daniela

I use extra-virgin olive oil and peel most fruits and vegetables year-round and I never craved peels or corn oil (which by the way is not very healthy). Back to Pesach, as I am sure your Rabbis taught you, Askhenazim are forbidden to eat kitniyot but may eat food cooked and served in keilim used for kitniyot, in fact, even a grain of rice that should fall in the Askhenazi’s dish is no concern at all (if it’s not dissolved but is still recognizable as a seed, he has to put aside and avoid eating it). In the old world, Askhenazim have been eating in Sefaradi homes for centuries during Pesach, and Sefardim have been eating kitniyot in Askhenazi homes during Pesach for centuries as well. Please explain us why refraining from ***kitniyot*** makes a kitchen more “Askhenazi-friendly”.

“Yes, in some cases where a pt. is suffering the Rov will permit a DNR -in some cases not. The pt’s. desire is Not given that much consideration. Every case has to be judged up individually! That’s why there are Rabbonim that deal specifically with End of Life issues. It’s Not for your LOR to decide these questions!”

Health – I agree – but the point is, a Rabbi and posek may allow a DNR when it is halachically permissible, but will hardly ever approve a DNR unless the patient has made clear his/her wish and intention not to be resuscitated. I have no idea if the patient (I assume a nonjew) signed a DNR when entering the facility, and (if she did) whether that was what she wanted to be done or if she was factually coerced (ie lack of similar facilities with a different policy). This seems to me a relevant point.

If she wanted to be left alone and die peacefully, I can respect that (also, it’s usually less of a problem halachically, because once we start life-support aggressive measures, by the time doctors realize they are futile, they are already in place and respirators outside Jewish hospitals don’t usually have the 24 hours button); but if so, why call emergency services? Why divert essential services who might have been needed elsewhere? Why give grief to the human being who answered the telephone and what did he do to deserve having to stand by impotently while someone was dying, he will keep dreaming and daydreaming this for years, possibly for the rest of his life. The nurse should have held her hand in silence or saying whatever she felt was fitting to the circumstance. Regardless of religion or lack thereof, it seems to me it’s totally disrespectful to stay needlessly on the phone while another human being is dying.

If it was not what the old lady wanted, then it’s not murder, but it surely is despicable. I don’t care to divide the responsibility among the nurse, the facility administration, the government, the voters – it’s despicable. May those people care for each others, and may we and our loved ones never meet them when we are unwell or “simply” very old.

PS Of course I fully realize an employee, if caught, jeopardizes and sometimes loses their job by not “following protocol”. There are many nurses who are unafraid of breach of protocol in regards to (at best) increasing certain drugs’ dosage against medical orders, and as a side effect hastening death.

“You cannot build a society of moochers and expect it to work. Plus, neither the Lakewood Mashgiach, nor yourself, have the right or ability to determine what is a legitimate theological premise and what isn’t.”

*This* is what it really is all about, isn’t it. Not the quinoa and not the corn derivatives. Otherwise you would enjoy not only quinoa and corn, but all kitniyot (aren’t you sefardi? so you are permitted to eat kitniyot, right?) and let everyone else follow their own Rabbi. But the very existance of observant Jews upsets you, and you start with quinoa – and aim at unlearned people, those more likely to be on the internet – and then it turns out chometz gamur is no problem. You don’t even say so in an open manner like the Reforms do, but claiming this is the “halacha”. That’s why some people want all of our children to go in the people’s army, despite the army brass having clearly stated they don’t need or want more people, much less people who request special accommodation.

Avi K you don’t think those people would become jobniks in the IDF at the taxpayer’s expense, at a much higher stipend and even the coffee machine, where they would station all day long, would be paid by the state; would that be better? Why so? And why it’s so difficult to get rid of conscription and move to a volunteer army as all other modern countries, and then no yeshiva or kollel would have to worry about those people being drafted if they are not registered?

