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You did what was right. Sunk costs are sunk. Good for you.
As a postscript (and I have posted this before), one of my friends is a Jewish author. You would not believe the hoops the author had to go through to discribe a “non romantic” relationship between two of the characters before they became frum. The publisher would not allow the use of the word “boyfriend” or “girlfriend”.
Personally, I think well of Jonathan & Faye Kellerman. I once read one of the Decker series books (that was what was there, and in a place where I couldn’t learn) and was quite impressed (although I can not vouch for cleanliness of any book for someone elses standards).
Shein: Still looking for a source, or do you concede?
The bus driver is driving. And a multi-ton bus. It is dangerous for him to get involved in conversations between passengers. A bus driver is not liable for their conversations.
I agree. However, if there is physical force implied or applied, the driver is responsible to pull over and call the cops, and be a witness when the offender is thrown in jail.
I really don’t see the issue in most cases anyway. Who goes from Will to Boro Park except Frum Yidden?
to clarify my answer a little, since it was a little muddled
ultimately the spouse would have to undergo a proper meaningful conversion or be dropped.
what to do if he still refuses, i dont know
I think that is a given. My question is do we reject the applicant because maybe the spouse will want to convert (or is even looking to “convert correctly”).
yes
that is also my opinion
With you I can have a discussion.
To be sure what you are saying (and I’m not saying right or wrong, I don’t know), you would be willing to reject a potential “kiruv” guy if he insists on attendning with his conservative “converted” wife? Or the opposite?
gavra: To become a baal or baalus teshuva, the person needs to leave the non-Jew they “married”. That can’t be compromised.
OK, that is your opinion. Anyone else?
Obaminator: interesting, but lets give a hypothetical (and your post was the first that I hear of this, so I have no negius one way or the other).
Imagine a couple, one side jewish, the other not really. If the halachic geirus of one side is an impediment to the other becoming a ba’al or ba’alas teshuva, should one push that both husband and wife should be miskarev, and a real geirus may have to be done to one side at a later date? Once again, your post just raised the idea, I had not thought about the issue before.
On previous occasions, gavra, you’ve posited that Artscroll biographies are not necessarily accurate historical records.
LOL. And Lishitascha that they are?
Besides, go back & read my comments on the issue. I’ve never suggested that they lie, I’ve just said they only include what we can learn from our Gedolim. They are not “all inclusive”.
gavra: All you have is some hearsay about Reb Yaakov.
It is in his artscroll biography.
I vote it is absolutely wrong to give out candy.
I would also vote so, based on all of the S’varos of Akuperma earlier (which I was aware of, but he pointed them out well). However, what we do is not subject to vote, S’varos, or what we “feel” is right. We, as Torah Yidden, follow our Rabbonim and Gedolim. And it is documented that Rav Yaakov gave out candy. So as much as I might not like it, I would do so as well. To not do so would be creating my own religion. This is part of “Shviras HaMIddos”, to follow the Gedolim even when you personally think it would be better not to do so.
Now of course, everyone should ask their own Rov. And if there is a documented case of a Gadol B’davka not giving (such as Rav Moshe, Rav Ruderman, etc.), then I would feel good about not giving. But otherwise, I would just be picking and choosing what I like, and would be as guilty as those who don’t like other things about Yiddishkeit and dismiss them.
(obviously, this is different than an actual mitzva or Takonas Chazal, such as saying Shelo Asasni Isha or the type)
IMHO, (and I know that I am a husband, but I would like to offer my opinion anyways,) if my wife looks stunning in a $2400 shaitel (& she does!)and she is happy with it and takes care of it, gezunterheit, may she wear it in good health and happiness for many years to come. When the boss is happy, everyone’s happy. Us men also have some expensive item to make US happy too: cars, electronic gadgets, tools, etc,(and yes, for some maybe even clothes). I think it’s very expensive, yeah, but if thats the going rate in that quality shaitel- go for it. So, what can I say, I love when my wife looks pretty and is happy.
This man’s wife is lucky to have him. Well said.
Everyone just keeps repeating themselves here. I am not a lawyer and dont pretend to know the laws involved here. What I am saying is there is a need to have a bus with seperate seating for this route. There are various bus routes along the tristate area which have seperate seating. If they have to privatize I’m sure they will.
Well said.
gavra_at_work: Thousands of Gedolim and RY DID NOT give candies on halloween. Probably in the range of 99.999% of them. You only have a daas yochid.
