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writersoul -“Is the next step in that chain of reasoning that since girls know not to be brainwashed they should ignore everything they learn in BY?”
The ones who don’t believe in that Hashkofa are Not brainwashed, like the OP.
“So essentially, what’s your difference here? Is it that girls can just ignore what they hear in BY?”
They shouldn’t ignore what they hear. They should try to take in the BY Haskofos.
“Why not just go to a non-religious school, then?”
They should go to such a school if they are scared that they might become too Frum. BY is Not for these girls.
“And why not just go into college forewarned that people there might (gasp!) actually have opinions unlike your own?”
Because this is Not the purpose of college. If it was a Catholic college and they pushed their religion that would be fine.
Going to general college and having to put up with their agendas, whether it’s Woman’s Lib or the Toeiva agenda, Is Not fine. As a matter of fact it’s disgusting. People are there for a degree, not to be pounded against their will with s/o else’s beliefs or viewpoints.
sw33t -“I’ve never gone to graduate school, but i would imagine everything is relative to what the student is studying?
As in, if the student is getting a phD in middle easter studies, clearly they will have ideas pushed on them..
But what about an MS in accounting, an MBA, a ST/OT/PT degree…
Those are school experiences where you just go to class, learn, study, graduate and get a job. no outside ideas.
unless I’m mistaken???”
Yes, you are very mistaken. As a matter of fact, the brainwashing (or whatever it is -because it’s not sublimal) in BY’s is expected. E/o knows what goes on with regards to Kollel and being a teacher forever. So if this philosophy doesn’t agree with you -go elsewhere. There are plenty of MO schools around.
But in college it’s much worse. When I went to secular college, not when I went to Touro, I was subjected to the Prof. constant brainwashing (opinion – if you don’t like the brainwashing word) about Woman’s lib. All the reading was geared towards that. I highly doubt if s/o openly voiced a contrary opinion they would have passed her class.
Don’t you know Pres Bush (Pres at that time) is an evil man because he doesn’t believe in abortion? So either you pretended to be with her to survive or many probably started thinking like this because they couldn’t think for themselves. This is Not what college courses should be, but unfortunately a lot are like this.
sharp -“However, when it comes to ADHD, this is how I feel about them. I’ve heard many a patient get Ritalin for the asking. You don’t need med school for that. And many of these doctors who did take a couple minutes to “diagnose”, actually misdiagnosed.”
I don’t believe your stories, but even if true -then these guys are incompetent. Most Med Prof aren’t!
There are times (I posted about this before in the CR) that a Med Prof feels pressured by the parents to give Meds because they come begging to put the kids on Meds – otherwise the kid will be chucked from school. The Doc does it out of mercy, not out of incompetence.
“And these meds often don’t work well with the kids.”
Says who? You? Do you have any proof to back up your statement?
“Yes, I am aware of ADHD and the different treatment options. But this disease called ADHD is overly diagnosed and often treated with meds unnecessarily.”
Care to prove this?
“Many kids who are diagnosed with ADHD have many underlying problems that when treated, the ADHD symptoms miraculously disappears.
So is that ADHD?”
It’s a known fact that ADHD commonly coexists with other disorders, so it’s possible to have ADHD and something else. It’s also possible to just have the something else but it’s imitating the ADHD. The best ones to diagnose these cases are ones who are experts in child mental health or in ADHD.
If more than one diagnosis is present -the kid has to be treated for all his/hers disorders.
sharp -“Oh, really? I don’t think so.”
And e/o should listen to your opinion as opposed to medical prof. because Why?
“I know someone that took their child to a doctor for an evaluation and got an RX for Ritalin because the Dr. diagnosed ADHD. The mother put the RX in her pocket and refused to fill it.
Instead, she took the child off sugar completely and in a matter of days, there was a significant change in behavior. She kept him off sugar and went to this Dr. for a follow-up. The Dr. said that the kid is doing great, and the medication must be working and told her to keep the kid at the same dose.
The mother then told the Dr. that she had in fact never filled the rx, but tried to keep him away from sugar first and when she saw that it’s actually working, there was no need for her to get the meds then.
The rest is history.”
Well thank you for this little story. All it proves is that your friend has an incompetent doctor. Is this Doc in the Frum community? It sheds no light on the disease called ADHD.
Yes, there is such a disorder called ADHD and it’s treated with meds and therapy amongst other modalities.
sharp -“Health, just because an individual in a white coat that happens to have a prescription pad, said so, doesn’t make it reason enough for someone to run to these pills as the “solution”. A lot of “diagnosed” cases have been proven wrong.”
More Narishkeit. The reason the guys in the white coats have those pads is because they went to school. In school they learnt Medical science. This science is based on evidence.
What evidence do you have pills don’t work – because you read some conspiracy theory in an alternative medicine mag?
