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CTLawyer,
Would I be wrong in assuming that the state law mandating marriage counseling (and the counselors themselves) do not consider “saving” the marriage to be the goal, but rather that the divorce process is more amicable?
Enough Divorces,
DY, actually I’m saying that there is no right and wrong, but rather that in every conflict both sides contribute (regardless of percent ratios), so both sides are both right and wrong.
This is a dangerously wrongheaded sentiment. If, for example, one spouse is unfaithful, or verbally or physically abusive, the fact that the other spouse leaves dirty dishes in the sink sometimes, or socks on the floor sometimes, or has brief moments of insensitivity or reactivity, is irrelevant to the actual conflict that is tearing the marriage apart. All spouses have these moments, because everyone is human, yet healthy marriages are largely unaffected by them. To put minor and normal flaws on the same pedestal as unhealthy, destructive behavior in some inane effort to ensure nobody’s precious feelings are hurt and that there is “no right and wrong” (?!!!) will do nothing but provide justification for the spouse engaging in the destructive behavior to continue.
Meno,
When your wall gets dislodged from your house and crashes into your neighbor’s living room, they’ll be able to read it then.
chananya,
I’ve never received answers to the following questions that drive a stake right through this propaganda:
I don’t consider myself a proponent of age gap or any other theory. As a “BT” with young children, I have little personal experience with these issues. Your questions (challenges), however, don’t seem to drive a stake through anything.
1. Proponents of this theory inevitably believe in the concept of a bashert and that God created a soul-mate for every person born. So how do they explain from a theological perspective how God could possibly be responsible for a demographic imbalance, as only He could be?
I would guess that proponents of the age gap theory would agree that everyone has a designated besheret, but that personal and communal behavior may prevent people from finding their besheret.
2. How is it moral and ethical for a shadchan to suggest anything other than the most suitable match for her client, and instead let a presumed demographic issue factor into her matchmaking?
I would guess that proponents of the age gap theory would answer that shadchanim are already not suggesting suitable matches for their clients due to societal constraints.
3. How is it moral and ethical for a shadchan to hide from singles that they are influenced by outside factors?
I would guess that proponents of the age gap theory would reply that their advocacy is intended to highlight and tamp down outside influences that are already at play.
4. If it is true that women are at such a terrible disadvantage, why are women so quick to turn down suitors, often for the most trivial reasons? That is hardly the behavior one would expect from people who are supposedly competing for a mate from an endangered species. Did single women fail to get this memo?
1. It seems demeaning to state that “women” turn down suitors often for trivial reasons. Maybe they seem trivial to you, but to them their reasons may not be. And remember that we are discussing teenagers or early 20-somethings.
2. I would imagine that many women would prefer no marriage to a horrible one.Again, the next person who directly and pointedly responds to these questions instead of insulting me and claiming I lack mathematical acumen will be the very first.
I tried my best.
It really depends on how the laptop is intended to be used. To me, 15” is the biggest a device can be while still being easily portable. It’ll still fit into most backpacks, and there are many models out there that aren’t too heavy. I have a 14” laptop and feel it’s the perfect size for me – a balance between a good amount of screen real estate, yet easily portable since I take it on the go all of the time. A 17” laptop provides an excellent screen size for multi-tasking, but you lose portability. A device that size will be heavy, and will not easily fit into a backpack. If the laptop will be sitting on a desk most of the time, I’d go for the 17”. If you want to take it with you out of the house, or even from room to room, seriously consider a 15”.
Writing out “whatever” is such a dad thing to do. Kids these days write U+1F644
chabadgal,
The issue with smartphones isnt that theyre necessarily bad, it is that they are new.
Technically, if you dont trust yourself with a smartphone, you shouldnt trust yourself with having chicken and cheese in your fridge together, shoudnt trust yourself with having electricity in your house during shabbos etc.Smartphones are very different from chicken and cheese. Smartphones have only been around since 2007, but they have already caused massive cultural changes; affecting the way people interact with others, how they ingest and consume information, and how they raise children. There are undeniably some benefits to the technology: it’s a lot harder to get lost while traveling, there’s a lot of information to learn right at your fingertips, etc. But undeniably the devices have a tremendous psychological impact, even before we get to the yetzer hara issues DaasYochid mentioned. And we don’t even know the impact.
