Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Barry: Of course I believe everything is hidden in the Torah. Everything is in Ha’azinu, according to the Ramban. That doesn’t mean that the Torah Codes people found it.
DY: I mean, the concept has existed in theory for centuries. But this guy’s book (based around Rabin and Rotzeach Asher Yirtzach) is what created the field in modern times.
From Wikipedia, entry The Bible Code (book):
“The Bible Code is a best-selling book by Michael Drosnin, first published in 1997. A sequel, The Bible Code II, was published in 2002 and also reached best-seller status.
Drosnin describes an alleged “Bible code”, in which messages are encoded in the Hebrew bible. The messages are purported to be hidden in the Torah, and can be deciphered by placing the letters of various Torah passages at equal intervals in a text that has been formatted to fit inside a graph.
Drosnin suggests that the Code was written by extraterrestrial life (which he claims also brought the DNA of the human genetic code to Earth). Drosnin elaborates on this theory in The Bible Code II, suggesting that the alien who brought the code left the key to the code in a steel obelisk. Drosnin attempted to find this obelisk, which he believes is buried near the Dead Sea.”
DY: Pashtus is the proponents are liars.
And seriously, read the book. It’s too stupid to be real Kefirah. But it’s absolute Kefirah. I don’t know how or why Aish jumped on the concept. But seriously, any Frum person who reads the book will both laugh his head off and realize that there’s no truth to this whatsoever.
newbee: Hair styling was a male endeavor in America for many years. Isn’t one of the “Blue Laws” in some places that women can’t cut hair?
Torah Codes are ridiculous. It’s been proven that the same codes can be used with any sufficiently long work–e.g. the works of Shakespeare and Mark Twain.
Also, the guy who “invented” the Torah Codes was a nutcase and a Kofer.
Joseph: No, that was just a debating point. But you can’t be sure and neither can I.
Ben: But that might not be relevant. I always thought (and major Talmidei Chachamim agreed) that the point there is not about certain actions being inherent. It’s about everything between husband and wife being inherently Derech Chibah. That doesn’t shed any light on other actions between non-married people.
Joseph: If you assume like R’ Moshe, then some people are told to try to worry about CS while others are told *not* to try to worry.
If you assume like the Chazon Ish, Pashtus is there’s no difference and being “Machmir” is just a waste.
Joseph: Because he’s a Ba’al Nefesh. Which comes with its own requirements and expectations. Hashem judges everyone on their own level.
Let me ask you a similar example: A Sefardi won’t use an Eruv (let’s say it’s Kasher for all Ashkenazi Chumros) because it has a street 16 Amos wide inside it. An Ashkenazi will. Does the Sefardi get more Schar? Do Ashkenazim get more Schar for all of our Chumros in Hilchos Shechitah? WIll HKBH take Schar away from Sefardim for eating Kitniyos? Why/why not? And how is this different?
newbee: Is that true? Yeihareg means I have to be killed. How do we know I can let someone else die because of my Taavos?
newbee: Why do you assume that building is a masculine job? Because in our society it’s mostly done by men? I have no idea, but I’m sure if we do research we could find cultures in which women did the building (maybe see Tamid 32, but it’s not a real Ra’aya).
Mammele: I think I’ve maintained a healthy amount of cynicism for the last 5-10 years. 🙂 To seriously address your question, I have personal practices because they are what I feel Hashem wants from me. Whatever the particulars of those are don’t matter. I in no way imagine that I am gaining anything that anyone else isn’t by keeping any Chumros that I have. Just because I feel the Sugya goes one way and therefore I have to act in accordance doesn’t mean that I imagine that someone else who a) doesn’t know the Sugya or b) reads the Sugya a different way is any worse in the eyes of Hashem than I am. I will leave the judging up to Him. So long as one acts in accord with legitimate Halachic practice, I will never have the arrogance to claim that I am better or have more Schar than them. And I feel it necessary to strongly disagree when others do that.
Joseph: You are confusing what Ba’al Nefesh Yachmir means. You have the cause and effect backwards. You are assuming that being Machmir makes one a Ba’al Nefesh. It doesn’t. It means one who already is a Ba’al Nefesh should be Machmir. And I will contend that a Ba’al Nefesh gets the same Schar for keeping “CY” as a Stam person does for keeping his version of CY, i.e. Chalav Stam. Does the Ba’al Nefesh have a bigger Chelek for being a Ba’al Nefesh in the first place? Maybe. But that’s really not anything for anyone down here to decide.
