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Patur Aval Assur and Randomex walk into a bar.
(someone help me with a punchline)
So you are referring to where the insult was intended and purposeful, whereas I am not.
Ubiquitin, how do you define the word “intent”?
Here is how Wiktionary defines it:
Noun
intent (countable and uncountable, plural intents)
A purpose; something that is intended.
Am I missing anything, Randomex?
DY: That post was written before he saw your question.
What?
Randomex, DaasYochid meant “Why can’t popa and I [who are developmentally disabled/w-e] use ‘retarded’?.
DaasYochid: How disingenuous of you not to include the other Wiktionary definition for “polite society”, which Ubiquitin obviously intended:
That’s offensive. I was not being disingenuous. Retarded also has other definitions, and if you think someone has a right to be offended by retarded, they have the same right to be offended by polite society.
All I meant was what Randomex said.
Randmex took it out of context. You said there was intent to offend.
Your words, copied and pasted: “This whole discussion is about the use of the word “retarded” with offensive intent!”
That doesn’t answer my question.
DY. I didnt mean intend to offend developmentally delayed people.
What did you mean by “intend”?
When my moniker was used s a synonym for “retarded” as in any body who disagrees with that poster is “retarded (=) developmentally delayed, … (=) idiotic, (=) dolty, (=) ubiquitin-ey, (=) asinine, (=) insane,(=) bi-polar, (=)depressed, …” I was hurt .
That I understand.
It is not hard to understand why those with a condition are offended when their (or their family member’s) condition is used to insult others as a synonym for “idiotic.”
Maybe not, but it it is hard to understand how the term “retarded”, which been obsolete in that context for decades, would be offensive.
I dont think you get to decide what should and shouln’t offend a large number of people.
Why not? Why can’t I opine what is something which is silly to get offended by?
Wiktionary:
polite society (uncountable)
The elite or upper crust of society.
1803, Maria Edgeworth, “The Manufacturers”:
[H]e had been brought up in an extravagant family, who considered tradesmen and manufacturers as a caste disgraceful to polite society.
Popa, minor detail.
I honestly don’t think they’re reading the CR. Their families might be, but if they’re normal (i.e. not hypersensitive), they shouldn’t be offended, as catch yourself said.
I’m curious to know how many people who said they were offended have such family members, and how many just decided that people should be offended, and that this gives them the right to offend and insult those who disagree with them.
Also, ubiquitin, are you retracting your accusation that anyone here had “intent” to offend? Because now, it seems, you’re saying something different.
Why, Goq?
Not so terrible if you don’t eat it.
Shtuyot. I’ve never heard a man express anything of the sort.
The alta bochur in the gelilah thread. Maybe not pitied, but undervalued.
Other way around. Nothing is as unvalued as her role in marriage. If society valued her role in marriage, it wouldn’t leave her out in the cold like this.
I don’t know what you mean.
What do you say instead of ????? ?????? and ?????? ???? ???? Whatever it is, it won’t rhyme.
The people at popa’s work must be members of polite society.
Now that we’re talking about imperfect tranlations, I’ll point out that while useful, one should bear in mind that they are imperfect. If the English word were to be taken literally, mistakes would ensue. I assume popa’s rebbe and the talmidim understood this, but I have seen this occur.
For example, if using the term “minor”, one needs to understand that the halachic term “ketanah” or “katan” is not precisely defined as “minor”, because the parameters are different.
Is William James a group?
The slichos of the first night contain the words ?????? ????? and ??????, so it is not appropriate to say it in the morning.
The only heter I’ve heard for before chatzos, is because otherwise people wouldn’t come.
That is why DY’s comment is immaterial. In cases such as “retard growth “or flame retardent” there is no offensive intent so it is not offensive.
Nor is there any intent to offend in the way I have used it (and I assume the same with popa). So you’ve proven our point.
you can but it is considered offensive.
Offensive to whom?
Polite society has deemed the word not-refined/insensitive.
Polite society defined how, as people who don’t use the r word?
Why when learning Kesubas can I say “Me’anes” but not the English equivalant.
That is different. It is a tzniyus sensitivity which some have, but nobody thinks you’re insulting anyone.
Notasheep, I agree. There are those trying to claim it’s offensive and derogatory even when not used to refer to someone. This, I don’t get.
I think it is all about context. If I say that preservatives retard spoilage, am I being offensive? Is Chuck Schumer offensive?
I hear people of a certain group using an epithet all the time, and since they’re the ones using it, it’s not considered offensive.
So why can’t popa and I use the “R” word?
I doubt 51% think the “letter after q” word is offensive (unless you actually call someone that).
Ubiquitin, if I am offended by the word “ubiquitin”, will you stop using it?
