MTAB

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  • in reply to: Refusing to take a get. #1498095

    MTAB
    Participant

    joseph, you making all the right points but they aren’t going to listen. You are dealing with people who aren’t really frum. They don’t get the concept of Torah m’sinai and mesorah. They don’t get the concept of Hashem is One, which means no matter how things seem, it’s for the best. This includes the Halacha. They want the Halacha to match the modern world. And they have such a hatred for Charedim – in part due to some of the articles on this site – that they come to hate the Torah which the Charedim tend to keep with more faithfulness. Put your arguments out there. It’s a good deed. But it’s an enervating task for you I’m sure.

    in reply to: Refusing to take a get. #1497989

    MTAB
    Participant

    tell me fruminnj are the children her property? is his house her property, if you want to leave, then leave, but you want to kick him out like he is a piece of wood, does that strike you as fair, do you care? probably not, because you are not really interested in justice, you just want to do what you want to do

    in reply to: Refusing to take a get. #1493729

    MTAB
    Participant

    There are very few real agunos. Nearly every case of get refusal involves a woman tossing a man out of a house, denying visitation, harassing him with police, taking him to secular courts. This ‘crisis’ is a crisis of the RCA buying into feminism. The way the Torah works is marriage is forever except in extreme cases. Many times that’s challenging but such is life. These people just can’t deal with the Torah way. Most marriages can be made to work. But if you live for olam hazeh, it’s much more difficult.

    in reply to: Marriage? #1486743

    MTAB
    Participant

    It is interesting how many posts here are from working guys who can’t get a shiduch. It supports my argument that the boys don’t all have lists. Only the learners and those who pretend to be do. And the girls who are on wait list are there because they insist on the learning boy. It’s not because there are more women than men and not because there are more good women than men. The working boys get lost in the fray and not enough people are looking after them.


    MTAB
    Participant

    Command and us are broad terms.

    The mitzvos are on the Jewish people. He commanded us, the Jews.

    Why do you say bracha of lulav on chol moed? The torah didn’t command it? The rabbis did.

    The Torah didn’t command a bracha on water. The Rabbis did. We say commanded us.

    in reply to: President Donald Trump, Oheiv Yisroel Par Excellence #1485923

    MTAB
    Participant

    don’t confuse support of the traife medinah – the state of Israel – with loving jews

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1485892

    MTAB
    Participant

    the purpose of life isn’t learning, it’s serving Hashem
    just learn some each morning and night
    so don’t feel bad about yourself, this is a new thing this turning the Torah into one mitzvah
    there are 613 last time i checked
    and the purpose of all of them is emunah

    you only need one woman, she’s out there, get busy finding her

    in reply to: Why has the YWN gone PC? #1470451

    MTAB
    Participant

    midwest2, please don’t use the word troll. I’m so tired of that word which is used as a general insult of anybody with their own opinion.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1470083

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==Perhaps it’s time to close this thread. Schneubs has received answers and chizuk. We wouldn’t want things to degenerate into a squabble about dating and cause him to become jaded before he’s even started!==

    no squabble, i found the comment so abusive i just left it alone

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464304

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==I’ve never heard, been redt, or known that boys learn alone.==

    i’m not sure what you mean
    if a guy has a chavrusa one day , goes to a shiur one day a week, listens to a recording of a shiur one day, reads a book one day a week, he’s not learning alone

    i don’t if it’s good to only have chavrusos, that’s the blind leading the blind

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464290

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==Getting picked up? Hahahaha, I have to travel by bus. You wish I got picked up.
    Dinner? Even more of a joke. After we get engaged, you go out for dinner.==

    you live in Israel, right? it’s different there. in new York, the men are treated like dogs

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464241

    MTAB
    Participant

    One thing that really bothered me about shidichum was meeting women who had a long list of deal breakers about the shiduchim but didn’t do research beforehand. So for example, there were more than a few women – as noted here – who for some reason think Torah study must always involve a chavrusa. Me, I had one chavrusah, most nights I studied by myself, listen to recordings, different stuff. But to them, that’s like eating traife. I don’t know where they get this. But OK, that’s your thing. Then before the date, before I travel 3 hours, do some homework and list all your hakpados and if you must, nix the date. But don’t waste my time. I think they get so spoiled by the dating process, by getting picked up and taken out to dinner, they just take it all for granted.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464235

