daniela

Oh come on. I may be a yukel but I had never heard the word yukel before. Kol HaKavod to Asians who read here and who are fluent in yiddish, they sure are smart enough to frame the discussion. BTW I just asked someone and i was told budhu means naive, it is not flattering but not an insulting word either. It is more like “naive” or “foolish” than like “stupid” or “idiot”. The lady with the strawberries, assuming she did not fill a basket which had been half-emptied by previous thieves (in which case it is proper to ask an employee to do, or go to the cashier) is outright geneiva, why do some feel the need to badmouth and post something totally unrelated? She is a bad woman and stay away from her.

TheBearisBack my apologies but sometimes over the internet it is hard to figure out what’s behind a post.

Since this is not a beis midrash but, after all, a coffeeroom, I’ll take the liberty to write. I am female, I go shopping 🙂 I was taught that even people who have deities etc. normally we don’t treat like ovdei avodah zarah as long as they have some idea (possibly very distorted) that good is different from bad and that good is preferable to bad. Thus, if we see a pagan nazi y”sh etc etc, but for just about everyone else (hindu, catholics etc) we stop, try to help and call 911 even in the middle of nowhere. For a mistake like that or extra change, and where the mistake is absolutely not ours, I believe we keep and say nothing. We can return the extra item or extra money or offer to pay the lid, if doing so gives monetary gain (e.g. expected discounts in future) or good-name gain which is larger than the price of the lid (or extra change, or whatever). I believe it is assur to return the lid to the nonjew, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, because it makes us feel good to do so.

Let’s face it, she won’t be perfect either. But she will be perfect to you. You will be the perfect one for her. Dont worry

FWIW (I don’t presume to be giving useful advice, it is a very delicate matter) if it were me, I would not go out of my way to seek this person. But should it happen that I speak to him, I would ask how he deduces, say, from the assumption that God does not exist, which is an abstract idea, statements such as “eating shrimp is fine” or “stealing is fine”. He is likely to reply that he does not think at all that stealing is fine – because it hurts another human being, or something like that – OK awesome you’ve found many points of agreement, same applies in regard to not hurt another human being etc. As for seafood and sausages, he may say that he likes that food (stay silent, let him draw his conclusions, that he is seeking to justify something he had already decided to do) or maybe he says that he tasted them and they are awful and will never eat again (that’s not the best, but better than some), or maybe he will say why should I refrain? It’s told to us in the Torah, but the Torah was not written by God…. oh wait, which God? let him get into confusion. To such remarks, just reply the discussion should not involve God which we can not prove or disprove, that whoever wrote the Torah appear to you pretty bright and smart and he is free to disagree but has to support his point. Always bring back the discussion to concrete situations and keep asking whether he can prove that a life with the “pleasant” aveirot he lists (tell him to list them) is more fulfilling than one without. From time to time also keep telling him that you greatly respect decent atheists and that the same respect is taken for granted in return.

I don’t think it will change his outlook but I do think it will help him feel he is being taken seriously, it may make him think (and possibly change his mind about some very minor details, but who can weigh a seemingly small mitzva) and given the situation with his son, it is very important that he does not go “out to battle” against the observant people, if you can convince him the world is wide enough for all sort of people, life for his son will be much easier. Be Hatzlacha.

I would recommend getting an ipad / ipod which can be jailbroken and thus it’s possible to install filters for security and protection from garbage which on mobile devices is even worse than on computers. You can ask someone to do for you and it should not cost more than a token amount. Obviously make sure the person who sets it up is available in the future, and keeps your root password, for any changes you may want to do to the device.

DaMoshe have you run out of nice decent nonjews who know manners and who do their utmost best to be respectful, that you need to defend the indefensible? A racist waitress who unloads her hatred for the jewish people, especially those who insist on living like jews instead of entering the melting pot, upon someone (your family) who were particularly nice with her? And during work, no less? Yes, I believe what you say, that she was polite and nice to you and your family. Does it take so little to blind you?