Cars have many benefits, but would you trust a driver who takes it for a spin but can barely see out the windshield?
chabadgal,
There is nothign wrong with that. They didnt force anyone to buy it. You wouldnt complain if they were selling cases for $5 so why are you complaining if it is $42.
It’s not so simple. This is an emergency situation, and many people cannot simply access another source of water – either they are flooded out of their homes or their utility water is contaminated. And with massive power outages, currency becomes more limited to cash, making it harder for some to pay, even if they had credit or debit cards.
To take another tack, imagine if right before Sukkos, the stores selling esrogim in a town got together and decided to up the price to something ridiculous, effectively insuring that large numbers of people in the town would be unable to fulfill the mitzva of arba minim. Would there be “nothing wrong with that”?
The news media is making a big deal out of Tropical Storm Harvey’s second landfall, but in reality this landfall is a good thing because it will lessen the storm’s ability to draw moisture from the Gulf. The storm center being stalled close to the coast or over water is part of why we’ve seen such incredible rainfall accumulations in Texas and Louisiana.
Joseph,
The former is clearly worse than a short-sleeved woman.
Yes, but NOT because of the nursing, but rather the increased exposure in comparison. Less or no exposure, then the immodest dress is worse, even if everyone knows she’s nursing.
Syag Lchochma,
Comparing it to interrupting shmona esrei is beyond apples and oranges.
I did not see the context in which a comparison to interrupting davening was made in this thread, but I learned that a woman is permitted to interrupt her Shemoneh Esrei for her crying baby, although she should first try distractions like snapping fingers.
The two sides could only be”
Nursing in public – COMPLETELY COVERED vs
no nursing in public – even tho you are COMPLETELY COVEREDanyone implying that tznius allows for exposure is probably either pushing an agenda or having some parenting struggles
I agree that those are the two positions in this argument that would be consistent with a frum lifestyle, and will place myself in the former camp (with caveats). That said, I have a big problem with the attitude and motives of a shopping mall storekeeper who has no problem with immodestly dressed women wandering his store, but harasses a mother who is quietly nursing her child. To me, the discrepancies in the response of such a storekeeper is reflective of a perverse culture. And people like the storekeeper are the reason so many states have laws protecting nursing mothers in the first place.
Joseph,
Avram, someone not infected with the perverse mores of secular society would consider a woman in a short sleeve shirt in public as severely worse than a woman publicly nursing in the open?
Provided we are not talking about a “wild eyed” activist as Gadolhadorah described above, yes. Most women, Jewish or not, are uncomfortable nursing in a public place, and try to do so as discreetly as possible. One would have to be invading her space terribly to see anything problematic. There is no flaunting going on. If airports, restaurants, waiting rooms, etc. had clean, comfortable, and private nursing spaces available, I think the vast majority of mothers would happily take advantage of them.
Gadolhadorah,
Even among non-frum women, most will seek to discreetly nurse even in public
This speaks to the need for private nursing spaces in public places. In a society that cherishes children, it’s as necessary as the necessary, and those spaces should not be in the necessary.
apushatayid,
I’m sure there is plenty of medical literature about the dangers of holding oneself back from reliving themselves, yet, noone will advocate doing so in the middle of the mall or in front of others in a restaurant.
1. Bad comparison – the activities you reference leave behind foul and potentially infected waste products. Even if modesty were completely removed from the equation, those activities would still be forbidden in public areas and food service facilities. Nursing leaves behind no waste.
2. Most public and private spaces provide ample access to facilities for taking care of those needs. Although increasing, most public and private spaces provide little to no facilities for nursing.
3. There is no comparison between the immodest exposure of your examples and the little to no exposure from nursing. Immodest dress is way worse, but due to a misogynistic and anti-child secular culture, many people are nonsensically more offended by nursing.The discussion is not, should a woman be allowed to nurse in public areas, of course she should, the only discussion is, should government legislate that they be properly covered while doing so.
If the government is to begin legislating public modesty, dress codes would be a much higher priority than nursing mothers. Except that secular culture is insane.
Joseph,
You fail to see a difference in severity between exposing what you suggested and what I suggested?
Sorry, only someone woefully infected with the perverse mores of secular society would believe that a mother nursing “publicly” is worse than someone immodestly dressed.
Joseph,
Appealing to authority (i.e. Torah authorities) in an argument is the correct and proper way to argue Jewish issues and issues affecting Jews.
