MTAB

Q: Where should one take a girl for a date?

A: I imagine he means for a shidduch. You don’t go for dates! For a shidduch. The best place that costs the least money is Grand Central Station. That’s not private, it’s a kosher place, and there’s no admission, it doesn’t cost anything (R’ Avigdor Miller, #486 in Q&A 2, p. 88)

“That’s a whole lot of whining.”

No, it’s a whole lot of good points. Put yourself in the boy’s shoes if you are capable of empathy.

Look at what I’m saying, the guy is doing everything. That is not good even for the date. It creates a situation where the girl is passive and passive people tend to be judgmental. They have nothing to do but judge. People need to be busy. Haimish dating leaves the girl with nothing to do but expect.

It’s amazing how everybody acknowledges the shidduch crisis but yet most are resistent to any changes in our methods, even though we picked up half of them from the goyim.

“But that’s ok- because for the rest of the guy’s life, his wife will be cooking for him, cleaning up after him, picking up his socks from the floor, and maybe she is even working to support him in learning, etc etc. But she is willing to do all that because she knows that he cares about her and is sensitive to her needs.”

And he supports her and hires cleaning ladies for her. You are implying that the woman has the harder job during marriage. And this depends very much on the marriage. I think we need to try and make things as fair as possible at each stage.

“You know what’s wrong with shidduchim (and marriages)? The fact that some guys think buying a girl a soda from Duane Reade and asking her if she would prefer to do something else instead of walking is considered “babying”.”

you are looking for an argument, listen to what i am saying, the girls comment showed interest only in these matters, i’m not saying he shouldn’t be a mentch and you know it, but the whole date shouldn’t be about did he do this or that

“Winnie, how can the guy judge whether the girl is sensitive to his needs?

They don’t care about that. The assumption is that all girls are angels and totally giving. Of course we see from many marriages that such is not the case at all. And can we blame the selfish ones. They were never taught to be giving.

“It’s called having basic derech eretz for someone you might be spending the rest of your life with BUDDY!!!!!!!!!”

Yes, he should have derech eretz but he need to treat her like the queen of England. And should her main concerns be with all these minor comfort details? Because that’s what we saw in the comment in question. And by the way, the woman needs derech eretz too.

e120 writes “I’m female and in shidduchim. I’ve been on a walk as a first date and was fine with it, but here are some tips:
1. Don’t go if it’s very cold.
2. If you want to go on a walk, tell her that’s the plan before the date so she knows to wear flats instead of heels.
3. Check in the day of the date to make sure she’s still ok with it—like “funnybone” says, she may have had a long day and be too tired.
4. Always offer to stop and buy a drink. You can go into a Duane Reade and buy a soda/water/seltzer. It only takes a few minutes and shows you’re aware of the fact that she’s probably thirsty after walking for a while.”

This is what’s wrong with shiduchim. All this babying of the woman. How is the guy supposed to function when he’s all caught up with making sure you are perfectly comfortable and you judge the date on how perfectly comfortable he made you?

much better than a restaurant which is costly and awkward. walking you can speak more easily and get a sense of how the person handles him/herself, also you see things that spark conversation

of course they go OTD. Their whole training in judaism is honey bread and dancing. then life starts and the real demands of religion seem like a drag to them. they are not taught any yiras shemayim. plus they are fed all this nonsense about how unfair the religion is to women. They are not taught faith in the torah way.

Israel was not given the Law so that it might win political independence and national prosperity; rather, Israel was given political independence and national prosperity so that it might be able to observe the Law. תורה, the Law, remains the eternal, unchanging goal, the purpose of the national existence of the Jew. This purpose does not vary with the degree of independence or prosperity that the Jewish nation enjoys at any given time. Freedom makes it easier for Israel to observe the Law; prosperity enables the people of Israel to accomplish its mission more fully. Political pressure will make observance of the Law more difficult, and lack of independence will leave the fulfillment of Israel’s mission incomplete. But all of Israel’s apparent fate signifies only a greater or smaller allotment of means for accomplishing the mission assigned to it by the Law of God. Israel’s mission as such remains unchanged, and hence also remains the one unchanging bond that unites the larger Kehillath Ya’akov as a whole, as well as each small Kehillah that exists only as a daughter branch of the great, total Kehillah.

Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch “The Kehillah,” Collected Writings, Vol. VI, pp. 64-5

Tom Dick n Harry Get volume III of the bio on the brikser rav, chapter The Zionist Dream and It’s Demise. Read that and see what the great gadolim like the Brisker RAv, the Chazon Ish, R’ Chaim Ozer, The Chofetz Chaim said about zionism. We have all been duped and forgotten what they warned us about.

