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Hey Moshe, if I were a motorotor I’d get dizzy pretty fast.
SoRight, if someone comes to you and cries that they are in trouble, you say, how do I know you’re telling me the truth? I don’t understand why you feel like you are fighting a holy war over here against a victim of that circumstance?
Yes, it says specificaly about a Busha that it clears the record better than anything. I just wonder what the ‘eraser’ looks like.
Wolf, save me a good place.
I’m talking about a Moredess. She gets a Get, just not a Kesuba.
Being that you mention that you have a daughter at home, you actually don’t want to work from home. Perhaps you can get yourself a private office someplace.
As someone else here pointed out, even if it is technically ok, we wouldn’t want to have our hands in Tuma. However, Parnassa is not something taken lightly, even in Halacha. Perhaps Chazal were refering to this case when they said Pshot Neveila Bashuk V’al Titztarech Labrios.
mdd, the entitlement that you are refering to is about getting a Kesuba for her Get.
I’m talking about being Machshil them with Arayos, as in Eishes Ish. I don’t think there is a Chiyuv of Tznius for it’s own merit. That has to do with Vehaya Machanecha Kadosh. Hirhur, though, probably is a problem.
I think that it might be Muttar if you stay within the boundaries of what is already considered normal and decent. By non Jews there is also an Issur of Lifnei Iver when we are talking about something that they are Mechuyav. The thing we have to know is are they Oiver on these things that are Parutz by them already.
Yeah, the book is about the 5, 6, or 10 most amazing Jews. Two of them are him and his wife. It is filled entirely with stupidity, like everything else they ever sent around. I only wonder if anyone educated ever converted without force or pressure.
Reb Moshe told a Rav that being Mattir a woman to her husband is as important as being Mattir Agunos.
Does a Cherem on a man actually ban his wife from Shul?
Isn’t he assur to her during his Cherim? That might be a good enough reason to ask for a Get.
I think most people do it, albeit subtly. Watch the eyes of a crowd when they are listening to a vivacious person relate a story in a very animated way. Their eyes open wide with his and their jaws drop when his does. Also, friends seem to pick up each other’s laugh.
In the link that huh? so kindly supplied, that was the case. My issues with that was that his Kasha on Reb Moshe is based on a his own brand new Pshat that he learned into the words of the Rambam. From the Gemara there is no basis for his explanation/Kasha. His own Heter is also a little puzzling. He wants to consider someone about to die as a Mechuyav Misa. How does that differ from someone that would without a doubt be killed by the enemy surrounding the village, where we aren’t allowed to give him up?
To add a little to the subject, the Gemara seems to say that the reason we would kill the fetus to save the mother is because it is not yet considered a full fledged person. The Rambam however, says that we kill it because it is Rodef. Rabbi Akiva Eigger asks this and says that although killing a fetus would not beget a Misas Beis Din, it is still a transgression of Retzicha. Therefore the Rambam says that we would kill it as a Rodef. Reb Moshe points out in another Teshuva that a Treifa has the same Halachic status as a fetus. Therefore in the case that was discussed then, the Baby A, who was definitely a Treifa, and a Rodef can be killed to spare the other one. Reb Moshe didn’t say this because, probably, in a different Teshuva, he answered the Rambam differently, that when they are co-existing side by side then neither is the Rodef. Whereas, however, it is still a fetus he is being the trouble maker. In the above link he seems to differentiate based on if it is depending on the other, and that makes it not be side by side.
When one dies, that can cause the other to die. Would he be called a Rodef by dying?
And how do you know that they have a Tzelem Elokim? It’s not even a definite fact that every Yid has one. Yes, it’s true that they are Hashem’s Maase Yadayim, but don’t stretch it.
Why do you feel that you have to find an excuse to behave appropriately? What’s wrong with the simple requirement of any human being to act like one?! The same reason you expect any non Jewish person not to spit you in the face or to cover his mouth when he sneezes or even not to steal, is the reason why you behave accordingly. The reason I stop by a red light is the same reason the guy on the opposite side does, not because of Dina Demalchusa – which doesn’t really apply here anyhow. That is what Reb Shlomo Zalman and the Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva were saying.
