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eclipse: And why should the father have to give up their kids more than the mother? They should not.
The names Midwood and Flatbush were interchangeable for the same area already in Dutch times and continuing into the British period.
In Michtavim U’Maamaromim 5:533 (pg. 137) Rav Shach further writes that citing the success of those people who were able to achieve greatness in Torah despite their involvement in secular studies are the “ma’aseh satan” for using such examples will entice others to follow suit, only to be doomed.
The Chasam Sofer in Parshas Beshalach states clearly that certain secular knowledge is useful for learning certain Torah topics, such as cow anatomy being useful for shechitah, and arithmetic for Eruvin and Sukkah. But that before we embark on obtaining secular knowledge – and of course that means only to the extent that it is useful for our Torah studies – we must first fill ourselves with Torah-only knowledge. After we are strong in Torah, only then can we move to acquire the useful secular knowledge that we need for our Torah studies.
He quotes the Rambam, who he describes as “the father of philosophy” in our religion, in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah, stating that a person may not learn philosophy until after he has “filled his stomach” with Shas and Poskim, which are the things, and only the things, that bring us Olam Habah. Then he quotes the Rashba, saying that there is a cherem against learning any secular studies if you are under age 25! The he quotes the Gemora in Brachos “Keep your children away from science” (higayon, as some meforshim translate it), noting that the Gemora is directing its prohibition at “your children”, but not at the adults, for adults, who are already advanced in Torah knowledge, need some secular knowledge, such as cow biology (I keep emphasizing that so that we do not make the error of thinking that the secular knowledge that we need is a college education). But it is dangerous for us to pursue it until we are armed and ready with a Torah foundation. This is because someone with a Torah perspective looks at the value and culture of of secular studies differently than does someone ignorant of Torah. And we do want to get the proper perspective.
It’s kind of like firemen putting out a fire. They have to (a) dress in their heat-resistant protective outfits, and (b) run into the fire and put it out. But of course, they have to do it in the right order.
And that is indeed what it boils down to – do we value the Torah’s standards of education more than that of the secular world or vice versa? The choice is simple: All the secular “education” that you get will be useless to you in the next world. There, they will not ask you if you know how many US presidents were re-elected in history, or whether you are familiar with the policies of Chairman Mao, or if you know how to program a computer. They will bring a Sefer Torah scroll to you and ask “do you know what it says in here?” The more you know of that, the more you will be considered “educated”. The less you know, the more you will be considered ignorant. So the question is – do I want to be educated on this world or on the next?
And please note, there is no minimum threshold for the amount of Torah you are obligated to know. The rule is: more is better; less is worse. And the difference between just a little more and a little less is staggering. As the Vilna Gaon points out, one word of Torah knowledge gives you more holiness than an entire lifetime’s worth of doing other Mitzvos.
And here we thought that a secular education is expensive! Its much more expensive than you think – you can acquire it only at the expense of your time and effort that you could have been putting toward becoming educated in Olam Habah.
Two things, though. First, the prohibition is only to learn secular studies as a regular curriculum. To read about them occasionally in your spare time is permitted.
Speech from Rav Elya Svei:
It says further, in Targum Yonoson, that one should not be a false witness. I want to stop here. In public life here in Brooklyn, there is false testimony. We have merited, through blood and sweat and with the Almighty’s help, to establish large Yeshivos for the boys and Bais Yaakovs for the girls. And these schools produced students of whom all can be proud. But then someone comes and says that they are still incomplete. When the boys go out of the Yeshiva, they are still not finished — they still need more studies: they still have to go to “Touro College” to be well-rounded. That is the biggest false testimony against the Torah. The boys do not need such “completeness”.
One is not allowed to be friends with them! One is not allowed to be partners with them! What will be with our children? From where will our great Torah leaders come? From Touro College they will not come! And mothers of Gedolei Torah will also not come from Touro College, because the Gemorrah says that to merit children who will become Gedolei Yisroel, one has to have modesty. And modesty cannot be acquired in Touro College!
Homeowner: He is doing swell and sends you his fondest regards.
Homeowner, using standard html coding for a link:
Two more “proofs” of global warming:
1. THIS WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/169577/Winter-may-be-coldest-in-1000-years/
2. Last Winter Was Fifth Warmest on Record
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/26/national/main6336484.shtml
See, coldest winter, warmest winter, doesn’t matter. Either way, proof of “global warming”.
charliehall: Haven’t you previously stated you are a congregant of Rabbi Avi Weiss’ synagogue?
I agree with asdfgh. Lounges are the most suitable places for a date. And it serves the purpose of a date better.
She needs a spouse more than a roommate.
