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Gofish, I do not see the irony. I did not comment on all Chareidim or MOs. “There are” only means that some are like that.
Popa, were your RY’s objections halachic (some claim that there is a problem of asmachta) or hashkafic (some say that one should not go into marriage thinking about divorce)?
Zahavasdad, why are you generalizing? There are Chareidim who get along very well with others and MOs who are intolerant. In fact, I was unfriended by an MO because I dared to ask for sources that there is supposedly no problem of kol isha. Of course, I was accused of intolerance,as is the way with leftists (kol ha posel b’mumo posel).
MLK,
1. If it touches issues which he must keep (e.g. gezel) one may teach him.
2. There are situations where it is permissible to ask a goy to do something. There are also situations where it is not but one may ask a goy to ask another goy. You should ask a rav. You should also learn the halachot both tho know what you may and may not do and to know when you have a question and how to ask it.
Regarding the issue of lights, it is my understanding that you can ask him to skim through a book or magazine and tell you what he thinks. After he turns on the light for himself you can tell him not to turn it off. If the light is fluorescent it is easier as lighting it according to most opinions is d’rabbanan.
Both Rabbenu Becahye and the Gra on ch. 3 of Pirkei Avot say that someone who does not know seven secular fields (Astronomy, Measurement, Physics, Geology, Logic, Music and Psychology cannot be called a sage and will be seventy times lacking in Torah. Rambam counts studying Astronomy as one of the Taryag mitzvot and says that studying Math and Physics prepares one’s mind to learn Toah.
Why can’t shuls enforce dress codes? Even places of public accommodation have dress codes such as no entrance to men who are not wearing ties. Offices and schools, even public schools, have dress codes. Shuls have even more authority as they are not only private bu religious organizations.
You can certainly tell them about the sheva mitzvot. While not everyone agrees the Rema (Teshuva 10) says that they must adopt all of Choshen Mishpat so you can tell them about the laws of neighbors, torts, etc.
I would think several times before telling them about the CR as the multiplicity of opinions might confuse them (unless they have legal minds) and the lack of civility might turn them off.
Neville, to whom did Chazal cater when they instituted the ketuba, which is essentially a pre–nup?
Joseph, India? Perhaps the world center of avoda zara. As Zahavasdad pointed, the gedolim say what the askanim want them to say. It can also be pikuach nefesh. When Rav Eliashiv reached a compromise with the government on moving remains he was stoned.
Joseph, if the CC said that he was referring to the anti-religious stream. In fact, when a speaker at the first Aguda convention disparaged Rav Kook he walked out in protest. As for gedolim criticizing Rav Kook (@Mlk), what else is new? THe Raavad sharply criticized Rambam and Rambam sharply criticized Rashi (without naming him) for his statement regarding the geniza of Sefer Refuaot. The Maharshal also sharply criticized gedolim. See Chavat Yair Responsa 152 regarding this tendency.
MLK,
1. When Rav Kook made that statement women’s suffrage was very rare. Rav Kook’s points were that he considered it immodest (see Levush, Likutei Minhagim 36 that this is relative to the time and place) and would disrupt shelom bayit (apparently the voting in question was not by secret ballot).
2. I do not know who this Rabbi Shapiro is. If you are talking about the “Kook shmook” libel, I asked an acquaintance of mine who is a talmid of Rav Gorelik. He said that he never heard him say it iand does not believe that he ever said it. It is also inconceivable that the CC, who literally wrote the book, would accept derogatory information and make a comment to others on the basis of a newspaper article. The only possibility is that the CC was dismissing the article. See what his son-in-law Rav Aharon HaKohen had to say (available on-line).
