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@Lightbrite
Regarding store made chopped/ground meat, etc. a couple of stories.
My mother told me that she never had hamburgers growing up. Her mother did not trust meat ground by the butcher…never mind what was already ground in the case, but even if you picked a piece of beef and asked that be ground fresh…………WHY? She didn’t trust the butchers to properly clean the grinders during the business day. Maybe they properly cleansed it at the end of the day’s business, but she was afraid of germs growing on the equipment during the workday.In 1972 I was at a local general supermarket buying a case of soda. A woman came in carrying a huge parcel wrapped in butcher paper. The manager asked her if there was a problem. The lady said’ I just bought this shell of beef and had your butcher cut it into 1″ steaks (FYI Shell steaks are treif sirloin). When I got home, I went to separate the steaks and wrap them for the freezer…I could see that the inner slices of the shell had spoiled, they were off color and stank.’ The manager gave her a refund for the 12 pounds of meat and she left the store. The store manager paged the meat department manager to the service desk. The meat man arrived, the store manager handed him the package and instructed the meat man to ‘grind this up with the next load of 90% lean ground beef.’
I never bought anything in this store again. The local chain went out of business about 1975.
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I am very careful about cleaning my meat grinders. The sink and dishwasher cycle is not sufficient, after cleansing with hot soapy water, I boil the metal parts, then run them through the dishwasher.@Coffee Addict
My parents and elder siblings moved from NYC to New Haven in 1952. The local Jewish community considered them NYers until their deaths. Only by their grandchildren’s generation was the family considered part of the local Jewish community. With a community dating back 175 years it’s not unusual to have 7th generation locals.I was born in New Haven to parents born and educated in NY…For almost 65 years, every time I open my mouth I am accused of being a NYer….
@LilmodUlelamaid
IIRC sometime in the past year I read Joseph posting that he taught history in the NY public schools
Now he posts that as a public employee he has accumulated so much time due him for personal days, etc. that he has time for kiruv.
There are some who have accused Joseph of being a troll, I have found from experience, that trolls trip up eventually and post conflicting information/hints about themselves.
I’m not saying he is a troll, but stories change on line to fit situations
@Lightbrite………..
our kids probably tasted raw chopped meat from about the age of 3, our grandchildren the same…@DovidBT
Avoiding bacteria………..
I buy primal cuts and butcher them myself under sanitary conditions and cold temperatures. I have never had a problem. I don’t buy prepackaged or store ground beef. I often buy from local farms and have a shochet who will slaughter on site. A non-Jewish neighbor takes the hind quarters. Mrs. CTL and I are old enough to have started our married life when one kashered meat at home (as opposed to buying factory processed and kashered meat) and don’t mind doing so with locally raised beef.@syaglchochma
There is a difference between being Chasidish and being a member of a Chasidic sect.I’m a misnagid, but say Ebesther, but I also say Tayrah
My mother OBM always tasted the meat mixture for hamburgers, meatballs and meat loaf and let us kids do so. She also was known to serve steak tartare as an appetizer on melba toast.
I still eat uncooked chopped meat.That said, we do NOT buy ground meat from the butcher, or kosher supermarket. We grind or chop all our meat at home in our kitchen. Different blends of cuts are used for different dishes, as well as different consistencies.
Our favorite mix of cuts for hamburgers is ground neck and skirt with about a 15% fat content, less fat dries out to quickly on the grill.
For meatloaf and meatballs we use a coarser grind of shoulder steak about 7-9% fat. More fat yields a slimy feel in the mouth when eating these items.Steak tartare is made with asst. cuts of chuck that are hand chopped in a wooden bowl with a hochmesser. It must have chew and bite to it. It is not a pate.
And as a reply to the OP, we never use ketchup in our mixes
@freddyfish
Talk about judgmental………………………Where is the halacha that religious Jews cannot be Zionists?
OOT, in small communities we leave politics out of our kids’ education.