Joseph: “Is it your contention that if someone’s Rov told him that it is not halachicly required to use CY, then his using only CY will not gain him any favor with Hashem or provide him any reward in olam haba?”
It is my contention that the Gemara says that when he gets to Shamayim HKBH will ask him why he did not enjoy the Haagen Daazs that HKBH specifically put in this world for him.
mik5: That is the Ra’ayah Berurah from Shas that Derech Chibah is not objective.
mik5: Kesubos 17a
mik5: “Even if he knows with 100% certainty that shaking her hand will not lead him to have bad thoughts, it is still 100% assur to shake her hand”
That is actually not true. There is a B’feirush Gemara against that.
mik5: “Anyone who imagines that his parnassa is dependent on such factors is a kofer.”
That is patently absurd. Do you show up for work? Do you even have a job? Do you ever get out of bed? It’s clear that we are expected to do what we are supposed to do to make a living. Don’t claim that actually doing a job is Kfirah.
Joseph: At the 25-minute mark
DY: I never understood that. There is a lot more physical contact in saving a drowning person than a brief handshake. I just don’t get the claim.
This is a famous story about R’ Moshe Feinstein. I declined from citing it in the other thread for several reasons, but the story is well-verified.
If the mods will allow the link, http://www.aish.com/jw/s/The_Holiest_Generation.html
If not, Google Aish.com the holiest generation
writersoul: It’s easy. If someone gives a Psak he doesn’t want to agree with, that Posek is automatically “MO” so that he can write him out of Judaism. It’s brilliant. It’s a “no true Scotsman” with the Heilige Joseph as the direct conduit to God’s will.
DY: The observations I was responding to may have been without malice, but they were certainly not objective.
Joseph: And yet the Chasam Sofer holds it has to be a woman. He has a Chiddush in the Gemara in the beginning of Bava Metzia (I think) like that.
DY: Meh. Almost all test score averages even out towards the middle once you correct for socioeconomic status. It’s not about race. It’s about opportunities growing up.
oomis: And people who believe the many antisemitic news reports might see you and worry about their stuff also.
Isn’t there a Rama or something somewhere that says that real Chalav Akum doesn’t make Keilim Treif?
DY: I highly doubt you disagree with everything apushatayid said. For example:
“No. All agree there is a takanas chazal. There is disagreement whether the commercial milk sold in the USA under government oversight and regulation satisfies this takanas chazal.”
seems correct, what’s there to disagree about there?
“Personally, I dont know a large enough percentage of “people” to state one way or another what “people” do or dont do.”
I presume you don’t know everyone he knows
“I am hard pressed to find anyone who does not. I am familiar with people who drink milk labeled chalav yisroel, and people who drink chalav produced under government oversight and regulation which according to their poskim satisfy the takanas chazal.”
or what’s wrong with this statement?
It’s possible that things like this don’t work because they don’t meet the legal requirements of how to buy land in Israel.
newbee: Interesting. I have to wonder if he’s inspired by the Besamim Rosh but he doesn’t seem to quote it. Either way, I’ll tell you Shkoiyach, you found a Da’as Yachid. Don’t pretend like it’s anything anywhere near normative to Pasken like this. Any Posek will tell you it’s suicide. If you want to pretend that extreme, Deios Yachid can be treated as Halachah, go learn with Popa’s friends at YCT.
Joseph: No, actually. Mai Chazis
newbee: Nope. It’s just your racist self. All stereotypes are actually just confirmation bias.
ca: Is the “avodah” of Aveilus after a relative dies to bring him back from the dead? Sometimes being sad itself is what Hashem wants from us. Fix the problems all year round. Be sad on Tishah B’av.
Joseph: Israel is far from a pagan State. It might not be Al Pi Torah, but that is a harsh thing to say.
I dispute the premise. We always Pasken from the Gemara. If a Psak is like the Rashba it’s not because the Rashba said so. It’s because the Poskim over the generations decided the Rashba had the clearest/best Pshat in the Gemara.
Curiosity: Maybe it shows the world is in decline, but the world as a whole is pretty close to the moral peak in recorded history, even if it may currently be on the way back down.
Joseph: Avi Weiss is a lot of things, but Pashtus is an Apikores is not one of them.