Thank you a lot, you and your family should have countless blessing from your baking on Erev Pesach. It is an unforgettable experience, it’s very moving and it’s unfortunate that we are so ignorant it’s unfeasible. I recall being told that 18 minutes is really a spiritual number and a fence against the strict prohibition, that we don’t get chometz gamur at 18 minutes, but that we have to go by the 18min and be careful and as you wrote, in 7-8 minutes (and a lot of sweat) it’s finished, if there are enough people one can do a little bit quicker (6 min or so, if I recall right). As for the salt, I remember asking as a child, it’s clear that old-style salt is wet and thus we never use in Pesach cookies (those we make with flour and egg / oil / honey etc) but modern salt, what is wrong with it, and could we not put it in the oven so we make sure it’s dry? Even non-shmura flour (fit for Pesach) may have a little bit of humidity and we are not concerned. I was told this too is a spiritual concept, and I was told something about not using salt and water to bake (which we may imagine is ok to do in a similar way it is possible to add fruit juice or egg or wine etc. to matza – my grandfather was Sefardi) lest it quickens the process. I can’t remember the details, years later I asked Rabbis and I was told we don’t use salt, not even if it’s completely dried, to bake Pesach cookies; and in regards to matzot and salt, my husband has never heard about it, he was not told is forbidden nor is permissible. Sadly there is no one left to ask, from either families. Thank you again.

Thank you for twisting my words into their exact opposite, thus enhancing the need for a professional English teacher to proofread each one of my posts. I’ll make sure to hire one at the next available opportunity. In the meantime please notice that I meant to say that what happens to us in this world of falsities is partially, but not completely, determined by our moral choices, and it is not at all determined by our preferences e.g. if we have chocolate or vanilla icecream, or whether we choose to be a lawyer, a plumber, or a soldier (all of them honest jobs and all of them necessary to every society). As for our enemies, they already made their (im)moral choice and have decided they are out to murder us G-d forbid, the only doubt is whether they will be successful or whether they will fail, and it is Torah, mitzvot and chessed who determine the outcome, not the IDF budget. Draft the haredim, harass those who do serve in the army (see story in today’s front page of this very website), and watch the country crumple. Mightier enemies did.

Truthsharer, of course you are trying to make a point, you are seeking to suggest the two cases are not different. Let me help you with the differences.

An accident may happen to anyone, and — may it never happen to us or our loved ones, neither as victims nor as drivers — in an accident it is unfortunately possible to hurt another human being. Sometimes severely (especially if we are driving a vehicle much heavier than the other vehicle, or if they are walking or biking). There is always negligence involved in every accident, we are supposed to be driving in such a way that even if someone else makes a mistake or is reckless, we still are able to stop and avoid the accident. Unfortunately, no one of us drives like that, especially not in NYC and any other city, also because if one did, everyone else honks. Thus, a terrible accident R”L may happen to any of us.

That a person recklessly plays with firearms and kills someone, goes to prison, after serving a few years he still drives recklessly and under the influence and gets a citation, a few days later he is again driving someone else’s car (could not he ask the lady to drive?), drives at twice the speed limit in a busy area, a terrible accident happens (and he fled the scene), is not something that might happen to a normal, decent person, whether jewish or not.

If someone suffers or if someone does not suffer, it is not according to our decisions, much less according to the arabs decision. For unfathomable reasons suffering exists, even though we also have a few very understandable reasons that are enumerated and we should try to improve. It is written on Rosh Hashana and sealed on Yom Kippur. What we can decide is whether our suffering will come at the hands of the antisemites or if R”L it will come to happen at the hands of (misguided, sick, evil) fellow Jews. We can also decide if we should be pushed to do aveirot by a fellow Jew and push them to do aveirot, or if we should run away from such situations. I try my hardest to help if I can and if I can’t help I am at least careful not to damage, and I try my hardest not to put stumbling blocks. In the Medinat this is not always easy to achieve.

I fully realize motor vehicle accidents happen and I also fully realize that even gross negligence is not murder. I also fully realize criminals and even murderers are entitled to legal counsel, in fact I remarked I don’t blame him for seeking legal counsel before police arrest him: it can make a big difference and, as akuperma wrote, being experienced of how criminal law works, he is aware of that. However I wonder what happened to the girl you mention (I don’t remember the story) after the terrible accident (may none of us and our loved ones ever get involved), I would think she is now married with children and drives carefully, or perhaps was so shocked she gave up driving altogether. On the contrary that person has already been negligent with a gun and killed someone, was driving under the influence a few days ago, his own mother told reporters she does not want anything to do with. You can’t compare two completely different incidents, especially not in order to make a (questionable) statement of principle.