3. What about all the gedolim who supported it? The Netziv, Rav Meir Simcha, Rav Shlomo HaCohen of Vilna, Rav Soloveichik, Rav Shlomo Zalman (BTW, as a bachur he was a regular at Rav Kook’s seuda shelisheet and RK was his mesader kiddushin – Rav Elaishiv said that Rav Kook was a gaon olam and when someone brought the chief editor of the Encyclopedia Talmudit to a din Torah for firing him after he excluded RK from an article RE said that he too would have fired him), etc. In any case, I have already pointed out that we now know that Rav Kook was right. If you cannot be of help in making things better at least stay out of the way.
Froggie, he was a giant of a man but so was Rav Kook and he also had ruach hakodesh. However, even the nevi’im did not se clearly and the chozim even less so (see the Gra at the beginning of Sefer Yeshayahu). In their time it was a valid machloket as to the future of the Zionist enterprise. The British were in firm control of EY and much more inclined to support the Arabs. The Zionists had no country backing them. Even many politically influential Jews were anti-Zionist because they saw it as a threat to their status as British, Americans, French or (before the rise of Naziism) Germans. However, with 20-20 hindsight we see that Rav Kook was right.
Mik, you are forgetting that there is also religious Zionism. Even secular Zionists, as Rav Kook (who was a gadol) pointed out, were Hashem’s tools. If you want more gedolim in favor of Zionism how about the Netziv, Rav Shlomo HaCohen of Vilna (who greeting Herzl with a sefer Torah in his arms) and Rav Meir Simcha (who personally contributed to the JNF). As for the Chofetz Chaim, he was not anti-Zionist. In fact, he had planned to make aliya to Petach Tikva (which was founded a a Zionist settlement)but for some reason could not. He was only opposed to anti-religious sentiments among some Zionists.
In any case, the State of Israel is a fact. The only question is whether we are going to do our part to advance the Geula and bury our heads in the sand or worse support the enemies of Am Yisrael as do certain apikorsim.
AY, in “Aderet Eliahu” the Gra says that these types are:
1- Those that create strife and talk Lashon haRa
2- Those who pursue their desires
3- The swindlers who pretend to be Tzaddikim but their hearts are not straight.
4- Those who pursue honor and build great synagogues to make a name for
themselves
5- Those who pursue money and strife
He also says that the sin of the spies will attach itself to many who hold on to the Torah.
Huju, Obama called our presence in the heart of our land occupation.
Prof, the Gemara does say that but we do not pasken it. In any case, according to the position of the gedolim you cited only secular Zionism would be apikorsut. The question is what they would think of frum Jews who prevented Israel’s establishment as a Torah state by not coming when they could.
Akuperma, if one holds that it is an aveira to establish a Jewish state in EY someone who supports Zionism because of various advantages is a mumar l’teiavon. According to your definition of apikorsut If you hold that it is a mitzva anti-Zionism is apikorsut. Of course, one could simply say that it is a legitimate machloket and neither are apikorsim.
Parodies of avoda zara are a mitzva.
Joseph, Rav Schach strongly opposed discrimination against the Eidot HaMizrach. What do you think he would have done if he were on the court?
AY, he who pays the piper gets to call the tune. You cannot take money on the one hand and insist on no conditions on the other hand. Of course, you can argue that some particular condition is unreasonable but the public has the general right to verify that it is getting the product for which it is paying. This is no different a potential wealthy donor inquiring into the policies of an institution he is asked to support. For example, it is highly doubtful that a Satmar chassid would donate to a school that has the prayer for the State of Israel in it’s tefilla, celebrates Yom HaAtzmaut, etc.
Wrong again (so far you are batting .000), Joseph. The electric company was originally a Zionist enterprise established by Pinchas Rutenberg. Phone service has indeed been privatized for decades but the infrastructure is provided through eminent domain. Trash colection ad stret lights are provided by municipalities, which receive a good part of their money from the Ministry of the Interior. In fact, Chareidi extremists increase the trash problems by starting fires – in their own neighborhoods – to protest something they do not like.