“bottom line – can a seat be a particular someone’s to the point that they’re entitled to it”
Absolutely if the shul has sold it to the person. Ownership is more than entitlement
@Joseph…………………….
I remember these policies from when I was a child more than 55 years ago…………..
There are many congregants who have relatives that come for yuntif. I did not state they are coming 45 miles on Yuntif, they may be at the parents for Yuntif. My eldest brother and SIL live 16 miles away and my Eldest sister and BIL live 30 miles away. They will be here for the Yomin Noraim. Our shul also sells associate memberships for those who belong to instate shuls but visit often. It is a nominal fee of $150 per family.In many OOT Orthodox there are 3rd and 4th generation members who are not frum and do drive the 40 miles from their homes on Yuntif. They wish to spend Yuntif in the shul where they grew up, where Bubbe and Zaidy’s names are lit up on the Yarhzeit Board for Yom Kippur. They keep paying dues because they want to be buried along with their ancestors in the synagogue’s cemetery and plots are free to members and not sold to non-members.
Requiring the letter of good standing keeps Jews belonging to and supporting their local shul. This concept was taken in the 1960s from the Jewish Welfare Board which was the umbrella organization for JCCs in the USA. Your membership card from the New Haven JCC was honored at a JCC in Chicago, you were not subject to a guest fee to use the facilities.
College Students….as I said I grew up in New Haven, Yale Students (all males in those days) were more than welcome. They were considered a good catch for the local girls. Our Shammos married his eldest daughter to one, who went on to serve a lengthy term on The Federal Reserve.
As for Yeshiva Students…unmarried family members get tickets. I don’t live in an area where there are OOT Yeshiva Students who would be davening in a neighborhood shul and not at their Yeshiva.
The shuls who generated these policies during the baby boom, predate the MO nomenclature.
@iacisrmma
OOT, shuls are dependent on dues to maintain the buildings and staff year round. Therefore they do not as a rule sell tickets to anyone who lives within 50 miles. You get enough seats for yourself, spouse and unmarried children.
Visiting out of state relatives may receive tickets when they provide a letter fro their home shul that they are members in good standing with dues paid up to date. College students are welcomed at no charge, just asked to call in advance and be placed on the seating chart.@motcha11
While your shul may say no one should tell someone else that he is seated in someone else’s seat, I don’t believe that should apply to seats in shuls that are sold for major donations and have name plaques on them.
A visitor should not presume to seat at a seat with a nameplate unless directed there by the gabbai.When I was growing up in New Haven, it was common for families to belong to multiple shuls and pay dues to each and have permanently purchased seats. I remember on Yom Kippur my father would start the day with us boys at one shul and make the rounds of 3 or 4 shuls during the day, greeting friends and relatives. In each shul, the family seats would be open awaiting our arrival. He varied the order each year.
When my father was niftar in 1989, I received 3 nameplates in the mail from shuls where he had purchased a permanent seat.
I would expect that the man who travels and returns (as a pattern) is entitled to his seat. The newcomer has been ‘squatting’ but has no permanent claim on the seat.m
In my experience, most shuls that sell tickets offer seats first to the person who bought them the previous year.Our shul has brass nameplates on the seatbacks for those who have purchased permanent seats. We don’t sell tickets for the holidays, seats come with membership dues.
@Ramd0m3x
I make no secret of my Misnagid Litvak/German background. I am proud of my heritage.Why do I assume Joseph is Chadisish? From hundreds of posts he has made. His choice of words, attitudes and experiences…all point to him being Chasidish…and he has never contradicted my deduction. BUT, if he is feeling mischievous he might.
I always say that growing up and living OOT you have to get along with all Jews. There aren’t enough Frum Jews in most communities to have separate shuls and minyanim. This morning the man davening for the amud at Minyan davened Nusach Ari, tomorrow, I have yarhzeit and will daven for the amud using an old Tikun Meir, nusach ashkenaz. Not a problem
BD…………….
Joseph and I have an unspoken understanding. We are able to tell when the other is posting tongue in cheek.
