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Once you agree to go out with a girl, the shadchan will present your info, often in the form of a resume, to the girl’s side. If she agrees, you will then go out. Hatzlacha!
No
The FJJ had a picture of Rebbetzin Pam alongside Rav Pam in this past week’s paper.
Did anyone else notice this?
If it’s truly assur, it’s such a shame that someone can’t make an affordable kosher gym in Flatbush. Nothing fancy needed, just the basic cardio and weight machines.
It’s always funny when posters revive 3-year-old threads as if the discussion just started. 🙂
Majoring in molecular physics at Princeton is much more difficult than majoring in business at a community college.
There are bochurim with a strong desire to learn, that get degrees and go to work. They need the money. If they didn’t go to work or get their degrees, they would be learning in yeshiva 3 sedarim a day. That is the type of guy I’m talking about.
sem613: Are these girls in the 19-23 range, or older girls who are only considering these boys because they haven’t found success with the full time learners? Meaning, are they marrying the working ex-yeshiva boy lchatchila?
DY: I don’t think your answer is really a solution. So you’re saying that the best answer for hishtadlus is to do nothing and just collect tzedakah? At that rate of thinking, our community would be bankrupt before long. What if the bochur has a real degree and a real job and started working because he needs the money to get married?
There are plenty of bochurim that could get by on spending money for their basic expenses. But what about the cost of dating, engagement jewelry, and FLOP for the wedding? If the parents can’t support him, then the bochur needs to work to save up some money.
The way I heard it:
For a boy:
1. Has a Rav
2. Davens with a minyan 3x a day
3. Has a daily learning seder
For a girl:
1. Middos
2. Middos
3. Middos
And for the boy, 1a, 2a, and 3a are middos.
The reason why it has become more normal nowadays is because today’s frum society is unfortunately way too restrictive in allowing our bochurim to do things they really enjoy and have talent with. (I cannot comment on the girls of today. but I think they have their own meshugasim, possibly including watching a movie or two as well). How many shtark bochurim do you know that can have hobbies when they are holed up in the yeshiva the entire day? (Disclaimer: I am talking about the bochurim who shouldn’t be there all day when I use the term “holed up.”) Even during bein hasedarim (which, combined, might mean 4-5 hours over the course of the day/night), you won’t find too many boys today who are playing instruments, going for a jog or playing ball, working a small side job, reading interesting kosher books, or anything productive (remember: for 90% of bochurim, especially those who are 17, 18, 19, college is out of the question).
If a boy wants to get into playing an instrument, or a jog, or chess, or something, too often he is put down because of it. Instead, it is seen as better that boys should be learning 100 hours a day – even though 90% of boys are not cut out for this at all. This is why I think that boys should be allowed to go to kosher colleges, such as Touro, etc… (or even secular colleges depending on the boy). It is not a healthy environment for the boys to be hanging around in their dorms all day. We have often segregated the yeshivas who do more extra-curricular stuff as lacking, but the truth is that many of the more yeshivish yeshivas could benefit from having something for boys to do in their downtime. Is it so bad that the boy takes a couple of courses for a few hours twice a week, or maybe works as a lifeguard a couple of hours a week, or volunteers a couple of hours a week, etc…
Many guys will tutor other boys, but usually it’s the real top boys who are doing this.
When you are in a yeshiva all day, and one with a dorm, and nothing else to do but learn, that is why you see boys picking up these dangerous and destructive habits such as smoking, drinking, and watching movies or inappropriate material.
This is all coming from someone who knows the system very well. I do think that it is more common than people think for a bochur/yungerman to enjoy a movie sometimes, but maybe the issue is that the “top bochurim” of today doesn’t mean as much as it used to – because everyone nowadays goes to yeshiva in Lakewood, Mir, etc… – so you will obviously find it to be more prevalent now.
In short, the point of this post is to say that this type of behavior is more normal than you think, but it’s not necessarily indicative of so much. The fact that a guy learns in kollel does not tell you anything about the guy. The average quality of a yungerman 20 years ago as compared to today is starkly different, both because of the moral decline of society, and because there are too many mediocre boys in full-time learning for too long, that they water down the chashivus of our outstanding young future Rebbeim, who are truly amazing for what they can accomplish.