American Yerushalmi, the daat Torah is not of the gedolim but of the katanim who surround them like medieval courtiers. They control whom the gedolim see and what information they receive. One gadol (out of respect and I will not mention his name) even stated explicitly that he signs what “his rabbis” sign. The fact that he is not alone was proven by the banning of books in English by gedolim who do not know English and without interviewing the author. In some cases their have even been forgeries. Their is one tzedaka request that shows a picture of Rav Kanievsky purportedly learning from a sefer. A close examination shows in to be a New Testament (obvious a Photoshop job).
1. The money the US government is “giving” (how much is actually in the form of loan guarantees) is far less than what it would have to spend to maintain a sufficient presence in a Mid East without Israel. Moreover, the amount that Israel must spend in America is beinggradually raised until it is almost the full amount of the aid.
2. Chareidim who do not believe in the State should not take money from it.
3. What do you mean by “influence the policy”? Are there officials who insist on giving shiurim? As for welfare payments to Chareidim, the government has every right to insist that they undergo job training and register for placement according to their abilities. Obligations must be mutual. If the public has an obligation to help poor people (which it does)individuals have an obligation to do their best not to be a burden on the public (which they do). Thus the government has every right to send inspectors to check (without prior warning) if the number of learners registered is, in fact, the number who are actually learning. It also has the right, through the Chief Rabbinate, to insist on exams in order to verify that it is getting the product for which it pays.
A friend of mine who has diabetes said that she looked like he has felt after an attack. This would explain why she was fine not long after going to her daughter’s apartment – she received the food and rest she needed. If this is correct it would not disqualify her for the Presidency but lying about it is a symptom of a serious character flaw.
HaLeiVi, please cite your source. Science and Math are, in fact, necessary for learning Gemara. The sugya regarding the minimum shiur of a round sukka is a case in point.
As for studying Kabbala, Rav Ashlag differentiates between taamei mitzvot and practical Kabbala, which is only for those who have mastered Shas and poskim and reached a very high level of observance. However, in any case, that Zohar seems to say that one who is not ready will be prevented. When Rabbi Hiyya was a bachur he wanted to join Rabbi Shimon and Rabbi Eliezer but a wall of fire surrounded their house. There are also stories about people falling asleep as soon as the shiur started and waking up as soon as it was over. Interestingly, the Maharshal was very upset when he heard that the Arizal, who was his grand-nephew, had begun to learn Kabbala. He wrote him a very harsh letter in which he threatened to put him in cherem. The Arizal wrote back very respectfully explaining why he had done so.
So far as I know the only English translation was put out by a known apikoros. Some say that the translation is correct but say that the page with the name of his organization should be removed. If you read Hebrew, there are reputable Hebrew translations as well as commentaries such as the “Sulam” and “Metok miDevash”.
Flatbusher, a judge is not supposed to represent the interests of a particular community. That is the job of politicians.
Joseph, Rav Yaakov Ariel said (and paskened for some l’maaseh)that it is a mitzva for a judge who knows how to go about bringing more Jewish law into Israeli law (and, in fact, many judges do cite Jewish law and some laws establish principles of Jewish law into civil law) to do so. Moreover, Israeli judges can refer litigants to mediation or arbitration (secular courts here are extremely congested and judges try to pass on cases as much as possible) and some have referred them to battei din. In the US this is more problematic because of the separation of religion and state although not impossible (both Earl Warren and Antonin Scalia cited Jewish sources in their opinions). As for a Jewish judge presiding over a civil court see “Serving as Judge in Secular Courts” (on-line). I heard of a case where a frum judge reprimanded two Chassidic groups for not taking their case to a din Torah.
The Tzitz Eliezer (9:50 – http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14508&st=&pgnum=208) citing the Terumat HaDeshen is meikal as today women commonly walk in the street. Similarly, the Levush (Likutei Minahgim 36) defends the practice in his time of mixed seating at weddings by saying that being that men and women do business together (already over 400 years ago) men do not consider being in the presence of women a big deal. In my experience, in the centers of cities it is not possible as a practical matter to completely refrain from walking behind a women.
