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October 12, 2010 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm in reply to: Why do some wives (newlyweds) act like Mashgichim to their husbands? #701910
A wife should be submissive. Not IF “this” or “that” is the situation. But in all circumstances. See above.October 12, 2010 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm in reply to: Why do some wives (newlyweds) act like Mashgichim to their husbands? #701907
HaRav Avigdor Miller zt”l, in “Awake My Glory”:
There cannot be two kings. The marriage relationship is two-fold. 1) The wife is submissive. This is not only Jewish but natural. There can be no harmony when there are two commanders. Without this indispensable condition, the home is disordered. “Arrogance is unbecoming a woman” – Megillah 14B. For a man it is not an ornament, but for a woman it is as if she wore a mustache. 2) The second, but equally essential foundation: a man must always demonstrate respect for his wife. This is “the way of Jewish men that… honor and support their wives in truth” as stated in the Jewish marriage contract. “He honors her more than his own body” – Yevamos 62B, Bava Metzia 59A. He is the captain, but she is the First Mate whose counsel is respected. She cannot be made a doormat, she need not beg for money, she deserves some assistance in the house chores, and the husband sides with her against his kin. He must express frequent appreciation and give words of encouragement, and he should remember his wife from time to time with gifts, big or little. Husband and wife should always say “Please” and “Thank You” and never forget to be always polite to each other.October 12, 2010 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm in reply to: Why do some wives (newlyweds) act like Mashgichim to their husbands? #701901
apy, EVERY single future R”Y was in (and in fact remained in) a “growth stage”. And NO 22, 23 year old is a finished product.
My opinion is sodomy ought to be a capital offense. If you don’t enforce morality, you will have naked people roaming the street and you lose your footing to execute murderers.October 12, 2010 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm in reply to: Why do some wives (newlyweds) act like Mashgichim to their husbands? #701895
WHAT TO EXPECT OF YOUR HUSBAND
Please note: You are not going to marry Reb Chaim Shmuelevitz. You are going to marry a guy. He may be a Kollel guy, but a guy nonetheless. 22, 23 years old guys are not finished products. He will not talk, walk, think, or behave like Reb Chaim Shmuelevitz. He may come late to shachris. That is not a sign that he is “not cut out for Kollel”, nor is it a sign that he is a “faker”. Your Kollel husband may be a struggling human being just like you or anybody else. The Shiva yipol tzdik v’kam principal will apply to him to. Your job is to give this raw diamond the encouragement, support, and help him grow into the great person that he can be.
You are not his Mashgiach. You are his helper. There is no third role. It’s either “ezer” – a helper, or “kenegdo” – an opponent. You are one or the other. Guys need wives to help them grow, to get them through their struggles, to pick them up when they fall, to encourage them and believe in them. Not to be their mothers or mashgichim or supervisors.
If every yeshiva guy that came late to davening, or shmoozed with his chavrusa now and then in the middle of seder, or wasn’t the biggest masmid in the world was made to leave Yeshiva, you would have many of today’s Roshei Yeshiva, Rabbanim, Rebbeim, and Talmidei Chachamim, doing computers or something. You cannot predict the final outcome of a person based on a minute-to-minute assessment of how precise he is about being where hes supposed to be on time or the length of time he spends in Yeshiva without going to the coffee room.
There are other yardsticks, which are much more meaningful when judging the odds of a young man becoming great. These go more in the direction of the intensity of his thirst for learning, his desire to become great, his valuing of greatness and his commitment to pursue it. His values and dreams and desires are, at that point in his life, more telling than his attendance records.
Girls tend to assess their husbands in terms of discipline; the husbands assess themselves based on their growth, which may or may not be proportionate to their discipline.
And the husbands were taught all their life to assess themselves like that, because that is how their Rebbeim assessed them – in terms of potential and commitment and desire.
The goal of a Kolel man is to grow and become the biggest Talmid Chacham he can. Often, husbands and wives are not on the same page regarding what is considered vital to that endeavor, at least while someone is in his growing stages.
Girls often think that (a) their husbands are already complete products when they are just married and (b) they assess their husband’s value as a Ben Torah by their discipline, which is just one small ingredient in the recipe.