Read what R’ Avigdor Miller said about it. He said it is more pernicious than the haskalah. Remember that the haskalah sucked in 90% of Jewry. Zionism is coming to take the rest.

Phil writes “Yet MTAB and his ilk defend them and blame Israel.” I love that word ‘ilk’. Whenever I see that I realize I’m dealing with somebody who cannot discuss issues. Anybody who disagrees is just bad.

I’m afraid this matter isn’t binary Mr. Phil. There are nuances. If u continue to think in a binary fashion jews are always good, arabs are always bad, then you’ll live forever in a state of war.

I don’t even know what you mean by ‘defends them’ meaning hamas. Did i say they should shoot rockets? I said it’s a result of the blockade. If you push arabs too much, you’ll get violence. Jews in golus have a principle, don’t start up with the goyim.

We have had peace with egypt and jordan for 40 years. Do they love us in those countries. Wouldn’t they love to destroy us. But you can still have peace.

Putting a blockade because of an election result is provocation on the part of Israel. Israel does that often. If you knew anything about the real history of the state you’d know that. But you live in an echo chamber, where all you hear is your own voice and of people of your ilk.

Tom Dick and Harry “Burning cars of innocent random people? How does stealing from those innocent people address the aggressors of the anti Torah regime? That is simple misplaced aggression and simple gezel.”

To save your life you can do all sorts of things. I don’t recommend burning cars. In my mind, the mistake everyone makes, including the Arabs, is underestimating the evil of the zionists. They’d be perfectly happy to slaughter a hundred thousand people. So if you start with burning cars, there’s no telling what they’d do.

Tom Dick n Harry

Since when does Ben gurion and his followers take ownership of Eretz Yisroel? Is that all it takes, you declare independence, get an army, empty out 400 Arab villages and presto the land is yours?

So we have to leave? Who supported these people for the last 75 years. Who gave them dollar after dollar. Who pressured the US gov. on their behalf. And now they are turning on us and we have to leave the land?

If someone is trying to destroy what’s most important to you you probably are justified in burning cars. But I wouldn’t advise it. I’m not sure I even advise sitting in the street in suits and singing songs which is all these bochurim are doing.

i don’t know the answer. But I’m not in love with IDF as probably nearly everybody here is. Their aggressiveness gets many people killed. Nearly every war was avoidable. The State of Israel is the cause of most world anti-semitism. Before the state jews lived fairly peacefully in Arab lands. They were expelled after the state and after israel’s false flag operations there. And remember the state of Israel is the one that keeps telling people to make aliyah. They invite us. People like me were foolish enough to listen. If you are in the USA, stay there, stay in a land that respect religious freedom and doesn’t make a cult of its military.

Here’s the difference between Modern Orthodoxy in America and the State of Israel. In America, the MO are insecure. They know the Charedim are frummer. I once talk a walk down Bedford Ave. in Williamsburg. I felt ashamed of myself. Everyone was so modest. They men were carrying sefarim. It was inspiring as I knew they were better than me, me who knows the lyrics to every Beatles song. Most MO, at least the ones with any intellectual honesty, feel this way. Yes, we try to cover it by ranting about the problems in the Charedi world. We take isolated incidents and talk about them forever. But just go over the RIETs at YU. They do all they can to imitate the Charedim who they know set the standard for religious idealism today. Well all they can except when it comes to Zionism and feminism.

In Israel, the Modern Orthodox, aka Dati Leumi, are arguably less frum than American MO. The teenagers in the DL school near my house wear tight, stretchy skirts that sit five inches about their knees. The goyim in Walmart are more modest than these Dati Leumi youth whose mothers are little better.

They try to make up for it with military service. That’s their thing, their idealism. I’m a good Jew, I was in the military. That’s the attitude.

For many years the DL said, leave us alone this is how we want to be. And they concocted these parallels to the armies of Joshua and Dovid ha-melech and expected us to buy into it. And the Charedim said, that’s not in my Shulchan Aruch. This is not Judaism. So you stay over there and we’ll stay over here.

But now the Israeli government, having conquered the Arabs, is coming after the Charedim with their draft into their secular brainwashing machine. And the Dati Leumi, who the Charedim always suspected of being more loyal to the secular state than to Hashem and His Torah are showing that they indeed are more loyal to the secular state. And they are confident now with regards to the Charedim. They have the secular army and police to back them up. Cut off funds. Toss the bums in jail. That’s what they are saying.

Essentially, they have sold out their brothers to the local ruler. Unlike in America where the MO generally admire the Charedim and take their lead in religious matters from them, in Israel the MO are trying to lord over the Charedim and have sided with the secular authorities to do so. I am no Novi, no prophet, but my guess is that Heaven will exact an incredible vengeance for this. Most of the final days before Moshiach have consisted of a weeding out of the disloyal. And this may be one of the final tests. You who call yourselves shomer Shabbos, let’s see what’s really in your hearts.