Lilmod ulelamaid, I would add a caveat to your caveat. Many times whether or not something is permitted depends on custom and can vary from place to place, time to time or community to community. Tzeniut is an example. To cite two examples that have been discussed in the CR, in some communities it is unacceptable for women to drive and in others it is not. In some calling someone by his/her first name is considered closeness whereas in others it is not. One can also add the issue of wigs.
In some cases the copyright has expired. This varies from country to country. According to the opinion that the issur is only because of dina d’malchuta this apparently would also apply. Some poskim say that it is a derivative of hassagat gevul (@Yekke) and that the Halacha itself does give proprietary rights to intellectual property. There are a number of articles on-line about this issue.
Lilmod ulelamaid, how do you know? are you making an assumption based on your definition of “religious”? If so, that is very sad.
Learn “Messilat Yesharim”. First make sure that you keep the basic Halacha (zerizut and nekiut) then think about chumrot. Be especially careful about ben adam l’chavero and chillul Hashem (i.e. dealings with non-frum Jews, gentiles and the government). The fact that none of the above commenters has mentioned these matters is extremely disturbing.
It is empirically true that one can have several successful marriages (widow/er). The Zohar discusses zivug rishon and sheini (not necessarily in chronological order).
CTl, your answer is an enigma. If the marriages were successful then they were maintained for at least the life of one of the partners. Unless you mean that they were successful and getting a woman to agree, which I do not think is the subject of this thread.
Joseph, are you a PA troll?
I half agree with Ben Levi. What is important is not the actual age of world but why Chazal took the trouble to calculate it. For dating legal documents we could have stuck with the minyan hashetarot – which the Yemenites still use.
Joseph, it depends on what one means by “the world”. There is a midrash that says that Hashem created and destroyed worlds before this. The Torah also says that Adam’s body was created and only later did he receive a “living soul” (according to Onkelos the power of speech.In fact, according to archaeological evidence writing has only been in existence for a little over 5,000 years so perhaps 5,776 is from the time people were raised above the animals. this si the world as we know it.
As for Rav Eliashiv, with all due respect there are other poskim. Perhaps the “halacha” (I find it difficult to write that about a non-legal matter) is not like him.
Joseph, Rashi does not say that or even hint that. He says that it was not called the first day to show that there was only Hashem. In fact, it could not have been a day as we know it as the Sun was not created until the fourth day. Actually, the word “yom” can also mean “time period” (e.g. bayom hahu”). In English we also say things like “in those days”.
These are all not funny but cruel. They are a violation of “v’ahavta l’rei’eicha kemocha”, geneivat daat and onaat devarim for starters.
Lilmod ulelamaid, the question is whether or not the dog knows that.
lilmod ulelamaid, as soon as it barks you’re supposed to say
“???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????”.
As a mater of fact, Menachem Begin and his family were adopted by a stray dog while he was hiding from the British. The dog barked whenever British soldiers or police were near the house.
Dov, if they do it right that will keep them very busy. Most of Orech Chaim and Even HaEzer. All of Choshen Mishpat and Yoreh Deah. Not to mention Mussar and Emuna so that it is not just an intellectual exercise.
Sparkly, she mentioned on another thread that she is married so she is a woman.
Rambam Hilchot Melachim
5:1
??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????:
7:4
???? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??”? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??????:
Abba, if they are ignorant of secular subjects about the only jobs they can get is flipping burgers. If someone is not learning at a very high level where he has a Torah obligation to go into the IDF according to his physical abilities and intellectual talents (e.g. some people can go into Intelligence and learn computer technology while they are at it). Someone who is has an obligation to pass on his Torah. I would have these guys give shiurim to the solders. At the very least they should dedicate their learning to the success and well-being of the soldiers. Of course, it could be that they do not really believe that their learning has supernatural powers. This was evident during the first Gulf War when chutznikim stormed the airports for flights back to the Galut. It was proven again when missiles fell on the South and Chariedi (but not RZ) yeshivot relocated.