Joe, try me: Which Gadol that you know (in America, where there is no fear of death) did not give candy after having children knock on his door?
One documented instance?
“Halloween” (a contraction for “hallowed eve”, the evening preceeding “all saints day”) is a Christian holiday. The fact the some of the observances are based on the European’s pre-christian religions (what one calls “pagan”) doesn’t help, since a pagan is still “avodah zarah”. Giving candy to wearing costumes is part of the avodah of this holiday, so it clearly is avodah zarah. Arguably, among many secular people the holiday has lost its religious meaning, and especially among “gay” community has become a celebration of an un-pious lifestyle, which hardly is a heter from our perspective.
The correct way to deal with vandalism is to call 911 as it is a property crime that in some cities leads to life threatening situations (such as arson). Most goyim know not to go “trick or treating” at frum houses, and one should turn off the porch light to show that they are unwelcome.
Your point? Rav Yaakov still gave candy, even with all the good Cheshbonos.
Reb Yaakov used to give to those who rang his doorbell (offen the Artscroll)
I think the divide is between those who are frum first and part of their general society second, versus those who try to bend frumkeit to match secular social and moral norms so that they can blend in while keeping the bare essentials. The first are guided by Torah and daas Torah – the second by the society around them and dass baal-habayis.
The first group are defined as charedi by some. Still, you’ll find plenty of the former in MO, especially in YU. The latter are more socially frum than anything and you’ll find them at the margins of the yeshiva and chassidishe velt. Nevertheless, they are far more prevalent in the MO world.
However, those who profess the second as an ideology are found only in MO (and RZ in EY, where you still have a hard core for whom tzioinis is more important than Torah to the point they believe that Knesset decisions have the force of Torah).
Well said, but you have limited MO to the Orthoprax 🙂 But yes, people us “MO” as an excuse not to keep Halacha, rather than an actual Shitta (whatever that might be).
i would serioiusly discourage my wife from wearing it around anyonje but family. thankfully, she wont anyway cuz of her own standards.
See Toi, there is another we agree on.
It is more common than you think.
with me or at me? or am i better off not knowing?
Yup.
also, i do think its worse. i dont care how crazy right wing nutjob fanatic yeshivish kollel chareidi i am. im not being mima’it the chashivus of one jewish life, but the effects of every aveira that any yid ever did, is doing or will do with an apple product is echoing forever and being mashchis the world.
crazy right wing nutjob fanatic yeshivish kollel chareidi!!!!!
LOL
GAW- as long as your rebbe doesnt say anyhting…i wrote before, and i propose now, that your misreading; the reason why main stream rabbonim havent come out in force is because the majority of torah observing, Hashem fearing jews know this guys a wacko without any formal instruction.
Agreed (although wacko may be too strong, “misguided” may be nicer). Also I am decently sure (but not positive) that my Rov doesn’t belong to the RCA.
A computer placed in room which people constantly walk through.
3:00 AM also? When you are on “vacation”?
M. 80: Like a 64, just slightly bigger 🙂
Whatever makes you think that?
That does not concern me. I only care how I can be right in wanting to wipe out Amalek, while the Muslims are wrong in wanting to wipe out the Jews.
There are safe computers. The person you know may not have had one, but they still exist.
A Commodore 64?
Please tell me which computer you think is 100% safe.
PY: Because that raises questions as to how we look on in horror when an Islamic terrorist kills one of our children. He believes just as strongly that his religion is the only true one, and has commanded him to kill Jewish children R”L (case in point, the Fogel murders).”
MW13: Lishitasam they will always be correct, no matter what we do or say. That does not concern me. I only care how I can be right in wanting to wipe out Amalek, while the Muslims are wrong in wanting to wipe out the Jews. And I believe that problem is answered.
So you do not look on in horror, but are comforted that your religion is correct, and theirs is wrong?
A computer with filtered internet is not a danger.
So you are lead to believe. I also have a bridge I would like to sell you. Cheap! Excellent view of lower Manhattan.
No, I have a massive taynah against them; because their base belief is incorrect, everything they do in its name is wrong. And yes, I know they will say the same thing about us. So what it boils down to is who’s beliefs are right and who’s are wrong.
Put it this way: Two people have a first-class ticket on an airplane – for the same seat. The question of who gets the meals, who gets to sit, etc. are all dependent upon who’s ticket is real and who’s isn’t.