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==I live in Israel in a yeshivish american community. There’s plenty of the entitled spoiled brats, I’ve babysat tons, and there were plenty in my high school class too, but there’s also plenty of wonderful girls who grew up in regular home with not to little or too much and know how hard it is out there to make it.==

    As the Gemara says, Jews go to the stars or the dust (Megillah 17a). There are many nebach, selfish ones, and then there are more than a few really decent, sweet, idealistic ones. Many of the chassidick and yerushalmi young women are really special. Here’s how you tell the difference, the ones with problems stand in the middle of the sidewalk and yap loudly or type endlessly into their phones. The good ones are modest, let people walk by, aren’t loud, are busy with children. God bless them. They are wonderful souls.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464182

    MTAB
    Participant

    “For example, I own a 1997 Toyota Camry.
    As long as it’s clean and presentable,
    why shouldn’t I be able to date in it?”

    I won’t tell you that there aren’t many very spoiled girls out there who think they deserve the world. Sometimes their parents put that in their heads. I believe that in general dating today is one sided with the boys doing nearly all the work and the girls sitting around deciding who is good enough for them.

    But there are exceptions. There are still some nice girls who want a nice guy. That’s who you should look for and don’t get embittered by all the problematic people. One rav told me to be business like about shiduchim. Don’t get wrapped up emotionally in it.

    Certainly you can date in your car. But I do have a concern. Did you say you live out of town? That can be challenging especially for the guy who for mysterious reasons is expected to do all the traveling.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1464057

    MTAB
    Participant

    it all comes down to faith
    hashem will help you
    you just do the right thing
    all will be well

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463956

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==That’s one thing that seems to be better in some smaller, more OOT communities.==

    try the Midwest, people are so much nicer there and live much more simply
    Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, south bend, st louis

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463955

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==Most people I KNOW who are in kollel/looking for kollel, know what they are getting into.==

    they don’t know, they think it means an old car
    young people have no idea how expensive the world is today and the frum world 3x as much, part of the problem is that childhood is all school, so one has no sense how hard it is to earn money
    parents need to show kids the rent bill
    the tuition bill
    6 kids times $12,000 each for yeshivish school, $25,000 for modern, that’s $72,000 after tax, means you need 100k a year just to pay tuition

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463654

    MTAB
    Participant

    –Is there anyone who personally feels/felt the same way?–

    i’m about 40 years older than you so i can’t see i feel it now, but i believe there’s a tremendous problem in the yeshiva world today and that is an overemphasis on torah study. yeah, i said it. i have been involved in shiduchim and i do meet all kinds of girls who just insist on a kollel guy, that’s how they are trained, and when people say there are more girls than guys, what they are reflecting is that there are more girls who want kollel guys than guys who want to be that. of course, it’s easier to want it than to be it, plus the girls, who mostly want to live comfortably think the money will fall from the sky

    i do feel as a baal habayis that i’m looked down on by the learning community
    but i have learned to see that as their ignorance

    as for frustrations with learning, i have had that but found the solution was to try new approaches as i have mentioned

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463478

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==It actually is quite an old thing. The early chassidim de-emphasized learning, but limud HaTorah is at the core of Yiddishkeit.==

    i didn’t say it wasn’t core
    but the trend today is that it’s the only thing
    when i read the rishonim i heard all about character middos , mitzvos, humility ,etc
    that’s not how people talk today

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463350

    MTAB
    Participant

    you know what you need
    parnassah and marriage
    that’s enough to worry about for now
    you might find you’ll enjoy learning more once you do it in a new way
    you likely were just turned off by the style you were exposed to
    there are many ways of going about it

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463342

    MTAB
    Participant

    ==
    It’s so hard to speak to people about this.
    The yetzer hara tells you that somethings wrong with you.
    You must not have enough Yiras Hashem, or else you’d want to learn…==

    This equation of Judaism with learning is a new thing. Last time I checked there were 613 mitzvos. Sometimes I think this overemphasis on learning is a trick by the satan to get us to care much less about mitzvos.