When Joseph instigates, he is provoking thought and analysis on the part of CR readers.
I like to give him a little reality check from time to time,This interaction between a Hasid and a Misnagid of Litvak/German background is enjoyable to both of us.
I can tell you that if need be, Joseph will be there to cover one’s backside.@Joseph…………………
Shrink? I wrote physician
I was born in New Haven and have lived in CT for more than 60 years. My father left Brooklyn in 1946.
I don’t work in a gritty anything.You have claimed to teach in the NYC public schools, can you really get away posting during work hours? I’m self employed and my time is my own.
@770Chabad
An observation, not a put-down
I don’t care how good you think the Yiddish education is in Chabad schools. Your English education has been terrible. You are posting in an English forum and can’t spell, can’t write proper sentences and are all over the place.
I get asked to hire frum young women as secretarial and administrative staff (because Shabbos and Yuntif is no problem in our firm) but would never consider someone who exhibits the writing level such as you post.BTW, this goes for non-Jewish employees as well.
I spend about 30 minutes per day on the internet doing ‘fun’ things such as being in the coffee room.
It is not unproductive time. It permits stress relief and necessary diversion from business and family life. It was highly recommended by my physician as being equally important as my daily walk or swim.
Food for thought>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
In the past half century, the birth rate for frum Jews has increased and the birth rate for most secular Jews and non-Jews has decreased (USA).
Lower birth rate, fewer marriages in a community. Fewer marriages, fewer divorces. This doesn’t even deal with the non-religious (Jew and Gentile) living as partners without the benefit of marriage.
I don’t like Jelly……………..
so, I often ate Peanut Butter and Honey sandwiches as a child. Still love the combination, but more likely on a cracker than bread these dayshuju…………
There are those couples who enter marriage counseling because they are experiencing problems in their marriage. Counseling does not resolve the issues and they divorce.
Then there are those couples who reach the judge for dissolution of marriage….the end of the divorce process and are asked ‘did you undergo marriage counseling?’ If they answer no, they are sent to family relations in the courthouse to arrange for counseling and the divorce is put on hold.
I did not (nor did the speaker at the APA seminar) include this second type of couple in the observation.Competent family law attorneys will ask the prospective divorce client if they have gone to counseling with their spouse. If the prospective client is the one seeking the divorce, they are told to come back after counseling if they still want to start the process. If it is the spouse being sued for divorce, they are told that they will be required to undergo marriage counseling before a divorce is granted.
Anecdotal evidence from years in the courthouses, the vast majority of those sent by the judge to family relations to arrange counseling (instead of the divorce being granted) are those couple not represented by counsel.
CT procedure has a minimum 90 day period for a divorce. Those with less than $35,000 in assets, who have no children and don’t own real estate in an uncontested divorce can fast track to a 35 day divorce.If you have minor children and will have any type of custody or visitation after the divorce you are required to attend parenting classes.
@huju
Thank you for your kind words.There is an adage I learned in my Statistics class 50 years ago this semester:
Figures never lie, but Liars often figure…………………………………….
It is very easy to skew numbers to ;prove’ almost any theory.
Haimy…………………………
You post VERY FLAWED numbers
You quote Dr. Schecter about a divorce RATE of 10%
You then quote a statistic that 9% of those in NJ describe themselves as divorced.Divorce RATE and MARITAL STATUS are not the same thing.
I had a non-Jewish client get divorced on Thursday and married to the next spouse on Friday.
The divorce goes into the rate, but if asked to describe herself on either Thursday or Friday, she could have honestly answered married.
Once a divorced person marries again they no longer describe themselves as divorced, but have contributed to the divorce rate as a percentage of marriages that have been dissolved.As for why the divorce rate is increasing in the frum world? The frum world is often decades behind the non-frum world in many actions.
@thefrumguy
I write about basic legal issues in the CR. I don’t and can’t offer specific legal advice to non-clients. B”H I am nearing retirement from a long career and can afford to give advice of this nature without charge.
