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What happened to Siman Beis in shulchan aruch?
I have been asking myself the same question since yesterday when Chossan uncovered an apparent contradiction in Shulchan Aruch.
On one hand, a person must dress with Tznius. MB says this includes socks (at least when they did not wear pants).
On the other hand, a person can read (and be Yotze) Kriyas Shema bare-chested. Tefilla, the MB says, requires additional Kavod (Omed L’Fnei Hamelech) and a shirt. No mention of socks, etc.
Again, the key word in Siman Beis is “L’Olam”. Ask your LOR for actual practice.
However:
Simin Beis is based off (BY there) a Gemorah in Shabbos 118B:
??”? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????
Seems like this was a Hanhaga that R’ Yosi did that he was M’Shabach himself for it, and the Tur/SA suggests we do the same as well.
Also see Rashi on the Gemorah there.
holykugel
Speak to Rabbi Speigel.
I don’t think you will have a problem, but it might take some time (maybe until after the Yomim Tovim). It is really just too short notice to figure stuff out.
Chosson:
B’Makom Sh’ein Ish….
They do this in EY all the time.
holykugel: How about YCQ, HALB, SKA etc.?
Also where in the Five Towns did you move? Not to get personal, but a school in one town may feel that someone in another town should go to that town’s school.
There are five of them.
Also did you first notify them now, after the classes were created? Not to accuse, but that is way too late and a mistake on your part.
I still think they should accept you. I was friends with one of the founders of TAG, and he would not be happy that it would be rejecting frum children had he been alive to hear it.
you can bet that the government would make a ridiculous amount of rules and regulations that would need to be fulfilled in order to make a school eligible
Don’t forget union teachers!
There can be no sacrifice in ruchni.
Thought you might say that 🙂
Its a question of guarding from other frum yidden who pasken differently than you, not eating tarfus.
How many Boys/Girls Yeshivos are there in Lakewood? And do you really think you need all of them, if some can be made bigger and accept the other students?
Boys go to Eretz Yisroel to grow in Torah in the Yeshiva.
Girls don’t have that need.
Was wondering when someone would bring that up. Avirah D’Eretz Yisroel Machkim!
It is a good point.
holykugel:
Do you pay full tuition?
Chosson:
So I took a look at the Mishna Berurah in Simin Beis, and you do have a point, even though I am not sure if it would apply to anything you would walk around with in public (if not for Ervah type Tznius).
I suggest one asks their own Rav. But thank you for correcting me.
The key here is “Kol Ma Shedarko L’heyos Mechusa L’OLAM”. IIRC, there is a question if this includes an undershirt in this time period.
Chosson:
I was refering to Hilchos Kriyas Shema (Simin Ayin Daled). I will take a look at the Halachos af getting dressed again.
Chosson:
Go back and look up those halachos again.
All that is said there is regarding Erva Mamish.
The title reads: It’s Almost September… Does every child have a school?
Perhaps it should say: It’s Almost September… Does every child have a Parent who is willing to sacrifice to get their child into a school?
Sacrifice is both in Mammon and Ruchni. I bet that in the Cheder in the Shtetel, they were not picky regarding which child your’s learned with.
I guess that gives me an excuse not to act like Kimchis!
Never claimed Kimchis was Halacha, no problem here.
There is one answer. Government
So when you start paying to educate Wahabbis & Missionaries, don’t complain.
There is a very good reason why there is a separation between church & state.
The answer is to merge schools (Consolidation), and take advantage of economies of scale.
There are other answers as well, but they are less “politically correct”.
If you want your children to be Kohanim Gedolim, or you act based on Zohar, you should not change anything that you would go out in the street.
And yes, it is from Kimchis.
HB”H has your plan, tell her she should call.
Reminds me of the famous FIL = G-d joke, where the prospective SIL keeps on saying Hashem will help when asked how he will support the girl 🙂
It has to do with getting lost in the crowd and having yiddishkeit shoved down their throats instead of shown in a manner of ahava and simcha.
This is a great line, and so true.
