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the people who think theirs nothing wrong with the idea probably thought it before. People don’t change their minds so quickly… unless they weren’t strong on their opinion in the first place.
You’ve just made an argument for nothing ever causing a Kiddush Hashem or Chilul Hashem.
@DY it is not at all semantics because such addictions existed before the internet calling it an internet addiction is not factual and is incredibly misleading.
It absolutely is semantics because countless people have become addicted only because of internet access, especially unfiltered, and regardless of whether the underlying disorder existed before the internet, the cases of addiction have increased manifold since the advent of the internet.
Getting technical, based on the opinion of some psychologists (not all) does nobody any good.
Recognizing the danger, however, is an important step to prevent more people from falling.
jbaldy22,
It’s silly to get into semantics. It’s widely recognized that the behaviors we are referring to are addictive. People with problems such as Boobie’s husband suffers from are referred to therapists, and 12 step programs are implemented.
I didn’t say she didn’t hear correctly. I said maybe she/he “Meant premature”. The Shadchan possibly used the wrong word.
Then you should have directed your comment to the OP, not me.
Someone asked how to say no,
And there were over twenty posts between that and yours.
and I responded to the question.
You didn’t give instructions how, as the OP requested, you merely repeated the word no.
There should be an Asifa to promote the concept of Asay Licha Rav.
Go for it.
It happens to be, that at the CitiField asifa, it was stressed than any internet access should be approved by one’s rov.
“And you know as well as I do that it (Flatbush Asifa)never would have happened without the CitiField asifa.”
Because it would have been unnecessary.
Unnecessary? Tell that to the thousands upon thousands of people who have gotten rid of unnecessary internet access and/or installed filters and monitoring programs.
unfortuantly if it wasnt the internet it would have been something else
In some cases, that’s true, and in some cases it’s not. Even in the cases where it’s true, internet access often makes things worse.
The internet did not create the yetzer hora, but is his powerful and dangerous tool.
For the record, most of what I posted here was taken straight from the brochure which was intended to be distributed at the CitiField Asifa. None of the stories involved me personally, nor anybody who I know personally.
A searchon OU’s website shows 320 Godiva products.
A search on Kof-K’s site (using company name) shows nothing.
Feif:
I found Ruchaynu. I need to convert it to MP3, and then hope that a helpful mod can facilitate file sharing (this has not been available for many years). Stay tuned.
*you’re
Two different plants.
Nah, they both came from Theobroma cacao.
How about Danning the Shadchan L’caf Zecus? Maybe he/she meant to say “Premature”?
How about danning the OP l’kaf z’chus that she heard correctly? 🙂
APY,
You have a habit of commenting without saying what your commenting about. No to what?
Shield Star K aka Kosher Technical Konsultants is not on the cRc list. They claim to be completely Orthodox. Needs further research.
I avoided the word never, but for the most part, I wouldn’t (didn’t actually).
I’m tempted to tell you that it’s appropriate for a shadchan to shame someone into another date, just so I won’t have to hear from you again. 🙂
However, as I posted earlier, I don’t like that the shadchan called her immature. There’s a difference between pressure (or nudging, as I called it) and name calling (or shaming, as you call it) which is offensive , and in the long run, counterproductive.
Looking back at the OP, the shadchan said that saying no is a little immature, which although might be unwise to say, is not the same as saying that the girl is immature.
Yitayningwut,
True 🙂
Csar,
People I trust use Kellogg’s, and it appears on lists which I consider trustworthy. Nevertheless, one can’t extrapolate that the hechsher is reliable, because it might be okay despite, not because of, the hechsher.
I actually have no specific knowledge about that hechsher, I don’t mean to imply that it’s not reliable, just that the general acceptance of Kellogg’s shouldn’t be a hechsher on the KVH.
Popa,
I wouldn’t trust myself on how I feel after one date (barring exceptional circumstances, such as clear hashkafic differences).
Being a shadchan is tough, because some people need nudging (I don’t do much shadchanus because I don’t do the nudging part well), but when you do, you get blacklisted on YW.
There are a lot of happily married couples who credit the shadchan’s stubborness for their shidduch.