Being that this is a discussion of what factors are in play, and we are not trying to figure out the bottom line, we can go on. Fast, close the thread before someone has the chance to answer.
WIY, Where does the Pasuk refer to anyone but Klal Yisroel as His children?
Huh?, Huh?
Which one would be the Rodef?
Like Tosfos says, it takes alot for a whole paragraph to fall in. Most probably the other Nusach was changed to match the other Midrashim.
I had to write this, because there is no way to delete a double post.
If you think I wasn’t talking to you about disregarding Rashi based on your values, which is true, why do you respond to that?
The Gemara also has some differences in letters in the Torah. Did you ever see Rishonim saying it is wrong? We say it is different.
I’m aware of the fact that there was a different Seder Olam in France than the one in Bavel at the time of the Geonim. Somebody tried quoting Tosfos as saying that there are conflicting versions of it, and that is wrong. Personaly, I would give more validity to the one used by the Rishonim rather than something we came across, being that they edited out what they saw fit and we can assume that their Nusach was chosen and perfected by them.
Then there is the aspect of Hashgacha. Just as we say that Hashem is present in Beis Din, so too do we apply that to the Torah of the generations. We cannot disregard a Rashi no matter what. Chazal say that Hashem quotes the Chachamim, even though the reason for Machlokes is the lack of passing the Torah down. What caused it is one thing, but now it is Torah that is a product of Torah Lishma and is added to and a part of the ever growing tree of Torah. When Rishonim argue on Rashi they don’t say he is wrong, they use the term, it does not shine. We seldomely find ‘wrong’ in the Rishonim or Acharonim, even in the face of alot of proof.
So, while it is fine to point out that there are different Nuschaos, there is a way to approach that without saying that Rashi is wrong. Talking like that is what got you responses saying that you have no idea who Rashi was, which of course we don’t, and other derogatory statements (besides for your political leanings, which seems to be the worst sin). Our approach to Torah is not like a professor browsing ‘texts’. It’s our Torah and our lifeline and our connection to Hashem.
Tosfos says that the Seder Olam says that she was three. Tosfos actually goes ahead and says that it can’t even be a mistake in the text since the whole conversation there is explaining how we get age. He only says that there are other Midrashim that argue.
I don’t understand how you can say about something that Rashi brings and accepts, that it doesn’t make sense on the basis of your “advanced” moral standards. If only you would have been around in Rashi’s day you coulda taught him a thing or two.
Actually, Rashi had access to more Medrashim than we do. Keep in mind that many Sefarim were lost when they were burned in france. Also, Rashi didn’t depend on what was in his local library. He travelled alot. I found Rashi using a Russian word to explain a Pasuk, and Polish too. You can’t just dismiss a Rashi off hand, even if it doesn’t fit your fancy. Before wondering how Yitzchack was able to marry her, did you stop to think that no one in her family objected on the grounds of her age? They asked her and valued her position.
The Meinekes is probably her caretaker.
We must realize that although you can find that a Rishon wasn’t privy to certain information, like text or science, what he writes is Torah. In other words, when you find a piece written about the four elements, although these are not considered anymore to be the elementary basics of matter, we learn and revere what he writes. If a Tzadick were to pass a painting, and he would comment on it and point out rome great idea that we can learn from that piece of art, we listen to what he says, which is truth, but we don’t delve into that artwork. So the Rishonim utilize the current science for purposes of Torah, and we learn and internalize that Torah, because it is Torah Leshma and written with Ruach Hakodesh.
Tosfos says that the Medrashim argue on this. How to reconcile that with Eilu Va’eilu is a different topic. However, we don’t pick sides, we learn all of them because they are all Torah.
Yes, I understand that. I was talking about those who are to be found there today.