(e.g. four inches)
That isn’t a geder. You have to cover the knee. However, the knee must be covered even when sitting, walking, and getting into/out of a car as well, and if your skirt just covers your knee while standing straight it will not cover it in other positions. Therefore, some length has to be added. There is however, no Halachic quantification for this. If you need 4 inches, then it’s 4 inches. If you need 3, 6, or 8, then that’s what it is.
Completely agree. That’s what makes “four inches” so dangerous. Four inches is what they teach in the Bais Yaakovs & Sems (from what I hear), and it really depends on the person (& Skirt?). If they just taught “cover the knee in all situations” that would be good and Halacha (according to most, not getting into that here). Making up a Shiur is being M’Garaya from the Halacha.
An additional example (to get out of Tznius) would be having two sinks, and how a sem tought a friend’s daughter that if she does not have two sinks, she is eating Tarfus.
First of all, you are unfortunately and tragically incorrect, the divorce rate among the Yeshivish has become increasingly higher in recent years. I myself know at least half a dozen couples who broke up within the year of marriage.
That is because we Frum Yidden are concentrating more on externals (e.g. type of tablecloth) vs. internal (e.g. Yiras Shmayim). If Your children are able to shut out the Shtusim and concentrate on the Pennimius, they will Bezras Hashem have a good marriage.
gavra_at_work – I agree that there are several different types of chumros. However, I would split them up slightly differently:
The first category would be a chumra due to a lack of clarity of which shita we follow halacha li’maseh. There are several sub-groups to this category: Not relying on a generally accepted kula (for example, cholov stam), or being choshaish for rishonim that the Shulchan Orach/Rema didn’t paskan like (not relying on an eruv).
The second category would be gedarim that may not be halavha, but are there to stop you from being over on the halacha. (Note: this does not include gedarim set up by the Rabbonim, because these are now halacha.)
The third category would be chumros that aren’t really chumros at all, but are things that we feel that Hashem would want us to do.
Your categorization works, but it also leaves out what the results should be, and does not differentiate between accepted “halacha” and what we would call “chumra”.
For example, Rabbainu Tam Teffilin is due to a Safek, and the Shulchan Aruch says only a Big Chassid should wear them, but otherwise it is Ga’ava.
The second category is what worries me, as I agree they should be done, but we have Chazal that tell us what Gedarim we should keep (e.g. playing a musical instrument on shabbos) and those we should not (e.g. not eating meat during the year Zecher L’churban). There has been an explosion of “gedarim” in the past 20ish years which were non existent in the prior generations (e.g. four inches), as well as ignoring the actual gedarim the chachamim created (e.g. Kol Sheino Milamdo).
It has almost created an “Ish HaYashar B’Einav Ya’asee” situation, and that scares me.
The third category I would like an example of what you mean, it seems like you are talking about Naval B’Rishus HaTorah & Darchei Noam, but I’m not sure.
Mr. Mod:
Since you bring Chumros to the table….
We have to split chumros into multiple groups, and realize not all chumros are created equal. (there are more then I will mention here, but hopefully this will be a springboard).
The first type is when the Olam is Noheg for the Halacha to be one way, and then there is a Kula going the other (such as Colov Yisroel). Of course, this can be split between Stam a Da’as Yochid creating the Kula and the Gadol HaDor.
The second type is when the Olam (Rema, MB, etc.) paskins like the minority of Shittos, and someone wants to be Machmir like the other shittos. An example of this would be Chadosh in Chul.
Another type of Chumrah would be something that is NOT halacha, but Chazal made it a “suggestion”, such as the title of the thread.
Yet another example is when one wants to be Machmir like a Da’as Yochid (or minority shitta), where one must be very careful to make sure they know what they are doing before they start. The classic example of this is standing/sitting for Kriyas Shema like Bais Shammai.
There are other groupings as well, but this is the point I want to bring out. It is to our detriment that we label all of these items “chumros”, when the label really doesn’t apply.
Mr. Mod:
From the Rambam, he seems to be discussing the reason for the Gezairah, but it is up there, you can read it yourself & make your own conclusions.
i believe it’s called gvinah akum and is because the used to coat their cheeses with lard to keep them fresh
That could be true, but the Rambam I quoted says it is because they created their cheeses in the stomach of a nevailah.
as for the second question, it seems according to that shita, then no.
