Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
back to the topic – not just about preferred way to daven, but about excluding people who follow accepted halachik opinions different from your own on how to dress. Should we go back to machlokes between nusach ashkenaz and sfarad? Mishnaic examples list cases when we shush a shaliach tzibur – when he says something unacceptable, not just “different”.
you probably meant Mishnah Berurah 91:12, 91:5 is about belts. Aruch Hashulchan, I think, rules differently.
> You don’t have to listen to your wife when she’s telling you to be less observant, nor she you.
Hear, here: _THIS_ is the root (square or not) of the problem. Thinking that putting an expensive black hollow cylinder on your head makes you more observant. Sherlock can eat his hat (I wore it once). This is a simple difference between what is appropriate to (symbolically) wear in front of a King in our days. If you think a black cylinder signifies that you are valuing the moment, I can easily beat it with an ancient siddur, a $400 davening tie and a golden watch. In reality, the underlying feeling is that being strange and different from “them” makes one more “observant”. This is a very understandable feeling and has a place, but it is not a universal key to unlock all mysteries of the world.
Aside: R Salanter had such a watch. He once was travelling and did not had tefillin with him. He asked people in some shul to borrow one (two), but nobody wanted to give it to an unknown traveler. Rather that revealing himself, he simply got his golden watch out and asked someone for the time so that he can set his watch correctly.
US has a great feature – separate states. Start implementing any of these policies in one state, so you can test 50 policies at the same time. If they work, then surely others will pick it up. Stop risking the country by applying potentially dangerous and surely divisive policies.
Gadol> minimum IQ threshold for voting rights which would ensure that women have a structural majority irrespective of any explicit gender restrictions.
I am also for IQ or other knowledge-based testing – both for candidates and voters.
Average IQ is same for men and women, but (not fully confirmed, I think) men have more variability – there are more stupid and more very smart men.
This is a general trend in biology – male species have more variability.So, if you use an IQ cut off 70, exclude stupid people, there will be more men excluded, but if you use cut off 120 – keeping only smartest voters, then there will be more men, so, in practice, wives of smartest men will be in control.
chassidish-theorist> women didn’t participate in any of these inventions is because they were excluded from doing so
Most men in history were also excluded. Only relatively rich and free men participated in intellectual life. There were societies where women had access – Roman aristocratic women, for example. In last several centuries, women had access to resources in many European countries. Yes, Mrs. Curie had difficulties getting accepted in male-run university, but she could have opened her own women-only school (I think she actually was involved in teaching in such schools), same way men organized men-run universities.
> due to the fact that republicans are more avid betters than democrats.
not sure where this is coming from, but I did not study how large and predictive betting markets are. A more proven way would be to look at stock market. There are known industries that will benefit from one of the candidates (T – oil, K – solar, etc). So, looking at their stocks would show you the odds. It does not matter who trades these – there is a lot of money here and a lot of analysis goes into making those bets. I am guessing that election betters simply use stock market analysis to bet. There are some articles that look at that.
Caveat: stock market failed in Trump/Hillary election. Yes, Hillary had 70% chance, which is not that high, but lazy brokers relied on the idea that she’ll win and they did not even bother to analyze Trump’s effect on economy. What happened (my recollection): in the middle of the election night when adds switched to T, stock market futures went down – because everyone wanted to sell pro-H stocks. It took several hours to do analysis of which stocks are pro-T and then futures went up (for several years). Given that failure is still remembered, surely nobody will make same mistake this time around.
Neville,
1) tefillin are in halacha, hats are not.
2) men wrote seforim about what they want women to wear. I’ll wait for women to write seforim what they want men to wear. For now, I am following Torah shebalpe from my wife and she paskens I should daven without a hat.R Aha b’ Yaakov (I think) sent his son to learn for a year and stayed home working the farm. When the son came back, he tested the son and then went back himself, leaving the son to work. Do you think he asked the son whether he followed every word or how many hours he was holding the (non-existent) gemorah? That he could have found out via a shaliach in the first month. No, he was waiting the whole year to see what the son has actually learned.
So, you guys discuss minutiae – minutes, with text or listening, etc. I suggested ^ a middos test, but probably an open ended question “tell me something you learned” is a better one. Some will learn middos, some something else. If a person learned one tremendous idea from the whole maseches, then you can do a siyum. Even if he did by listening 8-min daf at 2x speed while exercising.