I remember once hearing a story of a teacher who made fun of something a Talmid said, and made fun of him by saying: ????? ?’ ?? ?? ?????
The student responded: ????? ?? ????
RebYidd23: I believe Azolis meant lots of garbage AND lots of weeds, not that weeds are garbage.
Only the first few minutes have no sound. Try to fast forward a bit and see what happens.
Maybe for some, it’s the lesser of two evils.
Compass (comes with the phone) for direction to Western Wall.
There’s also a new app out there that located Jews who want to make a Minyan and arranges minyanim.
Isn’t there something about seeing others’ faults when you yourself have that fault?
Peyton Manning
They may stop producing them, but that doesn’t mean that users won’t have the ability to use whatever phones are produced in the same manner as the current “kosher” phones.
Ivory
“If I may ask a personal question of a “working single”. Would you date a girl who is not thin?”
I think the point of your question is to compare a girl who is heavy to a boy who is working, meaning that each has a flaw that would make them second-class in shidduchim.
You are wrong. Assuming being heavy is a flaw (nothing personal, but it clearly is, whether you are a working guy or a learning guy), then that is a real flaw. A guy who is working has a “perceived flaw” by shallow girls who would rather be on government assistance than marry a guy with a chance to pay 4, 5, 6, etc… full tuitions. A real flaw and a perceived flaw are not comparable.
The reason it is a perceived flaw is because I’ve been in the major yeshivos, in the regular systems. Trust me that I know what I’m talking about when I say “perceived flaw” in that someone works. I’d much rather be a hard-working, productive person than be lazy. I am not talking about the real learners. I am talking about those who are officially in seder 8 hours a day and learn 3. That is a 37.5% learning rate (3/8). If someone has a couple of hours in his day and learns every night, that person is far more accomplished.
And according to most theories, a guy who is working and more influenced would seemingly have a harder time accepting a heavy girl. This is not true. No guy in general wants a heavy girl, no matter how yeshivish or not he is.
Kuh’aaaaaaaayyyhhhhh’leh!!!
Some of these questions are really nothing when you just apply basic logic (future LSAT takers, pay close attention!) and common sense.
“How can there be self-help “groups”?”
—- The people who are seeking help from the group want to do whatever it is themselves after seeking advice from the group. The group helps those who don’t want to physically solve the problem with other people’s assistance. Bad question.
“When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?”
—- The reason “cheese” is said when your picture is taken is because it forces you to use the same muscles you would use if you smiled. Thus, if cheese could talk, and could smile like a human could, it would also say “cheese”. Bad question.
“The more you study, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know… so why study?”
—- Come on now, really?! That’s a question? Let me give you an example of what you said by quantifying it. Let’s say that knowing something is 100, and knowing more adds on 75. And let’s say that for every additional 75, you forget 25. After all, you are forgetting more. Which is better: Knowing 100 and not forgetting that much, or knowing 150 and forgetting 25??? In another example, I would submit to you that the greatest quarterbacks in football have the most career incomplete passes. And we know that the more incomplete passes you have thrown, the less successful you have been. So does that mean that the best quarterback of all-time (Let’s say Joe Montana) is worse than Mark Sanchez because Monatan failed to complete passes more than Sanchez???!!! Certainly not! Bad question.
“If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?”
—- So centenarians eat people who are over 100 years now too??? Seriously, dude, you are comparing apples to oranges! A vegetarian deals with the life role of eating, and choosing to eat vegetables. Humanitarians are, wait for it, in the business of helping humans! Why are you bringing the argument that way?? In fact, once I say it your way, why couldn’t I argue the following: “If humanitarians help humans, what do vegetarians help?”
“If a man with multiple personality disorder threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?”
— Teiku 🙂
yerushalmi in exile: Nah, you’re just trying to rationalize it.