    Once you are working with kids you won’t have much time for learning anyway.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463023

    MTAB
    Participant

    ” but no daily chavrusa for an hour learning at your own pace? Or shuir at night?”

    There’s no requirement to have a chavrusa. When I was dating I met all these girls who thought learning meant having a chavrusa. I don’t know where they get that. You can just study on your own, listen to recordings, whatever. It’s all good.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1463026

    MTAB
    Participant

    you haven’t started dating?
    time to start, then you’ll be able to answer your own questions

    in reply to: Is it tzniusdik–Mens’ edition #1462966

    MTAB
    Participant

    Of course men have a mitzvah to be tzinus. In Jerus there are signs about this. Tight pants are a big problem today.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1462965

    MTAB
    Participant

    There’s saving the world and saving yourself. The question is can you find yourself a nice girl even if there’s a heavy leaning in the frum world towards the kollel life, which is amazing since you need an income of around $100,000 just to get by today. I believe that generally when they talk about boys having lists its learning boys. And I imagine this is your fear. But I have to think that there are decent girls out there who have seen the family mortgage bill or rent check and say, wait a minute. We need parnassah. You just need to find one. Just one. Doesn’t matter right now what happens to all the other guys who want to be baal habatim. You can help them once you are married.

    You know who you are and your values are good. Just get out there and start looking. There’s a lot of hashgacha in these things. Have you started yet – shadchanim, friends, online, events? Do you have a dating resume? It helps people to remember you and to think they have enough info to take action.

    Sometimes the fear with the non-full-time learners is that they aren’t very frum. And oftentimes this is true. So let it be known that you are a stark baal habayis as you have done here.

    On the learning point, R’ Avigdor Miller suggests taking one small piece of Chumash, Mishnah, Gemara, whatever, and going over it many times. It’s like food where the taste comes out when you chew it. Today there’s such an emphasis on covering lots of ground that many people get lost. Also, many teachers overcomplicate the material in an attempt to either make it exciting or to show off. Says Rabbi Miller, they are destroying the boys! Study simply if you want. Also, are you comfortable with Hebrew? It might help to study the grammar, study it as a language. Also, study what interests you. Maybe there’s a topic, start with the topic rather than page 2 of Gemara x.

    Feel good about yourself. Our job in this life is Torah and commandments, serving Hashem. Koheles says – the sum of the matter is to fear God and to keep His commandments. He doesn’t say the sum of the matter is to learn Torah. Yes, Torah is a commandment too and we need to study to learn what to do. But a baal habayit is chashuv. So chashuv.

    in reply to: Working boys and shidduchim #1462902

    MTAB
    Participant


    Don’t worry, you’ll have no problems in shidduchim. The only problem you might have is picking from too many choices looking for you.”

    nice of you to encourage, but what’s that based on?

    in reply to: Does the state really support Torah? #1461621

    MTAB
    Participant

    “1. You are counting the Eastern European men who learned after work but not the Israelis who do. That is fake statistics.”

    not fake statistics. there were 4 million frum people back then, Israel has what 1.2 million, and we have so many diversions at night, particular the dati leumi world, the shuls are pretty much empty at night

    in reply to: Does the state really support Torah? #1461620

    MTAB
    Participant

    “Posting about the year 1700 in Eastery Europe, and when challenged relating a story from 1930s Lithuania is nonsense. You can’t extrapolate from Vilna in 1936 to a village in Galicia in 1700.”

    I made several points and that’s the one you comment on? Interesting.

    The main point is that in rural societies there isn’t much to do in Winter and after dark. Particularly back then, so they all went to the beis midrash. What we see from R’ Miller’s observation is how Torah was the national pastime back then, not soccer, not facebook .

    in reply to: Does the state really support Torah? #1461472

    MTAB
    Participant

    I’m going by what I head from Rabbi Miller. He said when he was in Lithuania before the war, most of the men weren’t working and they spent their days in the shteebel.

