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JosephParticipant
whattosay: Chacham Ovadia Yosef encouraged Yibum among Sephardim.
JosephParticipantubiq: That’s like saying that shatnes is (was) a mitzvah that’s no longer observed since in America it wasn’t observed generally by Orthodox Jews in America until Joseph Rosenberger started Shatnes Labs and made a big campaign to have people observe it. They should’ve been observing it all along but weren’t.
In any event, your attribution to Reb Dovid is incorrect. He did not say that is Minhag Ashkenaz. And the poskim do not recommend not following Hilchos Yerusha strictly. They all agree ideally it should be followed. But they also recognize extenuating circumstances for many and resistance to following it by many of the hamon hoam, hence the heteirim to deviate from the correct Halacha if necessary.
JosephParticipantJJ2020: Yirei Shamayim who use Beis Din rather than violating the issur chamur of arkaos use the halachicly prescribed marital assets distribution in a divorce rather than the contemporary gentile law of 50/50.
There’s absolutely no halachic or even hashkafic problem with marrying a first cousin in any frum Jewish community, including the ones where it isn’t common. Marrying a niece is specifically 100% okay even though the “besserer mentchen” these days hold their nose when they hear that. Marrying a first cousin is actually recommended and encouraged by Chazal. See Yevamos 62b. And Hashem told Moshe Rabbenu to tell the daughters of Tslophkhod to marry their cousins (Bamidbar 36: 5-13), and the Torah says “tov” about it.
JosephParticipantubiq: They find a limud zchus or even a heter for those that don’t use the Torah Law way for Yerusha but the rabbonim do not recommend or encourage to not use the halachicly prescribed yerusha. Several gedolei poskim have said exactly this and none said otherwise. Everyone (among the Gedolei Poskim) agree that the following the Halacha “as is” is generally the preferable default barring extenuating circumstances.
JosephParticipantubiq: You’re wrong on multiple items you mentioned including regarding whether as a practical matter we follow Hilchos Yerusha today. We absolutely do. The b’chor will as a general rule get a double portion. And Rabbonim for the most part do not recommend changing from the Torah’s Laws on yerusha. In fact, it is a major shaila whether it is even permissible. (Some hold it is.)
And Sephardim do Yibum.
JosephParticipantZD: The issur arkaos is, as you know, an issur chamur.
JosephParticipantubiq: When we say Shulchan Aruch we include the Rema in that terminology. The Gedolim in the days of the Shulchan Aruch and shortly thereafter have agreed to accept the psakim of the Mechaber and the Rema as authoritative.
Regarding the Shach, the Shach writes that one cannot even claim “kim li” against a psak of the Shulchan Aruch. This is akin to accepting someone as your “Rebbi”, where you follow his psakim. This is the same thing that happened when, let’s say, Klal Yisroel decided that the period of Chazal has ended after the 7th generraiton of Amorayim (Mar Zutra, Mar bar Rav Ashi, etc), and nobody from here on in can add to the Gemora. There was no “halachah l’Moshe misinai” that told us that the Gemora was sealed; it was the accepted reality told to us by our Gedolim. The same thing applies to accepting the Shulchan Aruch and Rema.
JosephParticipantAmerican Yerushalmi: Sefardim do Yibum. Teimanim and Sephardim do polygamy. Avadim is muttar and done in limited circumstances (mamzeirus, etc.), and can be done anywhere Dina D’Malchusa allows it.
JosephParticipantubiq: You seem to be upset that Hilchos Yerusha haven’t been thrown out the window and they are still binding Halacha today.
JosephParticipant“Hilchos yerusha, we basically dont follow.”
We certainly do follow Hilchos Yerusha. Especially when there was no will.
JosephParticipantfruminnj: Virtually every point in all your comments are directly contradicted in the Shulchan Aruch. Point by point.
“Yes, if they don’t, there’s penalties.”
The S”A clearly states that Beis Din is prohibited from penalizing the husband into giving a Get in the run of the mill divorce case where there’s no fault on the part of the husband. And the only time aB”D is halachicly permitted to penalize him into giving a Get is when he both a) is at “fault” with a specifically given fault by Chazal as a valid cause for divorce *and* b) there’s eyewitness evidence that he’s at fault (if he denies it.)
