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Thanks for your response. If she cannot leave, then I call it being compelled, even if joining to begin with was her choice.
I don’t believe in hiring babysitters. If a kid is mature enough to leave the womb, he is mature enough to take care of himself.
Ruach hakodesh.
Apparently, popa has ruach hakodesh (what’s up with the posts coming up as -1 years ago and out of order?)
Anyhow, I do still agree with age gap, and it’s a good idea to break the herd mentality which is part of the problem. I just don’t think it’s okay to replace one too-unform mehalech with another.
We should index these classic threads, not just the altah bochur ones.
Takahmamash, if a girl joins sheirut leumi, can she leave when she wants?
Lior, about the same as getting married, apparently.
OK, here’s my version:
When our Yeshiva Bochur reaches the age of 21*
WE MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT SEND HIM TO YESHIVA IN ERETZ YISROEL
We will make our decision (with his input) based on the following reasons:
A) WE WILL NOT BE GUILTY OF GIVING BAD ADVICE TO HIM BECAUSE IT MIGHT BENEFIT SOMEONE ELSE. HE IS AN INDIVIDUAL, AND WE WILK TREAT HIM AS SUCH.
B) The 50 rabbanim who signed the kol koreh might be right that it’s a good idea in general, but they didn’t specifically address our son, who they never met.
C) He might need more time to learn without the ol haparnassah. He might OTOH need to be married to best benefit his ruchniyus. We will try to make whatever decision is best for him.
D) He might be mature enough to get married. He also might not, yet would benefit from a yeshiva E.Y.
E) He might or might not be the type of boy who is in danger of falling to the nisyonos of being 6,000 miles away. We will take this into consideration. (If he is, is he ready to get married?)
* and 17, and 18, and 19, and 20, and 22, etc.
Sam, many gezeiros of Chaza”l work that way. Why should I lose out on the mitzvah of shofar because someone may be maavir daled amos? (I’m not suggesting an actual gezeirah, just illustrating the concept.)
Lior,
1) Yes
2) Why don’t you first answer his question?
Oomis, it affects her husband as well.
See ?? ??? ??.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14054&st=&pgnum=365&hilite=
(end of ?”?)
Sam, not just the intentions of the women in this shul, also the intentions of all the women who will follow suit.
I agree with fny, but furthermore, the formula for shared visitation which seems most common to me (every other weekend, plus once during the week to the father, and split Yomim Tovim) already seems to me to taking into consideration the needs of the parents rather than just of the kids, so I think it would be detrimental to start making parental fault in the divorce another factor in custody arrangements.
Why would you be uncomfortable? Start by exploring that.
Syag, what would expect to find different in, or how would you read differently, an original paragraph vs. a copied one?
Lior, the fact that your answer was just the word yeshivish with the adjective modern attached tells me that you agree with me, and we are arguing semantics.
There’s no in between, because there’s a great deal of overlap.
So you know Syag to not be a charlatan or meshuggener but you have your doubts about me. But I suspect that the (one of many) reason(s) why you would suspect me of being a charlatan or a meshuggener is precisely because of techeiles(ology).
Wrong on both counts. If Syag (or for that matter you) would say she can tell a lot about me based on my techeiles, I would think she (or you) was badly mistaken, maybe even a fraud. (Or I would do mental gymnastics to figure out how I misunderstood the claim.)
Until that point, I think she (and you) are not.
I do not think graphology falls into the category of automatic fraud/meshuggener.
And Syag has enough credibility (and sanity) that even if most people who claim proficiency in graphology are lying, I would believe her. (I would probably believe you as well, but I’ve “known” Syag for longer, so I feel more confident, in her case, to apply my skill in coffeeroompostology). For the most part, though, I’m not making a distinction between you and her, I’m making the distinction between the types of claim.
I’m trying to be dan you l’kaf z’chus, but on the off chance that you are implying any sort of dishonesty on Syag’s part, I hereby strongly protest.
But that wasn’t what was being discussed; not actual, not theoretical.
Yes, it was theoretical, and the question wasn’t about forcing a woman to stay, it was about forcing the man to give the get (it was a given that the theoretical dayanim were strongly advising him to give it).
There’s more of a sevara to believe in graphology than techeilesology.
So if you told me you were a techeilesologist, I would think you were a hoax or a meshuggener.
If someone tells me they can tell a lot about a person from their handwriting, I would take it more seriously, especially if I knew the person not to be a charlatan or meshuggener.