The first thing to know is, you are not marrying Reb Chaim Shmuelevitz. The second thing is, even Rebitzen Shmuelevitz didn’t marry Reb Chaim Shmuelevitz. It takes many many years to become R. Chaim Shmuelevitz. He struggled too. We all do.
Rav Hutner’s letter describing how it is sad that we don’t realize how much our Gedolim struggled to become Gedolim, and in how many battles the Yetzer Horah defeated the Chofetz chaim, for instance, before he became the Chofetz Chaim, also applies to young men in Kollel. Or, more accurately, young guys in Kollel.
One of the reasons for this disconnect between the girls’ ideas of what Bnei Torah should be versus the Bnei Torahs’ ideas, is that girls go to school where they have role models, and they tend to think that the boys’ role models are kind of male versions of their own. So for instance, they figure they know of a big rebitzen, and they figure a Rosh Yeshiva is a male version of their rebitzens. But it’s not so. The Rebitzen, no matter how old and wise and talented she is, received her formal Judaic training in high school and a year or 2 of seminary. Full time education for women does not go beyond that. And that is altogether not a problem – women have the responsibility of raising a family and learning is not their full time job. Fine. But we must understand that creating a role model for Yeshiva guys — a Rosh Yeshiva — takes years and years and years of hard work, in Yeshiva, going to Shiurim, learning b’chavrusa, full time, and more.
So when a girl is married to a guy with a few years Bais Medrash experience under his belt, she sometimes thinks that he’s already supposed to be a big role model, like her rebitzens. But it doesn’t work that way. The trajectory that guys follow to greatness is sooooo different than that of girls. And if you want to be able to understand where your guy is coming from, you need to know his path to growth.
Guys use completely different benchmarks of success and growth than girls do. And if you’re using a girls standards on a guy, its like measuring a liquid in inches or distance by the pound. Sadly so many guys are being labeled as “fakers” or “not cut out for learning” by their wives simply because they did not know how to assess what it takes to be “cut out for learning”.
The funny thing is this thread (a mere few hours old) is now the first result for searching for “davening with minyan” (see the link in the OP). I’ve seen Google index new CR threads literally minutes after it posted.
BTW, you can count the number of threads in each forum on the main page below the top 50 threads.
Having a beard is considered an honor (Shabbos 152a). There are many Shitos that hold having a beard is Halachicly obligatory. For a collection of advantages of having a beard from a Torah perspective, see Orchos Yoshor, by R. Chaim Kanievsky shlita, Ch. 5. There is also a Sefer called Hadras Panim Zokon that has a lot of information on this.
Trimming the beard is a Machlokes in the poskim. The Tzemach Tzadek and others prohibit even trimming it, but many others permit. There are Kabbalistic reasons for not trimming the beard at all.
Regarding Payos, there’s a machlokes if you can cut them, see Tiferes Yisroel (Makos 3:5) and R. Hillel Kalama (quoted in Shaul Sha’al 98) – who prohibit, and Chasam Sofer (OH 154) and others – who permit.
The Chasam Sofer (Haghos YD 181 quoted by his son Ksav Sofer) says that it is customary to let the payos grow long, down to the jaw. This is unnecessary, says the Chasam Sofer, but those who do it are considered holy.
The Arizal (quoted in Bais Lechem Yehuda YD 1818) says that the payos need not be longer than the bottom of the beard, and he would cut them when they reached there.
Maharasham, however says that he was told by R. Meir Promishlaner that he should never cut his payos, and it will be a segulah for Arichus Yomim.
Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Yevamos 12:18) says it is wrothwhile not to cut the payos at all, since the exact measure for the payos is uncertain.
Mishna Brura (251:2, Biur Halachah) says that at least the hair from the temple until the bottom of the ear should not be cut, because it is a possible issur d’oraysa.
In any case, it is true that the “shiur” of the payos being able to fit neatly behind the ears and then being cut as they protrude from below the earlobe has no Halachic validity. It is just a style by certain segments of Klal Yisroel. They are using the Halachic shiur of the Mishna Brura (until the bottom of the ears), and the rest of it is for no real Halachic reason.
As far as putting the payos behind the ears, that began as a way to avoid anti-semitism in Europe from goyim who would harrass Jews with long payos. Nowadays at least in Eretz Yisroel there’s totally no reason for it, and in fact Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita (Orchos Yoshor p.20) writes that it’s wrong, since it looks like youre embarrassed of the Mitvzah.
