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Oomis,
You’re right that the discussion turned away from the OP, but it is very relevant to the title, “Letting people bring food into your home”. Whether or not you can use food prepared in someone’s pots if you trust them but don’t eat all of the foods they do is a worthy topic on its own.
mdd,
I hope you can still be friends 🙂
ItcheSrulik,
“it’s pretty hard to come up with a case where the pot treifs the food by accident, especially with milchigs.”
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to come up with a case; a cholov acu”m pot would “treif” any food subsequently cooked in it (within 24 hours).
What is Rav Belsky’s reason? It might be only because stam keilim einom b’nei yomon; that would probably only apply if you can’t ask. You could probably ask your neighbor.
Hello99,
You’re right, but wouldn’t it depend on whether it’s min b’she’eino mino? Also, some poskim might take into account the rishonim who hold it’s even d’rabbonon in a case of mim b’mino, as a “snif”.
Nice to hear from you again!
Real Brisker,
Please see ????? ??? ??”? ?”? ???? ?”? at the beginning of the ?????. Let me know what you think.
“Daas Yochid: There are many poskim who are lenient about blios of Cholov “stam” because the etzem food is a machlokes.”
I wouldn’t be surprised, I just want to know who (and why; I would guess because ta’am k’ikor is d’rabbonon).
A responsible hashgocha would stay on top of which products’ status have changed and would then take appropriate action. This monitoring can be done off site; hashgocha temidis would still not be required.
Again, I’m not saying that this is always done, just that the large number of certified products does not have to imply poor supervision.
When a post is removed, all post which were in response to the removed post should either be removed, or, better yet, noted as a response to a deleted post.
ItcheSrulik,
You say it’s a machlokes. I know that the R’ma in Y.D. 115 says that cholov akum makes keilim ossur. For someone who treats today’s milk as cholov akum, if the keilim are bnei yomon, they would pose a problem.
Of course, how to treat today’s milk in the USA is a machlokes, but but we are talking about someone who is machmir.
Is there someone who disagrees with the R’ma or says that keilim are more lenient when the food is a machlokes?
Heinz Ketchup is a good example of why a hashgocha can certify so many products. It is essentially something which needs little supervision; as long as they are consistent in the ingredients they use (they presumably are because they want every bottle of ketchup to taste the same) and the OU has ensured that they are fine, there is no requirement for a full time mashgiach. They probably don’t use that equipment for anything other than ketchup.
Whether or not ant particular hashgocha is stretched too thin is definitely an important consideration; I’m merely pointing out that it is not impossible to responsibly give hashgocha on hundreds of thousands of products.
If you live near a Radio Shack, try there.
eclipse,
Actually, I thought you meant keep as in “still have”.
Oomis,
Of course all types of people are unfortunately nichshal in this difficult area. Which is precisely why the Shulchan Aruch says that in this area we need extreme caution; he says “m’od m’od”. Even if we disagree about which precautions are necessary and which are excessive, you shouldn’t dismiss the idea of separate seating with a “who cares”!
BTW, tho OP did a good job of stirring up a discussion out of nothing! 🙂
I mostly agree with you, except for two points (and I’m nitpicking):
1) a hashgocha which is meikil on everything will have a market; there are always people who see a kosher symbol and that’s enough for them. There are two I can think of off hand, but I won’t mention by name.
2) I don’t only have one goal in my kitchen, otherwise I would not buy any processed foods and I would do my own shechita or hire a private shochet. But the balance is different than a commercial establishment (food service or packaged goods). I (hopefully) am more focused on kashrus relative to money and convenience than they are, which is really the essence of my point.
Health – lucky you (actually, smart you)!
I remember hearing that one of the gedolim was against playing the lottery (I assume on a regular basis) because it can lead to an unhealthy attitude (no pun intended) about finances.
apushatayid,
You are correct, but I thought the discussion had digressed somewhat since checking lettuce was mentioned. Bagged lettuce could be washed or greenhouse grown, and there is a difference between romaine and iceberg. The checking afterward is just random sampling to ensure that the process was successful at preventing/removing bugs. I assumed that the comparison between checking at home and by a mashgiach was referring to a food service establishment.