I am careful to state the rules vary by jurisdiction and that I only carry licenses in CT, MA and FL.In this thread, huju, points out the 30 requirement to put NYC on notice of intent to sue. That is exactly the type of jurisdictional difference I warn about.
I enjoy these discussions or I would not proffer experience in my profession.
@Geordie613 Thank you
@NevilleChaimBerlin There have been many scholarly studies about today’s youth and desire for instant gratification. I make no judgment when I point this out to Daddysgirl. My generation, baby boomers, grew up when news came in a daily newpaper or hourly newscast on the radio. Nightly network news on TV was only 15 minutes and stations signed off overnight.
As for technology, I learned computer programming back when computers used punchcards and have kept up.My advice to Daddysgirl was fatherly and said with love, she took it the right way and B”H will learn from it. Patience is acquired through the aging process and life experience.
Listen to poppa>>>>>>>>>>>>
You must learn patience, your generation expects instant gratification and you’ll not find it here.
Many members visit the CR daily, but we have lives and can’t answer on demand. We are not following on our smartphones and running to answer every ding. We have professional and business lives we live.I am not picking on you, BUT
Motzei Shabbos you posted a new thread addressing a question to me at 11:06 PM
You bumped the thread at 7:52 AM Sunday morning when I had not answered you.
Last night, Mrs. CTL and I were out visiting friends after Shabbos and I wouldn’t be on the CR at that time.
At 7:52 this morning I was still at minyan, it starts later on Sundays OOT.I came home saw your post and crafted an answer.
Learn patience
Read the CR once a day when you have time, do not let it become a diversion from study, work, familyLecture is over…daddy loves you
Daddy’s girl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
The first question that must be answered in both cases is:
What is the statute of limitations in the jurisdiction. That sets out the time limits for filing lawsuits after an incident. It varies by jurisdictions, and also may vary by type of lawsuit.
In some places it is two years, other states are three years. Please don’t ask for specific info on your state, as lawyers are not licensed country wide in the USA. I only maintain CT, MA and FL licenses at this point in my career. I can’t answer specific questions as you or the hurt person is not my client.The next question to ask is:
Who owns the property where the injury occurred?
For example, if the park is town owned, a suit can be filed against the town. If it was a state park, many states, including Connecticut, may not be sued without first gaining their permission, They have ‘sovereign immunity.’Just because someone is injured in a location, doesn’t mean the owner was negligent and that a lawsuit will be won.
This is why a consultation with an attorney (they generally don’t charge for this first meeting to evaluate whether there is a case to pursue) is important.
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Let’s talk about the fall on the ice,
The attorney will inquire whether there was a storm going on, or how long the fall occurred after the storm ended.
Some communities give property owners anywhere from 4-24 hours after the end of a storm to clear ice and snow. That may be daylight hours, so that if a storm ends at 2 AM the clock starts ticking at 8 AMDid the person that fell see the path was not cleared and entered anyway. If so, contributory negligence may be a factor and in some states could reduce or eliminate the award in court.
Did the person who fell notify the owner promptly?
So many questions?
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Basic answer, if you are within the statute of limitations and the entity is one that may be sued according to the law, you can sue. Will you win is quite a different question.@K-Cup
Yes, I’ve met many people who after being divorced wished that they had stayed married to their previous spouse.
Being in the family law business, my exposure to divorced people may be higher than the usual CR member, especially as many of my clients are not Jewish.
There are different categories of wishing they were still married to the former spouse:
#1 Spouse who did not seek the divorce>>>>forced out of the marriage
#2 The person left the marriage for another and the grass is not greener on the other side. The relationship breaks up once the married person is free. The ‘third wheel’ has a pattern of seeing married people because it doesn’t call for total commitment
#3 Still loves the ex-spouse>>>>pushed into divorce by meddling family, friends, therapist
#4 Misses the kids…visitation doesn’t cut it
#5 Poverty is now the state of living for the ex spouses and children. The same income can’t support two households
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Every year, I have a couple of clients who have been divorced, may have had another marriage and divorce, who end up remarrying their original spouse.Joseph………………..