    To some extent we project backward on former times. We work 12 hours a day but today that’s in part because we are all urban. In agrarian times, worked stopped at sunset and there wasn’t much to do in the Winter. And there was no TV obviously, no internet or sports. No day trips in the car. There was nothing else to do but go to the beis midrash. There was much more torah study in those days than we think. We have this image that our ancestors were all amei haaretz and we are the big learners. I don’t think it’s correct. After the haskala there was a big problem and after the holocaust. but in 1700 it was a different story.

    in reply to: Republicans Support Israel; Democrats Do Not #1461431

    MTAB
    Participant

    Why does having equal sympathies mean someone doesn’t support Israel? And what does it mean to support Israel, to bow down and worship the government? Does the world have to approve of everything Israel does?

    in reply to: The Medina Shel Chesed #1461409

    MTAB
    Participant

    Freedom of religion, legal and police protection from violence, ability to earn a living.

    America does all of that. The biggest problem in America is the decadence but non-religious Jews are responsible for starting most of it – Hollywood, the 60s movement, feminism, television.

    in reply to: How Much Money Does the Israeli Government Give to Kollel Families? #1453191

    MTAB
    Participant

    By gov. figures, there are 141,000 yeshiva and kollel students in Israel. 16,000 are non-israeli

    Gov. gives about $2,000 a year to each one of the israelis and half that to non israelis

    from the article:
    “Kollel students receive an average of 2,000 shekels ($500) per month for committing to a full day of kollel study (from 9 a.m. to 1:30 p.m., and again from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m.). In its heyday, state support covered about half of this sum, with the rest being raised by the kollels’ directors, mainly from overseas donors.”

     

    This means that it’s a wash for the government. Their spend of $250 million is matched by overseas donations that pay for more than half of the kollel stipend and go into the economy. But a lot more goes into the economy because nobody lives on $2,000 a year in Israel. If each overseas student spends another $4,000 that’s another 64 million in the economy. Add to that visits by parents, funds for buildings – all of which go into the economy.

    And let us not forget that America gives Israel 3.9 billion a year.

    You want to know who pays for world torah study – america, not the state of israel. Israel profits from it.

     

    Links removed

    in reply to: Refusing to take a get. #1452783

    MTAB
    Participant

    because you could create mamzerim that way, the Torah says the husband has to give the get willingly, otherwise the get isn’t valid and they still are married, only in extreme cases can you force him and his not making enough money and the like isn’t a good enough reason

    let us spend our energies making marriages better and giving people right values for living


    MTAB
    Participant

    “It says “hevi Dan es kol hudum lchaf zechus” it doesn’t say anything about brother”

    it’s poshut, judge on the scale of merit means he has merits and you could judge him either way
    if he is not frum he doesn’t have merit

    we cut the non-frum way too much slack
    you want to keep shabbos, we’ll help you
    but if you don’t you have no credibility


    MTAB
    Participant

    <I was quoting Mtab that said the chardim are rude b>

    i did not say charedim are rude, i’m saying that chilonim are psychotic and some of that rubs off on some charedim, the culture is a crazy culture, zionism from the outset was intended to rid jews of torah, and the result of jews without torah is madness, so israel is a mad culture, so if you see charedim calling soldiers names that’s where it comes from, and also the society, which worships soldiers, is threatening to destroy charedi life with the draft


    MTAB
    Participant

    “”lol were you telling us before we need to Dan lchav zechus lol”

    don cchof zchus applies to proper frum jews. You don’t have to be dan l’chaf zchus on apikorsim. Brothers means brothers in mitzvos.


    MTAB
    Participant

    The Israeli army has always been designed to tear religion from Jews. It destroys people, particularly as its chief function has become to lock the Palestinians in a prison. It is the furthest thing from Judaism.


    MTAB
    Participant

    Folks, these are shomer mitzvos yidden and you have to be dan lchaf zchus, judge for the good. The problem is you are judging another culture. You sit in nice, polite America – the President aside – and judge them. But this is Israeli culture. If you think these guys are crude, you should see the chilonim. Israel has a very crude, rude culture. It’s not the fault of the Charedim. They get caught up in it even as they try to resist it.