My point remains the same; although in some areas, hashgochos are more machmir than individuals, in many areas (more, I believe), they employ kulos which many people would prefer not to.
eclipse: There are many guys under 90 who don’t hurt people either. May you find a really nice one soon!
By the way, you say “Midos are the only thing you get to keep ’til the end, for better or for worse.:)” a beautiful sentiment, but I assume you mean all mitzvos!
umm:
I don’t think anyone here is taking this literally; I think before a big lottery, many people fantasize about what to do with the money.
I don’t own a greenhouse. But that’s beside the point; I am not actually machmir on every single thing on my list, I’m just making a point that there are many kulos which the kashrus agencies use which many individuals don’t. I don’t deny that in some areas commercial products might be superior. But I will point out that the level of supervision in my home is superior!
I don’t know you personally (at least I don’t think so!) but I would probably be more comfortable eating in your home than in many commercial establishments.
“If we are Shomrei Shabbos and Kashrus, who CARES if we sit mixed at a simcha?”
HKB”H. Because arayos is also in the Torah (with extra precautions).
Al Gore made them all up.
Y.W. Editor – Yeshiva World!
“kashrus agencies rely on many kulos that you would never use in your home”
This is false.
You are mistaken, in fact the opposite is more correct.
It most likely depends on the individual. For someone who is makpid on cholov yisroel, or pas yisroel, or hashgocha temidis on tuna (or salmon), or bishul yisroel on potato chips, or worms in fish, or non – surgical cows for milk, or heter mechira on Israeli produce, or oil produced in a plant not used for animal fats, or “chassidishe” shechita, or (need I continue?)…
some the national hechsherim would definitely use kulos that he or she would not.
Answer: I’m sorry, I have a very poor vocabulary; what’s a shortcoming?
Buy a copy of Ahavas Chesed; if you read you will find that your assumption is wrong and that you can give more than 20%:
a) since you have osher muflog
b) even if not, to support Torah
“On a train in the rain?”
On a day we lain (just using my brain, though I’m a bit insane).
I have heard that in situations where tipping is expected (such as waiters), it becomes required in halacha. Check with your posek for guidelines.
haros,
If you don’t mind, can you please tell me where that t’shuvah is so that I can look it up?
CharliHall: “Chazal didn’t see gambling as a productive enterprise so they pasuled any professional gambler for eidus.”
Which, seemingly would not apply to buying a lottery ticket, since Chazal were referring to someone whose occupation was gambling, not the occasional gambler. As for the reason given by klach of stealing, as yitayningwut and frumladygit pointed out, there would not be an issue with a lottery ticket.
I like Wolf’s approach; once in a while when the pot’s big.
Wolf,
I think you missed Mod 80’s point – personal preference *does* matter, but for someone on a high madreiga, the chesbon can be more complex. Meanwhile, for simple folks like me, (and I guess you,) B’TEIAVON! (But even we can thank Hashem for the delicious food!)
BTW, my favorite sandwich: steak sandwich, hold the bread!
MII:
You might have a hard time getting responses on this; people won’t want to identify themselves by the bungalow colony they spend their summers in (I hope I’m wrong). Good luck!
Wolf,
If you don’t drink coffee, what are you doing in the coffee room? 🙂
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
Bezalel,
The word gender has more than one meaning.
WIY,
I agree that it would be odd not to know who he sold it to, but if he only checked them, it would make more sense.
Some sofrim put on a sticker when they check tefillin. It would make more sense, then, that there are no records.
Wolf,
I have no idea what the odds are that they were stolen as opposed to left on the subway; my point is that this should be publicized to anyone who lost his tefillin anywhere because it is a possibility.
BUMP!
It’s possible that these tefillin were stolen (anywhere) and discarded by the thief on the subway, in which case the owner would have no way to identify which line they were on.