Absolutely. But it doesn’t mean anyone has to listen to bogus misinterpretations of what the Torah authorities have said.
akuperma,
The myth that is agreed on
Who agrees? All evidence to the contrary that there is any agreement.
is that the southern rebels were an honorable opponent (and ignoring that slavery was the major issue), and after the war we all became friends again.
The effects of the Civil War are still deeply felt in the U.S.
The alternative to the myth is to let the old wounds fester.
The wounds are very much festering. Have you never opened your eyes and looked at this country?
One doesn’t want losers to go around with a chip on their shoulder
You obviously have not visited the South.
OP (use a capital G),
Recently, our communities have begun to recognize and accept drug abuse, alcoholism, and narcotics abuse.
What do you mean by accept? To consider it a problem that requires treatment?
Why is it that food addiction is not becoming accepted? Why are people being shunned for being overweight while it sometimes isn’t their fault -as they are addicted?
I think drug addicts and alcoholics are shunned much more than overweight people, even though the first two are increasingly being recognized as potential sufferers from mental health issues who require treatment. Alcohol and drug abuse has a profoundly destructive impact on not just the person, but those around him. Weight issues or food addiction also has a negative impact, but not anywhere near the same degree. So yes, food addiction or compulsive eating requires treatment, and can be tricky to treat because we cannot just quit food, but it’s not as much of a “crisis” as other addictions.
Lilmod Ulelamaid,
Does he really hold of the hashkafa or is he actually against it and deliberately trying to make it look bad?
I am certain that this happens in the CR, and unfortunately it’s not an uncommon occurrence.
CTLAWYER,
Most white southerners did not own slaves. The average soldier in the Civil War was supporting his state. This was on both sides. The idea of fighting for the country really evolved much later.
1. Just because most white southerners did not own slaves does not mean that they had no opinion on slavery. If you want to know why the 11 southern states seceded from the Union, just read their secession declarations. Enslaved African Americans made up a significant percentage of the southern population, particularly in South Carolina, and non-slaveholding whites feared the impacts of emancipation or a slave revolt.
2. How can you say that the idea of fighting for the country evolved much later when Lincoln’s rationale for the war was preservation of the Federal Union? And yes, most soldiers fought as part of state regiments, but the cohesive Army of the Potomac was formed by July 1861, early in the war, after the need for a large, unified and well trained army became clear following the debacle at Bull Run.Syag Lchochma,
Hatzola members would be trained to handle such a situation
Gadolhadorah,
Hatzola members are trained extensively on how/when to intervene in domestic abuse situations, including when to summon police or other first responders
That’s good information to know.
Health,
In the OP’s case, there probably is the option of calling Hatzolah, which is preferable, in this case!
Ok, so let’s play it out. Suppose Hatzola agrees to go to your neighbor’s house without clear information on what’s going on. And they arrive in the midst of a potentially dangerous domestic situation, R”L. Or they knock on the door and get no response, but hear disturbing noises inside. What do they do?
Health,
Who said a crime is occuring?
If you don’t know – call EMS!In my area, calling 911 gets you a dispatcher who, based on the information you give, either routes you to medical, fire, or police. Getting to pick which one goes to the neighbors may not be possible. I don’t think EMS wants to show up alone and uninvited in the midst of a potentially dangerous situation.
I doubt a Roomba would survive my house.
Gadolhadorah,
If the minhag in the alte heim when entering the court of a king was to REMOVE your hat or head covering, why is the mesorah to wear a hat when davening to show respect for hashem, melech malchei ha’malachim???
Do you think Judaism originated in Europe? The custom to remove headgear likely originated as a sign of respect/subservience – a knight or warrior removing his helm to show identity, respect, and vulnerability. In ancient Rome on the other hand, covering one’s head showed subservience, which noblemen didn’t like to do, but it happens to be exactly what we are intending to convey by covering our heads before Hashem.
yekke2,
A once in a lifetime experience – here it depends what you find more exhilirating – the thrill of experience, or the thrill of trying to capture it.
Exactly!
DaasYochid,
Gam ki eilech b’gei tzalmaves
I hope the kalla has a good sense of humor if BigGolem goes with this one…
Joseph,
C’mon, Avram. You know you needn’t worry that no one is going to take pictures of a huge celestial event.
That’s because I know that there are many people out there who don’t have your attitude.