“But the sages have ruled financial incentives make the arrangement voluntary and willful.”
The SA specifically rules that creating a financial penalty to facilitate him giving the Get invalidates the Get even if he gives it to avoid said penalties.
“Women have more discretion to refuse the Get.”
Umm, Gittin 101 that’s taught to every Mesivta kid and up and is written all over the Mishna, Gemorah and SA and everything in between is exactly the opposite.
“At least in the cases I’ve been involved with, I can only speak from personal experience, it’s usually the women who want the divorce; not the men.”
Here you’re actually correct. Which is the reason the Torah gave the decision whether to divorce to the husband. To, exactly, discourage too many divorces.
“The days of needing witnesses to prove a claim for spousal abuse are no longer valid… As long as the woman is credible, her word alone is sufficient. Also, the man is not actually being punished for any allegations so there’s no need for witnesses. No one is being stoned to death. All the husband is required to do is provide a Get. ”
Halacha doesn’t change with each new century. This comment is utterly the opposite of the Halacha. The SA very very clearly says that Beis Din cannot mandate he divorce her if he doesn’t want to if there isn’t the eyewitness testimony of two witnesses corroborating her claims. And her claims can only be from the very limited specifically defined circumstances specified by Chazal that allow a Beis Din to mandate a Get.
Furthermore, the Shulchan Aruch rules that if a Beis Din orders the husband to give a Get when halachicly the Beis Din had no right to order him so, then the Get he gave is a Get Me’usa.
JosephParticipantDo you think any Halachas that the Shulchan Aruch or the Chofetz Chaim tell us to do are no longer done? Going through Sefer Chofetz Chaim I haven’t found any such examples.
As far as your examples, Sefardim do Yibum. Teimanim and some Sefardim (i.e. Moroccan) have polygamous marriages. Avadim is certainly muttar if a country allows it. And Chasidim, especially Rebbishe families, often marry first cousins today. As do numerous non-Chasidim. Chasidim everywhere (including in the U.S.) as well as Yerushalmis and many other Litvaks in Eretz Yisroel often marry before age 18.
March 25, 2018 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm in reply to: What Happened With Ezras Nashim In Boro Park On Monday Night? #1498022JosephParticipantDoes anyone think there’s anyone crazy enough to call Ezras Noshim instead of Hatzalah in c”v a potentially life threatening labor situation?
JosephParticipantJJ2020: Which “all the forced” Gets? Where have you seen many of those?
JosephParticipantShulchan Aruch is merely “guidance” and people who call themselves a rabbi can make themselves the “final word” against the Shulchan Aruch?! You have “experience and have advocated in this area and as long as the wife states” a claim even without evidence that the husband desires your beit din will order an involuntary divorce against the clear Biblical Law as enumerated in the Torah and Shulchan Aruch which clearly and unambiguously rules that without evidence on a claim denied by the husband/defendent it can’t be accepted and a divorce cannot be ordered?
Did you say you’re affiliated with a non-Orthodox stream? Because what you’re writing is clearly against Torah Law.
March 25, 2018 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm in reply to: What Happened With Ezras Nashim In Boro Park On Monday Night? #1497990JosephParticipantThe video directly attacks Hatzalah and Rabbonim. It is narrated by the head of the Ezras Noshim. It also mocks tznius and Jewish tradition in general
JosephParticipantfruminnj: According to the Shulchan Aruch, Halacha (Jewish Law) is that if the husband gives a Get because he’s required to under New York State law or Israeli law rather than because he wants to, Halacha clearly deems that Get to be what Jewish Law calls a “Get Me’usa” (an “invalid Get”) and it isn’t worth the parchment it’s written on. It is halachicly exactly as if he didn’t give any Get at all and the wife remains an eishes ish (a married woman) in the eyes of Jewish Law.
The Torah directly and Halacha clearly state that in order for a Get to be valid it must be given completely and totally voluntarily because the husband desires to give it and not because a secular force, third-party or national law pressured him to give it.