Mammele -“Health: what’s a Hunk?”
Hungarian.
sharp -“And many kids don’t do well with the meds.”
Wrong again, most do!
“And like popa_bar_abba said, taking care of the underlying psychological issues before popping these pills is good idea.”
Most need to be on pills so that the therapy can even begin to work!
“And like I said, reducing the sugar intake significantly is a good start.”
What – by repeating it again it Now becomes true? It was false the first time and it’s still false the second time.
Doesn’t mean I agree that kids should be given junk in school, shul or home. But this has nothing to do with ADHD!
sharp -“Health, many kids who take meds were never really diagnosed. Many kids who were diagnosed, were misdiagnosed or didn’t have a decent evaluation at all.”
Def Not many, perhaps some. And your point Is?????
sharp – Yep, the Health-types keep pushing this theory. It has been proven false in most kids diagnosed with ADHD!
DM – The truth of the matter is -there is no such thing as Oberlanders. The people in that area were either Hunks or Yekkes.
If people started taking others’ Minhagim because they lived in the same area -doesn’t make this right. It’s just like if a Yekke lives in BP and Davens in a Chassidishe place and starts doing all the Minhagim that they do.
Veltz Meshugener -“1a. This is true for several reasons. One is the existence and definition of ADHD. A strong case can be made that there is no such thing as ADHD in a qualitative sense, rather, people possess the ability to concentrate in different quantities. If that were true, then society owes it to children to reform the school system and childhood environment to address the needs of more children more regularly.”
The first part I believe is hogwash. The second part you make somewhat of a point. It would definitely help those who are Not really ADHD, but for whatever reasons they have been labeled as such. I don’t believe these are the vast majority of those with an ADHD diagnosis. This has been discussed previously in the CR.
Those that actually have ADHD – maybe a few will be helped with Special Ed (I’ll call it this because that’s what you’re really calling for on a widespead basis), but most will need Meds and/or Therapy along with the possibility of Special Ed.
gaslight -“Health – Make all the generalizations you want about P/C now, 20 or 50 years ago, but I don’t see where MR specifically said her ILs didn’t move to Passaic until after the Yeshiva was founded, just that they lived there then. They may have lived there before as well. In any case, you shouldn’t be making assumptions about MR’s ILs or their motives or level of Yiddishkeit.”
I didn’t make any assumptions – all my comments were based on her posts about them. And her statement towards me that they lived there in the 90’s tells me that they were Not there prior to that.
Perhaps you should read All the posts before commenting?
ZD -“Health -“Most people who attend college are not doing it for some altrustic reason, they are not trying to help the poor in Harlem or Africa.”
Noone said they were. But lots of students are influenced by the left-wing agenda that some schools have. There are many students who are either against or don’t care about the Toeiva agenda, but after going to college they become Pro-Toeiva.
ZD -“The only “brainwashing” that occurs in college is by those who never went and say how “evil” it is.”
While I agree that there is plenty of brainwashing in certain Yeshivos and Seminaries – there is by far many colleges and universities that engage in brainwashing also.
They did a poll once and found that the percentage of young people in college were predominately Liberal minded, but the same people polled after they entered the workforce many had become Conservative. This is because the realities in America make living with Liberal ideals extremely hard. In a way it’s very similar to Communism -it sounds great for e/o, but in reality it’s only good for the ones on top. The American public in our generation are extremely foolish and have voted in an extremely liberal Gov.!
Just Emes -“i heard that it obviously is not referring to a woman’s intelligence because they have binah — it rather refers to the ability of women to multi-task more easily than man”
Binah is only a part of a person’s intelligence.
It is some character flaw and it does affect their intelligence. Because sometimes (most times) they let their emotions control their brain.
MR -“Don’t call me chutzpadik. I am just reiterating why my I’m laws left. They are very modern so-again-yes it was too yeshivish for them. Why are you having such a hard time grasping that?”
Why are you having such a hard time grasping my point?
Anyone who says that they can’t stand the place because it’s too Yeshivish is Chutzpa. They moved to a town because the Yeshivish people opened up their community to e/o, but now that a lot of Yeshiva people are living there -they don’t want to live there anymore.
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MorahRach -“Health- I’m not sure if you are assuming we are older than we are but my husbands family lived there after the yeshiva was already there. There was a huge modern crowd in the 90s but then a lot of yeshivish people moved in, and many modern people left because it was too much for them.”
Now you are beginning to understand my point.
From above: “The MO’s and BT’s moved in because the Yeshiva made it a Frum community.”
If you move to a Jewish community that was revived by the Yeshivish community, whether you are MO or not, how do you have the Chutzpa later on to complain that it has become too Yeshivish, eg. -“his family left because it was too yeshivish”?