If all you need is to insure the event is documented in photography or that you have high res copies of said photographs, you can rely on others without worrying everyone’s going to rely on others or that no one’s going to take terrific pictures.
My guess is that documentation of the event is not what is motivating our friend the Wolf. If you took your family on a road trip and later wanted to make a photo book of the experience, would you just Google a bunch of stock photographs of the places that you visited and send them over to Snapfish?
RebYidd23,
1. If I didn’t know which neighbor, I would judge all of them and hate them forever.
Well, they all hate you forever already because you disturbed them with the shrieking, so they probably don’t care what you think at this point.
2. Different people have different definitions of “shrieking”. It is normal behavior for babies, for example, but I never call the cops on my neighbor who has three screaming babies.
Most people are smart enough to distinguish benign sounds from frightening ones, despite the fact that language can be inexact. If someone says, “I ran inside and locked the door because I heard a growl”, I’m not going to retort, “well maybe it was your stomach growling!” You’re alive today because your ancestors somehow avoided getting eaten by lions.
3. He can just ask the neighbor if he is being abused.
You’d first have to determine which neighbor made the shrieks (assuming they survived).
Joseph,
And you needn’t worry that if you don’t take the pictures no one will.
Note that in my post I wrote, “if everybody had this attitude…”
Would you ask a painter why he’s painting a pastoral scene, since there are thousands of pastoral paintings already?
Lilmod Ulelamaid,
How is this different from a playground rumor?
Do you not see the difference between hearing talk on the playground and personally witnessing a potentially dangerous event?
Syag Lchochma,
My kids used to insist I video or take pictures of certain events in their lives and I always ended up feeling like I missed out. Viewing things through a lens is not the same a being there.
I completely agree, even though I (and the kids) later appreciate having the pictures or video. The difference here in my opinion is that a photographer may view such an event as a good opportunity to take photos. So, if someone is going to South Carolina to witness the eclipse with their own eyes, then a camera might be in the way. But if someone is going to South Carolina to take photos of the eclipse, then to not have the camera would cause him to feel like he missed out. And who cares if thousands of others are doing the same?
DaasYochid,
BTW, if some jerk decides to still pretend you’re invisible (for example, by asking who we’re talking to), just ignore him.
Huh? Did someone ask that in this thread?
🙂
yekke2,
Truth hasn’t stopped anyone arguing in the past.
There’s true, and then there’s GoqTrue™
Joseph,
why not just enjoy direct viewing of the special moment without the distraction of shooting pictures, and download high resolution photographs afterwards of the same darkened sun?
Why do you care how other people choose to enjoy a special moment?
Joseph,
What’s the benefit of taking pictures of your own when there will be thousands of pictures available of the eclipse that will, essentially, be no different than yours?
If everybody had this attitude, then there would be no pictures.
TheGoq,
Thanks all I would like to think its because my posts are not controversial enough to merit response
Or it could be that what you write is frequently true to the point that nobody can argue.
ubiquitin,
The advantage is for these non-emergency visits colds, other minor infections like UTI’s, sprained joints etc, the wait is considerably shorter.
I agree. The flip side of this is that while urgent care clinics are set up to quickly get you out the door with treatments for routine things like ear infections, sinus infections, minor injuries, etc., they are not a replacement for comprehensive medical care. They may not be the best destination for symptoms that are a bit more out of the box, or chronic.
yekke2,
I didn’t read the question that way. To me, he was asking whether there would be any scenarios today which would constitute Mesirah, not whether she believes the Torah came down including a parshah of Mesirah.
That’s a nice spin on the question, but I don’t agree. Here’s why: the question was ridiculous. Not even those who may hold that mesira is “not an issue” in the medina shel chessed would “immediately” call the cops based on a playground rumor. No, the question was meant to be insulting, albeit to dan l’kaf zechus, perhaps unconsciously so.
DaMoshe,
The Steipler zt”l said not to make a brachah, as the Gemara says an eclipse is a siman ra.
Fascinating – why then do we make a bracha on an earthquake, or a rainbow?
akuperma,
They are not a serious threat.
Say that to the fact of any Jew who has been the victim of an anti-Semitic attack. And yes, anti-Semites dwell on the far left as well as the far right. Doesn’t mean white supremacists are not a threat.
They should be seen as similar to the “flat earth” society.
Maybe if flat-earthers were demonstrating with torches with chants of expulsion to the round-earthers.