JosephParticipantYou see, Syag, you’re once again parroting about my version of the Halacha when I absolutely did not offer *any* “version”. I simply quoted, verbatim, the actual text of the Halacha “as is” it is written in the Seforim HaKedoshim. And that’s what you don’t like. It isn’t a “version” of the Halacha that you and Phil don’t like; it is the Halacha itself that you object to but are embarrassed to say so in so many words. So instead you rant about a “version”.
To “question it’s application nowadays” of this or any Mitzvah, Phil, is exactly what the Conservatives/Masorti do every day with every Mitzvah they don’t like since it doesn’t fit into a Western 21st Century world they idolize.
The Posek was Rav Elyashiv. Does he meet your standards? I ask because even the Chofetz Chaim failed to meet your standards, so much so that you “question it’s application nowadays” something the Chofetz Chaim paskened in Shmiras HaLashon, Hilchos Rechilus, a relatively very very short time ago.
Syag, about your comment that I “selected this to be the one that you perfect and fulfill to the outmost”, if I did that would be a good thing. No less than if I (or anyone) selected the Mitzvah of Bikur Cholim to be the one mitzvah I perfect and fulfill to the utmost and make extra special efforts to fulfill moreso even than some other Mitzvos. The Mitzvah of Bikur Cholim and the Mitzvah we’re discussing here that the Chofetz Chaim, Rambam, Sefer HaChinuch, Chazal and so many others write and tell us how to fulfill are both equally Mitzvos. And it is certainly a worthwhile Mitzvah to make a special effort to fulfill this above discussed Mitzvah and anyone doing so is very praiseworthy. But as it so happens I, in fact, (perhaps unfortunately) haven’t chosen to make a special effort to focus on this particular mitzvah. In fact, I do focus on Bikur Cholim with a special effort and am visiting and helping the sick in hospitals and nursing homes with an effort above some other Mitzvos.
Syag, you once again, as you’ve done frequently before with not only me but with DaasYochid and many other posters here, grossly mischaracterized and twisted what I said into the fashion of how your crooked mind thinks. I simply quoted the abominable statement of Phil that, r”l, he “question it’s application nowadays” the same way the Reform/Masorti habitually do. This is nothing new for that rasha who has a history here of attacking the foundations of Torah Law that he thinks is outdated for the 21st Century in a Western democracy.
Yes, he clearly and effectively questioned whether this Mitzvah and Halacha is applicable nowadays in his 21st Century era. Just as both of you repeatedly here tried to sugar-coat your virulent dislike of this Mitzvah by saying it was said over incorrectly, when the fact of the matter as any even semi-literate reader here can see that the Halacha was merely related verbatim from the Seforim HaKedoshim without any additional provisions thrown in to the comment.
Just in case anyone missed it, the comment above by Lebedik Yankel is a *must-read*.
JosephParticipantWelcome Back Hashem Is Everywhere! It’s been a long time…
JosephParticipantGoogle’s Waymo has said they’re confident that their autonomous cars would not have had the accident that the Uber autonomous car had hitting a pedestrian. Waymo already has fully autonomous vehicles operating in the Phoenix area with no one at all in the front seats, offering rides to commercial customers.
Imagine driving in Phoenix and seeing the car driving on the road on the side of you with no one sitting in the driver’s seat. It’s already happening.
JosephParticipantYet you’re borrowing his loshon and reusing it yourself.
JosephParticipantThank you Lebedik Yankel.
Syag, in addition to what Lebedik Yankel pointed out in answer to your and Phil’s kvetch, I didn’t offer any advice or opinions on beratings or derechs on implementing it. I simply provided a direct verbatim quote from the Chofetz Chaim in Shmiras HaLashon, Hilchos Rechilus 9:15. And from the Sefer HaChinuch in perek 239. And the gemara in Yoma daf Pey Vav amud Beis. And the Rambam in Hilchas Daes 6:9. Direct verbatim quotes and maare mekomos. Nothing more, nothing less. It is you and Phil who gets all angry that anyone dares even say these Mitzvos and Halachas. You find all kinds of scary things to throw into your comments, but it is in response to only merely citing the Mitzvah you don’t like.
After all, it is the 21st century these days. And the Chofetz Chaim was from the 20th century, wasn’t he. Things have changed nowadays from how we practiced Torah Judaism from Har Sinai through the times of Chofetz Chaim some do argue. They’ll tell you some old Mitzvos simply don’t apply or work in the space and information age.