Sorry; but I know how to eat them.
I’m not entirely convinced this system works … but it is what it is.
That doesn’t mean we ought to propagate and continue doing things in such vain ways.
Lemme guess Dr. P. You were counting the posts and timed yours to hit the jackpot…
blinky – Where have you been for the past 2 years?? Take a peek at this entire thread…
I already explained the difference between the gemara and the SA. The SA is working with exactly the same thing we have, i.e. the gemara and the rishonim.
And what did the Gemorah have that we do not?
(Just as you explained why you wouldn’t argue against the Gemorah [although you astonishingly maintain you can argue against the Mishna and Gemorah!!] saying “I simply think it is unwise, very unwise, being that the amoraim knew a lot more than us, whether with regard to obscure braisos, or kabalos from their rabbeim since Moshe.”, the mechaber too knew a lot more than us, a better understanding of the mishna and gemorahs, and including a closer line of kabolos from rebbeim through Moshe Rabbeinu. — This point, again, being made running along your stated line of thinking.)
Running along the same lines, for the same reasons you wouldn’t do it, you shouldn’t against the Shulchan Aruch. Even working within your thinking here.
IOW, your logic to argue against the Shulchan Aruch works to allow you to argue against the Mishna and Gemorah.
What’s your proof you can’t argue on a Gemorah?
One can argue on the Shach.
One can argue on a Shach. But you or I are not the one who can argue on a Shach. The Shach says you can’t claim a Kim Li against a psak of the Shulchan Aruch. Who disagrees (with maare makom) with the Shach?
I don’t take exception to your point towards mbachur.
yitayningwut – I addressed that issue with you in June. I posted then:
The Gedolim in the days of the Shulchan Aruch and shortly thereafter have agreed to accept the psakim of the mechaber and the Rema as authoritative. The Shach writes that one cannot even claim “kim li” against a psak of the Shulchan Aruch. This is akin to accepting someone as your “Rebbi”, where you follow his psakim. This is the same thing that happened when, let’s say, Klal Yisroel decided that the period of Chazal has ended after the 7th generraiton of Amorayim (Mar Zutra, Mar bar Rav Ashi, etc), and nobody from here on in can add to the Gemora. There was no “halachah lmoshe misinai” that told us that the Gemora was sealed; it was the accepted reality told to us by our Gedolim. The same thing applies to accepting the Shulchan Aruch and Rema.
You responded then that your rav/rebbe “disagree”, but never explained on what authority they so disagree.
“Why the vesain tal u’mutar begins at a different date than it did in the nineteenth century.”
ICOT: That’s a calendar issue. The secular year has a leap year every 4 years, with the exception of every 100 years (i.e. 1800, 1900) which is not a leap year, with the exception of every 400 years (1600, 2000, 2400) which is a leap year. So every time a leap year is skipped on the 100th year, the date vesain tal u’mutar begins changes by a day.
I guess you might consider calendar issues a “scientific” matter in a certain sense.
When Rivka first saw Yitzchak, the pasuk says “She fell off the camel” (Bereishis 24:64). This means as soon as she spotted him she immediately slipped off the camel. The R’dak explain (in his commentary to the Torah) that on hearing he was Yitzchok she “dived for cover”. Due to her modesty and bashfulness, she hid herself from her choson rather than appear immediately before him face to face.
A further reason for slippling immediately off the camel is given by the Rambam. She had been riding the camels back with her legs apart in order to maintain a proper grip and ensure her safety. Now that she saw Yitzchok coming to her, she felt it would be distictly unrefined to remain in that position. She therefore slipped off the camel as quickly as possible.
Ayin hara refers to publicly flaunted wealth (see Bava Basra 2b), explicit national census, and even a public Divine revelation. The evil eye caused the loss of wealth, a national plague, and the breaking of the luchos, respectively. The second luchos, which were given privately, lasted, proving that nothing is better than tsnius (Rashi, Shemos 34:3).