It seems there is a separate Gezairah regarding Hard cheeses, above CY, which applies even if the “milk” base is CY, and even if we know the process was koaher. That does not apply by butter, if it is solid (if it is semi-solid, then we are worried that it is still partially milk, and that milk may be from a non kosher animal).
Rambam Ma’achalos Assuros 3:10-13
? [??] ??? ???? ????, ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????; ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????–??????? ????–????? ??? ??????, ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?????. [??] ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????, ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????; ?????? ?????? ?????, ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????. ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??????, ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????.
?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??, ???? ?? ????? ???????–???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????; ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????, ??? ???? ???? ??? ??????.
?? [??] ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ??????, ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ???? ?? ?????? ??????–???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????: ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??????, ??? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ????–?????, ???? ???????? ???? ?????.
?? [??] ????? ????? ??????, ?? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ?????–???? ???? ??? ?????. ????? ?? ?????–???? ?????? ??????, ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????, ???? ????? ???? ????; ????? ?????? ?????, ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ??, ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???????, ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??, ??? ???? ?? ??? ????.
and to use our Holy father Yehuda as an example, without even a basic understanding of that incident, rather understanding it like a 4 year old cheder boy or a x-an minister,
is not less than a travesty
If you don’t mind me branching off a bit on this point, most bochrim and Kollel understand the Torah as learned by a young child, the girls get much more of a limud of the depth of Tanach.
Perhaps it should be more emphasised, maybe in high school?
hes asking: is it possible to marry someone who is not your bashert? if someone gets married can we say with certainty that that person was their bashert?
Thanks, Mr. Mod.
Also, hey, doesn’t the fact that there is a birchas hashevach for getting married prove that chazal viewed it as a good thing?
The shevach seems to be for making us more Kaddosh (kiddishanu) by disallowing relationships, and allowing others only via Chuppa.
I agree getting married is a “good thing”, the question is why.
blinky:
Does one have Bechira not to marry their “bashert”, or to marry someone who is not their “bashert”?
AZ:
As I pointed out before, what do we want our end result to be?
Do we want to create shidduchim? Dates? Complainers?
The suggestion will create shidduchim by “mopping up” those who are willing to take a chair. Then we can figure out who is playing only because their parents etc. made them play, vs. those who really want to play.
yitayningwut:
Ishus 1:1!
But see Ishus 1:2
???????? ???, ???? ??? ?? ???? ??.
Chazal teach us that it is one of the main purposes in creation though. Have any of you seen what Kabbalah happens to say about the topic.
I’ve decided I’m not holy enough to learn or practice Kabbalah.
I would like to know where the Chazal is, though.
Mosh85:
I agree with Helpful.
However, it is not fair to get married to a girl and then change direction 6 months later.
You should be open that you have no plan, and perhaps the two of you can discuss what your best option would be.
I was planning on going into one thing before I met Ittisa, and after meeting her and her family, I realized a better option was available, which I took after discussion with Ittisa.
Hatzlacha, and may you meet your Bashert soon.
I have never heard a of a source that says RG had a “miserable marriage”.
Rabbenu Gershom Meor Hagolah by Rabbi Dr. Meyer Lehmann (a talmid of Rav Azriel Hildesheimer).
Suggestion:
(completely green light)
Once a boy or girl has dated for 5 years, the parents of the children can select their Bashert, have a Bishow?, and the children (who both have been dating for 5 years) either agree or not.
Anyone who agrees gets married.
Anyone who doesn’t agree loses the right to complain about it.
So I took a look at the Rosh, it does say what yitayningwut claims, that you can be Yotze P’ru U’rvu without Keddushin.
The Rosh continues though, to say that Birchas Arusin (Sheasar) is a Birchos HaSheveach, and not a Birchos HaMitzva, because getting married is NOT a mitzva.
So now we have proven that according to many Rishonim and Achronim in many cases, if not all, there is no mitzva to get married.
I always believed that the primary purpose of marriage is for building a bayis ne’eman.