More second marriages end in divorce than first marriages…………
Having seen that divorce ended an untenable marriage the first time and life goes on, people will end a bad second marriage more quickly than the firstIt is a requirement of the Family division of the Superior Court, not a state law that couples seeking a divorce go through marriage counseling. I have seen couples before the judge expecting their non-contested divorce to be granted, asked if they have gone through counseling and if not (to the satisfaction of the judge <testimony, letter from counselor, etc..) be sent to the mediation center to arrange counseling,
It has nothing to do with making the process more amicable. Some couples go through months or years of counseling before seeking a divorce and the process is still ruthless and bitter.
I had a client last year who had the marriage counselor release the records of counseling sessions to both attorneys. After the 3rd session, the counselor stated to the couple that the marriage should not be saved, additional sessions would be a waste of time and money and that divorce was the answer.
Also, I practice family law, which also includes wills, estates, trusts, adoptions, guardianships, conservatorships. I am not a ‘divorce lawyer’ per se.
@Golfer
two years ago I attended a symposium on the success of marriage counseling given by the local chapter of the American Psychological Association.
The subject of the success of marriage counseling was discussed in detail. The results presented by the panel of practicing CT marriage counselors mirrored my observation of couples going through the civil divorce process.
Few marriages are saved by marriage counseling. Once the marriage is so far broken/damaged that both members of the couple are willing, or court ordered to undergo marriage counseling, the marriage is not saved. The counselor often shows the couple why the marriage should be dissolved, often reinforcing the feelings of the party seeking the divorce.this is quite DIFFERENT from one partner seeking a therapists help in trying to improve the marriage. Individual, or even couples therapy may strengthen a weak marriage, but that is not the same as marriage counseling which does not deal with an individual’s underlying psychological state
Daddygirl………………..
Yes, Youngest Ms. CTL was married about 6 weeks ago. She and SIL are occupying MIL’s home in the compound as we had to move MIL in with us for additional care.
It is only 25′ between my home office door and her house.We do not expect them to live in that home permanently, but as SIL is both new to the family and the USA, it is a good place for adjustment. They expect to join the family firm in some capacity so I expect they’ll choose a home nearby or in commuting distance, figure out what they like, want and can afford and Mrs. CTL will put her designer/builder/realtor skills to work.
As much as we love them in the compound, we believe a bit of distance would be healthy
Joseph………………
I am honored that you picked this quotation out form my post ion another thread.Everyone should be aware that I am referring to counselling by a licensed therapist (social worker, psychologist, etc.) not a clergy member when making this observation. In fact, our court system which requires counseling prior to divorce lays out the categories of authorized counselors and does not include pastoral counseling.
My statement should not be taken to impugn the advice of a couple’s Rav, or possible success or failure in saving the marriage by that Rav.
@Shtika
I haven’t read 4 comments awaiting moderation………………………..
I am a family law attorney (I’m not looking for your business and don’t practice in NY or NJ)
Speaking from decades of experience, staying married for the sake of the children usually harms both parents and the children. Children above the age of about 4 know when their parents are not living in harmony. The kids end up walking on eggshells trying not to show favoritism and end up with many psychological problems.The fact that a spouse doesn’t want to go to marriage counseling doesn’t mean you shouldn’t seek a therapist to help you make the marriage work or make your exit as comfortable for the family as can be.
I can honestly say from experience, and I practice in a state that requires marriage counseling before a divorce can be granted, marriage counseling hastens divorce far more often than it saves a marriage.
@Daddy’s girl
No wonder you fit in so well.
Youngest CTL daughter was not allowed to drive until this morningI’m wondering who spiked the punch?
@DY
Mrs. CTL told your wife that it was not advisable for your daughter to swim only 5 minutes after eating BBQ and then spend 40 minutes jumping on the trampoline…………….