Bump
Rav Shlomo Pearl gives an excellent Halacha shiur every Sunday morning at the Agudah of Ave. L (corner of Ave. L and Nostrand Avenue) from 10 – 11 A.M. He goes through many very interesting topics and offers a great variety of opinions and sources, including many from Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L.
You can hear many of his shiurim online as well, and Agudah’s website provides a quick-link to his shiruim and handouts inside their website, at http://www.aibb.org//rav-shlomo-pearls-shiurim.html,
(Mods: Please allow the link.)
Wine can also have a shehechiyanu said on it, as well as the brachos of kiddush on Shabbos or Yom Tov.
They wear BLUE SHIRTS! (a nickname for the New York Rangers)
ding ding ding ding ding ding
Halacha: One must make a bracha rishona on eating any amount of food.
Minhag: Eating in the sukkah on Shemini Atzeres
Chumra: Not eating gebrochts (baked matzah dipped in water or other liquidy substances) on Pesach.
Shtus: PBA’s rants.
I think the minyan is at the kosher hot dog stand during the seventh-inning stretch.
Yes. It’s located in the heart of Flatbush. Rav Mordechai Joffen and Rav Yankel Drillman are the leaders of the yeshiva, officially known as Yeshivas Bais Yosef Novardok. It’s a mixture of guys, but many of the guys who I know who learn there have learned in places like the Mir in Israel. It’s not quite Lakewood, but there are many solid guys who either learn long-term or who eventually go to college and/or work. It’s a growing yeshiva, as I believe they recently unveiled plans to expand enormously.
bump
What happened to Toras Moshe (ToMo)? I have never heard of Portnoys.
It depends on the type of boy going. I think Senter’s is more the Flatbush/In-Town crowd.
Beis is a mix, combination of Chofetz Chaim type guys (but NOT CC guys) and out-of-towners.
Mercaz (Hatorah) may be the “new top place”, but the truth is that Mercaz has been around for many years. Perhaps now is when it is getting more recognized as an outstanding yeshiva. I think a lot of 5-Towns guys go there.
Hatzlacha!
Has the landscape of Lakewood changed even more since this thread was started 4 years ago?
Bump
A Snuggie
DaasYochid: Good One!
Does the same hold true for Zecher/Zachor L’Churban?
Just saw this thread and figured Pesach was a great time to revive it. Anyone notice the “ka’ayleh” pandemic growing, or is it pretty much the same as always?
I think that people generally get a lot of simcha out of doing it, so I don’t even know what to think.
bubbebia: I wouldn’t mind sending over my profile just to prove to you that we exist. Of course, it’s not easy to facilitate this over the Coffee Room.
I don’t know Adam3, but don’t believe he would object, though usually the girl’s resume is sent first.
As I said before, it is very often where girls will say no to a guy who is learning/college/working or some combo despite asking for that type.
Whoa, 23 is old!!! Yes, don’t wait under any circumstances.
No, it is inappropriate. Proposing is neither erusin nor kiddushin.
A mature girl who treats others with respect and kindness, no matter their socioeconomic or political status.
Someone who views halacha as a religious framework, not a burden.
Educated, and a good conversationalist with a thirst for knowledge and growth.
Well-rounded, sophisticated, and capable.
What is even more disconcerting is that so many girls who claim to be looking for guys like me will say no when they finally are redt something that makes sense.
But yes, as a whole, the guys not in yeshiva full-time will be *less likely* to want a home focused around Torah learning and Torah ideals.
Also, why do people always assume that getting married while in a Yeshiva will help set a precedent for the rest of the marriage? Is there any proof that this is, in fact, the case?
Logician: That doesn’t change the fact that working guys shouldn’t be considered second-class just because they aren’t in yeshiva all day.
And FYI, I know of many guys in yeshiva “full-time” who don’t learn more than 2 hours a day!
So who are the shadchanim to go to? Do we have any contact information?
It depends if the name is the same, or if the middle names differ. Also, it could depend on what people call the girl/mother.
Even if that is not an issue, it depends on the hakpadah of the parents.
I heard this once from a reputable Rav.