And yes, I realize that until Moshiach comes it will be impossible to convince the rest of the world that their base beliefs are wrong, but ani ma’amin bi’emunah shelaimah that this is the case. Therefore, I can and will live my life knowing that I have the real ticket, and therefore everything I do is completely justified.
Exactly. The action flows from the belief, so only the belief is challenged, not the resulting actions (directly).
AKA, Lishitasam, they are correct.
GAW- i think this ios the first time we ever agreed on something
I can think of at least a few more (such as the conservative thread last week). As far as the main point of the thread, I disagree with R’ Adlerstein, but only because who cares what the RCA thinks? Not me. Now if my Rov, Rebbe, Rosh, Moshgiach or Posek said something about it (such as with the Hechser Tzedek thing), then I’d probably care. In the meantime, they have to do what they think Hashem wants, and I will do what I believe Hashem wants.
do you think the amaleikim wont and shouldnt dislike us when you kill their children? let them hate us. we wont care. Hashem said to. your argument has no shaychis.
It has no shaychus for those who sincerely believe that Hashem is in charge, and had the Holocaust not happened, the 6 million would have died in another way. No Shaychus for those who believe that Hitler was a tool of the Ribbono Shel Olam, just like Paraoh (who granted, there is a discussion why Paraoh is blamed for something that Hashem decreed, but that is a different issue).
However, for the “never again” crowd, for those who blame the Hamases & Nazis of the world as if they have their own power and they are not a tool of Hashem, for them the arguement is strong. Because logically they are correct, based on their own reasoning. And on that point, you cannot blame them.
Gavra at work: I think that the difference, imho, is that men in kollel usually need the discount more than others. This is not to say that hatzoloh members or any other person doesnt. From a personal standpoint, we could really use the discount. Besides, i thought that the kollel discount was a store owners way of contributing his part to the ‘yisschar-zevulun’ partnership. Whereas the hatzoloh discount is when one shows appreciation. correct me if i’m wrong.
I hear you. One is giving Tzedaka, while the other is showing Hakoras HaTov. A person is Mechuyav in both.
Maybe 10 years ago or more it could have been considered fancy night gowns. But now, would you wear rhinestones, sequins, buttons, beads, and other fancy shiny stones to sleep in? I dont think so and if you did, that would be quite uncomfortable! What about the newest style-‘jumper robes’? which are sleeveless and you wear a shell underneath? Or the ‘wrap robes’? that have so much material one could have a very hard time sleeping in them? and of course, what about the price? who would sleep in a $200 (or more!) nightgown?!
I know nothing of this stuff, Boruch Hashem. If a Robe is really a Dress (by passing the “Dress duck test” then it is not a robe.
Or the other way I usually put it:
“For example, they grapple with how one can be commanded to kill a child of certain nations. This is a very serious question. It is compounded by the fact that simple answers like they will grow up to be wicked, is also a justification for the Jews killing our children.”
I don’t see the question. Wiping out Jews is right because Allah (Or Hitler) said it is (see Sahih Muslim). Killing anybody else is wrong for the same reason.
“So it is very convenient for the Wahabbi world to just smugly say that our religion says so, end of story. Because that raises questions as to how we look on in horror when an Israeli terrorist kills one of our children. He believes just as strongly that his religion is the only true one, and has commanded him to kill Arab children R”L.”
He can believe whatever he wants, but he his beliefs are mistaken. Therefore, all of the actions undertaken in the name of these mistaken beliefs are objectively wrong.
“For example, they grapple with how one can be commanded to kill a child of certain nations. This is a very serious question. It is compounded by the fact that simple answers like they will grow up to be wicked, is also a justification for the Nazis killing our children.”
I don’t see the question. Wiping out Amalek is right because Hashem said it is. Killing anybody else is wrong for the same reason.
“So it is very convenient for the Chareidi world to just smugly say that our religion says so, end of story. Because that raises questions as to how we look on in horror when an Islamic terrorist kills one of our children. He believes just as strongly that his religion is the only true one, and has commanded him to kill Jewish children R”L (case in point, the Fogel murders).”
He can believe whatever he wants, but he his beliefs are mistaken. Therefore, all of the actions undertaken in the name of these mistaken beliefs are objectively wrong.