Forewarned eliminates the possibility of negligence, your daughter was under the DY family dominion and control.
I’ll be more than willing to pay for a bottle of Pepto Bismol id need be.Glad you all had a good time
@Joseph
You and the mispacha are welcome any time. More than enough room and food. We love your kids.Only one warning as you plan the coming year, we eat gebrokhts
Mrs. CTL and I would like to thank all of you who attended the gathering at the CTL compound on Labor Day…
A good time was had by all
We think that 4 or 5 shidduchim were madeNote to Joseph>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Your 8 year old daughter has been found living in our youngest daughter’s former upstairs bedroom. She has been enjoying trying on all the clothing and playing dressup. She has helped herself to meals from the fully stocked upstairs pantry. If the cleaning lady hadn’t gone upstairs to clean yesterday we might not have known for weeks that you left her behind.
She told Mrs. CTL that she is enjoying a week off from school and that it’s nice to have a room of her own, but she is starting to miss her brothers and sisters.
Not to worry, I have to be in NYC Sunday morning and will bring her back. She’s welcome to come and stay anytime (if you hand handle the idea of her being with misnagdim).30 years ago I had this discussion with a prominent local psychologist.
Many of our parents, born in the 19teens or 1920s suffered from survivor syndrome.
So many material possessions were lost/sold in order to survive the great depression in westen Europe or the Americas or lost to displacement by communists or nazis in Eastern Europe that newly acquired possessions were never discarded. Thus the overstuffed homes full of chatkzes and never getting rid of something made by a child or grandchild.
The current (post WWII) generations don’t know this type of total loss and are more able to discard material things, knowing they can buy as they wish. Even during the economic boom of WWII in the USA the people were limited to how much consumer goods could be purchased with ration coupons due to years of war production. If you couldn’t make do with what you had you could not just go into a store and buy new.Rats always abandon a sinking ship
Thank you Joseph………………………
The YW (and rest of the Frum world) must refocus on the fact that a chasunah is about the chasson and kallah and their parents and what they want. It is not about the bochurim, the vendors, etc.
We don’t tolerate bad behavior from our children and don’t have to tolerate defiance from our suppliers. If every Baal Hasimcha just started to put his foot down, things would start to get under control. Louder and excess does not mean better.
@iacisrmma
I must really travel in separate circles. In my 60+ years I’ve never seen anything served at the chasson’s tisch beyond cakes and ‘finger food’ type hors d’oeuvres, never something such as beef stew., fresh fruit and drinks.As I said we made 2 chasunahs in the past 16 moths and the food at the tisch and the food at the kallah’s reception was exactly the same: cakes. fresh fruit platters, hors d’oeuvres both hot and cold and drinks. Nothing that required a utensil bigger than a cake fork and could be eaten on a 5″ plate.
This food is not a meal.Caveat: we have never invited people just for kabbalos panim and Chupah, a guest is invited for the entire simcha. We also never have suffered univited guests/crashers….that’s part of living OOT (the ganz olim doesn’t just show up because they heard there’s a simcha and on the pretext of wishing a mazel tov they expect to eat and drink).
@bplady
Yes it takes action instead of talk to accomplish things.
Mrs. CTL is a designer/builder/Realtor She constantly is explaining to clients the problems of ‘hard’ rooms that have no carpet, no fabric on walls, no accoustical ceiling tile. Even if there are 20 people and 10 conversations going on (no music) the sounds bounce off the walls, floor and ceiling and attack you.I don’t care how many crystal chandeliers the wedding hall hangs, if they don’t spend on sound deadening materials guests cannot enjoy themselves.
When invited to simchas as such venues, we are apt to just mail our regrets and a check, rather than suffer all evening. B”H non of our relatives use these halls so we are not really obligated to attend when invited.FREE legal advice to baalei simcha. No contract as presented by a vendor has to be signed as is, you can negotiate every point. It’s your money and if it’s important to you, don’t be bullied by the vendor.