JB,
I retract my accusation that you advocated unfiltered internet. I looked back at a different thread, and in your posts, you merely defended your own use of it, based on your own particular case. Other posters defended it on principle, but you didn’t. Please accept my apology. (BTW, if it were me, I wouldn’t discuss it publicly, because the majority of people who have unfiltered internet do not have a legit excuse.)
you had me making recreational use of the internet equal to business uses
You put them in the same sentence; I would have put it in a different universe.
saying that i believe everyone should have unfiltered internet
I never used the word “everyone”. But you are defending it, aren’t you?
I disagree with Popa. Too many people drop a shidduch after one or two dates for invalid reasons. This is NOT, contrary to what some other posters have written, a drastic, life altering decision (unless the shadchan is right, and it works out).
I also disagree with the shadchan calling you immature, even if she’s right.
Moderator, thanks for letting this one through.
Q: Why do the Seminaries accept so many applications with the
non returnable fees when they know they can only accept only a small amount of the applicants?
A: This fee could be $150 or more!!!!
Seriously, if you know this going in, you have no complaint. Besides, if you’re willing to shell out 20k plus, why are you complaining about another $300? It’s just part of the expense of this perceived necessity called sem in EY.
Oh that. Simple, really. Its the expected side-effect of allowing our boys to abdicate their true role, and allow our girls to assume the mantle of being the breadwinner.
Therefore, the natural outcome is, our boys turned into girls (pointy shoes and all).
Nice theory (not really), but males in the greater society are much more into fashion than was true historically; it’s not just “our” boys.
Do you work for any of the organizers?
No
I think you’d be a great asset to any such organization.
I guess not, because I don’t seem to be convincing anyone here. 🙂
Many of the speakers at the asifa admitted they never used the internet, They were only repeating “What they were told” They of course were told there is Schmutz there and its terrible.
They were told Blogs have terrible Loshon Harah and terrible things against the Gedolim
They were told People can buy things with a click of a button on Amazon and ebay faster than you can say a Bracha.
They were told marriages were destroyed by FB and Twitter.
They were told correctly, then.
I seriously doubt they were told there are people who make incomes off eBay and Amazon. That you need Blogs, FB and Twitter to promote your items and make sales . That you can make money on Blogs, FB and twitter by managing peoples social media pages.
I will ask again, as I asked about your Ebay comment – are you defending use of social media by sellers, such as yourself, or by all people, so that you can make parnassah?
If the former, it’s not something I can answer simply, since I don’t know enough about social media to know if it can be safely used the way you describe.
If you mean the latter, that’s like saying we should defend gambling so that people can make parnassah from casinos.
I heard the statment “We are clicking ourselves into vegetables” , Well People “Clicking” is how I make money.
Maybe they weren’t talking about you. Undoubtedly, many have clicked their way into oblivion. Should the rabbonim ignore this so as not to make you uncomfortable?
but ALOT of people, In fact probably MORE than are “Schmutz addicts” make part of all of their parnassah from the internet
Again, for the umpteenth plus time, THEY DIDN’T ASSER INTERNET FOR PARNASSAH. Why do you keep insisting that they did?
again with the straw man argument i am sensing a pattern here.
The only pattern I see here is your misrepresenting my opinion and then saying I am creating a straw man.
if you notice i was in favor of the flatbush internet asifa and very much appreciated the way it was arranged how the speeches were coordinated and that it was very SOLUTIONS oriented.
And you know as well as I do that it never would have happened without the CitiField asifa. The first asifa, for practical considerations (my conjecture) ended up being merely a catalyst for future asifos and solution oriented programs (hotlines, technology centers, etc.).
if that is their reason they are not intelligent people i think it is better to assume that they don’t fully understand the situation</em.
Why can’t you contemplate a third possibility, that you’re wrong? That’s what emunas chachomim is, accepting their words even without fully understanding.
You will convince very few people by being a kanai.
Kanai? Posting on YWN? I don’t think you know what a kanai is.
If you aren’t certain of its reliability, then it cannot be consumed.
I assume you only eat from your own shechita.
Since when did yeshivish guys dress so shpitz and cool and very into fashion with their very tight pants (how do they walk in them), pointy shoes, shpitz hair, etc.