This is happening not just with vote but with other things too – men invented physics, electricity, steam engine, cars, wipers, built roads, and now when they are driving, women tell them they are doing it wrong.
> Should men have the right to vote.
The argument could be made that men deserved their vote by fighting for it over centuries, developing philosophies and constitutions … After men earned a right to vote, they decided to share this right with the women – maybe hoping that the latter will reward them in their family life. Men, as usual, never think that they might be wrong, so they did not include a clause allowing them to have a later vote by men only to return to the status quo ante.
Looks like Trump. Betting markets slowly but steadily went from 48% to 63% for T in the last several weeks. It seems that anything that could have been said about him was already said. Ds and their media switched from Nazis to Fascists (term preferred in Marxist circles) showing that they are scrambling for the remaining Commie vote on the far left.
CS > minyan factory is a mincha minyan held in the factory office
indeed, if you are reading it the Hebrew way – a subject followed by an adjective.
Sephardim serm to be inconsistent. They generally dress to match the host community. Thus turbans. Now they switched to black hats to match their new neighbors while those hats represent the opposite approach.
This was discussed before, but I think posters here misunderstand the OP – he is not talking about a particular mishna or a Rambam that others disagree with. I think he is talking about overall sense coming from Gemora about desirable lifestyle, it is multiple multiple examples and stories, not just narrow halachik decisions. Yes, over centuries there is a list of decisions allowing asking community for funds for various services – as a way to deal with the situation. Probably, someone justifies even taking non-Jewish welfare funds too, maybe not publicly. But currently so many ignore all those gemoras and don’t even try to minimize the undesired behaviors. Why, then, bother learning gemora at all if you are not interested in their approach to life, just read the aharonim. Not all, of course – only those who support your lifestyle.
Tzadikim who come to the factory would start with earlier minyan and then gradually go to the next one and next one, finishing several hours later
> better danven alone with a hat then daven at shul with no hat!!!!!!!!!!!
with such halachik knowledge, you are not allowed to wear a hat.
Generally, one should not try to look like a Talmid Chacham if he is not (Bava Basra, even if it is not popular, it is still a gemora). BUT everyone should be davening with the tzibur – so how can they restrict non-T’Ch from davening!? And if they do such a restriction – why judge by a hat? Why not have a
random gemora questions on the screen and you can come in only if you answer those correctly.K’s husband is Jewish and is known in his interest in ladies, so there is a chance that she has Jewish step-children somewhere. I am sure they’ll show up later like O’s half-brothers.
> ladies’ tights and socks,
indeed, you are supposed to make simcha for the female side of your household, that is clothing and jewelry. For now you are getting socks based on your IRS filings (sold to advertisers by HR Block) or EBT payments (sold by Wholefoods). When AI finds out what your undeclared income is, you’ll start getting ads for jewelry like the rest of us.
Bava Basra: Moshe’s grandson (incorrectly) claims that he learns from his grandfather that it is better to work avoda zara than asking for tzedoka. He is corrected – it means working a “strange job”. Just modify your story that hospital stopped paying the surgeon and then this tzaddik became an exemplary janitor using all his skills, and the story looks different.
Of course, the surgeon will have a challenge that he needs to answer to his bosses, that he needs to sterilize his mop himself, that people do not remember his name and do not call him “Dr” … Hopefully, he overcomes these challenges.
Once a shoichet told R Salanter that he is exhausted being on the hook for kashrus for the whole town and wants to go into business. R Salanter answered – you are afraid of violating halochos of shchita, but what about all halochos of business – honest measures, paying on time, etc – there are way more challenges. So, hopefully medical school taught the surgeon all the skills he needs to be an ehrliche janitor.
why daven in shul where Yaakov Avinu would not be welcome.
Ask your wife. If your middos improved over this time, you can do the siyum. If they didn’t, no point celebrating even if you spent 5 hours daily on the daf. Good you asked early, you can do a check now and refocus your learning.
phil: there’s a saying “if someone doesn’t believe any stories of Chassidishe Rebbes
This is Rambam about Agadot. What Rambam thinks about stories of Chassidishe Rebbes is unknown to me.
I agree with how Chaim approaches analysis. We should disregard election messages – these are crafted to address some very specific narrow voter groups – left-handed muslims in MI or young black males in NC … Look at previous activities, especially those that came out naturally, like muslim ban that T started his term with.