…a very big distance.
aries: Free legal aid for the poor is for criminal cases, not civil cases.
The saying I used to hear was men decide using intellect and women decide using emotion. Or something like that.
Woha! Saying “yes” so quick? Just for suggesting a date? He might not have the ring yet…
Now why is it a hashkafic problem to take the animal into consideration when deciding how to use your time?
Bittul Torah.
He speaks Yiddish.
Whatever sayings the non-Jews have, are usually backwards.
No pet. But not necessarily a strictly assur min halacha; rather its not appropriate. (i.e. not everything permissible should be done.)
metro: Rav Herbst is a big tzadik.
mike: Just because someone went to college in the folly of their youth, does not indicate they were not opposed to it later, after maturing in Torah values and becoming a great person.
PY: My point there was that even the authorities that allowed college, were dead-set opposed to television.
See: Rav Schwab.
Rav Schwab also asked a shaila to Rav Boruch Ber Liebowitz and Rav Elchonon Wasserman if college is permissible. Both paskened, in response to Rav Schwab, that it was not permissible. Rav Schwab accepted their psak.
Mod-80: For aveilus I think you are absolutely correct. Like RuffRuff pointed out, there is a specific Gemorah telling us to be meikel.
That gemorah also demonstrates you cannot be meikel in all areas, as you needed the special gemorah to tell us to be meikel in a specific area of halacha.
mike: I spoke to an ORTHO Rav who did research. The answer was no.
The Gemara says that in Aveilus we go after the least stringent view.
Many people like to extend that principle to all areas of halacha. And when they can’t find one, you’ll often find newly minted least stringent views.
I see no reason why Rav Moshe or anyone should refrain to going to the best medical doctor even if he is an apikorus non-Jew.
A present can be any useful item.
Besides, there is nothing more enjoyable than learning about Hashem’s Torah.
I’m sending Bloomberg a link to this thread.
And a non-frum person should be denied the great benefit of giving tzedaka, since he isn’t Shomer Shabbos? I would guess having gone to college is not as bad as being mechallel Shabbos.
McDonald’s will not pay $73,000 for flipping burger. Maybe $7.30 an hour.
“Which include the metzius of what he can do and what certain terms mean and what the actions entail.”
Exactly. And he doesn’t necessarily need to be a telegraph operator to know that. He can consult a telegraph expert if necessary. In fact, I doubt many great poskim were telegraph operators, and am sure many telegraph shailos came up.
How about a book on tznius? 10 is the perfect age. Plus it can enhance her reading skills.
AC: There is nothing wrong with a 1.
Hashem is 1.
A posek doesn’t need to be a telegraph operator to answer a shaila what a telegraph operator must do in a given situation. He needs the pertinent facts.
Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L denounced college in a Teshuva, and in a famous speech delivered to his students, published under the title “The Counsel of the Wicked” (Vaad LeHaromas Keren HaTorah, New York, 1978). There he reiterates that everyone has an obligation to become great in Torah, we should not care so much about Cadillac’s (yes, this was said in the “olden days”), and that learning Torah is what we should be pursuing, not secular stuff. He says in America you do not need college to make a Parnassa, and we should be willing to live on little, not a lot, for the sake of Torah, and that R. Nehuray’s statement of abandoning all skills in favor of Torah applies all that more today that we live in a country where you can make a parnassa without college, with no miracles needed.
There is a tape available in many Seforim stores called “The prohibition to learn in Colleges” (Yiddish), which contains addresses by Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L and Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L condemning college.
The problem with copying is the halachic principle of “taking away business” from the seller.
A person benefits from the zechusim of his ancestors going 9 (?) generations back [and suffers from the aveiros of 3 (?) generations back.]
blue: Opening Post (or opening poster) i.e. the first post of the thread.
Once you do, you may find the idea financially impractical.
blinky:
He broke his vacation due the dire state of emergency I informed him NYC is experiencing. Obama is a true gentleman.
cantoresq,
My question was what is the total sum per year, in your estimation, required to achieve your stated goals. And how you realistically expect to raise that figure fundraising – on an ongoing basis.
Are the fools who yelled go ask your LOR going to yell at The Wolf for asking an identical question above?
Or, perhaps, as yitayningwut pointed out while the OP’s question made you feel uncomfortable with the halacha, The Wolf’s did not? Hmm…
Itche: You don’t need a computer to answer those shailos.
I just spoke to Obama. As a result, he is now on his way to NYC to fix the situation.
I have found that many people without yichus have a chip on their shoulder and an inferiority complex.
cantoresq:
In your estimation, how much will this new fund need to raise to pay the sharks? Once you have your figure, how to propose that size fund is realistically attainable — on an ongoing basis?