I have been on the board of various day schools and am a local elected official. The following is the Board of Education Homework Guidelines from their published policy. I have removed any mention of the town.
Guidelines by Grade Level
In establishing homework guidelines, it is important to consider the individual differences of
students and availability of resources. The following time allotments are a general guide and do
not include time recommended for “standing expectations” such as but not limited to silent
reading, practicing math facts, reviewing high frequency words, and practicing music skills.
Grades K – 5
Grades K-1 – Adjusted to the maturity and readiness of the child
Grade 2 – average 15 – 20 min per night
Grade 3 – average 25 – 30 min per night
Grade 4 – average 35 – 45 min per night
Grade 5 – average 45 – 55 min per night
No homework should be assigned at the elementary level on weekends and school vacations
other than, but not limited to, reinforcement work, and completion of weekly classroom
work.Grades 6 – 8
Grade 6 – average 60-70 min per night
Grade 7 – average 75-90 min per night
Grade 8 – average 90-120 min per night
Additional homework time may be needed depending on the rigor of courses in a student’s
program of studies.
Grades 9 – 12
2 – 3 hours per night
Additional homework time may be needed depending on the rigor and number of courses in
a student’s program of studies.As parents we never allowed our children to do homework after 10 PM. If it couldn’t be completed by that time a note was sent to the teacher that they were giving an unhealthy amount of homework and we wanted an immediate meeting with teacher and principal. This usually brought a major reduction in the amount of homework assigned.
@BaalBoose
I have never attended a chasunah where the women rec’d a different meal than the men. We travel in different circles.
I just made a chasunah the Sunday after Tisha B’Av and the menu was the same for all adult guests with the exception of my 2 adult nieces and a great niece who are vegetarian.
I would be very unhappy if while driving home from a chasunah my wife described the lavish meal she was served and I had only rec’d beef stew.
I constantly post that people should make a simcha according to their means. If they can only afford to serve everyone Beef Stew, then serve everyone beef stew. A host cannot create classes of people and serve inferior meals to some at an affair.@eman
As I stated not all municipalities have noise ordinances, so it doesn’t matter what level you record with an app.
#2 The guests have no standing, they did not hire the band. If they don’t like the noise level they are free to leave.The last 2 weddings we hosted were in the CTL Compound out of doors. The music is not held in by walls and ceilings and doesn’t seem as loud as in a confined place. The same volume settings in an amp have different effects on the audience depending on venue. The worst experiences I’ve ever had are at the basement wedding halls in Brooklyn, the assorted Ateres whatevers that have low ceilings and no sound deadening material on walls, floors, etc.
@Joseph
These obn oxiously loud band are caused by them wanting to be the star of the chasunah, not the Chassan and Kallah.
It is the baal hasimcha’s duty to set the rules and make the vendors adhere to them. This goes for the band, caterer, florist and so on.
It is the baal hasimchas money and he (and his wife) get to control things.
We are not doormats to be walked on by the paid helplesschumras…………..
not all municipalities has noise ordinances
I’ve been trying to get one passed in our town for 12 years with no luck. The best i could do is limit noise between 11 PM and 7 AM@Yehudayona
The baal hasimcha whose request the volume be lowered by the band is refused has a bad contract. Having married off two daughters in the past 16 months the contracts I signed had a clause added by me requiring the band to adjust volume as instructed by Mrs. CTL, the Kallah, Chason or me. I told the booking agent, either sign the contract and adhere to it or I’d spend my money elsewhere.
It is not the responsibility of the baal hasimcha to help the band get other buisiness.Personally, if a band leader ever refused to lower the volume at a simcha where I was paying the band, he’d be told he had 2 alternatives, lower the volume or pack up and leave with final payment (and be on the end of a lawsuit). The lawsuit being just a threat…a frum band leader would be taken to a beis din.
NO baal hasimcha or kallah should be intimidated by any wedding supplier, they work at our pleasure, they don’t run the show.