JosephParticipantPhil, we get it. You don’t like the Halacha. You don’t like what the Chofetz Chaim says to do. You don’t like what Chazal say. You don’t like what the Rambam psakens. The Sefer HaChinuch is not your cup of tea. But everything I’ve written above are simply halachic quotes directly from the Chofetz Chaim, the Rambam, Chazal and the Sefer HaChinuch. I’ve added no commentary of my own and made no statements here other than to quote the Halacha.
JosephParticipantTakes: Like Phil, you clearly missed the point in Post # 1497505 above.
Most certainly do ask a Posek. I have.
JosephParticipantThere are people alive today that lived while the Chofetz Chaim was alive. The Chofetz Chaim wasn’t from ancient times, he was here with us not that long ago. And he told us and taught us exactly as he is quoted above.
Do you think this Mitzvah was the Halacha from the times of Chazal through the Chofetz Chaim but suddenly changed in the last few decades and is no longer a Mitzvah?!
Instead of coming up with your own boich sevaras, do what the Chofetz Chaim told us to do in sefer Shmiras HaLashon, Hilchos Rechilus 9:15. And what the Sefer HaChinuch perek 239 tells us to do. And what Chazal in the gemara in Yoma daf Pey Vav amud Beis tells us to do. And what the Rambam Hilchas Daes 6:9 tells us to do. And all the other Chazals, Rishonim and Achronim that tell us the same thing.
JosephParticipantYou’re a Chosid of Kim Jong Un?
JosephParticipantHow do you explain the chief of police of the city where the crash occurred publicly commenting that the crash would’ve very likely occurred if there was a human driver?
JosephParticipant“This is what HKB”H wants from us and will hasten our redemption, right Joseph?”
Absolutely. Doing the Mitzvah, as outlined in Chazal, the Rambam, the Chofetz Chaim and elsewhere, as well as following the tangentially related mitzvah outlined in the Sefer HaChinuch perek 239 that says you should give someone tochacha privately and in a nice way, but if they don’t listen to you then you should embarrass them in public so that they will do teshuvah, most certainly WILL hasten the coming of Moshiach.
Just as following any other Mitzvah.
JosephParticipantWho said anything about not asking the Rov first? My Rov and many other rabbonim have identified many reshaim and kofrim. There is no lack of them, unfortunately, in today’s world.
JosephParticipantChazal, the Rambam and the Chofetz Chaim all had confidence in the everyday Yid to make these determinations to be mekayim this Mitzvah. None of them limited performance of this Mitzvah only to the rabbinic or gedolic class.
And the Chofetz Chaim is our master on the issue of Loshon Hora. If he told us to do this Mitzvah then he certainly knew we can and should do it. In fact he cited this Mitzvah in his very sefer Shmiras HaLashon at Hilchos Rechilus 9:15.
JosephParticipantNu, Health. The entertaining part is who has better names to call the other party. Dotards, libtards, trumpleton and DemonCrats.
I’m not as funny as you guys.
JosephParticipant“Joseph- the people who could call out the fake tzadikim are the real ones because they have credibility. ”
JJ2020: This Mitzvah is a Mitzvah for everyone to do, not just a mitzvah only for tzadikim to do. Nowhere in the Mitzvah does it say that only tzadikim should do this mitzvah.
And make no mistake about it, doing this is a Mitzvah. The Chofetz Chaim tells us all about the severity of Loshon Hora, he also tells us — all of us, not just tzadikim, have this mitzvah. At the end of Shmiras HaLashon (Hilchos Rechilus 9:15), the Chofetz Chaim writes that the prohibitions against Lashon Hara and Rechilus do not apply to reshaim and kofrim and that it is, in fact, a mitzvah to mock such persons:
“מצוה לפרסם דעתם הכוזבת לעיני הכל ולגנותם, כדי שלא ילמדו ממעשיהם הרעים.”
“It is a mitzvah to make their false opinions public before all, and shame them so that others do not learn from their evil deeds.”
That’s the Halacha for you, for everyone here including me, for everyone in your shul and for tzadikim equally.
JosephParticipantAnyone have popcorn while we entertain ourselves watching this conversation between Health and YY?