I guess you didn’t get my point. You can define yeshivish however you want, but in my book, those guys aren’t yeshivish.
Want to take that back?
Not unless you can clarify your statement (in which case, I will gladly take it back and apologize).
YOU are putting words into my mouth.
I am not the one who wrote, and I quote (emphasis mine), “the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
Which words did I put in your mouth?
I asked a shaila and i was allowed
Did you also ask whether you’re allowed to advocate for unfiltered internet on a public website?
i feel that there are certain rabbonim who because they are not fully aware of what people are going through are more than a little callous with their language.
Or maybe they know what they’re doing, to convince as many people as possible to avoid the terrible fate that they have seen many go through. Why should you assume they don’t have a valid reason?
to say it is not difficult for people is silly
Which is why I don’t recall anyone saying that.
I’ve also forwarded a copy of the email from the BHI subscription to the YWN moderation email address.
Have the author post on his website that he releases the copyright, and we’ll post it. Sorry.
No problem – understood.
Google “Yizkor pledge” or go to http://www.businesshalacha.com/content/business-weekly-previous and download shlach 5771
I really don’t care for the item.
The item is not what you hold a grudge about, it’s the broken promise.
Is cRc, Chicago, reliable?
My contacts tell me that it’s a solid organization, and that their list of hechsheirim is used as reference by many kashrus organizations.
Some say KVH on Kellogs is only reliable for non flavored cereals such as Corn Flakes, rice krispies, raisin bran and frosted flakes.
Some say Kellogg’s has been checked independently of the KVH.
ZD,
What GAW wrote is absolutely false. The rabbonim DO care about people’s parnassah, and for him to suggest that they hold it’s possibly assur to engage in earning parnassah is comical (if not vicious).
What jbaldy22 wrote, that a private shaila will be treated differently than public policy, is more accurate (although I’m skeptical that completely unfiltered/unmonitored internet would be allowed).
The rabbonim of the Asifa view the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
Why are you trying to be motzi shem ra on rabbonim?
JB,
if they are used to being heavy internet users for their jobs or even recreationally, people are being asked to give up something that to them is a way of life
You’re not getting the same message as I am if you can put use of internet for someone’s job in the same category as recreational use.
CRC (Chicago) doesn’t list either.
I’ll try it again, as it appears in the publicly available PDF on BHI’s site.
Have the author post on his website that he releases the copyright, and we’ll post it. Sorry.
I beleive that these rabbonim have caused the greatest lack of emunas chachomim that has existed in probably the last 50 years.
Lack of emunas chachomim was always blamed, by those who are guilty of it, on the chachomim. Nothing new here.
JB:
the problem i had with the asifa is precisely the impressions many seem to have that if they ask a shaila the rov will not understand them and that he won’t get it.
That’s an emunas chachomim issue, it has nothing to do with the asifa (although many people’s emunas chachomim deficiencies were quite evident in discussing the asifa).
ZD:
The Problem is they denounce the internet in public as “The Chochma of Behamos”
Because that’s how many people use it.
but since the Gedolim has declared the internet the Temuah of Egypt they will persue other sources of incomes
That’s a good thing.
they might not see the nuances that a Rav will allow him and NOT EVEN ASK THE SHAILA
I give people more credit than that.
FYI Ive seen people here condemn eBay
For buying or selling?
I’ve heard of them.
ZD,
It sounds like the only thing that might be an issue is FBA, depending on the contract.
As far as the seven day listing, the assumption would be that someone who is makpid not to have the sale go through on Shabbos would also not list on Shabbos. 🙂
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ZD,
You don’t need unfiltered internet, you just need settings in your filter which work for you, not the default settings.
I don’t think any of the rabbonim involved object to using internet for parnassah; your opposition is based on a misunderstanding.
As for false chumros and halachos posted on the internet, that’s just another argument for avoiding the unnecessary parts of the web.
Speak to a competent, reliable posek, and follow his direction (his psak will undoubtedly be based on the facts as you present them, not as some anonymous CR poster presents them) and never mind the misinformation.
It sounds like you have presented the shaila, and if so you have no reason to be defensive about how you make your living (or as R’ Gifter used to say, how you “take a living)”.