You think some women have brains? Thank you so very much, I would never have known otherwise. Does that hold also for those of us who dare contradict you?

Thank you a lot twisted pretzel. May I ask you when is it the latest one may batel the wet flour before it becomes chometz. Also, this is a big help as it guarantees we won’t own or benefit in any way, but still there is a problem as it may contaminate. I think if there is no wooden fire, the easiest is throwing in the toilet, pouring bleach or similar, and flushing, then washing everything we used with nonedible detergent, all this well before 18 minutes. One can do very quickly, of course one at a time.

We are not doing, this is just discussion for its own sake. Thank you a lot.

GAW so you are of the opinion that many or most Zionist Israelis consider Torah study a waste of time, even worthless than the empty and unreliable Arab promises? I did not believe things were *that* bad, but you may be right.

I think the focus should not be on the number or percentage of victims in the last 60 years versus those before a significant Zionist presence was established, but rather on the next 20-30 years.

GAW If the Medinat Israel can collect taxes and fees from Israeli and very zionist citizens, employers, corporations, and then trasfer them to the Palestinian Authority e.g. as work taxes towards retirement, even in front of huge and again HUGE debt of such PA + its open involvement into and promotion of terrorist activity and anti-israeli activity, I do not see why this should not be possible for Haredim.

If you bake matza on erev Pesach, your main problem is not the oven, it is the leftovers and everything. You have to get rid of all the wet flour residues, as well as any doubtful that you think are in the oven already but might not be going to cook properly, well before the 18th minute; and “getting rid” in our house (not in a matzo bakery) must be carefully thought out and arranged, also it does take some time. I don’t know how many people are working on it – this is a very important variable. I would advise to practice before Pesach baking matza with the oven or appliance you plan to use. Of course, the hotter the better.

Oh! Now Israel, the jewish motherland (fatherland?), the safe haven of persecuted jews, is compared to hostile countries such as Egypt, Turkey, Syria? By a committed zionist, no less?

The open internet is not the proper place to discuss how citizens (not necessarily jewish) adjust to such legislation. Suffice to say it’s done not very differently than Jewish Israeli citizens who do not wish to be doing military service, and who wish to work, rather than being full-time Bnei Torah.

PS In the middle-eastern democracy, non Jews with a similar plan for their life do not have any problem. Strange democracy, are some people more equal?

mdd, what makes you so angry? We are not Israeli citizens and we do not want to be. You want so badly to draft charedim, go ahead, I believe the country will collapse, but, whatever suits you. As for how to do if we should be drafted, and the USA does not draft since 1972 (the last ones were not sent to combat and not even overseas), we are not asking you for advice.

Chillul Hashem in the eyes of whom? I am becoming really curious. Are the goyim supposed to hate Jews who do not serve in the military? Such hatred does not seem to be arousen in regard to other minorities who refuse military service and that are viewed with sympathy. I don’t recall protests about Baha’i for example, not by israeli nonjews and not by zionists. And are we talking about Israel, or other countries? In most other countries there is not even the shadow of a problem, as military draft does not exist and/or conscience objection is an option.

All sort of religious minorities routinely did and do, among the last people to get in trouble for that in a Western country let me mention Mohammed Ali, that was a LONG time ago. J witnesses – you can ask them something useful, next time they show up with their propaganda material – say that even countries that formally have a strict draft e.g. in Africa, and even under difficult circumstances (wars), usually attempt to intimidate people, but then quietly dismiss. People don’t like to have unmotivated people in their armies, such ideas have the potential to spread. Their only concern is to keep it hush, lest too many people avoid military service, hence the problems e.g. in South Korea where recently some objectors have been jailed (j witnesses object to civil service as well).