Of course, the opposite of these traits are tsnius and chessed, respectively, factors in the test of Rivka that continue to be critical in choosing a wife today. And while the specifics of tsnius are undoubtedly affected, within certain bounds, by time and place (see Rambam Hil. Ishus 13:11 and Minchas Shlomo 91, 23), the concept, as well as its particular application to women (see Rashi Braishis 1:28 and 18:9), is as timeless and universal as the Torah itself.
(Rav Mordechai Willig)
2qwerty: That is already possible.
Under “FRESHNESS” on the main coffee room page, click whichever thread you wish where it says how many “minutes” or “hours” or “days” ago, and it will bring you to the last post of the thread.
Look at the “Yom Tov”, “Sukkos”, and “Pesach” sections of the Coffee Room for older threads with ideas for Chol Hamoed trips:
rebdoniel: On top of the screen (in the coffee room) it says “Welcome, rebdoniel | Log Out”. Click on “rebdoniel” (your screen name) and then click “EDIT” on the top right of the screen. You can then change your password.
Is there any way to view all threads not divided by section? Kind of like the main CR page but not limited to the top 40 (?!) threads.
I don’t believe so. Such a feature has previously been suggested. I agree it would be very useful. It should be very easy to implement too.
No Moq, you were unclear in earlier comments as to whose comments you were addressing.
And you are not disagreeing with me. I merely related the Chazon Ish. Any disagreement you have, take up with the CI.
The quote was made by Harav Avraham Horowitz zt”l in his Sefer. It would be irresponsible to not quote it.
My dear and beloved brother Moq, I did not cite the gemorah in Taanis. Another poster did, and you are conflating me with him.
Yesterday when I made my brief comment citing the Chazon Ish, I did so from memory. When you (and later someone else as well) asked for my source, I spend a considerable amount of time to find it, as I had not recalled where I had seen it. Yes, it was written by the Chazon Ish’s close acquaintance, a Talmid Chochom and Tzadik in his own right, rather than by the CI himself. Its accuracy isn’t in question, the Orchos Rabbeinu is cited numerous times by later Torah authorities as a source for many issues. My apologies for having not been clear initially, relying on memory. But comparing it to an Artscroll biography comes from being influenced by the numerous anti-Torah blogs out there that don’t like them. (I’m still waiting for the comparisons to stoning by the Sanhedrin to the typical retorts about Ayatollahs, burqas, and the Taliban.)
Yes, the Court had authority to dish out appropriate punishment even if it wasn’t specifically written in a source that its a death penalty issue. That was my point. Nevertheless, they would not execute someone who ate a meat-and-cheese sandwich, even multiple times after being lashed. The punishment wouldn’t fit the crime.
Gross public indecency, says the Chazon Ish, is a crime fitting for execution. That means even wearing slacks outside, let alone the far worse crime of leaving ones legs uncovered at times in public, with a short skirt.
No, nobody here wants to execute the prutzas with the short skirts. Everyone wants them to do teshuva. Or at least start by not actually defending such abominable behavior. But pointing out that this kind of unrepentant public behavior is worthy of being stoned for, was not my thing. It is the Chazon Ish.
moq and mdd: The Chazon Ish was asked whether nowadays it is possible to consider slacks as not such a forbidden garment, since so many women wear them. To this the Chazon Ish responded that in spite it being worn by many, it is absolute pritzus to walk around in such a garment, adding that he was convinced if at the time of the Sanhedrin a woman would have appeared in public in slacks, she would have been brought to Beis Din and stoned for behaving with gross indecency. See Orchos Rabbeinu, Vol. One, page 226.
[The Orchos Rabbeinu was authored by Hagoan Harav Avraham Horowitz, chavrusa of and talmid muvhak of the Steipler Gaon as well as very close to the Chazon Ish. His father-in-law is Rav Chaim Yehuda Leib Auerbach, father of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach. Rav Avraham also authored the halachic seforim “Devar Halacha”.]
moq, the gemorahs you cited causing death for things like teaching a posuk wrong, are divine punishments. Here we are talking about punishment by the Court (Beis Din).
In the times of Chazal they would execute someone who continued to publicly dress non tznius after sufficient warning. (See the Chazon Ish for one example of a source.)
The requirements to give Tochachah are:
1) You have to first assess that there is at least a reasonable possibility of the person listening to you. (Sometimes there are Halachic ways of assessing this.)
2) You have to give the Tochachah in a non-aggressive manner, and never in front of people.