I agree that Trump is an unknown unknown, but Kamala is more known and that includes both supporting Israel in general and deep antipathy to Israeli policies and also lack of executive and military experience making her dependent on her deep state advisors…
So, it will be easier for Hashem to answer our tefilos via a quick decision by T than create an open miracle overturning opinions of all secretaries and undersecretaries.
I am getting only apartment ads, is something wrong with me?!
> anything or anytime
list please
Neville > they’ll just start identifying (correctly) as goyish
Often true but depends on environment. Jews in Western Europe often continued marry mostly within their own, even when assimilated, secular, or even baptized. Same in interwar Poland and USSR (and Israel, of course). I’ve seen with my own eyes a Baal Teshuva from an old-times multi-generational German Reform family.
> Kook was a gadol before he went off the derech.
> You can see the handwritten letter online by Rav Elchonon Wasserman ztz”l who called him a “rushe gumir”.You got to have pretty serious reasons to consider a gadol to become OTD … Just because another person of the same stature disagreed with him on politics may be too risky, and leaves you no method to analyze disagreements between modern Talmidei Chachamim. At best, you yourself are choosing one Rav v. the other and claim that you are following a gadol; at worst, you are following what you learned from your heder rebbe, an accident of birth rather than a thought-through opinion.
To appreciate the problem, I suggest reading a sefer “making of the gadol” that may not necessarily address this hot issue, but it contains a lot of factual material about R Kamenetsky and others lives – and see if any of the details go against the stereotypes we have. This will help you appreciate how much we really know before making judgments on people.
I also wonder how much we hear about gedolim positions on political issues – unless they are outspoken about it.
Just a recent example – when masking wars were all rage, there was an impression in the press that all haredim disregard protection .. and then in a year an article that R Zilberstein Z’L is giving a first public shiur with a wide separation and a transparent mehitza between him and talmidim. I am pretty sure this information was not in the media before.Was R Menachem Kasher / author of Torah Shleima/editor of Rogacvhover – mentioned here? Gerer Rebbe sent him to EY in 1920s.
I just saw in Wiki (duh) that he proposed to have 5th cup during seder after Medinat Israel was created, but Rabanut was not interested …People mention desire for “frum” environment, but also consider “ehrliche” environment also. I heard about a hesitant law student asking R Soloveitchik whether it is ok to go into a profession where many are involved in lies and other ad behaviors. He responded – “so, you will be a poor lawyer”.
Indeed, there is a need to have a profession that will support a family and let you be an ehrliche yid. There is no need to be at the top of a particular profession if this requires compromises. There are might be some jobs where even earning a modest living honestly is hard. For example (notionally, not saying that every business is in this predicament) you run a construction or re-modeling business – how do you compete on price with those who hire illegals and ignore codes? Or, running a nursing home or selling standard merchandize on amazon – where margins are small, you again can earn a living by skirting rules and quality controls, every undernourished elderly would feed you … In this sense, accounting seems like a moderate risk – of course, you can get in trouble by joining a company in fraud, but it is not that difficult to earn a living by being honest, and even keeping others honest. At the other side of the spectrum, if you strive to be at the top of your profession – being an engineer or a computer programmer might be better. In this jobs, someone who is good at his job will get paid more just for that, no tricks required.
I think some people here have a desire to help others – they re-post political statements (from both sides) so that others don’t have to go to treife media. But, as a downside, you condition the group to talk in the same way. Maybe we should have a separate thread – press-releases – and then have a kosher discussion where people do not lie to each other?
Several comments, not necessarily answers to your questions:
1) time-related notion is not a definite rule, it is an asmachta. There are more exception than the rules. People make philosophical conclusions from that, but this is not a neduaraita.
2) halakha has assumptions on women’s social behavior but then treats them with respect when they are in a different position. For example, a lot of halochos around ketuba presume that the woman is dependent on her husband and establishes rules that are fair to both. At the same time, when a woman has property (usual presumption – from the father), then her rights are protected. If she is in business (II did not learn this, but heard from a dayan) – if she has a business dispute, she is not supposed to come to beis din, but beis din comes to her.
3) I presume same applies to learning. Yes, R Eliezer says teaching daughters Torah is teaching them shtus. Now, it is “not learning gemora”. But this is about a social policy – making all little girls into a beis midrash. A particular individual lady who wants or did learn something deserves respect, as it is (mostly) shown here.