Avi kane, you write “MTAB, you are motzi shem ra on the State and its functionaries.”

The state is a person? It’s a religious entity? One can’t be motzi shem ra on a secular state, particularly one that has a long history of opposing Torah Judaism. Don’t be fooled by the Magen Dovid on the flag or the other symbols the state stole from traditional Jews.

The brisker rav said, two things are certain, zionism is idolatry. everyone in israel stumbles in zionism.

Avi kane, you write, “More and more religious soldiers are top brass in the IDF. ”

Define religious. As I have observed it Dati Leumi practice a different religion from Charedim. WHen I came to israeli, i was not Charedi, but when I saw how most DL conduct themselves I realized I had to make a choice. and these military DL, they are commandos with yarmulkas. There’s more to being a Jew than keeping kosher. There are frum values, ways of carrying oneself. Swagger, arrogance, and faith in F-16s is not exactly the Rambam’s Judaism. The greatest crime of the MIzrachi, who the Brisker Rav, the Chazon Ish, and most gadolim openly opposed, was making secular zionism seem Jewish. and the DL make it seem as though one can be frum in the military. Maybe you can be minimally observant there but you can’t be a traditional fully dedicated yid there. I don’t care how many photos of soldiers with tefillin you show me.

There are many ways to serve one’s country. In sophisticated and healthy societies, people contribute according to their aptitudes. Kindly people become social workers. Those who are good at math become scientists or accountants or math teachers if they also happen to be good at teaching. And solders become solders. A normal country needs all of these contributions, these ways of serving. In Israel, which claims to having a modern economy and vibrant democracy, there’s a common conception that everybody has to be a solder, even people who are not cut out for it, even people who are damaged by the experience. The claim is that security needs dictate this but this is an opinion not a fact. The fact is Israel has not been in a war against another country in 40 years and arguably a country doesn’t need every young person in military uniform unless it is at war. Israel needs defense forces but it does not need to act as though it is in a major war when it is not. There’s a big price a country pays for excessive militarism.

It is possible that all the calls for military service have little to do with security needs but are rather a habit that formed when the state was founded. It is possible also that it is a kind of religion that was founded by people who rebelled against their traditional religion and formed a new one. As the saying goes, Israel is not a country with its very own military. It’s a military with its very own country. And that military has a very intense culture that is secular, aggressive, full of swagger and other traits that are contrary to traditional Judaism. The insistence that all Charedim “serve” in the military, or let us say serve the military, is arguably a violation of religious freedom. That some people in Israel, particularly the National Religious, see this as a dereliction of duty, is perhaps because the army is a religious entity to them. So what they are really saying is that we all must serve their god and practice their religion.

The irony is palpable. Israel, the so-called Jewish state, is becoming a society that denies religious freedom to Jews. Those lacking passports to other countries may need to apply for political asylum. I am not joking. The court is insisting that all Charedim serve the army and the chilonim and, more disappointingly, the National “Religious” are applauding. They don’t understand the complexity of the matter and don’t care to try because religious faith often works on simplicity, even faith in idols works that way.

Not yeshivish. It’s modern as are all zionists.

I agree with Joseph and would like to add that the halachic issues are only half the problem. The Esav like culture of the IDF is the other half.

Tell her she can be frum without learning. Women have no chiyuv to ‘learn’. Just keep Shabbos, Kashrus, etc.

There are exceptions but generally 7 years. I have known differences of 10 years that work out. Depends on the people.

See Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 4:24

“Behold it is known that all the people of Poland, Hungary, and Russia…are children of Ashkenaz even Chasidim. And until Chasidus spread they all prayed with nusach Ashkenaz. However, the Chasidic leaders lead them to pray in a different nusach with various changes…They changed the customs of their ancestors and our great rabbis of Germany and France. The reason for the change is not clear nor how they permitted a change from the established nusach….If one desires to change back and pray in nusach Ashkenaz, since it is the nusach of our ancestors and rabbis, he is permitted as he is returning to what once was.

Oh you thought your kid was your own. You didn’t know the school owns your kid?

R’ Avigdor Miller, class #646 Mind of Control

[1:27:36] Unfortunately today there’s a rash of divorces and in most cases it’s Jewish women. Even the frum Jewish women are demanding divorces from their husbands, all over, everywhere. It’s an epidemic and a tragedy of tragedies. They are ruining their lives, but most of all they are ruining their neshamas.

People are not willing to make peace with their circumstances. Say I’m going to live the best I can with the circumstances that Hashem gave me. These are the people who are going to succeed and they are achieving what’s called shlaimus of parishas haratzon. They are conquering their passions. They are ruling with their minds over their emotions. And that is the greatest perfection.