May I mention that also in Israel, religious minorities routinely are exempted and no one bats an eyelash? Hmmmmm.

mdd, in the past i.e. since Napoleon made it popular to have draftees instead of professional soldiers and throughout WW1 and beyond, Jews defied those laws, and the penalty was immediate death.

Snowbunny I am so sorry for how you are being treated, and I think you should not argue with those people, and instead pack and leave that place, use the money for your own expenses (accommodation etc), make flight arrangements, and of course ASAP make sure your rabbi in the states, and those who naively donated, become aware of what goes on. I wish you much success in life in all your endeavours, and that very soon you can build a family and be overwhelmed with the happiness you deserve. Those sick and evil people, ignore them and cut them off your life forever.

Zahavasdad I agree with you completely on what you write, but not on it being surprising. I hate to write, but the BT business is a huge business, especially in EY. Beware beware beware, when it’s “only” hurt feelings and some money loss, one should move on with life, and realize it could have been much worse.

Thank you takahmamash, please post recipes, we always need some non-chometz ideas for the last few days before Pesach 🙂

With the wide availability and affordable price of olive oil, I think the interest for certifying peanut oil for Pesach has faded. Do you use it for something in particular, whose taste is diminished by sostitution? As I am sure the question shows, I am not used to cooking with peanut oil.

Sam2 thank you a lot. Actually I heard they also prepared and ate acorn bread all over Europe in bad times and during famines, but that it’s very bitter and the tannines have unpleasant side-effect. Naturally this put me off when I first heard about the native americans acorn bread, but I was told that tannin content varies and is typically lower in american species than in european ones, and most important this is why the acorns must be soaked for weeks in a bucket, sort of like olives. Then they are ground and the flour can be used. I have never eaten, but I am told that it’s not disgusting and not bitter at all, but not very good either. I don’t think I would be very interested in acorn bread year-round and much less on Pesach, but the question is interesting. I think that if anyone was eating acorn bread on Pesach, the situation must have been bad and likely, bad enough that kitniyot were allowed for everyone.

With quinoa I see various problems. First, we need to avoid grain seeds, and that is bad enough but I think by checking carefully is solved. The second and to me much more worrisome is that we have no clue if we have dust which contains chometz and/or grain flour (even worse, because we’d create chometz during Pesach while cooking the quinoa) and the Sefaradi method to check it, is a problem, because with rice or lentils etc. the three checks are good to ensure we only pick the rice seeds and leave any dust behind, but how to do that with tiny quinoa seeds? We have to take a handful and no matter how careful we are, I don’t think this is a reliable check. This problem I think can be overcome only by certified quinoa that has been nowhere near grain or chometz, and it should be certified by someone very trustworthy. At this point for Sefaradim it’s fair enough, but it seems to me it’s not trivially permissible to Askhenazim arguing that it’s new; exactly because it’s new, most people don’t have a minhag of eating it and need to rely on authoritative opinions, but it takes time and it takes consensus. May be we can also consider how long it took from cocoa and coffee becoming known, to them being considered KLP.

“It’s because corn means grain”

Sam2, interesting, I never heard, I wish to ask you, do you know opinions about the status of acorn? (The seed of the oak)

I would think that is a sort of nut, not a seed, although of course no one in my family ever ate, and also, preparation for Pesach is impossible unless strictly supervised (I know some native americans eat the acorns, but they soak them for weeks). Thank you

snowbunny, I am so sorry about all you are going through. You are now vulnerable and weak, it is very sad someone is bullying you, I know you are seeking for someone to talk to, as it is apparent in this very coffeeroom, and that you seek someone who is observant and do not feel connected with your not-as-religious-as-you-wished family in USA, in fact it seems to me you don’t even feel connected with MO and are seeking to become more yeshivish and blend into a community which is very different from the lifestyle you grew up in. I am also aware the community you wish to join does not necessarily appear always welcoming to newcomers.

However please I beg you, you will no doubt do very soon if that is your wish, but please, be very careful at this time, you now need support, you need money, and most of all, you need reliable people who take responsibility for what they do, and who don’t disappear – or worse, R”L, hurt you – when you need them most.

