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Sam2,
These are separate issues.
obviously they can employ lawyers as experts, but that raises a host of other issues, since different practitioners of New York law are likely to have different views on any particular question
I wouldn’t think consulting lawyers should be a problem; dayanim regularly consult experts in all fields for their knowledge and expertise. Similarly, rabbonim regularly consult physicians for shailos involving medicine.
Y.W. Editor,
You mean pleasant. Everything is good.
I see the title of this thread was changed (probably for those who took offense at yeshiva being disassociated with the “real” world.
However, the new title is (imo) misleading; the OP had nothing to do with being “yeshivish” (whatever that means). My suggestion for a title?
- Should I continue in Yeshiva or go to work?
Feif Un,
Thanks so much for these links; I was going to search for that second one.
Do these two articles contradict each other to some extent? The first one maintains that R’ Moshe’s heter is “stronger than ever” while the second one promotes a different heter (which R’ Moshe would presumably have agreed to) which is “a total reverse” from his actual heter.
Gabboim,
It’s more complicated than that. Often, the parties enter into an agreement without stipulating certain conditions, and the ??? ??? will determine what the unspoken agreement (i.e. ??????) is, based on ???? ?????, which, in turn, is often determined by local law.
The actual term (from ????? ??? ??? ?,?) is: ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????, but “??? ?????” fits better on the milk container.
Health,
The answer (for me) is yes to all of your questions, to varying derees.
This it? (I Googled it)
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/mirroring-listening-the-right-way
OK, sorry.
Health,
We beg you, please be more careful; we want to keep on seeing you in the coffee room, not c”v in the news section!
Charlie,
I agree with your last post; knowing the “dina malchusa” is imperative for a dayan. However, he must not allow the legal theories behind it to affect his understanding of Choshen Mishpat.
1818,
Hashem yerachem! But I don’t understand your point; if someone who earns 200K and still suffers from needing help, why would that recommend working full time? Either way, your going to suffer (unless you’re in the 3% or so who earn more than 200k); might as well learn, if that’s your ambition anyway!
Anyhow, many people who support their children do it in a completely non-controlling way. See posts above; this is also, in my experience, very common.
The Goq,
Is there somewhere we can meat ? Because frank ly, I don’t like that you’re roast ing me. I cry “fowl ! (I don’t really want to meat ; I’m too chicken) .
hello99,
As an illustration of your point, in the case of bishul akum, a Yid’s supervision is not sufficient; he must do the cooking. The entire issue of cholov akum, however, is one of supervision; it matters not that the akum did the milking.
yw ty for the input
they said im welcome
TheGoq,
How dairy you, having a cow in the middle of our discussion! I have a beef with you.
yoyo56,
You’ve got your facts wrong (I have no idea if it was your rabbi’s mistake or yours).
1) If milk comes from a non kosher animal it is cholov tomei, an issur d’oraisa (cholov akum is d’rabbonon).
2) For milk to be c”y the mashgiach does not have to see the actual milking.
charlie:
“there are legitimate opinions that in the US, no direct supervision is necessary for milk to be “
It is not opinion but fact that there is no milk (or any other dairy products) from non-kosher animals that is permitted to be sold in the US. That may change, as there is a serious effort to permit camel milk to be sold.
First of all, you cut off my quote too early; I wrote to be kosher.
Second of all, despite the fact that it is extremely unlikely that there is any cholov tomei in our milk, the machlokes is whether the gezeirah still applies.
Even if camel milk becomes legal (interesting fact, btw), most likely, R’ Moshe’s heter would still apply. I would assume that it would still be illegal to mislabel camel’s milk as cow’s milk.
I’ve heard that even eating the food from a bris elsewhere is considered participating in a seudas mitzvah. Many caterers provide bags for take-home. Of course, one should be considerate and not take food home if there won’t be enough for the people who stayed.
TheGoq,
Thanks for the update.
As very few people today (in the USA, anyway) are actually “Ovdei Kochavim U’Mazalos,” the term Cholov Akum as applied to milk taht is not supervised by a Yid, might be considered inaccurate. Cholov Stam is therefore an appropriate name to refer to milk not obtained from the cow under the supervision of a Jew.