Whoever belongs to a local shul email list, please post this.
For me, it’s been worth it. It might depend on how much storage space you have. Why not give it a shot? Within a year, membership is refundable!
bein_hasdorim: Chacham Ovadiah quoted Loy Tovi To’eivah El Beisecha as well.
Wolf, I would think what you did was fine, based on the sources quoted. I personally prefer the method of gesturing that the seat he’s in is fine (hard to describe in words). In another context, making an intentional misrepresentation would, I think, be wrong.
As much as many would like to deny it, exposure to secular movies is ????, not merely “not a nice thing”. I bring here a translation of ??”? ???? ???? ??? ?’ ??’ ?”? from Rav Ovadiah Yosef Shlit”a.
I wish anyone trying to fight the Yetzer Hora on this one much hatzlocha!
“…One must close his eyes when reading ??? (when in the presence of a television).
BTW, I think turning the boards on edge is to prevent warping.
According to the illustration in the assembly manual, there is an overlap.
http://www.sukkahdepot.com/English/Article.aspx?Item=88
The store might be giving out the wrong ones.
The word k’neged means opposite, not next to.
Rav Padwa, of course, is ????, I only quote him regarding the specific issue of whether the worm is considered merely a ???? or a part of the crustacean.
hello,
Did you see Rav Padwa’s ??????
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=63097
He makes the same ????? that we’re “arguing” about. His ????? is like mine, but he somehow is assuming that most of the worm’s growth is in the ?? ????. I suppose that this is consistent with his rejection of ???? ???????.
Back to ???? ??????. If you look carefully at R’ Feivel’s letter, he is not talking about the size of the filter, but the ????? of ???? ??????. I quote again – “which will pick up anything 30 microns or bigger”. The size of the filter is only relevant regarding its ability to pick up anything which is a problem – something which is 30 microns or larger, and therefore ???? ??????. Although this should be sufficient evidence of his opinion, I knew this before finding this parsha sheet, having heard his opinion from his talmidim at the time the NYC bugs-in-water “crises” erupted.
As far as the length is concerned, of course you are correct that if an object can be so thin as to be sub-visible at any length. It should also be obvious, though, that that size would be somewhat smaller than the size given for sub-visible in three dimensions. I don’t know the precise number, but I think even the thinnest human hair is visible, as well as a fine (or even superfine) merino wool fiber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merino
My summer schedule and location is different than during the year; I don’t know for how much longer I can keep this up. I might still have some time (and web access) to respond, But in case not, I now will now wish everyone in the coffee room a happy and healthy summer, and ask anyone who I may have offended ?????.
hello,
At the end of the ??”?, he quotes the ??”? and seems to agree, or at least to acept it as consistent with his original statement.
“So now according to your understanding of the ??”? ?”? the worms are only milchig until they leave the cheese completely and become assur, then they become pareve. I’m impressed.”
First of all, thank you. Secondly, (I’m working backwards here) they would only be ???? (I wouldn’t use the word “pareve” here) if they were ???? ??.
Anyhow, the ???? in ???? to which you refer is not listing possible ?????, just the definite ones, otherwise ??? ?? ???, ?? ?????, ???”? should have been added.
hello,
re: microns. “which will pick up anything 30 microns or bigger”
If you need a 25 micron (or less) rated filter to pick up the bugs, then so be it. 30 is his shiur of N”L.
I know 14 is smaller (I’ve seen 15-20, but either way it’s smaller), but I’ve maintained that since these are longer, they are visible.
“NOONE agrees with the ??”? that with wormy cheese one must eat the worms”
Have you found anyone who disagrees? The aged cheese and wormy cheese are two separate issues, as you said, so arguing on the first does not mean arguing on the ??”?’s ??? on the second.
HIE:
I don’t mean to question that R’ Dovid said what you quoted. I just meant that he is not taking a strong stance (at least publicly) either way.
Do you know when R’ Dovid said it; before or after it became clear that the gedolim in EY did osser?