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NE, way to insult everyone in the discussion by saying our values are shaped purely by bias.
I can’t speak for anyobe else, but anyone who knows me would, I believe, not think my life situation puts my interests in the direction of my opinion here.
I similarly don’t think it’s fair to dismiss anyone else’s opinion as based on negius.
It has nothing to do with refusing to pay. By law, there’s a limit to how much it can be raised annually.
Squeak, I’ve seen/heard of a number of married women who tried a career switch to teaching and failed.
There’s an advantage to maturity and life experience, but also an advantage to youthful idealism and nights free to prepare for class.
When you make employment conditional on factors not relevant to the actual job, you limit the number of candidates and lower the overall quality of teachers (Syag might argue that this is relevant to the qualifications for the job, but I disagree).
So sure, you might fill the actual positions, but with less qualified (certainly in the long run) teachers.
What do you think would happen if employment were conditional on staying the year? Would they limit their shidduchim to boys who were maskim to live there until the end of the year? Would they not take the job and stay home?
There might be some who would stay home, but I disagree with your generalization that these girls are simply unambitious. I think many are idealistic, but if teaching wasn’t an option, would go into other fields. Some options off the top of my head: computer programming, web design, therapy, medical billing, marketing.
I’m asking about a situation where there is a conflict.
I’m trying to figure out how far you take your position.
Do you actually have taynas on teachers for getting married and leaving during the school year?
Do you think a teacher should actually turn down a shidduch prospect with a fine bochur who would live out of driving distance of where she teaches?
A top priority, or the top priority?
those who are real teachers, will commit even if they get married
That’s where we disagree. I think someone can be a “real teacher” yet still have the priority of giving herself the best chance of getting married (which might mean committing to move to his location), as Hashem wants her to.
Sorry, yb123, you can discuss priorities, but calling caring about better learning stupidity, for any level learner, is unacceptable.
I think it’s simple demographics. We are b”H growing, so we need more and more teachers, so perforce, we need some inexperienced ones.
If, as you say, those who won’t commit to stay the whole year no matter what shouldn’t teach, they will obviously begin other careers, and that will deplete the supply of teachers. I don’t think forcing them to commit (contractually or morally) benefits klal Yisroel.
I did not mean you specifically, let’s please not make this personal. I’m just trying to frame this in terms of prioritizing, rather than dismissing something as unimportant.
I do think she should make a strong effort to finish the year, but don’t think that should or could be an iron clad commitment.
As far as how much his learning needs to suffer for her achrayus to her students, I think that needs to be decided on a case by case basis.
She is entitled to chose to teach, she is entitled to get married, and at that point, it is not only her decision to make.
Why can’t a newlywed chosson take it upon himself to learn where his kallah is teaching just until she finishes the year?!
Precisely for the reason you said – he might not have the most productive zman.
I know someone who did that (her job wasn’t teaching). The chosson was not being productive, and as I perceived it, it caused sholom bayis issues as well.
Eventually, they moved to Lakewood, and her employer relocated her to their NJ office.
Syag, do you think it is feasible for every unmarried teacher to plan things so that she doesn’t need to leave her job if she gets married? I don’t. I do know of cases where the young couples lived within driving distance of her job until the school year was over. I think this is admirable and proper, but again, not always feasible. I also don’t think it’s feasible or beneficial to have seminary or high school grads wait indefinitely to teach until they’re married.
In the cases you mentioned, they took the entire year off. What if something came up in the middle of the year? I do not think it’s a red herring, I think it demonstrates that we sometimes have to prioritize, even when two things are both extremely important.
Squeak, sure it’s about finances, you just seem to think that schools are over allocating funds towards administration and assistants. In general, I don’t think that’s the case.
Also, there’s still the supply issue. There simply aren’t enough married teachers to staff the schools, and that would only get worse if policy became not to hire single teachers.
Syag, you also said:
me: I said that if you are more worried about yourself than the class of girls you are teaching…
and:
it’s all about shidduchim. to heck with the kids…
It’s a matter of priorities. I don’t think you’d say the same thing if a teacher wouldn’t commit to stay on even if a family member became ill ch”v and she had to take care of her/him.
Because I think marriage is a high priority, I don’t think a girl is in any way unqualified if she teaches and dates, even if the result would be leaving.
Squeak, if the finances weren’t an issue, I’d agree with you in theory. Another point to consider, though: if they didn’t hire single teachers, those young women would find other jobs, and there would be a smaller pool of married women available to teach.
Maternity leave is six weeks, and it does wreak havoc on some students’ years.
If you look at getting married as selfish, you have a great tayna. If you look at it as rotzon Hashem, it’s not so simple. I don’t think it’s fair to call a woman who wants to get married uncommitted to the other responsibilities in her life.
From a practical perspective, if you make employment contingent upon not dating, you’re severely limiting your pool of qualified teachers.
I’m not at all trying to be dismissive of the problem – the students do suffer from the instability. I just don’t think disallowing teachers from getting married is an eitzah.
