in Shmutz LaAretz is compared to idolatry (Ketubot 110b). Anti-Zionism today is a refusal to see Hashem’s hand in history. At best it is Aristotelian denial of Hashem’s intervention in the world. At worst Zoroastrianism (belief in two gods, a god of good and a god of evil).
November 19, 2015 6:07 am at 6:07 am in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1113004Avi KParticipantSam, do you wear tzitziot? That is also a mitzva kiumit (according to those opinions that there is such a thing. BTW, Rav Ovadia (Minchat Shmuel 14, p. 252 sof dibbur elkeh sheraiti) says that if it is an obligation and proves it from the fact that a spouse can compel another spouse to make aliya (Shulchan Aruch EH 75:3-4 – and see Pitchei Teshuva). Rav Avraham Shaprira says that there is no such thing as a mitzva kiumit. If you wear a four-cornered garment it must have tzitziot. If you live you must live in EY. Rav Eliezer Waldenberg (Responsa Tzitz Eliezer 7:48:12) also says that it is an obligatory mitzva in our time, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT WE HAVE A STATE.
November 18, 2015 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112997Avi KParticipant1. Israel does provide Tanachs to ulpan graduates, IDF inductees, etc. It is not the purview of the government to provide them generally. Certainly not the central government. Those who think so have been influenced by the socialists.
2. In Israel Jewish holidays and Shabbat are official days of rest (and most governmental offices are even closed duing Chol HaMoed), IDF kitchens are kosher (and during Pesach there are even signs that say “Do not bring chametz onto the base – that’s an order!”), during Sukkot officials welcome visitors in their sukkot, dairy companies advertise recipes for the Three Weeks, buses have stickers facing the front seats that say ???? ???? ????, etc., etc. When I worked for an insurance company in Tel Aviv someone who wanted to interpret a policy strictly was told not be like Bet Shammai butto be like Bet Hillel by someone who was not wearing a kippa. An apparently non-frum teacher, when told that she skipped a line in the textbook said that it did not matter as “??? ????? ?? ?????”.
3. The assertions of “shading up” and “idolatry” are so ridiculous that I really have to wonder about those who use such terms.
Avi KParticipant1. Bet Shammai and Bet Hillel argued for three years (Eruvin 13b).
2. I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! – Barry Goldwater
Avi KParticipantJoseph,
1. It is not charity but payment for services rendered. And as I previously posted, it must be spent on US-made goods.
2. Why are you defending an intermarried, assimilated Jew who coldly stated that it would be good for many Israeli soldiers to be killed so that Israel would be more “flexible”?
3. Under US tax law contributions can be made to charities, religious institutions, etc. in any non-hostile country so long as they go through an American institution that is recognized by the IRS for such purposes. Because there is a tax treaty between the US and Israel that allows it this is not necessary for Israeli charities. However, the same is true of Canadian and Mexican charities. See IRS Publication 526.
555, nothing could make Obama worse for Israel. Netanyahu had enough and went to those who are our proven friends
November 18, 2015 6:33 am at 6:33 am in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112992Avi KParticipantHealth, it’s better to be “shmaded up” in Yemen? In Israel, even those who do go OTD can come back and if not them their children or grandchildren. Not to mention doing things for Am Yisrael instead of some terror organization.
November 17, 2015 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112985Avi KParticipantRwndk1, going on shelichut is by definition temporary although unfortunately some are davka tempted to stay by offers of gigantic salaries (and marbitz Tora in the sense of beating it). It is the Tora version of being a diplomat and therefore is not really leaving EY. On the other hand, there are many opportunities to be marbitz Tora here.
Avi KParticipantJoseph, actually Pollard approached an Israeli intelligence operative and offered the info. I hate to burst your bubble but everybody spies on everybody.
In fact, shortly after Pollard was arrested Bill Casey was asked on “Meet the Press” if the US spied on its NATO allies. He responded “I hope so” – and thanks to Wikileaks we all now know that it does.
November 17, 2015 5:51 am at 5:51 am in reply to: DATI LEUMI AND CHAREDI- why is there such friction? #1112106Avi KParticipantModerator, who decides validity? What about the claim on another thread about Hesderniks going oTD?
I did not approve that other post but can look back at it. I am surprised you question my argument against an “all” statement, when even most “most” statements could be questioned for validity.
Avi KParticipantH is simply incorrect, especially regarding the Hesder system. The biggest threats to Chareidi society are poverty caused by men refusing to work and support their families as required by the ketubot they sign (and no, there is no responsibility to give large amounts to such people) and the anti-social behavior among youths who are not fit for full-time study but have no outlet. The latter was, in fact, the mistake made with Eisav (Rav Shimshon Rafael Hirsch, commentary to Bereisheet 25:27).
Avi KParticipantIsrael gives much more in intelligence sharing and preventing a terrorist state from being established. Not to mention the fact that all the “aid” is actually loan guarantees that lower interest rates (although Israel has never defaulted) and the monies must be spent on American products. As for Kissinger, he delayed the aid deliberately in order to extract concessions.