Trump isn’t running to win. He has no interest in being president or running a full election campaign. He’s doing this to add support to what he deems important and, if he gets enough popularity, to possibly help decide who will be the Republican nominee based on who he endorses. He has no chance of winning and he knows it. That’s not why he’s doing this.
Joseph: You’re gonna be Medayeik in thirdhand hearsay? “Outside the pale of Orthodoxy”=Apikorsus. No one there was saying otherwise.
PBA: Are you referencing that you actually saw a Rebbe from there that supported the insane comments? It happened, I’m just curious if you knew it happened or got lucky.
And the students and other faculty Rebbeim were very upset at this Rabbi for agreeing with the Apikores Talmid.
At some point the Yeshivah will make a split. Either they’ll kick out all of the Apikorsim or all of the non-Apikorsim (read: Rabbi Linzer and everyone Frum there because they all hold like him) will leave. Until then, though, it is both impossible to accord the institution any respect and unfair to denigrate those who go there who are Frum (though that number is dwindling).
mobico: I thought the Mishnah says that Ala Aleha Zachar is Kasher, He’elah Aleha Zachar is Passul because then it did Melacha for the owner.
For whatever it’s worth, several fellow YCT students were outraged at the dumb statements of a YCT student this week and felt he went beyond the pale of Orthodoxy.
Avi K: The Malkus is only D’Rabannan because it’s technically a Lav She’Ein Bo Ma’aseh (because there’s no Maaseh Issur Mesuyam that it includes). But the Issur is still D’Oraisa.
Does it matter? We don’t need a Parah Adumah nowadays and when we need one, we’ll have one.
DH: Your whole Shtickel is against a Yerushalmi. And there are lots of different reasons Bayis Rishon was destroyed. Some include Arayos. But it wasn’t an Ikkur.
Akuperma (I think): 2 women is an Issur of Ma’aseh Eretz Mitzrayim, which is not one of the Sheva Mitzvos.
Joseph: It’s a Machlokes about that Aruch HaShulchan. And to say such things about a Rishon is beyond disturbing. Who needs a Torah? Any Shittos you don’t like were only put there to mollify the censors.
DY: Meh, it’s Assur to name it.
Right, and that Rabbeinu Tam argues on Rashi, the other Deiah in Tosfos, and I thought the Ramban as well (and I think the Rambam too).
DY: No, because not everyone knows what Atlas is. They’re telling people who may come along later, and won’t recognize idols by name, what forms constitute something that was usually Ne’evad.
Joseph: I think, according to the famous Yam Shel Shlomo, that what you just said is Kefirah. I cannot believe that you would attempt to change a Posek or Rishon’s words by saying they didn’t really mean what they said because of external pressure.
DY: To your last comment, again, that just doesn’t make sense. Why are we making Sevaras about what they worship or don’t? Just ask them.
R’ Meir and RSHB”G are about assumptions. The Chachamim disagree because they’re not worried about assumptions, they’re worried about Metzius. And Rabbeinu Tam clearly disagreed with Rashi and others as to which Tzad the line in the Gemara is talking about (unless you’re talking a different Rabbeinu Tam).
DY: Well, it’s not Pshat but I would be most comfortable if MeIkara Savar was referring to the Ovdei AKU”M. I agree the most simple is that Chazal were in error of the OA”Zs’ intentions at first and then corrected themselves, but that feels wrong, doesn’t it? So I dunno. I would think my second option is the best-that Chazal knew these idols were worshiped but didn’t think what they did constituted worship because they didn’t view them as deities, just a statue representing Listim or something like that. And then they realized that they weren’t just viewing these idols as representing Listim but that they were actually gods.
RSB”G presumably holds something else entirely. Namely that if they went to the extent to be so precise in this Pesel as to have it hold something, it’s because it’s meaningful to them and therefore presumably Ne’evad. Which makes sense that the Gemara asks what if he’s holding something very not respectful.
I was assuming like Rashi and the other Rishonim, yes. My Pshat has a bit of trouble with Rabbeinu Tam. I’m not saying he was mistaken (though I haven’t thought it all out; it could be that that’s the only possible outcome), but he is a minority opinion in the Rishonim.
DY: I intentionally left off choice 3 because I thought you would feel (and I feel that way myself) that it is not appropriate to imply that the original Mishnah was unaware of the Metzius.
And I think your reading of the Mishnah is what R’ Meir was assuming. Once we get to the Chachamim, the Mishnah is just telling the Metzius.