Fascinating topic, and an important issue. I haven’t yet decided whether to take a humorous, serious, or sarcastic approach.
I am pro color war.
It stands for “found this farshtunkina yokel” which is what they say every time another person signs up.
I would think that a place which blocks other cars would (or at least should) be by definition a tow zone.
The album is available on Mostly Music, Jewish Jukebox, and Safra Judaica.
Also he flip flops
Enough already about his hair! Can’t we talk substance?
You should put your name in it.
No it didn’t.
Let’s start by pointing out, as did crazybrit, that your thread title is offensive.
Do you expect anyone to really disagree with you and think it’s okay to litter? There’s a reason you got so many sarcastic responses. The whole point of this thread was to blast “frum people” for something which although definitely wrong, you are blowing way out of proportion. No one wants to disrespect others or HKB”H, they’re just being careless.
I obviously disagree.
I have a strong disdain for lower phalanges.
Yekke2, disturbed? That’s a pretty strong word to use about something R’ Moshe wrote.
Anyhow, he didn’t say the taivah isn’t real, he said it comes from a different place than the regular taivos.
Newbee, sure popa is over the top, but his extreme post is a nice balance to yours.
We’re not dolty twits. We’re twitty dolts.
Lol golfer.
No, I’ve never actually seen it, and I don’t know if I’d actually boycott an establishment if I saw it. It would make me think twice, though.
Okay, so your local grocery carries a more expensive version of what, to you, is the same product. So either pay the extra few cents, or stock up next time you’re in a different store. I don’t see why this is such a big deal to you.
I don’t understand why you have an issue with Twizzlers. As you said yourself, nobody is forcing you to buy them, or stopping you from buying the ones with a single hechsher.
The reason some people prefer the ones with another hechsher is so that they know these are produced with the standards of both hechsherim, but you need not concern yourself with that if you don’t want to. Just go somewhere else and buy the regular ones.
I agree with that. I’m personally most comfortable with a dual hechsher, the OU for the reasons you said, and a “heimish” hechsher (not all, some – some are weak and I don’t like to rely on those) for their higher standards.
There is a kosher candy company which uses two brands. When the product is of a higher standard, it carries an OU and one of the better heimishe hechsherim. When the product is of a lower kashrus standard, they package it with a different brand name, carrying an OU and a weaker heimishe hechsher.
ZD, there are many more shailas in kashrus than just the ones you mention.
The same way you understand that there are different standards for tuna and beef, there are also different standards for dozens and dozens of other products.
What was the point of the Hebrew National story? To show that the OU plays politics?
No, fun a a kasha shtarbn nisht. There are plenty of true maasim with kashas on them.
Well, CA, this one was about me.
What’s “Camp Bnos of Borough Park”?
I heard the story again (again second hand) from a totally different source.
ZD, nisht is right. It is designed to make a mockery out of Yiddishkeit. But you had an issue with Twizzlers without mixing in the issue of YCT.
If you want, I’ll rephrase: you have a hangup about stickers and multiple hechsherim. You’re wrong for the simple reason that nobody is forcing anyone to get the extra hechsher or to purchase those products. It’s a business decision on the part of the product’s manufacturer, distributor and stores, because some consumers want it.
I also can’t fathom your hangup with Twizzlers. You can buy the ones without a sticker. I’m sure there are non Jews and non from Jews who are upset at having to pay for the OU, and they don’t even have the option of buying without, but that’s capitalism – Hershey’s thinks they’ll make more money this way. Whichever company distributes the ones with the stickers thinks they’ll make money because people who are more comfortable with that hechsher will buy it.
I said why, and precisely because of information provided by the Obama administration.
L’shem mamon isn’t bad. But provide positive value for what you do, and don’t be harmful.
I think you missed the point of my comment.
First, that’s often not the case; the kashrus agencies rely one upon another and often share mashgichim. The cost of three hashgochos is probably a lot less than triple that of one.
The value is that the consumer knows (or at least assumes) the standards of each of the hashgochos is being upheld. So, for example, although the OU allows confectioner’s glaze, if the hashgocha on the Twizzlers sticker doesn’t, the consumer who is makpid knows he can eat Twizzlers. Otherwise he doesn’t know.
ZD, nobody doesn’t eat at a restaurant because it doesn’t have the Tav.
People don’t eat at a restaurant without a hechsher they’re familiar and comfortable with.
I recently walked into a place with three hechsherim. One I was not comfortable with, and two I hadn’t heard of, so I walked out.
The Obama administration has pretty much admitted that this deal gives Iran access to many millions of dollars to be used to fund terror.
Even putting aside the longer term issue of the bomb, it’s a bad deal short term.
What business is it of yours (or mine) what he gets paid?
That’s ridiculous. There’s no dishonesty here. You are not heeding your subtitle.
BTW, what’s your annual income?
Gavra, apparently for the frum schools. Why can’t the frum schools hire someone to be their spokesman?
Who should get to decide?
Ever see a tow truck being towed?
Yes, actually. What do you think happens when it breaks down?
Also, they can get tickets.
??? ????