MR -“Health- I was wrong about the age, my husband was there until he was 11. Either way- your statement as usual is rude and judgmental. My husbands family do not hate Jews who follow the Torah. They are very modern and the crowd was changing so it was not for them. They watched tv, went to movies, their daughters wore an wear pants. A community is allowed to not be for everyone, maybe it’s good for you.”
You missed my point and it wasn’t rude or judgmental -it was fact. Now I don’t know if your husband’s family preceded the Yeshiva or not, but I can tell you there was hardly any Jewish families left in the town before people started moving there because of the Yeshiva. So the implication of your post was that there was a Jewish community there and it changed to Yeshivish because of the Yeshiva. No, there wasn’t much Jews there before the Yeshiva. It was a thriving Frum community in the 20’s. It died in the 50’s & 60’s. Once the Yeshiva started up the community again – MO’s also moved in. So this is called Kofoy Tov. So without the Yeshiva the town would be mostly Goyim -so I guess if your husband’s family preceded the Yeshiva -they must prefer to live amongst Goyim then amongst Yeshivaleit. The MO’s and BT’s moved in because the Yeshiva made it a Frum community. When I was there many years ago, there wasn’t even a Kosher grocery. They still had shuls but the only people in then were old people and I doubt most were even Frum. And most barely had a Minyan. So if there was even a small amount of Jewish community -they would have had a least a Kosher grocery.
MR -“My husband is originally from Passaic, his family left because it was too yeshivish”
Yeshivish -code word for “Frum”. Anybody who lived in Passaic 20 years ago and decided Passaic was too Yeshivishe -meant that they don’t like Jews who keep the Torah. I don’t live in Passaic, but even nowadays there is a Big Modern Olam and lots of BT’s. It’s funny because -before the Yeshiva came there it was a dying Jewish community. The Yeshiva brought the Jewish community back to life.
Naftush -“Health, I missed your gem until now and I’d like some elaboration. What degrees of aveira should I kill to avoid transgressing? The big three? All mi-deoraytas? Derabbanans too? Tying my shoes? Should I kill everyone in sight or just the one who’s getting in the way of my shoelace? Please clarify and cite your authority so I can quote him when the vile secularists haul me into court.”
It wasn’t that deep and definitely didn’t need three weeks to chew over. In the Din of Yahrog Va’l Yavor -if s/o says do the Aveira or I’ll kill you – it can be either one of the big 3 or any Mitzva if it’s Shas Hashmad, then instead of just doing the Aveira and saying “Well he forced me” or instead of letting him kill you, if you have the opportunity kill him first.
Avi K -“Health, on the contrary, the gedolim say that it is a mitzva with the exception of those who are learning full-time (and not just registered). Rambam is very clear as is Ramban”
Sorry the Gedolim from the previous generation till ours, from the Chazon Ish till R’ Shteinman, hold it’s Ossur to go to the IDF whether learning full time or not. Obviously they don’t learn these Rishonim like you. It fails to amaze me that everytime we have a disagreement you seem to say your way is right and e/o has to listen to your way. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps there are Gedolim who don’t see it the same way as your Gedolim and they aren’t wrong?
WIY -“So first of all I would like to know if Matza can cause this.”
WIY Not?
“More importantly what do you do on Pesach if you spoil your stomach? Any helpful advice is welcomed”
Immodium. I went looking in a few pharmacies in Bricktown for it Erev Yom Tom and not one had it. They had the Immodium Multi-Symptom pills, but I figured they weren’t touched because the “book” only lists Immodium AD.
Avi K -“2. It is a mitzva d’Oraita to serve in the IDF”
The Gedolim said it’s Ossur to go to the IDF. (I explained this a few times here in the CR.) I guess they don’t learn the Rambam like you do!
PBA -“Wait, you are a psychologist?”
No.
“Actually, I think that is the fault of you professionals who are trying to remove the stigma. You (plural) argue that I should marry someone who is schizophrenic, and then are surprised when I refuse and in doing so lump everyone together. You are the ones who in your zeal to grab merubah, don’t tafasta.”
Actually you just proved my point. Most schizophrenics are probably in the realm of psychotics. So I never advocated anyone marrying psychotics. But what you did is refer to most of the mentally ill as schizophrenics. This is Motzay Shem Ra on most mentally ill.
Like I said above, most mentally ill people are Not psychotics and can function and get married like e/o else!
I find this topic most amusing. You people have turned back the clock on the strides us professionals have made in eliminating the Stigma of Mental Illness in the Frum community. It’s amazing how the Frum community is lagging so far behind the rest of the world. Now I know that Mentally Ill Should Not get married. If this would be true many here in the CR should not get married.
1 out of 4 people are mentally ill. It’s better to know s/o is Mentally Ill and is being treated, not like most people out there who don’t know. You have just given more of a reason why in the Frum community people don’t go for help because they will be stigmatized for it.