Abba,
1. On the contrary, they want to break the cycle of Chareidi poverty.
2. Unfortunately, Affirmative Action exists in government jobs. It is called “reparatory discrimination”. However, all discrimination is destructive. Why should someone who was never guilty of discrimination have to suffer? Moreover, the fact that there is a certain percentage is the population does not mean that they are the same percentage of qualified people. In fact, the Chareidi sector is less qualified because of the stubborn refusal to study secular subjects, especially Math, Science and Engish (needed in Hi-Tech). Unfortunately, the Chareidi “leadership” learned from the socialists that he way to keep people voting for the party is to keep them dependent.
Joseph, from your attitude we got Yushki (Gittin 90a and Iggeret Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai).
Abba,
1. There is a mitzva to join the IDF as I have posted many times.
2. Yesh Atid does not want to draft those who are really
learning. However, there are many guys who are registered but are just wasting time as they are not suited for full-time life-long learning. They should be drafted and later put in professional training programs. This will not only alleviate the tremendous cycle of poverty in the Chareidi sector but allow for real learners to receive decent stipends. Not to mention the fact that with the growth of the Chareidi sector as a percentage of the general population Israel cannot afford a blanket exemption from military service and work.
3. IMHO, the new erev rav are the post-Zionists and anti-Zionists of all stripes. They are doing exactly what the old ones did.
Comlink, the Chassidic movement started as a populist movement that told those who were marginalized because of their ignorance that they could be good Jews even if they were unlearned. Ironically it became highly stratified in a way that the yeshiva world had never been. For all its shortcomings (and it has many), OO, IMHO, is trying also trying to keep marginalized Jews from going completely OTD. However, like the Chassidic movement it needs an opposition to show it where it is going too far. Hopefully it will merit a leader who will realize this.
Abba, I do not have the exact citation right now but I believe that Chazal say that they were slaves from other nations who saw an opportunity to break free. Why should Egyptians who were disillusioned with paganism leave to join another religion and immediately try to undermine it?
Abba, the erev rav (please try and get this right – as I have previously posted the eruv rav is the rav hamachshir of the eruv) were a mixed group of slaves from various nations. The Messianic Jews are by and large people who were born Jewish and practice a hybrid of Judaism and Xtianity, much like the minim in Chazal’s time.
Comlink, the early Chassidim were guilty of many excesses. Sefer Yaakov Yosef denigrates talmidei chachamim in the most extreme language. One “rebbe” drank in public in the middle of Yom Kippur claiming that he saw through ruach hakodesh that the gates of Heaven had already closed. They ignored the zemanei tefilla. For these and other deviations the Gra put them in cherem. The Baal HaTanya and others after him brought back over the line. BTW, Rav Kook says that this is the function of opposition to new movements in general.
Miriam the Women’s Hair Stylist (a.k.a Mary Magdalene) went OTD because her husband was overly strict about this (Gittin 90a).
The footsteps are from all the walking to check the eruv.
Joseph, “much” obviously varies according to time, place and community. See the Levush in the likutim that even in his time women were involved in business dealings with men. Apparently Beruria also went out and about from time to time (Eruvin 53b).
Joseph, If the Americans and English are two peoples separated by a common language how much more so Yiddish speakers. When a Galitzianer says ‘Elokeini” a Litzvak thinks that he is saying “My Gd”. For that matter, Yiddish has many loan words from whatever is the local language. In fact, Ruchama Shain commented in “All for the Boss” that when she returned to NY form mir her relatives did not understand her son’s Polish Yiddish as they spoke American Yiddish.
Ben Levi, Ponevich has many Chassidic talmidim and even waives the no beards rule for Chassidic bachurim (Litvaks consider it haughty for a bachur to have a beard). Rav Schach was very much opposed to ethnic discrimination.
JF, there are many mixed minyanim. In fact, my weekday Shacharit minyan goes according whatever the Shatz davens. If there is a pinch hitter in the middle it switches.