    MTAB
    Participant

    here’s the solution – stop drafting them


    MTAB
    Participant

    “Many Chardim are calling names to soldiers and no one stands against them, Is most chardim okay with that”

    It’s not that common. I have seen enough soldiers in Charedi areas and nobody bothered them. The stories are grossly exaggerated.

    Most of the most famous stories are where police dressed as soldiers and tried to provoke trouble.

    in reply to: Bochur not getting dates #1442917

    MTAB
    Participant

    “And I learn only part-time.”

    I think it’s fine to learn only part-time if you are working on a parnassah the rest of the time. But we learn something very key from this, this notion that the boys all have lists and life is hard on the girls is a myth. It’s only certain full time learning boys that have the lists. The girls, no matter what they are doing with their lives, all expect to have a kollel guy. So we see that there are nice bochurim available for these girls and all the pity that is expended on them has gone to waste.

    in reply to: Bochur not getting dates #1442606

    MTAB
    Participant

    Look, the system is a mess regardless of what anyone tells you. It’s a mess in particular if you don’t fit the mold or have trouble pretending that you do – which is what most people who seem to fit it do. And there’s 100 ways of not fitting the mold.

    Allow me, who suffered through this, to make some suggestions.

    1) Be as frum as you can be. I’m not talking about driving yourself crazy or faking it. But come as close as you can to Hashem and mitzvos in a healthy way and look to Him for help with this. I have found that the more people are tied up in gentile culture, the more trouble they have getting married.
    2) Either work towards serious learning or serious parnassah with kovaya itim.
    3) Use all the matchmaking tools. There are singles events, websites, matchmakers, and connections.
    4) Create a dating resume and hand it out.
    5) Don’t take opportunities for granted. If you meet a decent girl, marry her. Don’t think somebody a little bit better is around the corrner.
    6) Don’t think you have forever. Get busy with this.

    in reply to: PSA About the Use of the Phrase “Trolling” 📢 #1442604

    MTAB
    Participant

    I understand your frustration with this. Most people use the word against anyone who says anything they disagree with. And it’s an insulting word. What’s a troll. It’s saying you are a wierd, icky creature because you disagree with me.

    in reply to: Bochur not getting dates #1441221

    MTAB
    Participant

    so much for the myth that the bochurim have lists

    in reply to: Who is the new leader of Klal Yisrael? #1441222

    MTAB
    Participant

    there doesn’t have to be one leader
    that’s a new concept

    in reply to: Explaining to girls that only boys light the Chanukah Menorah #1434284

    MTAB
    Participant

    IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NESHAMA (SOUL) OF A MAN VS. A WOMAN?

    Link Removed

    “In neshamos there is no difference. Hashem gives people different ways different opportunities to perfect their neshama. When a woman is married and she dedicates her life to others, she’s doing something that transforms her nature. It’s impossible for her to function successfully and to remain selfish.

    Her main achievement is transforming her neshama by doing chesed (kindness) to Hashem’s people for the sake of Heaven.

    She has all the functions of other people upon her. She has to carry children with in her, and then she has to nurse the child. She has to worry about children at night; sometimes they’re not well. She has to think about preparing food for everybody. Everything is for others.

    She does it selflessly like a busy Jewish mother usually does. It’s an extremely important achievement for her neshama, and she gains perfection in that way. We don’t expect her to devote hours to Torah learning. Her main achievement is transforming her neshama by doing chesed (kindness) to Hashem’s people for the sake of Heaven. (If it’s done properly, it’s not merely done like gentiles do, but it’s done with the intention of serving Hashem.)

    A man has other opportunities. A man is not limited; he doesn’t carry a child within himself. He doesn’t have to nurse babies. Nevertheless he has to do many things. He has to go out to the marketplace, make a living. And there are many nisyonos (tests) in making a living. All the laws of choshen mishpat (business dealings) apply when you have to compete with other people for parnassa (livelihood).