The laws of milk have nothing to do with whether the non-Jew is an actual “Oved Kochavim U’Mazalos,”. The term is unimportant (in halacha); there are historical reasons for its usage (see rabbiofberlin and truth be told’s posts. But as I mentioned in my previous post, it is important in halacha to distinguish between milk which is unquestionably non-kosher and milk which is subject to machlokes. Therefore, the term “cholov stam” is not interchangeable with the term “cholov akum (as these terms are commonly used).
it’s also great for kids…too many of them are not getting enough excersice. There is nothing like tossing a ball around with your kids…
There’s a huge difference between sports viewing (and following) and actively playing.
I have mixed feelings about the former, so I don’t want to get into it, but even those who are staunchly against it are generally in favor of the latter (at least in the US; E.Y. is different).
eclipse,
Since I offered, may I pleeeeese read this thread anyhow? 🙂
truth be told,
Does R’ Moshe refer to it as cholov stam? I thought he used the term “cholov hacompanies”.
Anyhow, back to the OP, since there are legitimate opinions that in the US, no direct supervision is necessary for milk to be kosher (i.e Igros Moshe, Pri Chodosh) but in some countries the milk is non-kosher according to all opinions, there needs to be a third category. the three categories would be:
1) Cholov Yisroel; loosely defined as milk which fits the more stringent definition of kosher
2) Cholov Akum; loosely defined as milk which in non-kosher according to all opinions
3) Cholov Stam; loosely defined as milk which is acceptable according to some, but not all, opinions
Even those who consider “cholov stam” as, technically, “cholov yisroel” would (or at least should) agree that if someone would label cholov stam milk (from a source which was not directly supervised) as cholov yisroel, (s)he would be engaged in deception. The terminology used for this third category is unimportant as long as the consumer knows what is being purchased.
Gut Voch.
“RSRH”,
Simply put, studying American law makes me aware of issues that Batei Din have never had to confront,
On that point, I agree. Talmidei chachomim have always discussed how the Torah deals with issues that were not directly addressed by earlier talmidei chachomim.
and possible solutions to old problems that the Beis Din system did not have the experience to implement.
If you mean that because of their larger caseload, the secular courts have something over the poskim, I disagree in the strongest terms. Everything is contained in the Torah. It’s the poskim`s duty, in every generation, to best uncover how the Torah deals with any “new” situation, unaffected by the secular perspective (l’havdil). Good luck, by the way, on your law Review article.
“Ofcourse”,
No need for protective gear, I come peacefully.
If your point is simply that some people don’t really have the proper commitment to Torah because they still need their physical pleasures, I agree, but it seems to me that you were arguing for not learning in kollel without extereme wealth.
In other words, I still disagree with your earlier post, but I too am pained by the sad reality expressed in your last post, which exists for some. Yet, many do sacrifice the material for a life dedicated to learning.
“Gabboim”,
Thank you.
“Please use spell check, you’re killing me.”
I would love to know how to use spell check while posting, if you can tell me how to do it that would be a great help.
PBA’s advice is the best, but you can also write your post in a program with spell check (i.e. Microsoft Word) and then copy and paste it into the reply box. None of this works if you misspell with a word which exists; it’s much better to know how to smell. (sic)
IF his parents can commit in a way that will go on and enable him to marry off all his kids. We’re talking trust funds. Otherwise we’re talking about Bitachon on programs…
According to your condition, almost nobody would devote their lives (or even the first several years) to full-time learning.
Trust funds? Bitochon comes in somewhere!
As far as the second point, a serious learner should make sure to marry a woman who shares his goals. But the risk you describe does not and cannot mean that nobody should learn full time.
If Klal Yisroel followed your criteria, we would have no gedolim, c”v.
That Hashem should listen to your request in the z’chus of the person buried there.
Why would I mind? I didn’t invent it. 🙂
Than I guess you’re not Al Gore IRL. 🙂
Have a good Shabbos (If you’re seeing this after Shabbos, than I hope you had a good Shabbos).
eclipse,
No problem; do you like celery sticks?
yiddishemishpacha,
Your “ten cents” is priceless.
My legal studies too support and fine-tune my learning Choshen Mishpat.
Not a good idea. You will corrupt the Torah you learn.
Please, eclipse, can I read this thread? 🙂
Wolf,
I hope you don’t mind, I’ve been borrowing your style of italicizing other posters’ quotes.
BTW, you method of dealing with The Goq’s issue only works for someone who can stand for an entire davening.