November 17, 2015 5:40 am at 5:40 am in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112981Avi KParticipantHealth, I do not know what are Hashem’s considerations when deciding who gets Olam HaBa. What about someone who thinks that it is better for Jews to besubject forced conversion to Islam as opposed to the chance that they will be be observant in EY (as are many Yemenites) and if not them their children or grandchildren? Does someone who echoes are worst enemies have a portion? What about someone who is motzi shem ra on an entire tzibbor in Am Yisrael?
November 16, 2015 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm in reply to: DATI LEUMI AND CHAREDI- why is there such friction? #1112100Avi KParticipantAmer, you are absolutely correct – but only regarding those who are really learning – and Rav Gustman said that in time of war that means that they sleep with their shoes on ready to go to the bet midrash at a moment’s notice like soldiers. This is only true of a small elite and everyone agrees that they should receive a deferment (although really they should also begin their learning with a declaration that in its merit the troops should be successful and also periodically give shiurim) . They must be encouraged to serve in the IDF and go to work.
edited for obvious reasons, lack of validity being one of them
November 16, 2015 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112968Avi KParticipantHealth, I know a (Chareidi) rav who said that he was told by an elderly woman that the Turks kept order by grabbing an Arab every Fri and hanging him next to Shaar Shechem as a warning. Do you really want us to do that?
555, the root of the problem is that when Jordan controlled Yehuda v’Shomron Hussein rewarded people he wanted to reward by giving them land. However, it was conditioned on them working it. Being that if they fell into disfavor he would take it away they did not bother but when the situation became frozen with the Six-Day War they remained the owners on paper – but the previous owners were also owners on paper. Being that the PA has decreed the death penalty on Arabs who sell real estate to Jews purchases must be made through intermediaries and straw companies – and usually the seller is someone who is emigrating. Thus it sometimes happens that when land is purchased another Arab pops up and claims that he is the true owner. The court then has to decide who is right. Sometimes they decide for the Jews, sometimes not – and the Arab who is declared the owner will obviously not sell even though for security reasons he will never be able to set foot on the property. In that case the cabinet ministers are, as we say here, caught between the hammer and the anvil. On the one hand, they cannot thumb their noses at the court because abandoning the rule of law will have disastrous effects both domestically and in foreign affairs. on the other hand, they do not want violent confrontations with yahoos. In this case, the best way out was achieved. The shul will not be destroyed, just moved. The new property is indisputably government-owned so their is no legal problem.
November 16, 2015 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112962Avi KParticipantAssurnet,
1. The caravan is temporary until a new shul can be built on government-owned land nearby (the land is now used as a playground). It is projected to take three months as the shul will not be destroyed by disassembled and reassembled.
2. All kinds of spins are floated in the Israeli press. Netanyahu woud have to be insane to unilaterally withdraw as the security situation will be completely untenable. Moreover, there is no way to expel and relocate several hundred thousand Jews either logistically or financially. Not to mention the fact that the Gush Katif expulsion, which involved 7,000, created a national trauma.
Health, the Gra says that the use of ??? regarding the curse that Yaakov feared if Yitzchak had discovered his ruse reflects three types of problems Am Yisrael from which Am Yisrael suffers:
???, who wanted to destroy the body,
???, who wanted to destroy the soul
????, who was sold by his brothers – and this is the hardest of all. These are those who join the ranks of our enemies, slander and attempt to delegitimize our state.
555, read Faaranak Margolese’s book “Off the Derech” and see who is to blame for OTDs who become anti-religious.
November 16, 2015 6:43 am at 6:43 am in reply to: DATI LEUMI AND CHAREDI- why is there such friction? #1112089Avi KParticipantHaKatan, I did not hear exactly what Rav Reisman said. However, it is correct that nothing has changed.They were not obligatory then and are not now. Anti-Zionism is idolatry as it denies Hashem’s hand in history and the great miracles He has given us. Someone who votes de facto accepts the state (and BTW, the then head of the Aguda in EY, Rav Yitzchak Meir Levin, signed the declaration of independence). Someone who holds public office declares it explicitly.
November 16, 2015 6:35 am at 6:35 am in reply to: DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE TO LIVE IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ? #1112957Avi KParticipantHaKatan and Health,
1. Forty years ago (after the great Zionist victory) a Jew could walk alone and unarmed in any Arab area because the Arabs, like almost everyone else in the world (and this is the fundamental problem the West has in dealing with ISIS) they thought that everyone thinks like them. They knew what they would do if the shoe was on the other foot c”v and they assumed that we would do the same so they feared Jews. If you want us to make them correct you are essentially saying that we should stop being Am Yisrael.
2. ISIS has nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. This is an anti-Semitic lie. They have stated time and again that they are still fighting the Crusades.
3. Many gedolim (e.g. the Netziv, Rav Kook, Rav Meir Simcha, Rav Soloveichik) supported Zionism. Rav Schachter was referring to individuals who have individual heterim. There are also good reasons to eat on Yom Kippur and drive on Shabbat but the default position of the Halacha is that both are prohibited.
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