The only two mentions of an actual dayan were mine and Ben-Levi’s. In my case, the dayan said if it were up to him, he would want the husband to give it, but couldn’t absolutely force him.
In Ben-Levi’s case, the dayan said there is no halachic requirement, but according to the way Ben-Levi said it, nor was there a recommendation against it.
Syag, what can you tell from PAA’s handwriting?
Even if Dean is right, that doesn’t disprove graphology, it just proves that many/most graphologists are hoaxes, but not that all are.
Yes, akuperma, that’s what I was saying, plus commenting that additionally, death due to violence is more common among males, and that this discrepancy doesn’t affect the demographics in the frum community.
My comment regarding your post was that Germany, China,and India were not included in the stats mentioned in the OP.
Lior, you and DY may be overestimating the times there is a ???? ?????
Regardless of whether it’s technically worthy of a psak of mitzvah l’garshah (and you are unfairly harping on a technicality which I admitted I was guessing about), it would still be the right thing in terms of Gan Eden, propriety, etc.
ZD, what are you referring to regarding a dayan?
Syag, would you say the same thing if you were asked to help someone else get a job?
Because we love Batman!
Akuperma, these are US census statistics.
Gefen, you are correct, and certainly this should be every yochid’s mental approach to their own situation.
When it comes to helping others, though, emunah and bitachon (as it relates to action or inaction) are misplaced. The statistics we hear and read tell us of a problem al pi teva which, as a society, can’t simply be ignored.
So when askanim such as SY Rechnitz and the folks at NASI bring this communal issue to the forefront, people’s reactions and “responses” dealing with their own personal situations are really separate issues that happen to have the word “shidduchim” in common.
Mazel Tov, may you have much nachas, and may many more simchas follow.
Lior, aside from my previous post (which I wrote before seeing yours), even if age gap is similar, our population growth rate is undoubtedly higher.
This statistic refers to the entire population 15 and above, whereas the shidduchim population referred to in the discussion of the shidduchim crisis is in a much narrower range.
The key to understanding the 86/100 number is that statistic which has a huge disparity between male and female widows. To whatever extent it reflects more deaths of males due to violence than to females, it would seemingly not apply to the frum population.
What’s the kashya? On them or on us?
1) The new ones are all built to code, and even the old ones are with the knowledge of the township, with the understanding that considering the high property taxes, it’s only fair to allow some rental income.
2) I think an emotionally stable person should be able to handle it.
3) No, I’m saying that you’re the one with the prejudice. V’day l’maven.
I wasn’t mixing nothing up.
Agreed!
Actually, I was asserting something, not proving it. But it should be self evident.
I find it difficult to drink from contacts.
Which is better than I, who still hasn’t noticed it.
And there you go again, mixing up proof and being right.
Also, I didn’t realize you were explaining popa’s reason, I thought you were agreeing.
Squeak, is the version with the Breslover scientist any better?
Well, if we don’t value a pleasant voice, why is there an “as if”? Or do you also think the rest of his list of qualifications aren’t maalos for a baal tefillah?
Also, the O”T is against being haughty about a nice voice, not against having one. Anyhow, a nice voice is good for nusach even without songs, so although I answered you l’shitascha, the raya doesn’t begin.
The M”B is against using niggun in a way which ruins the davening, not against its proper use. In fact the M”B is m’duyak that nigun is used for davening.
As the Briskers say, it doesn’t say in Shulchan Aruch that a baal tefillah has to have a nice voice, because if he doesn’t, then he’s not a baal tefillah.
Agav, when popa says he wants “chazzanus”, I assume he really means nusach. Maybe I’m wrong.
And for turning a leitzanus thread into a real one! (sorry I haven’t had time to follow the learning part)
Anyway, you could have said better:
That dochek may work for Yishtabach, but not for Baruch Sheomar.
London School of Jewish Song: Children of Silence. Not from the London with Neginah record, where they changed the lyrics; from a release of four songs, which , I think, was actually called Children of Silence.
I forget the name. It was about a lonely divorced guy who couldn’t find an apartment.
From Boruch Sheomar and Yishtabach?
Oh, so now you’re not limiting shirah to malachum, you’re limiting it to certain situations.
Goq, no, not a gas station.
PAA, see the ?????, specifically ???? ????.
Popa, remind me again, what did ??? ????? say by the ?? ????
No singing? Why not?
Not all seminaries, AFAIK. For example, some are run by women.
Yet, I still favor domestic as the default.