I guess I’ve got to take the blame for this topic coming up again. I’m amazed that someone found it offensive in the context I used it. I used it to humorously describe some popa posts. Obviously popa wasn’t offended, so why should anyone else be? I would understand if I called poster x’s comment the “letter after q” word if poster x were offended, but this I don’t get. It’s ….
If only it were just about how it felt…
My butcher informed me many years ago that you should not mix ground liver and any other ground meat because it was kashered differently.
So what?
I meant keloiim not shatnez.
How is either related to mixing ground beef with ground fowl?
Thank you, PAA.
The HLM he refers to is not mitzvah related, it is sakanah related. He also says he is not being mechadesh it, he sources it in the Gemara. I don’t think you need to say that he exaggerated, I think this point is clear. It’s not in the category of shiurim, chatzizin, and mechitzin; it means we have a mesorah of the proper medical procedure which trumps contemporary science’s views, and he proves this from the sugya.
Even if we accept Sam’s premise that it’s an obvious exaggeration, at least we see where he’s coming from from his opening paragraph. Is there the same kind of “hint” in the other sources? If not, we must assume that at least those sources are literal.
Why is his comparison so far off? His point was that it wasn’t real achdus, it was a large group sharing a common emotional event.
Because Yankees fans care nothing about each other; they have a shared interest. Sports fandom is an aspect of human nature, competitiveness, channeled to shtusim vahavalim, in the form of vicariously feeling victorious when a random group of athletes defeats another random group of athletes. Yankees fans happen to root for the same random group of athletes.
The shared tefillos of klal Yisroel, however come from ahavas Yisroel, which despite often being buried too deeply under layers of disagreement and misunderstanding, emerges in an eis tzarah. It comes from genuine achdus.
Of course, one can choose to view our unity at that time as a product of competitiveness, and say that we wouldn’t be nearly as concerned about them had it not been “us” (Yidden) vs. “them” (Hamas).
That would be an extraordinarily cynical perspective, though, and I don’t think Suri Feldman or Caleb Jacoby would agree to it.
As for our deeply held beliefs, he’s not suggesting that you give them up.
I disagree. I think the manifestation of achdus described would require a change in hashkafah.
All he’s saying is that we should recognize and respect other opinions, even if we don’t hold of them ourselves. There are 70 different paths all leading to the same place. Let’s recognize the different opinions as the different paths.
And what if one’s hashkafos are that a particular different set of hashkafos are not valid? Is one required, for achdus, to change that hashkafah? Again, I assert that it’s not a reasonable or correct assertion.
What I see as a proper manifestation of achdus is showing mutual respect and love for each other as individuals, as fellow members of klal Yisroel.
Well, that also has a problem of geneiva
If you’re the butcher and you don’t disclose. Same with beef/chicken.
If you’re the cook, they’re both fine.
(That line was a joke.)
A plagiarized one.
?????? ????? ?? ???????.
Haga atzmicha. Are you allowed to mix filler into chopped meat? Are you allowed to make meat balls in tomato sauce?
“Classic” hot dogs are beef/chicken (or turkey).
All sausages have other ingredients.
Drinking a bottle of poison would do the trick as well.
DaMoshe,
1) An inconclusive study suggesting that there might be a small chance is not the same thing as a small chance, and we don’t know what the C”S would hold.
2) Why do insist that the C”S is the only acharon whose opinion counts?
Akuperma, the cow and chicken in question were not cross bred.
Fny, you may not be saying it, but are we forbidden to say that women are more sensitive, and that the reason the default is how it is is so that if there’s a no, the boy suffers it and not the girl?
As I recall, this protocol was the norm before we understood age gap (although it’s possible that the greater chance of a girl saying yes was already observed, just not understood).
??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????
:?”? ?”?
This time the rabbi’s right.
no
SSRI stands for “several seriously retarded items”.
In popa’s case, this is a compliment (we’re talking about popa’s witty posts).
I’ll look bl’n.
Interestingly, the C”S, you say, holds you can exaggerate to fight reform, yet doesn’t do so regarding metzitzah.
Yet, the others, who we don’t have any record of allowing exaggeration, are the ones say there are non-medicinal reasons, and you are postulating that they are exaggerating to fight reform.
I really think it’s far-fetched to take it at less than face value.
There’s always room for improvement.
I’m partial to the post before that one.
Anyhow, I though we were doing posts in which you conceded the value of CBT. If we’re doing stam popa marganisas, we can start with your profile and work our way through.
I think I was once on Country Yossi.
I don’t think those two things are mutually exclusive.
Oops, sorry for quoting your “chaspa”.
Actually, I would have quoted your marganisa, but I’m trying to stay away from trans-fats.
Haven’t we been through this before?