When the 4 captive rabbis where redeemed, there was obviously an already established Jewish community there in Spain, which would show that they got there before the end of the Geonim period. Although, the fact is that there aren’t any known Rabbanim before that time in any other land. This could be likened, however, to the situation in America, where the Torah came long after the Jewish communities.
As an interesting fact, I read in a Jacob Marcus book a letter that an Arab man wrote to his brother, in the time of the Amoraim, describing a boat ride. The captain was Jewish and on Shabbos he refused to control it. This Arab hung his sword over the captain’s head and threatened his head, but he ignored him and learned from a scroll. Then, when a storm came and became dangerous, the Jew said that now it is a matter of life and death and he may now control the skipper.
It seems from here that Yidden were all over the place at that time already. Also, you see how the Jew knew not to take an Arab seriously. Another thing I saw in this letter was his overblown description of the terrible events that happened then, and that you’ll never believe it had you not seen it yourself. I guess now is not the first time they’ve been feeding the media.
Along the lines of WIY, I’ve heard of such questions as isn’t this an unnecessary Ness. The thing is that the Menora is a unique Keli. The Gemara says that Hashem, who shone light on up for forty years, doesn’t need us to give him light. The purpose the Menora is to show that the Shechina is among us, by the daily Ness of the western candle not going out until the next day’s lighting. In the second Beis Hamikdash, this Ness did not take place, so obviously the lighting was sort of a Zecher of the Ahava that was shown to us.
At that point, where the Yidden were Moser Nefesh for the Mitzvos, Hashem decided to show us that same Ahava. That is the Menora in its real, original glory.
Ramchas, thank you. That is really good.
First read the online version of The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion. Why reproduce it here?
I think it’s the other way around: after the Girush, many Sefardim went to arab lands, perhaps including Persia.
Well we know that many Yidden were taken as slaves to Rome. Also, Rome had a system where it was not too difficult for slaves to become freed. We find in the Mishna references to a a Jewish community in Rome. As to the rest of Europe, it was all Roman Empire territory. Once Charlamagne ruled, he united all of Europe. Being that he was the best king that Europe saw down until our time (besides of course, King Christian of Denmark), it makes sense that the Jewish community expanded throughout Europe. But, admittedly, this last part is only speculative. Actually some families have a Mesora that they have been in Ashkenaz since Churban Bais Rishon.
What DovidM is saying is also at the root of certain behaviors that Yidden have that outsiders can’t stand. We act toward each other in a sort of sibling fashion and some people take it to the outside world, too. This is besides the cultural differences that we have.
This summer, after what I thought was a friendly chat with a shop owner, I realized that I was annoying him. When this situation repeated itself, I came to the conclusion that I was obviously getting too personal, something that would make sense with another Yid. It never occurred to me before, but I was forced to realize that I am part of a different culture and I still have more to learn about this country’s culture.
1- That’s interesting. I never heard that Torahs Kohanim is more Meduyak than Tosefta.
2- As to your second point, your point is true but the example is either a mistake or a typo. The Zohar Hakadosh says not to wear Teffilin, while without the Zohar Hakadosh we would probably be all wearing Teffilin on Chol Hamoed.
3- I wasn’t calling Torahs Nigle an offshoot. On the contrary, that leads you to the direct will of Hashem. I was refering to reasons given for Mitzvos. For example, if Shabbos is all about remembering the 7th day, why don’t we just eat a big cake shaped like a seven and then go to work?
P.S. When you want to write italics use
<em>and</em>In your second question, I’m not sure what you mean by the difference between Mirashei Aggada and Toras Kohanim. The differences I see are that Medrash is not necessarily written by Tanoim or even Amoraim; it depends on which Medrash. Also, Medrash is not as clear of mistakes as the other Seforim that were constantly learned. Lastly, we don’t Pasken from Aggada.
This last idea has a few parts to it. First of all, as I wrote earlier, we can’t act on what we see as the reason for a Mitzva, since we never can get to the bottom of it with Sevara. We were given the rules and ways to derive the proper Halacha from the Torah. In fact, as the Maharal writes, we go the opposite direction: First we figure out the Halacha, and from there we gain an insight into the reasons for the Mitzva.