March 22, 2018 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm in reply to: Wife older than husband: How is it working out? #1497159JosephParticipant“No one blinks an eye if a 30 year old guy goes out with a 25 year old girl, why should the reverse be different?”
No one thinks much if the husband is 10-15 years older than the wife. Do you think the same applies if the wife is 10-15 years older than the husband?
JosephParticipantThe local police department that investigated the crash said it was the homeless pedestrian’s fault. They said if the car has been human driven it would still have been unlikely to have avoided hitting her when she suddenly dashed out of the dark in the middle of a dangerous road.
JosephParticipantSelf driving cars are safer on the road than human driven cars.
The fault in the recent Uber crash was the pedestrian.
JosephParticipantAt a certain point Moshiach will come even if we c’v didn’t earn his arrival.
JosephParticipantJJ: “Doesn’t seem like this mitzvah is done very often.”
So let’s start doing it more often!
March 21, 2018 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm in reply to: Is there any food better than an excellent potato kugel? #1495737JosephParticipantWe need to have a CR blind taste test among members pitting the potato kugels of Rabbi Shain, Mentsch1 and DaMoshe against each other.
Ames, do you want to throw your hat in the ring?
March 21, 2018 12:51 am at 12:51 am in reply to: Is there any food better than an excellent potato kugel? #1495469JosephParticipantOMG, ames, how could you even ask? Of course! I’m glad you’re keeping up… I wish I could do the same.
March 20, 2018 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm in reply to: Is there any food better than an excellent potato kugel? #1495417JosephParticipantames!!! I dunno what you wrote about the potato kugel in your pending comment, but fugghedabout all that, welcome back!!
March 20, 2018 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm in reply to: Where it says that there is a jiyub to put on Tfillin every day? #1495382JosephParticipantOriginally Tefilin were worn the entire day.
March 20, 2018 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm in reply to: Minhagim After The Original Reason Is Gone #1495090JosephParticipantlaskern: Same with kitniyos.
JosephParticipantTeshuva.
JosephParticipantDemocrats in the Oval Office, as far as Israel is concerned, gave us Carter & Camp David, Clinton & Oslo and Obama & the anti-Israel UN Resolution.
JosephParticipantlaskern: The Rabbi in the story was the Arizal.
JosephParticipantA legitimate minhag is certainly not what the vidui is referring to.
JosephParticipantFrank: Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shternbuch and other gedolei poskim ruled that the prenups cause a Get Me’usa, for exactly the reason you mention, and as such may not be used.
And they’re virtually unheard of and unused in Chareidi weddings. (Chareidim are three quarters of the Orthodox community.) It is almost exclusively an MO thing, and even by the MO it is a minority that actually use them.
JosephParticipantFrank & Disillusioned: I’m simply speaking from Halacha. According to Jewish law if a man does not wish to divorce, he is not required to. And if he’s forced to give a Get under those circumstances, the Get that’s given is deemed by Halacha to be a Get Me’usa, an invalid Get. Even if he was incorrectly forced to give it by a beis din. (Let alone if he’s forced to give it by thugs threatening him.) All this is written in the Shulchan Aruch. So he’s still married to his wife according to Halacha even though he gave her a Get (Me’usa.) Therefore if she remarries she’s committing adultery and any future children are mamzerim since she’s still halachicly married to her first husband.
Of course there are a very limited number of circumstances that Halacha permits a Beis Din (and only a B”D) forcing a husband to give a Get against his will. But the only such circumstances that it’s permitted according to Halacha are the small number of precisely described circumstances that Chazal permit it (i.e. he has a physical deformity, or he habitually hits her and has been warned to stop and there’s proof he continues). Any other circumstance where he’s forced to give it, that aren’t one of the circumstances that Chazal described, the result is a Get Me’usa, per the Shulchan Aruch.
Similarly, Rabbeinu Gershom gave Ashkenazic wives the right to choose to refuse to accept a divorce that her husband wants to give her, if she wishes to remain married to him despite his desire to divorce her.
March 19, 2018 1:27 am at 1:27 am in reply to: Bingo Matzos – Claim Non Machine But Really Machine? #1493732JosephParticipantHow much does it cost per pound?
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