It is my opinion you should take a break from seminary and talk in person to your family, your rabbi, your former teachers, your doctors in USA. You need to straighten out your life, medical problems included, and if/when you decide to return in seminary (or anything else you may want to do in life, I would tell you the same if you were going to college) it always needs to be done from strength and never from weakness, lest evil and sick people take advantage of you, and I am sorry to say these people exist even in Eretz Israel.

It is unfortunate that some frustrated people are taking out on you their problems, and I wish them a refua shleima, but your note will not help, what will help is those closest to you being aware, and then you and your parents talking to your rabbi, who I am sure helped you with phone calls and letters, and have him check into what is going on, and then he will call the rabbis who run your seminary and will call those who generously donate (those people trust me would be pretty mad, if they knew some fools use their money to make you miserable, they are giving generously because they want to do a mitzva) and things will be straightened out when you return to that seminary or to any other seminary.

Equally important, other girls (next year’s) will NOT have to suffer, THANKS to you.

Please at this time don’t talk to new people no matter how well-intentioned, please don’t ask advice from people who don’t know you yet, please talk instead to those who are aware what a long way you have come and what tremendous difficulties you overcame, and who have been supportive of you throughout your troubles, when you needed support even more than you need right now. They will help.

Aren’t we running a little bit too fast to conclusions? We have a Yid and his family – it’s Shushan Purim in Yerushalayim – his parents are pouring him whisky and other liquor (did we not all do the same? Unless of course they are too young for that, but the young man is 30). We also learn he habitually likes drinks (he is not a Muslim, thank G-d). On a public forum on the internet this person is painted as an alcoholic (!!) an undiagnosed mental health patient (!!!) and from there we proceed to insinuate he may be dangerously violent (!!!!)

Excuse me, may I ask how would we all feel if it were us? If a similar post had been written in regard to ourselves and we came across it and recognized that it is meant to describe us? What about the sheer terror that *someone else* recognizes us, or rather, the distorted picture which is being painted, and that unfortunately, human beings have a weakness to promptly believe?

Please, enough. If the young man was totally drunk on Shushan Purim, kol ha kavod, it is a mitzva. If (IF) he drinks too much every day, none of us can help and thus we have no business discussing it.

I think it’s time for this discussion to be closed and for us all to try and be a little more careful before hitting the keyboard.

The Shulchan Aruch if I am not mistaken says to make yourself a rabbi (as opposed to picking leniencies from here and there) and I don’t recall it saying imposing anyone’s opinions, even legitimate opinions, upon others. Much less does it suggest R”L to despise those who hold different than your hypotetical rabbi (aka Rabbi Google) and mock them as “frummer than”.

I checked with OU. They don’t consider regular US salt pesahdig, because the iodization process involves corn, they don’t advise it and certainly don’t certify it. They told me it’s really kitniyot and not chometz gamur, but obviously, Askhenazim don’t eat kitniyot and most include corn among kitniyot. Pure sea salt is obviously acceptable for Pesach, but in the US is mainly available as the coarser “kosher salt”, of course one can buy finely ground sea salt (non-iodized), but one has to be aware of the issue and to look for non-iodized salt.

Some sorts of sugar may also have corn starch or traces of it.

If you eat corn, enjoy. But many people don’t, and don’t eat corn derivatives. If you think you are qualified to pasken for yourself, it is none of my business, but please don’t try to be “helpful” with leniencies which are not necessarily acceptable. Our rabbis are perfectly capable of telling us leniencies and they don’t enjoy making us miserable for Passover, as you seem to insinuate. Shops also are there to make a living as well as to offer us products that lighten our workload and that allow us to enjoy a variety of foods. If you think that checking quinoa – for those who eat it – is easy and fun, it is obvious you do not know how to check it properly, it is obvious you are assuming that you only have to check for wheat kernels, please ask your Sefaradi grandmother to check for you a handful of quinoa, and watch her. Besides, your comments on price-gouging do not deserve a reply.

It is also interesting you rely on the OU when you find it convenient, but then you appear to be following Sefaradi minhag, and as I am sure you know, Sefaradim can not rely on the OU, as there are OU certified products which are not acceptable for Sefaradim. Please check with your Sefaradi posek and/or with OU themselves.