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On Amazon you only get the money AFTER you ship the item, they hold it in escrow until you ship the item. So you dont actually get the money on Shabbos anyway.
Do you get the money when you claim you shipped it, or when the buyer actually receives it? Or, is there a way for Amazon or Ebay to verify that you’ve actually shipped it?
DY: I can’t speak for B&H. I suspect they were advised or received a Psak to be more Machmir
Nor can i speak for them, but my conjecture is that they were advised to do so not because of concern for actual masa umatan issues, but for reasons of maris ayin/zilzul Shabbos, as a company which is well known to be owned by Jews.
In the process, they are zoche to make a big kiddush Hashem.
BTW, even if the money is deposited on Shabbos or Yom Tov, what is the issue, since it wasn’t specifically requested? Would I have a similar problem if my bank deposited an interest payment into my account on Shabbos/YT? If the government deposits my tax refund on Shabbos/YT, do I have to give it back (or better yet can I not request it as an automatic deposit, but rather, must ask for a paper check?
Haleivi,
But a pledge was made to the yeshiva! And despite the fact that the yeshiva might gain from an unpaid ad, there was no such agreement, and the “donor” did get his ad printed.
Owning their own site, why can’t they arrange for no processing to take place on Shabbos?
Yatzmich,
Who says he has to or even should? Maybe B&H should because it’s well known that it’s frum owned, but Zahavasdad sells under a neutral name?
Don’t you think it’s shallow to judge someone by their externals?
Can we get back to the point of this thread, which is whether it’s proper to return a cell call based on caller ID? 🙂
Can we get back to the original point of this thread people who make pledges get something for it and choose not to pay?
Not much to discuss. Everyone agrees it’s wrong.
Conclusion
We are standing at the threshold of Mashiach. Our gedolim have been saying for generationsthat America would be the final galus. The dramatic,exponential increase in the nisyonos is perhaps the best oracle that prophesies the imminent arrival of the Geulah.
We have read the stories of the impossible trials of keeping Shabbos in America during the early part of the previous century. The greenhorns who came from Europe were immediately mocked by the established Jews who told them there was no future for religion in the New World. Those who ignored the derision, the daring few, soon discovered that the words they had been told were a reality. There was no way to find a job if one insisted on keeping Shabbos. And so a new Jew developed, Jews who would wear a yarmulke and keep kosher but go to work on Shabbos. There were hashkama minyanim for the workers to finish the longer Shabbos morning prayers early enough to reach their jobs in time for the opening of the doors.
Looking back with the hindsight of over 50 years, we find it difficult to comprehend. We understand that the temptation was overwhelming, but how could a person consider themselves an Orthodox, practicing Jew if they were transgressing Shabbos?!
Stop and think about it. Are we not guilty of allowing ourselves to lose the most important aspects of our Jewish identity, even as we keep Shabbos and kashrus, even as we daven and learn, even as we support a Torah infrastructure on a scale the world has never seen before? Are we not turning ourselves into assimilated Jews?
The secular world has already woken up to the fact that the internet is not all fun and games. In China, where internet addiction plagues millions of youths, over 200 boot camps have been set up under military-style control of active soldiers where children are prevented from accessing any technological device whatsoever.
They must follow a strict daily regimen that includes labor and difficult exercises. Those who broke camp regulations were beaten or subjected to lengthy shock treatment, until several accidental fatalities aroused a storm of protests and the government was forced to crack down.
While we do not propose setting up a similar rehabilitation system, the intensity of the response by the non-Jewish world should tell us something about the severity of the problem and how it is meant to be handled. We stand to lose much more than any other nation if our identifying features are erased from the next generation. Should we be any less serious than they in our response to the crisis?
We must begin to admit to ourselves the nature of the disgusting and horrendous trap set for us. We must evince at least the same horror we show when confronted by a harmless spider regarding internet use in our midst.
Technology is a potent tool. While we have concentrated for the most part on the internet itself, much should also be spoken about the problems inherent in the universal access provided by e-mail, in the constant connection created by cell phone use (without internet), and especially the dangers of text messaging.
Our rabbonim have spread the alarm. It is up to us, however, to face the reality and respond accordingly. The fire is burning out of control; it is spreading quickly to our own homes. When we arrive in the World of Truth and are held accountable for our apathy, we will not be able to say that we had not been warned.
Oomis, I get that all the time (except they don’t usually have the chutzpah to say $100, it’s usually $18 or $36).
True, but it’s rude not to leave a message
That’s often the case, but that doesn’t change my need to know.
Sometimes, though, something might be confidential, and the proper thing would be to NOT leave a message. For instance, you might not want one of your kids to hear a message left by a physician’s office, even without specific information, in order not to alarm them.
Pe’uloh is the actual action/deed, such as a winner winning the auction
I thought you might have meant that, but winning an auction isn’t a pe’ulah.
Maybe B & H disables their websites, but you cant do that with eBay and Amazon
Maybe they do it, because as an obviously frum company, it would be a zilzul of Shabbos not to.
147,
What pe’uloh?