4) Read the viduy – how much of it is about men-specific mitzvos? Probably, none. We are all guilty of over-valuing public demonstration of “frumkeit” over decent human behavior, chesed, etc. This is not a new thing, see neviim talking about bringing karbonos while mistreating people, but nowadays are also a response to anti-religious movements, as “frumkeit” demonstrated how we are different from the “apikoirisim”. So, while men are competing who will have a more expensive esrog, women have a whole field to themselves to practice (and learn!) about chesed, raising children, ehrlichkeit – and hopefully transmit that to their husbands and children.
>> For me it’s very clear from the Torah, that Hashem has no guf.
> Yet the Raavad says that it isn’t. So who should I believe?Raavad in this case. Sometimes, you need to suspend your current culture when reading old sources. Rambam lives in monotheistic and philosophical Islam era, Rabman in Christian with their own religious claims. Some of the gaonim they are responding to lived in Persian culture … So, what is clear to you, may not be obvious to them. Similarly, what is clear to Rambam, might not have been clear to those gaonim.
Think of any simple theorem you (hopefully) encountered in math and physics – most of them are proved in the textbook in 2 pages, but it took years for original discoveries.
Chaim > The Alfandri zl who was a big mekubal in Yerushlaim said that the reaon the chafetz chaim didn’t make it to EY was because he would have made sholom between R Kook and R sonnenfeld. Had that happened moshaich would have come.
The way I read this in the (haredi Israeli) sefer, Chofetz Chaim held a more pessimistic (realitsic?): if I go first to old yishuv, then in R Kook they’ll not learn Mishna Berura, if I go first to R Kook, then in old yishuv they’ll not learn Mishna Berura. So, it is better to have Mishna Berura in Israel than me in person. Irocnically, I bought this book near rechov Chofetz Chaim in Petach-Tikva that was, I believe, named for the apartment already bought for him.
Note that Ch.Ch posted a short letter in a newspaper in Poland at a time – to respond to many letters I received, I am not going to EY this year.
If Yonah were to lurk into this thread, he would surely demand everyone to do teshuva, whether they are in EY or in Ashur.
> will, once again, return to the office of the presidency
according to best meta-estimate of all betting sites – the chances are about … 50%. Paraphrasing gemora Kidushin – every person should think that the world vote is 50% exactly and his own vote will decide … small print tosfos: this offer is valid for 30 days for residents of PA, MI, WI, NC, GA, NV, AZ. Does not apply in any other states, countries, or planets.
philosopher> … Ashkenazi rabbonim recognized that the reality of Zionism is not bad for frum Jews. Yes, secular Zionism has led many Jews astray
you always need to consider the alternative – not ideal, but realistic one. Same Jews who were “led astray by Z” would have alternatively assimilated in America; would have died in Germany; or became communism victims or, worse, propagators, in USSR. At least, grandchildren of Zionists have a high chance to be Jewish, live among Jews, and be exposed to observant Jews (see kiruv thread :), but more importantly, their chances of teshuva highly depend on what they see among religious Jews they observe.
ads are often personalized based on your web browsing history – by the ad agency, not YWN.
So, either your female family members are shopping for socks on the same computer or your own browsing history makes the ad software think that you might be interested in those pictures. In the latter case, something to think about during asara yomei teshuva.
For example, I search for Bandera in CR – there are only 3 mentions, one by a current poster, and the other two have same couple of sentences in a row in different months of 2022. I doubt that this is part of a campaign. Most likely, they both copied these sentences without attribution from something that google helped them find.
fandango > Chances are someone on here is posting on behalf of Russia.
There were a number of posters who posted strong pro-Russian bias and sudden knowledge of Ukrainian history with words picked up from translated Soviet textbooks. I even saw such messages in random divrei Torah from established Rabbis, like mentioning memoirs describing “ukrainian nazis” who were prosecuting someone in Nazi camps … Hard to say though – whether a poster is a real russian troll paid in rubles as described in the indictment you referred to, or a result of this virus propagating through the community on- and off-line. It might be also that we notice such things sharper than in usual times.