Second of all, Aggadeta Gemaros aren’t sifted and ground by Chazal. Therefore, we can’t be sure we really know when and where to apply it.
There is of course the famous reason too, that often times it is not meant to taken literally.
Of course nothing takes away from a clear cut Gemara (usually). However, when something is not discussed in Bavli, we follow Yerushalmi. If it isn’t discussed there either, than we’d follow Medrash, too. The Rambam even Paskens sometimes like a Torahs Kohanim rather than a Gemara. The Or Hachaim explains that the Rambam held that the Amoraim didn’t have the whole Torahs Kohanim, and had they seen it, they too would have agreed.
One more thing. Let’s keep in mind that all Mitzvos have a reason in Sohd. Even when Reb Shimon argues with another Tanna in the Mishna, we don’t say that since Reb Shimon knew the ‘real’ meaning, we should listen to him. As mentioned above, the Halacha is known from the regular ways, the 13 methods. Reb Shimon Bar Yochai, who excelled in Sohd, was able to know the hidden meaning behind the Halacha. That means that ‘after class’ he would tell his students the hidden reason for the Halacha as he Paskened and the hidden reason for the Halacha as his friend Paskened.
Now we can get back to the issue at hand. If the Zohar Hakadosh differs from the Gemara, we obviously Pasken like the Gemara. The thing gets sticky when we have Rishonim that already Paskened a certain way and then the Zohar Hakadosh was found. The Metzaref Lechachma, by the Yashar MiCandia (or Canadia) – Reb Yosef Shalom Rofei (lived around 1550) – writes that when the Halacha is already established, we must follow the established Halacha. Otherwise, we listen to the Zohar Hakadosh. When the Zohar Hakadosh says directly to do or not to do something, that for us is not following Sevara. As to how Reb Shimon Bar Yochai was able to say what to do based on Sohd, it says about him, Bechal Besi Ne’eman Hu.
By today, it sort of breaks down to how Sohd oriented you are. Some people ignore any Zohar Hakadosh until some Posek will quote it. Others follow it with a similar approach as the Metzaref Lechachma. Those who relate more to Sohd will follow Sohd as much as possible. This is where the Teffilin on Chol Hamoed comes in. If not for the Zohar Hakadosh, the usual rules of Paskening would have everyone donning Teffilin on Chol Hamoed.
One more thing: Following Sohd is not totally like acting on an Aggadaic, philosophical, Drush, Psychological, sweet or simple reason. Sohd is an understanding of the ‘real’ reason. However, we still always keep in mind that the Mitzvos are much deeper than our understanding. Although all Torah Lishma is real of course, the other explanations are like offshoots of the main trunk, while the Sohd is the trunk. Therefore, those with a true understanding of the Sohd, can be Machria the Halacha toward the Sohd.
The Gemara doesn’t discuss it. What I was getting at in my unkempt posting was that it is not a matter of ‘Halacha’, only of effective Teffila. In that case, we look to those who know the ins and outs.
This is not the only issue pertaining to Teffila where we find this. The long Teshuva in the Chasam Sofer about the correct Nusach for us (Sefard or Asahkenaz) does not deal with Halacha per se. He only discusses the Tzinoros, the heavenly paths that each tribe has. The Ri Migash writes about adding parts into Teffilos, that it is not a problem, as long as you keep to the rules of Brachos: The end must match the beginning and the Sheim Umalchus etcetera. So there really is no Halachik (Nigla, solid and absolutely required) issue about the Nus’chaos. Therefore, the discussion is on the basis of what is correct to do.