The call MAY have been important, but if so, the caller would have left a message.
Sometimes it’s important to the one being called, but not the caller.
If it actually takes the money straight from your account/credit card as soon as the auction closes then it’s probably not allowed, actually.
On Ebay, you have to manually submit your Paypal info for the purchase to be finalized. I also don’t think there’s a problem.
after i hang up i say to myself boy what a moron.
Why? How are they supposed to know that hundreds of people have access to that line?
Makes sense.
That thread is very odd looking with all the funny code messing up the page.
Tens of people have access to our phones well hundreds really.
Then it’s certainly understandable that you wouldn’t be able to track who called, but how is the one returning the call supposed to know that, for you to call them a moron?
From the other perspective, I’ve returned calls, not knowing whom I was calling, and finding out that it was an institution with many phone lines, but one number, such as yours. It’s very frustrating on my end not to be able to know who called – and at times it turned out that it was indeed an important call.
Which thread?
l????d?l?/??u?????s????
If the call was important they would have left a message
If it wasn’t important they shouldn’t have called in the first place.
to have me inquire if anyone called them is quite silly and they come as being self centered.
Any more self centered than your reluctance to accommodate them?
i think to myself this person is a real moron.
Why? It’s quite normal (although not mandatory) to return a call from caller ID, and it’s not the caller’s fault that everyone working there doesn’t have their own number.
I have reached a point where if I get such phone calls, I will no longer make a pledge, but ask them to send me an envelope and IF I am able to, I will send something.
And then they probably tell you that you DID pledge.
World Fair
Imagine that once each a year a major international fair is held at the Javitz Conference Center in Manhattan. People from all over the world get together for several days to share business ideas, exchange news, meet friends
and just enjoy themselves. For the sake of equality, everyone dresses similarly and wears a name tag that may or may not reflect the name they go by at home.
We are so careful not to eat food until we see at least some sort of hechsher. We may even refrain from buying a sefer until we see a haskama (approbation) from a familiar rabbinical name. How is it then that we can trust ourselves to study the words of people whose beliefs and guiding principles are directly at odds with everything we hold dear?
Many yeshivas are against Art Scroll Gemorah because they are New
No, that’s NOT why they’re against it.
He and many others do not like blogs that critize, some critisim is unwarranted but some isnt. Criticism for the sake of critism is bad. But Constructive Critism could be a good thing
The vast majority violate the halachos of lashon hora. But I think you’re right that it’s a major issue with the internet, and one that is actually openly addressed, not obfuscated as you erroneously suggest. See my next post, from the brochure.
And shmutz really is a very big issue, because aside from the fact that it’s more common than you’d like to admit, it’s really, horribly, terribly bad for your neshama, even if only viewed a little bit.
I never pledge. If I want to give, I give a CC# over the phone. If I want to think about it, I ask to be sent an envelope. They always ask if they can put me down for $18. When I say no, they say they’re putting me down for $10, and I tell them no. They often later send me a bill. I know I didn’t pledge because it’s my policy (so that I don’t end up breaking a promise – tov shelo tidor…).
I would be dan these people l’kaf z’chus that nobody can really trust the recorded pledges since the telemarketers are often unscrupulous.
Although if they really did pledge, they obviously must pay.
Are Monsey Scoop and Catskill Scoop joining to form The Upstate NY Scoop?
Pawn shops pay very little.
Weigh it, and figure out base on the price of silver what you should get. The store/refiner will take off 25% or so (much more than gold). When you calculate, don’t forget that sterling silver (925) is only 92.5% silver.
What’s up with the stylish, “cool” guys who are so into their looks, wearing hats jackets and peyos behind their ears?
How about someone who watches once a week or once a month?
Still horrible, but either way, the term addiction has a meaning beyond the amount of time spent.
arguing against the usefulness of the internet in my opinion is just plain ridiculous and that is precisely what this piece tries to do
It is NOT arguing against the usefulness, but against the relative benefit (except for basic parnassah needs) against the downside.
I find it hard to debate you when you (in my opinion) mischaracterize the opposing argument.
it seems that there is as of now no clear cut evidence that it is in fact an addiction.
The point is, that whether it’s technically an addiction or not (is there a debate that there are people who are addicted to shmutz?), it acts like an addiction, so what’s the difference?
Why do people pay all that money for android and iPhones if they don’t want the ability to use the Internet.
Certain apps use the internet but don’t use a browser.
Android phones are available for as little as $85, so it shouldn’t be in the same sentence as iphones.
I don’t have either, BTW.
jbaldy22,
Google “internet addiction” and see if the author of this article is the only one who thinks this way (hint… not by a long shot).
Until someone defines this term (i.e. better in what way? What does being “better” mean?), the discussion at hand is pointless.
Good point.
many of the intros are goyish, you probably don’t even notice
I noticed. It’s a shanda, as RABBAIM pointed out. True, we’re desensitized to it, but that doesn’t make it right.
The problem isn’t so far from that of BTs, and here everyone agrees that they should be matched with their own.
Everyone?
Just have everyone ignore them.