BP Totty,
If “out of town” means BP
This is is the first time I’ve ever seen someone refer to Boro Park as “out of town” (even as a hava amina)! 🙂
Isn’t man’s purpose in this world to work and support his family?
No; it is an obligation according to the ?????, but it’s not man’s purpose. Man’s purpose is to follow the ???? ?????, and ultimately, ?????? ?? ?’ ??????? ???? ??????. There’s no better way to achieve that than to sit and learn, and if the bills are getting paid (even by your parents) you have not violated the terms of your ?????.
Wolf,
Isn’t the definition of the word shidduch a match arranged through a third person?
More accurately (if I’m correct), you could have written “My zivug came through Him”.
Not to shop in those stores; the economic pressure has to be stronger the other way.
I live on a side street and when I woke up this morning it had been plowed.
Wolf, would you still have your question if you told a customer that an item was milchig causing him not to purchase it?
Winny1,
I don’t think anyone needs the store owners permission to accurately describe a product being sold.
Wolf,
In case it wasn’t obvious where I stand here, I think that besides having done the right thing (which you already “admitted” to), you owe nothing to the owner, even as a “lifnim m’shuras hadin”.
Giving the owner money, I think, would not be “tzedakah” as ItsJustMyOpinion (the English version of my screen name) suggested, rather, a present.
Had your information about the cones containing gluten been inaccurate, you might have a shaila.
GAW,
Are you thinking what I’m thinking, that it’s a bunch of yeshiva bochurim in the same dorm using the same computer and IP address?
One point against that theory; they might have used it as a defense.
Wolf,
OK, let’s add one caveat to my scenario; he will not be home before the ice cream will melt. Would you then have the same question?
DY
Wolf,
If you were in the store and a customer asked you if a particular flavor was milchig (he was fleishig) and you answered in the affirmative, causing him to leave, would you have the same question?
DY
Popa,
Do you mean through the loops (i.e like apushatayid)?
Were they homeless or travelers?
I sent this question t o a well known halacha institute. This is how I worded the question:
Kvod Horav,
When is one obilgated to give a tip (i.e. waiter, delivery, camp
counselor) and when is it optional?
Thanks,
(name)
This is the answer I received:
(name),
Thank you so much for contacting us with this interesting inquiry. The answer to your inquiry is that generally one is not obligated to give a tip. However, one must be mindful of two things. In some circumstances a “tip” is part of the employee’s salary (camp counselor or waiter) and as such it should be paid the same as their salary. Additionally, one must be mindful of the potential chillul Hashem that could result if one does not properly tip an employee.
Hatzlacha Rabba,
—
(name of Rov)
(name of institute)
Obviously, consult you own posek, but it seems to me that it would be agreed upon by most.
From Be’er Mayim Chaim (a Google group:
THE LITTLE LEAFwell known teaching of the Baal
Shem Tov, founder of the Chassidic movement, and about how Divine
Providence extends over every
created entity.This translation was prepared by a resident of Tsfat for the album,
Avraham Fried Sings
Yiddish Gems.A tree stands, tall and high,
Branches reaching for the sky;
A little leaf, without a sound
A tzaddik who is passing by
Stops and asks the little leaf, Why?
What made you drop from your abode
And lie here in the road?I am not the authority
The twig I was on gave a sudden shake
It was more than I could take.
Twig, twig, O authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me
Why you gave a sudden shake,
More than the leaf could take?I am not the authority;
The wind gave a sudden whoosh
And blew the little leaf loose.
Wind, wind, O authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me,
Why you gave a sudden whoosh
And blew the little leaf loose?I am not the authority;
My angel told me what to do,
So with all my might I blew.
Angel, angel, O authority,
Perhaps you an explain to me,
Why you told the wind what to do,
And mightily it blew?I am not the authority;
The Creator of me and you
Told me what to do.
Creator, Creator, O Authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me,
Why the little leaf is shaken free
And falls down from its tree?
The Creator reveals His inner plan
And makes it known to man;
Take the little leaf in your hand,
And you will understand.
See the worm lying there,
He was suffering and in despair,
He was up there on the tree
Breathing heavily,
The rays of the sun were so intense
His discomfort was immense.The sun is roasting me!
So I commanded the angel right away
To send the wind along its way
And the twig began to sway
And the little leaf was torn away,
And so the sequence was complete,
Shielding the worm from burning heat,
And for the tiny worm,
Sleep was never so sweetHippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia means the fear of long words.