3)You have to make the person understand that the only reason you are giving him the Tochachah is because you care about him, and it is for his good, so that he can get Olam Habah.
It also says in Sefer HaChinuch perek 239 that you should give someone tochacha privately and in a nice way; but if they don’t listen to you, then you should embarrass them in public so that they will do teshuvah.
Again, to determine the issue whether a Jew may enter a mosque (which as you said earlier is the question at hand), it seems to me you must first determine whether Islam is considered avoda zora for a Jew. It is, as I sourced from the Ran, Tzitz Eliezer, Ritva, and Radbaz. And Rambam’s statement regarding it pertains how it applies to NON-JEWS insofar as the Sheva Mitzvos Bnei Noach are concerned in regards to idolatry. It is not only the majority opinion (that Islam is avoda zora to a Jew), but it is lchol hadeios. As far as the question as whether one may enter a mosque, offhand I am not aware of anyone who addressed that specific point other than the Tzitz Eliezer, who said it is assur. Are you aware of any other posek who directly addressed entering a mosque?
The question of whether a Jew may enter a mosque is dependent on the question if the practice is considered avoda zora for a Jew.
The Tzitz Eliezer (14:91), who quotes the Ran in Sanhedrin (61b) who says that the worship conducted by Muslims can be characterized as avodah zarah, is NOT a daas yochid. See also the Ritva in Pesachim (25b sv mah rotzeach) who says that while Muslims are not ovdei avodah zarah, Islam is considered avodah zarah for Jews. The Radbaz writes similarly in a responsum (4:1163).
The Rambam said that Islam is not avodah zarah and its adherents are not ovdei avodah zarah. But that pertains to non-Jews, not Jews.
Your welcome. Two points to keep in mind are a. you still need to login as ketzies, although your posts will show up as commonsense and b. all your old posts in the CR now show your posts under your new screen name – yet other posters may have referred to you as ketzies in their responses to you – making it slightly tricky for someone reading the conversation now to understand who they are talking to.
Out of curiosity, what business did you have in a mosque that you asked a posek a shaila if you may enter?
The Tziz Eliezer Vol 14 Siman 91 deals with permissibility of visiting a mosque. He quotes the Ran in Sanhedrin (daf 61) who writes “and the crazy one of the Yishmaelim, even though they don’t mistakenly call him a God, since they bow down to him in the manner of bowing to a God, it is to be considered as Avoda Zarah, and all the laws and prohibitions of Avoda Zarah pertain to it. For they don’t bow down out of respect to the dead, rather as in the manner of worshiping a God”. The Tziz Eliezer on the basis of this Ran, concludes that one shouldn’t enter or visit a Mosque.
Kesiva V’Chasima Tov and a gut gebencht yur to gantz Klal Yisroel!
I would like to ask Art mechila for cheppening him about having a private swimming pool.
Looks like ketzies got some commonsense. 🙂
“Ok you dated 1.5 years. Mthats not the norm for most circles.”
Promiscuity before marriage is much further from the norm than the above.September 7, 2010 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm in reply to: Funny Shidduch Questions Asked About a Boy/Girl/Family #914055
theprof1 “The shadchan was not very thrilled.”
Rightfully so. Fahering is the correct way.
Moq, you’re a year late, and a bit short… see:
WIY, I’m trying to keep my appetite. Can you describe this thing after I had dinner?
Jews actually eat that stuff?
What if I’m not in Brooklyn? Isn’t anyone gonna tell me what sushi is all about?
blinky, Nope. Keep hearing about it lately. Never heard of it when I was growing up.
What is sushi?
Did the schools open yet? Let us know a week or so after Yom Tov if anyone still doesn’t have a place.
What I find remarkable about all the tutition crisis, from both the parents and schools perspective, is yes their is a lot of financial pressure and all on parents, schools, and teachers, but at the end of the day no kid is without a frum school.
Even when you hear of schools closing down, or almost closing down, at the end of the day “somehow” they stay open. And if they wouldn’t, every child would be placed somewhere, at worst a week or so late. It never transpired otherwise (on a school wide basis) AFAIK.
SJS, mdd’s above description of a prutza from the Rishonim and Achronim is more accurate than your googling. A woman who goes around with her arms or legs showing is a prutza.