Deadly Attraction
107 Trillion.
Add to that 152 million blogs, 25 billion Twitter messages that are sent out per year, 50 billion notices on Facebook per month, 2 billion videos viewed on YouTube per day, over 5 billion photos already posted on Flickr, another 36 billion pictures that are uploaded to another popular site each year, the over 366 million websites now in existence and millions more that are being added each year. The above information should give you an idea of how many billions of hours are being spent on nonsense or worse by the estimated 2 billion internet users around the globe. It should also bear witness to the terrible addiction which results from connecting to this universe of information.
In one extreme case, a couple in Korea would spend 12 hours a day away from home on the internet. They would run home once a day to feed their three-year-old daughter. She died of dehydration and malnutrition. There have been incidents of people who assaulted and even shot others for posting negative comments or embarrassing photos about them.
One 15-year-old shot his own father after his internet privileges were revoked. The problem of the internet being used by teenagers to attack and ridicule others and the resulting emotional issues has become so alarming that in 2006 the CDC (Center for Disease Control, a federal agency) called a conference to address the crisis.
While all these cases involve non-Jews, it is important to realize that we are playing the same game of Russian roulette as they are. The consequences cannot possibly lag far behind.
It has been documented in the medical world that internet users who are blocked access to the web suffer the same physical withdrawal symptoms as hard-core drug abusers. In one case, students were denied access entirely and 79% reported suffering severe edginess and depression. It would be extremely foolish for anyone to convince themselves that they are above internet addiction.
The Jewish world has suffered its share as well. In one case, several years ago, a man was spending night and day tied to his screen. His wife complained that she could not go on living with a husband like that and he would have to choose between the internet and his family. By then it was too late. He chose the internet.
But the situation does not have to be so extreme. Even those who do not drop out of life entirely find that the internet has them bound up sufficiently to materially interfere with their lives. When a parent sits down to supper with one hand holding the fork and the other his smartphone, from which he cannot unglue his eyes, that parent may be sitting with the family in a technical sense, but the children realize they are technology orphans. Their emotional needs cannot compete with the lure of the web.
This widespread irreverence completely undermines our chinuch. It is has eroded our most basic values and created an atmosphere in which nothing we preach is taken seriously. It is destroying us as a nation of servants of Hashem in a way that nothing we have ever faced before could have done.
Here comes the bride?
What if you install K-9 and give someone else the password?
Why must everyone judge a person based on the fact that they have non religious siblings?
Who says everyone does?
I say it is worse than shmutz.
Are you referring to the CR?
5 toes on a foot, but I liked Oomis’ better.
That’s why your only posting about 25% of what you used to?
Deadly Attraction
107 Trillion.
Admittedly, the vast majority of those are junk mail, receipts and automatic responses, but there are still plenty of messages left over to keep people busy all day.
Add to that 152 million blogs, 25 billion Twitter messages that are sent out per year, 50 billion notices on Facebook per month, 2 billion videos viewed on YouTube per day, over 5 billion photos already posted on Flickr, another 36 billion pictures that are uploaded to another popular site each year, the over 366 million websites now in existence and millions more that are being added each year. The above information should give you an idea of how many billions of hours are being spent on nonsense or worse by the estimated 2 billion internet users around the globe. It should also bear witness to the terrible addiction which results from connecting to this universe of information.
In one extreme case, a couple in Korea would spend 12 hours a day away from home on the internet. They would run home once a day to feed their three-year-old daughter. She died of dehydration and malnutrition. There have been incidents of people who assaulted and even shot others for posting negative comments or embarrassing photos about them.
One 15-year-old shot his own father after his internet privileges were revoked. The problem of the internet being used by teenagers to attack and ridicule others and the resulting emotional issues has become so alarming that in 2006 the CDC (Center for Disease Control, a federal agency) called a conference to address the crisis.
While all these cases involve non-Jews, it is important to realize that we are playing the same game of Russian roulette as they are. The consequences cannot possibly lag far behind.
It has been documented in the medical world that internet users who are blocked access to the web suffer the same physical withdrawal symptoms as hard-core drug abusers. In one case, students were denied access entirely and 79% reported suffering severe edginess and depression. It would be extremely foolish for anyone to convince themselves that they are above internet addiction.
The Jewish world has suffered its share as well. In one case, several years ago, a man was spending night and day tied to his screen. His wife complained that she could not go on living with a husband like that and he would have to choose between the internet and his family. By then it was too late. He chose the internet.
But the situation does not have to be so extreme. Even those who do not drop out of life entirely find that the internet has them bound up sufficiently to materially interfere with their lives. When a parent sits down to supper with one hand holding the fork and the other his smartphone, from which he cannot unglue his eyes, that parent may be sitting with the family in a technical sense, but the children realize they are technology orphans. Their emotional needs cannot compete with the lure of the web.
This widespread irreverence completely undermines our chinuch. It is has eroded our most basic values and created an atmosphere in which nothing we preach is taken seriously. It is destroying us as a nation of servants of Hashem in a way that nothing we have ever faced before could have done.