We all know educated, elegant, polite African-Americans who are successful doctors or lawyers, and I am sure we all at some point heard some of them elaborate upon how much they despise the african-american “culture”. Not the same thing by a far cry: the african-american mindset, where crime and prison is an adulthood rite, is unacceptable to decent humans of whatever skin color, while the frum culture is unacceptable only to antisemites. Yet, does that mean it’d be appropriate to say “Wow, you guys are nice! Usually African-American customers are pretty disgusting to me, but you guys are different.” Had the waitress said so to a table of elegant African-American upscale professionals who went to Ivy League colleges, what do you suppose would happen? how do you suppose they would react? Notice, this is regardless of the sad fact that there are plenty of criminals, addicts and bums among african-americans, which inevitably translates into prejudices.

But I am more interested about how you would react. Would you find it acceptable, had you been out for dinner with a dark-skinned colleague (jewish or nonjewish, african-american or not; but dark-skinned and thus assumed to be an african-american by a waiter) and had your waiter spitted out the same rant about some imaginary or real rude afro-american customers? Or would you have been insulted and offended and enraged, despite your (I assume) white complexion? If your son were to tell your muslim colleague who comes for dinner “you are so nice, but the rest of Arabs are disgusting”, would you be proud of him? Is that how you teach your children? If not, if you teach them like all of us, that there are many arab terrorists (ie, not rude people who however pay premium $$$$ for their lunch, not even small thieves or pushers, but despicable beings who blow up or butcher R”L children and old ladies and pregnant women and then celebrate and dance) and yet this is no reason to insult our fellow human and they should be respectful — why is it suddendly fine, and actually, worth rebroadcasting in a positive light (!!!), when Jews are insulted?

I also wonder why does the waitress who takes issue with kosher customers, happen to serve most of them? Do all of the “nice” waiters in that restaurant take issue with kosher customers and she is the most junior? Or is there another reason? Either way, an interesting tidbit to ponder.

The only person lacking derech eretz is the employee. I would have left no tip and talked to management.

I have no idea if she had had whatever discussion with some jewish-looking customer (who could have been anyone asking for kosher food, actually) and if so, whether the customer was right (I notice there was some mistake in your order, so she doesn’t appear to be the epitome of professionality), or whether the waitress was. Let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that some customer was rude to her. This is no reason to call an ethnical group “pretty disgusting to me”. The lady would never dare making such a comment about African-Americans, would she. If she did, she would be made to regret it sorely — and she would fully deserve whatever unpretty consequences would be coming to her.

He is not the sort of boy I would be comfortable with knowing he has a weapon, is he.

The Torah of truth does not advice that children should be rewarded if they do wrong and does not suggest we forbid the permissible. You can keep following that path and you can be sure things will not improve.

For all the curious readers, I have children. They are golden and they are smart, even though, of course, far from being even close to their teachers, let alone being compared G-d forbid to the Rishonim, to whom even the gedolim of our generation can’t compare.

I would imagine a number of people besides Ana Mia have noticed that the thread is problematic on many levels. Some, in fact, posted their doubts some months ago, while others kept their doubts to themselves. It is my opinion that moderators should have closed the discussion a long time ago.

Perhaps you can also have someone talk to the family and insist he is brought to kvura as soon as possible. Do you know if the family is trying to, or even if they are willing, to give him a jewish burial? Even if your Rabbi did not personally know him, he will help; you are willing to ask the CR, and no one here knew the man; you no doubt can ask your rabbi the same question. It is a complicated issue.

Is it not quite self-evident that “Sheva Brachos” was a joke? I am starting to realize how the most absurd slander against haredim does not seem to get questioned.

Two millions protestors according to the organizers, a few hundreds according to police.

TY shein, done 🙂

Are you suggesting she said (the post does not say “shouted”) shana tova with a smile through a thick window? A timid person who the previous days did not dare talking to them, nor knocking on the door, would now shout through the window at people (men) who are praying?

The story is no less beautiful if some details were embellished or misunderstood (I have not accused Aurora of being false; perhaps those people are conservadox, who have been very nice and kind and who did a big mitzva, and were dressed for yom tov, and Aurora is not expected to be able to discriminate, but readers are). The story is cheapened if we force reader to accept all details even when they don’t add up.

more_2 has noticed what we all noticed, if these are “orthodox jewish men”, there are halachot about praying outside when a building is available. Not to mention it is “uncommon” to go on vacation for the high holidays, rent a house on the ocean front (and clean it up: when?) especially for someone that ordinarily lives in NY/NJ, have children play on the beach on yom tov, etc etc. But they must consider themselves very holy, if they have no need of a minyan for Rosh Hashana, perhaps they feel they were sealed the previous year already?