The American right has long been well intgegratged with non-white and Jews. In the southern states, one finds African Americans being elected with support from the “old stock” (meaning descendants of the Civil War losers) whites. The conservative Christian groups are ethnically and racially integrated.
This is so head-scratchingly wrong that I wonder if you have ever been to the South before.
And if you want to say that you did the same to Joseph, you did not. You asked him to define his own boundary of the gray area. You did not provide him a ridiculous example, like:
Do you believe that there is an issue of not standing by while your neighbor’s blood is shed? When do you think that issue would apply? If I’m in the neighborhood playground and I see Mr X chasing his wife with a kitchen knife screaming, “I will kill you!”, do you think I should immediately call the cops?
mw13,
So, I decided to try asking some specific questions about the gray zones, and about where each of the sides would draw their respective lines.
That’s not at all what you did. You asked a specific question that was way outside of the gray zone, implicitly implying that Syag Lchochma thought it was a gray zone, which had the effect of suggesting that she does not care about halacha.
Suppose there was a thread about chalav stam, and you were arguing that it was acceptable to use chalav stam in some situations. And then I asked you:
Do you believe that there is an issue of kashrus? When do you think that issue would apply? If I’m in a small town at lunchtime and there’s a McDonalds across the street, do you think I should go in there and order a cheeseburger?
Is that a serious question I asked to try and tease out the boundaries of the gray area, or is that me being condescending?
Health,
Your comprehension is failing you – as you get older!
I was then going back to the OP.Sorry, misunderstanding bad writing is not the reader’s fault. If you’re changing subjects, you should state it explicitly. Otherwise, the logical interpretation is that you are still addressing the same subject.
Ugh, I’m having a hard time living up to the expectations of the frum haters. I can’t both wear old, tattered, misfitting clothing, and sport a gaudy suit while parking my Lexus to pay for groceries with by EBT card at the same time.
Gadolhadorah,
Curiosity’s take is correct. You wrote “limited social skills”, which is 100% a value statement, and a disparaging one at that, and then tried to walk it back as cultural differences. No can do.
BTW, the vast majority of inappropriate remarks made in professional workplaces come from people who were educated in public schools and went to co-ed universities. To pass off boorish behavior as somehow a result of a frum upbringing is not only a cheap shot, but wrong.
Gadolhadorah,
Even at home, its best to avoid such commentary since its so easy to frame the comments in a way that is misunderstood or makes the recipient feel uncomfortable.
This is an absolutely terrible piece of marriage advice. It is absolutely essential for each spouse to communicate that the other is dear, cherished, respected, and yes, physically attractive. And understanding is achieved by a miraculous process known as listening and communicating.
dovrosenbaum,
I think society was better in those days. The 60s ruined this country. The only good I see coming out of the civil rights movement was provisions for religious observance in hiring.
Are you conflating the civil rights movement with all of the social upheavals that occurred in the 1960s, or do you yearn for Jim Crow laws?
dovrosenbaum,
There’s a deep attitude in society that’s entering our communities that men are incompetent, men are stupid
Yes, this is true, and very dangerous, for men, women, and children.
It’s ok to degrade men in ways that society would never tolerate with the treatment of women.
That’s a ridiculous statement. You just don’t notice the degradation of women in “society”.
Men are being decimated by this society, and we can thank women’s lib.
Not sure you were intending to use the word decimated here… and I don’t think you can wrap this neatly in a box and blame women’s lib.
They’re stuck in the 50s, and that’s a great thing.
The stereotypical 1950s culture you yearn for, despite being considered “traditional” in ignorant 2017, was actually not traditional at all. Men were not traditionally cut off from their wives and children for long stretches of each day due to long commutes to work; frequently leaving before their kids woke up, and coming home close to bedtime. This disconnect between men and their families, which expanded in the 1950s along with the huge migration to the suburbs, created the underpinning conditions that led to the stereotype of the clueless father. No, the healthy traditional lifestyle is where men worked close to home, and the kids could easily move about between mother and father, learning from and interacting with both. Men could step in and help in the house and women could help their husbands in the field or store when needed.
They learn to the point and don’t waste their time with mental gymnastics in the kollelim.
Calling Torah learning “mental gymnastics” is insulting.
My un-PC comment of the day: I loved Windows 10 for the first month or two that I used it, but now, not so much. Chrome OS will make America great again 🙂