Hate to be cynical, but which of the 613 is that? (there is an answer (I think), this is Socratic)
??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????????: ????, ?????? ????????; ????????, ??? ????? ???? ???????, ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????, ?????? ??. ??? ?????? ???? ??????, ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????.
Yad – Melachim 4.4
But then again, I have not seen the Ramban inside.
Machal Man: Interesting. Source? (would like to see inside, not disagreeing)
yitayningwut: that is what is Mashma from the C’M as well.
SJS:
Pilegesh acc. to the Rambam is only by a Melech or an Amah Ivryah (Jewish maid, completely different discussion, not for here).
yitayningwut:
(Not like I have to back up the C”M), but) The concept of a helper could still apply even if it is possible to be Mekayem the mitzva using other methods.
The herem still applies, it was renewed.
By who, and on what grounds?
FYI, it is a mitzva to actually do the action of Keddushin, both for the male and the female (Keddushin 41a).
The Chelkas Mechokek in AHZ 36.1 says the mitzva of the woman is only as a “misayayh” (helper) to the man for him to be M’Kayem the mitzva of P’ru U’rvu. Accordingly, if the woman is incapable of having children, it would seem there is no mitzva to get married.
Mods:
By deleting my response, you make it seem like I am actually trying to suggest polygamy is a solution (which I am not).
Just wanted to make that clear.
AZ: I think this ties in more with the (now closed) thread SJS started than you think.
blinky:
IF the Cherem no longer applies, there is no Halachic reason not to.
And since we seem to have all these people here promoting the strict “letter of the law”, there would be no reason not to have multiple “halachic” wives.
But before we jump too far ahead, I think we want to determine the halacha at this point in time.
I guess in this case sharing a chair will not work…:)
Truthfully, we should be looking at all options.
It is called a “green light” discussion. Nothing (that is not anti-halacha) will be disallowed.
Does anyone know the source that the Cherem of Rabbainu Gershom was only supposed to last for 1000 years?
I think tou are giving too much clout to the “yetzer hara” as if its an actual identity. All “it” is is you. Do I think that there is something wrong with mature boys and girls mingaling and talking with eachother? no. Do I think that our frum society has made it into such a big deal that now so many people just want to do it, and then bad thing end up coming out of it for no reason? 1,000%
Those who underestimate the power of the dark side are doomed to fall to it.
Do not underestimate the power of Arayos. Hashem created a strong Tayva for a reason, and strong it is.
If you choose the quick and easy path … you will become an agent of evil
And last: Control, control. You must learn control!
My wife has delivered dozens of babies and reports that there are few things quite so immodest as giving birth.
Which is why the husband is behind the curtain, or the room is set up for Tznius.
Dr. Hall:
Thank you for the correction.
“But in any case we do not necessarily follow the minhag hamakom! Chas v’shalom we adopt the modesty standards of gentiles in New York City!!!”
IIRC, Da’as Moshe V’Yehudis is a minimum.
Helpful: AHZ 115 discusses the relevent halachos.
Squeak, somehow I feel that in giving birth she is ALSO going to be the center of attentiion – at least until the baby comes out.
…and even then, she is not seen
isn’t what is considered improper conduct in a marriage (that gives beis din the right to force him to provide a get) itself defined in halacha?
Not really. “Improper conduct in a marriage” is defined by the society that they are in (for example, as we have discussed, a man in Iran can probably ask to have a burka worn, since that is “Minhag HaMakom”).
For example, the Gemaros in Kesubas that discuss “Hichnis Arba Shefachos” is not dealing with the age of automation.
All this is my own thinking, not to be taken as Halacha.
A father marrying off his young daughter. (Was this allowed after the churban? Is it now? When the change? The change implemented by whom?)
Yes, yes, and no change.
It creates problems when parents are divorced, and the father marries her off in spite.
Some people believe today a woman has a right to a ‘get’ upon demand. Any halachic basis for this belief? If so, what is the halachic basis?
No, yes, Beis Din has the right to force it if he acts improperly (which will change with the times). Also Rabbanu Gershom has a Takana that you have to have the wife’s agreement to divorce (IIRC).