I did not want to ruin the warm fuzzy feeling, and I was taught that not everything we think needs to be said, but let it be a reminder to use a grain of salt or two, in regards to what we read. Especially on the internet.

Dear readynow:

regardless of how abhorrent a reform jew may be, the halacha regarding moser is in full force.

Please also do not misuse the words of the Rishon Le Zion since I don’t recall people advising Aurora to go to the “building” the reforms use, in fact I recall posters clearly recommending not to go. In addition, the Rabbi is obviously referring to people who are definitely jewish for all halachical purposes. Aurora needs to go to a Rabbi and clarify her status, and then all decisions will be easier. Incidentally, even in the event someone were non jewish, the conduct outlined in the beginning of my post would be a very serious problem.

A Rabbi might tell someone not to worry about dishes and cutlery, but what about pots? My humble advice to someone who wants to buy kosher meat, is not to touch anything in the kitchen for a full day (go to the restaurant) before buying kosher meat for the first time, and get a new pot for it. It’s not my place to teach, but if someone advises to cook kosher meat in the pot previously used with butter (assuming we believe it ever happened, because I have never seen a jew who was so unintelligent) that person would be some huge am haaretz and arrogant boor. That person should have answered “I do not know”.

Dear Aurora

we can chat with you and give you whatever little support we can, and we are happy to, but nobody can give you serious help on the internet, you have to contact a reputable orthodox rabbi with experience in this kind of problems, tell him the facts you know about your family, and let him sort everything out. You are in a very complex situation: first you have to prove, according to jewish law, that you are jewish (the rabbi will explain you how this can be done), then after jewishness is established there are other subtleties, which I am not sure it’s appropriate to discuss on the cofferoom nor do I feel I should dare in my ignorance to discuss. These are very delicate questions that have to be addressed by a rabbi who knows all the facts.

I am sure you will have no problem in finding a husband who is as passionate as you are about cats: as others have said, there are many such people, even though they are not the majority, but you need only one husband.

readynow, I grew up with a very clear sense (not perfect, but yet) of what is forbidden and what is permissible, and I have the strong impression it is the same for you, as well as for those people you mention, that they learned in a few days. One thing is a person who grew up frei and his/her parents made him/her aware of all the laws but ignored or mocked them (some laws, anyway, as there are frei yidden who risked a lot on their neighbour’s behalf), and he/she now wants to become observant, fair enough. But here, the problem is that Aurora does not know what to do. She was previously eating nonkosher meat, which is forbidden, no question. Suppose she now makes an effort and buys kosher meat and cooks it in a pot with milchig taste (not spoiled) – is this any less forbidden? or is it a *more* serious transgression? Are we helping this person, or what? And, judaism goes well beyond the kitchen. You realize that Aurora is in a very delicate job, and nobody here is qualified to comment about it and about the halachic ramifications. However, due to the fact she mentioned living in a town with conservative and reform “synagogues”, we can infer there is a significant jewish community in her town, be it unaffiliated, affiliated to non-halachic groups, or even intermarried / baptized / whatever but still jewish. This makes it very important for a rabbi to get involved and to explain what Torah law says.

Neil Armstrong was confronted with the recording, having always maintained he said “a man”, and he admitted in TV he did not hear it either. He still insisted being sure having pronounced it.

Decades later, someone deconvolved the soundtrack (remember there is about 2 seconds delay and sound transmission was nothing like hifi) and claimed the “a” was there. I am not sure if anyone did a serious analysis of the voice processing, which would likely be inconclusive.

Dear Aurora

there is no such thing as a second-class jew. Or as the Lubavicher Rabbi (Chabad) said it, there are jews who do mitzvot (commandments), jews who do more mitzvot, jews who do even more mitzvot. You should keep that in mind, whatever you decide to do in the future.