I had another take on the difference between the two times that Moshe came: The first time, they took his word naturaly, like anyone in a dire situation that grabs onto any hope. Hakadosh Baruch Hu didn’t want our Emuna do be based on something like that. Therefore, he purposely sent Moshe at that time although he knew that it would backfire. This dashed all natural grasping-on-hair hopes. Now, Emuna was something to be learned and acquired. This Pshat can be read into the Pasuk as, and they didn’t listen to Moshe out of short breath and hard work [like last time].
People seem to appreciate it more when you say “It’s not about you, it’s just that my religion…”
Perhaps you might want to say, “It’s not about HATCHOO! you…”
twisted, most authorities agree that Sfard and Ashkenaz from Tanach are not Spain and Germany. The Abrabanel writes that when Sancheriv attacked Eretz Yisroel and took soldiers from many nations with him, he also took from Spain. He says that the Spanish king took some Yidden back home with him. Those Yidden helped settle the land and named their cities. Tuledo, which used to be called, Tulitula, was so called because of their Tilltul, their being tossed around.
Heter? Keep in mind that the Gemara does not discuss this. The Nosei Keilim agree that Bedieved it is alright not to hear it yourself. Some say to do like the Zohar Hakadosh that the Beis Yosef brings. The reason we don’t simply Pasken like a Zohar is the same reason we don’t Pasken like a Medrash: because it is not any different than a Braissa. Just because we know that a certain Tanna holds a certain way, doesn’t mean we hold that way. The reason we don’t Pasken out of Sohd, is because we can’t work from that angle. We can never be sure that our understanding is the final picture. Just like we can’t rule based on Rav Hirsh’s explanations, and even the Torah’s own explanations, because we never understand the whole thing, as it says, “Rechava Mitzvascha Me’od.” When it comes to a discussion of how to Daven that Hashem will listen (sounds like a good title for a book), there is no reason not to listen to those who have a better perspective.
The Ben Ish Chai writes in certain places that if the Rishonim would have seen the Arizal they would have said deferently. There are times when we use our understanding of Sohd to be Machria in Halacha. It gives us a perspective of where things stand. When there is a Machlokes Tannoim, we see often that it stems from Svara, even when they quote Pesukim there is a reason why this one wouldn’t derive it from here and that one from there.
You are right! He writes in Shulchan Aruch that you should hear it yourself. In fact, our Zohar Hakadosh only says that someone else shouldn’t hear it. The Be’er Hetev though, mentions that the Arizal didn’t raise his voice enough to hear it himself.
Itche, there is such a Gemara about Krias Shema, not Shmone Esrei. Are you trying to tell me that the Beis Yosef didn’t know Shulchan Aruch?!
WIY, you don’t leave a mess with the toys for your mother to clean up?
The differences in pronunciation do not come from ancient times. The differences are a direct influence of the vernacular. If you need proof, look at the languages they spoke. If it were an ancient difference, why do they speak Yiddish differently, too?
His point is that you should make sure that you are saying it with a Cholem, no matter how you pronounce your Cholem. There isn’t a dialect that says Chuhlem, to my knowledge.
Do you hold a Mazal Tov plaque when attending a Kiddush in a Shul?
The Bais Yosef quotes the Zohar Hakadosh that you shouldn’t even hear yourself during Shmone Esrei. You must however clearly move your lips. People don’t even realize that they aren’t moving their lips. The Gemara says that Tefilos aren’t answered because we don’t know how to Daven the Lachash.
Where did you get this idea of the major Hakpada on whether a person pronounced his nois clearly? Lich’ora, if someone knows that he is saying a Cholem and due to the sandwiching affect it doesn’t get its full oi, it shouldn’t be such a big deal. Even in Krias Shma the only examples the Gemara mentions are where it comes out like another word.
Maybe you can have a blinking icon showing if you are currently moderating.
On another note: don’t you think it’s time to make a Meleva Malka for the coffee room members? If anonymity is an issue we can all march in with bags on our heads. I mean, what are we gonna do when WIY becomes a Chassan, is he not going to invite his CR Chabura and Chavrusos?
In what sense are we the same that there has to be a discussion about how we are different. What’s the difference between a toothpick and a kangaroo?