I have heard that even CR has some gilgulim appearing under a different user name, trying to accomplish what they could not before.
modern, note that all D- Presidents and VPs are “pro-Israel”, while being in a fight with duly elected Israeli PM – and his policies. I don’t think we have such relationship often with allies, such as European countries. They are basically saying – we are your friends when you do what we tell you to. This is, of course, better than outright hostility. Still, no wonder that every time they say – yes, Israel has a right to defend itself BUT … this encourages antisemites in their activities. As just reported, Trump simply called Bibi and said – congrats on your battle successes. There is a lot of value of having clarity that someone is on your side in the battle.
Neville > is the only true Litvisher left on the CR
Lita had a lot of learning and contemplative nature, but not much of luxuries and attractive external culture. No wonder, (true) Litvishe approach is not popular in this country. Even in Lakewood (where the lake does look like Lithuanian lakes, so this is possibly why first Litvakim settled there and attracted R kotler) – an insider wrote decades ago that the place is “litvishe rebbeim with hunarishe students”//
jdf, think western europe and USA where assimilation was in mid 1800 already.
here are news from Dec 2016 – ISIS weakened but a long road ahead …
In recent days Islamic State also claimed responsibility for an attack that killed at least 10 people in Jordan, and authorities in Australia said they disrupted an Islamic State Christmas plot.
U.S. and Iraqi officials say Islamic State’s turn toward terrorism and departure from once hopeful calls for migration to the caliphate is a signal of a weakening organization.
To governments that have supported the fight against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, however, a weakened insurgency poses great danger.
“That is still a serious problem for intelligence and law enforcement,” a senior American official said. “Making sure that we are protecting our homelands and citizens.”
keith> you are incorrect. He is the one who authorized our military to fight and destroy ISIS
I agree. One change was rule of engagement: under Obama, every strike required high-level approvals and often spent hours with white house lawyers confirming what can be hit. Trump delegated local commanders to make decisions, so targets were found and hit with no delay. I am sure there was collateral damage, and some misbehaviors came to light, but the ISIS nightmare ended.
Google trends shows growth of word ISIS in April 2014 and decline Sep 2017.
But I suggest we can do a simple test – look at pre-election, or pre-Trump inauguration news and see what they were forecasting for ISIS? This would be a good educational experience.
philosopher > When people marry they know (or should know) the hashkafah and leanings of the person they are marrying.
Exactly. So, this means that in most cases, there will be no serious disagreement
> . If you choose to marry someone you can’t fight the choices that automatically go along with it.
Same, so we agree here. I would only take an issue with the word “fight”. I would suggest a discussion and some research first. You kind of imply that both partners have their entrenched positions and it will be unbecoming of a litvishe mama to try influence her hasid husband… I think we are (unfortunately?) beyond having fights between two clear paths nowadays – we have tens of choices everywhere, starting with amazon shopping, and we get same in chinuch. So, a lot of research might be required to make the right decision and having two adults approaching it together would be beneficial for the kids.
I think I brought this story before, I think it serves as a good illustration. R Chaim Soloveichik’s son Moshe was Rav of the town in a chabad-majority town, and he hired a chabad tutor for his son, future R YB. RYBS fondly recalled later in life (in a letter to a chabad T’Ch who sent his book for a haskomah) about nigunim, stories, shabbos atmosphere, and Alter Rebbe portrait looking at him … At some point, the MOTHER quizzed the kid and discovered that he learns stories instead of Gemora and advised the FATHER, who became RYBS only teacher (AKA homeschooling). Later on, he learnt with R Chaim Ozer in Vilna, including when visiting from his university studies in Berlin. How is that for the mother’s role.
philosopher, Belzer rebbe was also regretful of his pre-war advice to stay in Europe … so, it seems that he recognized value of zionist enterprise post facto.
Somejew, you are simply inviting a continuous lashon hara asking me for names, so I am not going to post them, as they were posted here repeatedly.
And you are debating as if this is MSNBC debate between two sides, each of them trying to fool another. This is totally treif. Don’t throw around half-truths and expect others to contribute. If you want to make a serious argument, then bring both sides and explain why you think one position is preferred to others.
As philosopher points out, many of quoted rabonim had non-extreme positions. Maybe we need to define the terms better. Opposing zionist emigration before WW1 is different from opposing it before WW2 and agreeing to vote v. finding value in a state or promoting that state, etc.
For example, one famous Rav who supported Mizrachi movement in general, harshly rebuked the US rabbinical organization that distributed mizrachi writings about how to celebrate yom haatzmaut, etc – saying that people should not confuse what comes from a political organization with rabbinical guidance.