I think you should focus on finding a jewish spouse. I know it is difficult in a place which does not have a big community and most people are reform / conservative / unaffiliated. But if you think fast forward 30 years, this will have enormous impact on your life and shape your future.

Have you thought of asking someone to come and help you and kasher your kitchen?

It’s very hard to give advice about shabbos without knowing you and what you find difficult, but perhaps you can post questions, many people try to answer and give different viewpoints and suggestions, hopefully you will be able to find some little piece of advice that suits you.

First of all, allow me to say I am heartbroken about your mother’s health issues and I wish her a complete recovery. I know words are empty when someone has serious problems, yet I care.

I think maybe you should ask someone in person and everything would be much easier. It’s not difficult to observe Shabbat for someone who wants to, while 200 years ago it was. But your situation is different, because you don’t know the rules and how to do. Also I would not discount the comment of zahavasdad, which asks you if you plan to get bored in the house for the whole day, possibly in the dark or in the cold. It is my opinion you have to think of the seemingly simple problems, because they are important in the long run, and make the difference in committment.

Are there other jews where you live? Consider that older people are likely to have had some sort of jewish education, also secular jews with secular parents used to; someone who is aware of the basic laws could give you suggestions. Take everything with a pinch (or a handful) of salt, it goes without saying; but you seem to be completely alone, which is tremendously difficult.

I have not understood why you are not asking a rabbi, and if it is your choice, or contingent problems (all of those can be easily solved).

The other thing I have not understood is what your mother thinks about all of this.

Dear Aurora

I try to outline a few basic points.

Meals should be either meat, or dairy. That means no meat is allowed anywhere close to dairy, not in cooking, not in serving, and viceversa. Meat also includes poultry. Meat (and poultry) needs to be kosher certified because it must be slaughtered and prepared in a specific way and by an observant jew.

For dairy, the cheese has to be kosher certified, but with milk or butter, you can rely upon the regular ones.

As I mentioned, you can eat fish in a meal with meat, but there are restrictions. You can’t cook them together and you can’t eat them together. If you wish to do that, you have to cook separately, then you eat the meat dish, then you eat something else (vegetables, eggs, bread) and then you eat the fish. You can also do the reverse order. There is no restriction with fish and dairy.

You don’t have to buy certified fish, but you need to be able to recognize kosher fish, because not every fish is. Or you can make a list of fish you ordinarily buy and have someone read it.

Eggs can be eaten with milk or with meat. Same with vegetables. When you buy them canned, the easiest thing is to search for kosher certified, which in fact are no more expensive than competitors. If you buy them raw and clean them, you have to check for insects and parasites. There are guidelines that you can find on the websites of reputable kosher certification agencies. You can also find on the internet plenty of discussions about the kosher status of coffee-based beverages. To tell you the truth, I only drink black coffee.

There is one more item which would require kosher certification, that is wine, grape juice, wine vinegar. The beers and liquors, as long as they are made from kosher ingredients (e.g. there is some tequila which includes a nonkosher, and disgusting, ingredient) do not require certification. Soft drinks, you can usually find them certified. Mineral water and sparkling mineral water does not require certification, but there are brands who have certification anyway.

There are restrictive rules on Pesach but that’s many months away 🙂

The other thing you should know, is that your kitchen cookware, dishes, etc. will eventually need to be rearranged, because it can absorbe nonkosher taste or it can create a forbidden mixture of milk and meat. Perhaps you should ask someone to do that in person, because it is difficult to explain over the internet.

Also, of course, nonkosher food (e.g. for the cats) has to be prepared separately and care should be taken when you use and store the food, the pots, etc.

I wish you much success!

To Aurora77: If you are planning to own other pets in the future, and you would like them to have that surgery, you have to ask a question, with all the details. You can no doubt ask it from Rabbi Amar and in the same letter, you can also ask for clarification of his previous rulings. You can also discuss the alternate procedures that were mentioned, which involve removing blood supply and thus have organs atrophize: it is my understanding they are intended for use in the very specific situations I outlined, in order to minimize violation in those cases in which it’s permissible to do. But of course I am no rabbi and I would never presume to teach. On the other hand I can tell, because I have seen people do it, that cats and dogs, and other animals which are kept for utility (bulls, horses, etc) or as pets, can have a long, healthy and happy life without being subjected to the surgery.