Spoken like a true believer. However, the Nazis were (and Hamas is) also true believers. You now have no Tainos against them, as they did what they believe(d) to be “objectively right”.
s/t a sem teacher said: even if you spend 150 on your shabbos robe, its still bedroom clothes. (ie its just a fancy night gown) “
Hate to butt in (and agree with a sem teacher!), but this is 100% accurate. I cringe when I see women walking outside in their nightclothes, no matter how “fancy” or Tznius they may be. Furthermore, it seems to me that it is suggestive (being “bedroom wear”), and therefore inherently not something a Bas Yisroel should wear outside, no matter the cost or look (of course, ask your own Rov, and YMMV).
How did I get involved? All I did was make a joke!
Because for thousands of years we didn’t have women leading kabbalas shabbos.
Sure hope not! New Age Kabbalist prayer hasn’t been around close to that long, maybe 4-5 hundred years. I would argue the larger issue is having women at the pulpit! They should be barefoot in the kitchen, where they belong.
LOL
Not Punny?
How about a Kollel discount?
??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????
Nedarim 66B
???? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????
Keddushin 52B
How long is “long”? 60 Denier? 80?
LOL.
Justice Potter Stewart’s statement of “I know it when I see it” might apply, but makes bad halacha.
and its not maamid dmaamid.
Why not? They are Pasul for Schach?
my only issue is when people could learn without it and use it cuz its easier. what happened to ameilus?
That is why Rav Shach was against it (as I tried to point out originally). However, other Gedolim (such as Rav Gifter, IIRC) thought the rewards are greater than the risks.
M. 80: …
edited a bit
gavra,
I would disagree about the biographies. If Gedolim are presented as people who were born as gedolim – they never got into a fight with their sister at age 5, never did anything wrong since age 1, never had to work hard to become who they became – then young people who read that will feel that their own shortcomings make it impossible to become a gadol.
I don’t necessarily agree. It gets down to what is the purpose of the biographies. You claim an additional purpose is to inspire others to become gedolim. I do not believe that to be the case. One does not become a Gadol by reading Artscroll.
IMHO, (and I guess you can ask Rabbi Finkelman what is correct), the purpose is to show us how specific actions of the Gadol made them what they were, and to show how anyone can adapt at least one of the actions. There is also a ??????? ???????? ?????? ???-???????? aspect. In addition, some of the biographies (specificly the Chofetz Chaim that I remember) deal with this specific issue (AKA, the story of the apple seller).
Besides, even if you are correct, saying that Gadol X got into a fight with his sister is not newsworthy (as everyone does it), and should still not be included.
The Tubular Sukkah:
Taking the Concept of Klutz-Proof to a New Level
Google “The Sukkah Project”
Alternatively, you can have your contractor build a skylight that opens out, and just add schach when you want a succah.
Lesschumras: You can also go to a shul that follows “Minhag Artscroll” 🙂
From what I have heard, ToMo is possibly the top yeshiva in EY for boys straight out of high school (as opposed to staying a few years in BM in America & then going to Brisk/Mir).
If they keep Shabbos and Kosher (really keep, with all of the Halachos) I wouldn’t call them Mumrim Lehachis or say that if they touch your wine it’s Stam Yeinam.
To stick my two cents in, to whom do they ask shailos? A conservative temple leader, or a Rov? Also going to such a service in of itself is an issue. Would you say the same about a Jew who just happens to go to a Unitarian church?
Klal Yisroel has so much to be thankful to Artscroll. Not just for their wonderful translations of Tanach, Mishna, and Gemorah, but for their absolutely fabulous Jewish history publication. Both general and biographies. While the whole world is busy publishing all kinds of junk in the name of academic history, there are few like Artscroll that give us an accurate reading of Jewish history and personalities.
Baruch Hashem for Artscroll. Imagine the Dafim that would CV not be learned without “Uncle Art”.
I also agree with Shlishi’s statement, excepting that Artscroll B’Davka does ignore areas that are in reality (as far as what we are trying to acompish with a Biography) unimportant. Do we really need to know that at the age of 5, Gadol X got into a fight with his sister? Or that he brushed his teeth (or did not)? It doesn’t help our understanding of the Gadol, or help our Yiras Shomayim. This is not a “Historical” biography, as with all Yiddishe publications, it has a purpose.
Edited
“It’s obvious from SA to rather take tzedaka than go out.”
I took this as a Moshe Rose statement, and the author did not really mean it.
An “Argument from ignorance”.
i think the yeshivish elelments here and the OP arent defining it as above, rather that a womans focus should be her homelife. the flipside of this is a woman whose main and central focus is her career.
Nothing doing. shmoel is certainly talking about staying at home, and neither the husband OR wife should have their “focus” on work.