    Therefore a man gains his perfection other ways, and is expected also to give part of his efforts to learning Torah and doing more mitzvos than a woman is able to do because she is busy. Each one gains perfection in a different way. (#791, 10 Aspects of Shabbos)”

    in reply to: Explaining to girls that only boys light the Chanukah Menorah #1434279

    MTAB
    Participant

    “As was explained to me by my rebbeim over the years:
    Men generally require “action” in order to connect to Hashem, since men are action/goal-based beings. Women don’t need these activities to feel the connection to Hashem, since they are emotional beings, and can maintain a high-level emotional connection to Hashem without physical activity. Men can be considered somewhat lacking, since they require much effort to attain levels that women can very easily obtain.”

    I don’t know who your rebbeim are but they need to start using Torah sources for their explanations. This is apologetics. Maybe the women should be the rabbis if men are so lacking.

    Magen Avraham

    Shmuel 1:1 And Chana prayed upon her heart.

    Yalkut Shemoni: Why were women grouped with children and slaves concerning mitzvos? Because they have but one heart, as the verse says, “And Chana prayed upon her heart.”

    Ziies Ra’anan (the Magen Avraham): Women with children: The explanation concerns the positive time bound commandments. One heart: The yetzer tov does not dwell in them sufficiently. Therefore, if the positive time bound commandments were imposed upon them, it is likely that they would not do them.

    in reply to: Explaining to girls that only boys light the Chanukah Menorah #1434283

    MTAB
    Participant

    Q: If tzitizis and teffillin are so beneficial, why don’t women use them? And what do they have instead?
    A: The truth. is women do have it, because when men put tzitzis and tefillin, they’re not putting it on for themselves. That’s absolutely not true. Every father puts on tzitzis and tefllin for all of his children and for his wife, too. There’s no question that tzitzis and tefillin are the property of the Am Yisroel. But, more precisely, the family shares in all the mitzvos. So while he’s putting on tzitzis and tefillin in the shull, let’s say, and his wife is taking care of the children at home, somebody has to remain at home – he couldn’t go to the synagogue if she weren’t home. There’s no question that it’s her tzitzis and her tefillin. That’s the way to understand it. It’s silly otherwise! And when he comes to study Torah in the evening, who will babysit? And, therefore, she has one hundred percent partnership in all that the does.

    Q&A: Thursday Nights with Rabbi Miller, pp. 189-190.

    in reply to: Explaining to girls that only boys light the Chanukah Menorah #1434285

    MTAB
    Participant

    “The Gemara asks a question, if a blind man should wear tzitzis on his garment. He has a four corner garment, does he need tzitzis? Because it says uri’isem oso, ‘you should see it’ and a blind man cannot see it. So maybe it’s patur from tzitzis. So the Gemara says, no that’s no reason because sha’ani tzitzis sh’yeshnah b’riah etzel acharim (Menachos 43a) other people should see his tzitzis. So a blind man should wear tzitzis not really for himself, (but) for other people to see. Now that’s a remarkable thing we are hearing now. It means the tzitzis that you are wearing are not only for you to see, it’s for me to see too. So let’s say a woman thinks I’m not wearing tzitzis so it doesn’t apply. No it applies to her too. As she sees her boys going around with tzitzis she should see the tzitzis uri’isem oso, you should see the tzitzis uzachartem, ‘you should remember’. And oso doesn’t mean only tzitzis, oso means you see Hashem when you see the tzitzis.”

    R’ Avigdor Miller
    Lecture, “Forever and Ever” #952

    in reply to: Explaining to girls that only boys light the Chanukah Menorah #1434282

    MTAB
    Participant

    As we know, men are commanded to perform mitzvos asei she’haz’man grama, time-bound mitzvos. Women, on the other hand, are not required to perform these mitzvos. What is the reason for this difference? The answer is that women have other important obligations to tend to, which exempt her from these commandments. A woman must know that she is a briah shel chessed, she has been created for the purpose of performing chessed. Being a wife and mother is a very significant role, and it requires her to be selfless and totally dedicated to performing chessed! It takes a woman’s entire effort to succeed in being an efficient mother and wife. Investing her abilities in raising children is very time consuming but is a tremendous zechus for her! (Rabbi Avigdor Miller Speaks, p. 271

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