To The Chassidishe Gatesheader: I am sorry, I did not write the Torah. And the reason I would never willingly help in neutering or spaying pets is not that I find it cruel, it is that it’s forbidden. Moreover, I was taught we ask a question from our Rabbi and then we do what he tells us. I am willing to believe that’s exactly what you did, and that you were told you are allowed to spay and neuter all your cats, both males and females. But this does not completely help, because that’s not how I was taught. So, when I see a sick or wounded stray cat and I know I have the option, say, of making a phone call, you bet I won’t be calling anyone. I could tell stories about how a chiloni veterinarian agreed to something (and money was paid to secure that), then some person talked the vet into doing the surgery without notifying anyone, using a load of lies about it being permissible and a kindness to animals. I wonder if you would have an excuse for that, or if you find it as repulsive as I do.

Dear Aurora

first of all, thank you for sharing your amazing story, and I wish you a lot of success and happiness.

Please be aware there is no prohibition to own an animal who has been neutered or spayed. I am sure you would never had done that, had you been aware of the prohibition and had the animal been yours. You have nothing to regret.

On the other hand, according to most authorities, the prohibition also applies to nonjews, and so, we can’t give the cat to the nonjew and have the nonjew do the surgery for us, and we can’t even ignore the issue in the case we have no interest in taking back the dog or cat and the nonjew will keep it and we never see it again. This is one part of the problem, but – fair enough, one could find people who will not do. Most jews including chilonim are disgusted by the very idea, also there are nonjews (namely hindus) who have similar prohibitions and will not do. But then the second part of the problem kicks in: in western countries, veterinarians do not think this is appropriate, and will basically force upon the person, or even do it without their knowledge at the first opportunity and charge it to some or some other “animal welfare charity”. The only legal recourse is if the animal is a purebred, then one may warn, beforehand, that should it be spayed or neutered against our wishes, we’ll prosecute to the full extent of the law. But if the animal is no purebred, the law does not protect us in most countries and states.

Many shelters require spaying or neutering as a condition for adopting a pet: they have no problem with it remaining caged, and not even with killing it, but giving it to a loving owner who will not do – they don’t even want to hear about.

It is a crazy situation and we need people like you to speak up, of course it does not help that people like me complain, because I won’t adopt anyway. You have to know, Aurora, that many of us are not very attracted to pets, because we have families and can’t handle the extra workload (and who will wash the nonkosher dishes and where?), because we are overwhelmed with human beings and jews asking for help and we can’t help them all, let alone the animals, and also because we were raised in a different outlook from the mainstream western culture and many among us are not interested in pets. But the key point is that everyone’s rights and beliefs should be respected, which also will lead to better care for animals, because, as I said, so many times I would have phoned someone, or a shelter, or a veterinarian. Possibly I’d have even paid some money. I don’t, because the few times I did, it turned out a terrible disaster.

Let me tell you about the one time it worked out: the cat (female) was very old and had health troubles. Plenty of money had been spent on it previously. The owners were moving to another country, and brought with them another cat (its offspring) but this one did not comply with quarantine and import requirements. So the owners asked around, but could not find anyone, they cared very much for the cat (the very fact they spent lots of money on it, shows so) but they had no option, and in the end, arranged euthanasia. I am happy to say someone took the cat instead, and that it lived peacefully the rest of its life, and since the cat was old and sick, no one insisted with the new owners about sterilizing.

But unfortunately I could tell you very different stories, lots of those. In each one of these I did my best, and yet, it did not work.

No words from any of the animal-friendly readers about feasible options? Sometimes I see cats who are obviously abandoned house pets and won’t survive in the streets, I’d be happy to make a phone call.

Chayav misa? I suppose he was watched by two shomer shabbos adult male witnesses, fit to testimony, who warned him and he carried on, and that the abuse was a highly specific one and with certain specifications which we don’t detail because we either know it already, or the coffeeroom is not the place to learn such details. If not, then looks like it’s going to be a bit of a problem for those who accuse him of a capital crime.

And after all, we can’t impose penalties outside of Torah can we?