The truth is the vast majority of Mentally Ill can get married, but there are a very few at the extreme ends that maybe shouldn’t.
The way Mental Illness is portrayed here is you make it sound e/o who is ill is from the extreme ends of psychosis. Nothing could be further from the Truth.
Veltz Meshugener -“Health: Their mistake was that they gave the whole megillah behind their psak about coffee and it didn’t make any sense. If they had just said that they investigated and it was a problem, everyone would listen.”
Ok, so s/o can just go to Star-K’s website where they say it’s Ossur, w/o a Megilla, L’chatchilla. To Mach Avek (make away) because of the way some guy working for them posted the Psak on the website Is Not a Good idea! I’m quite sure it wasn’t the Av Bais Din who posted it on their webpage. So anybody who has a drop of Yiras Shomayim can just call their Av Bais Din or R’ Heineman and discuss why it’s Ossur L’chatchilla. I’m sure they know S’A as well as anybody here in the CR.
PBA – Al Pi Rov – if one doesn’t know whether drug pills have Chometz or not – one can assume they are just Kitniyos because most are made with corn starch, not other kinds of starch.
Just as a side note: All of a sudden when it comes to a Kula you hold of the cRc, but you laugh at their P’sak about coffee!
Lakewood Fellow -“Yeah the media isn’t biased against Jews, i’m just paranoid.”
Why when I make a point your response is always illogical?
This wasn’t the media -these were historians. Do you even know what a historian is?
“Do you have any other ideas on how to destroy an enemy that plans and puts together attacks in bases located in civilian areas in order to make them harder to get to? America to this day in Iraq and afganistan has a hard time with it…and that’s with modern technology”
Yes, many, and I’m not even an war expert. Again your Negious blinds you to the fact that was terrorism. It’s ok in your mind to be terrorists as long as the terrorists are on your side. And again you equate a legitimate country during a war to some Zionist terrorists.
“No it was a bunch of Jews who had decided to settle peacefully in E”Y defending themselves while trying to avoid civilian casualties whenever possible.(They warned the civilians in Deir Yassin!) against Arabs who were trying to drive them out by killing them, men woman and children,
How you can equate this with a Muslim saying he is going to kill a bus or plane load etc. of innocent civilians if he doesn’t get his way is beyond me!”
I’m not equating them, but they are both terrorism, just one type is worse than the other. It’s beyond me how you justify killing of innocent civilains just because they were close to the enemy.
“The Arabs weren’t people who disagreed politically with the Jews, they were telling them to either move or die, and actively started killing innocent Jewish settlers.”
At the beginning they were, but then it became an armed struggle.
“Even according to you the Jews had at least the same rights to live peacefully in Israel as the Arabs did.
Why should Jews be forced to flee their villages (actually using that policy all Jews should have just left E”Y)because the Arabs decide to shoot at them?
Would you apply this if someone was shooting at your house and their were no police around?”
You must not read my posts before you respond. I already told you that if s/o is shooting at you in your house -you have all the right in the world to shoot back. This isn’t what happened here. These Zionist terrorists decided to play policeman and take the law into their own hand. If they would have just killed the arab terrorists, this wouldn’t have made them more than Vigilantees.
But they didn’t just do that, they killed innocent civilains and therefore are Terrorists!
“Read a history book. Even the British do not deny this.”
I asked you for proof and you tell me read a book. This isn’t called proof. Proof is saying you can find it in this book -on this and this page.
I’m beginning to get the feeling that you’re not your typical MO guy that went to college, but that you went to regular Yeshiva and somewhere down the road you went off. I getting this because your responses are very similar to avg. Yeshivishe responses.
truthsharer -“Health, how about you move to Turkey and start setting up the logistics.”
Put your money where your mouth is. Get me a million and I’ll start.
PBA -“(I propose: Open Orthodox, to signify that they want to pretend to be Orthodox, but don’t feel bound by any of the Torah’s rules besides the social justice ones which they invented by pulling out of a horse’s tuches.)”
They already have a term for this and it’s called -Orthopraxy!
Lakewood Fellow -“If by terrorism you mean “Defending yourself against violent enemies using violence that sometimes causes civilian deaths” then yeah I believe that is sometimes necessary. According to your definition of Terrorism just about anyone who has fought in any war is a Terrorist then though.”
You keep repeating yourself, just in different words. I’m not going to play this game with you much longer. Come up with a real logical defense, but I know you can’t because there isn’t one. First of all, it’s not my definition – it’s the Worlds’. This wasn’t a war with a legitimate country defending themselves. This was a band of terrorists, who had no legitimacy, fighting those who opposed them politically with no regard for human life esp. that of innocent civilains.
“The fact is the early Zionists made reasonable efforts to avoid civilian casualties (which is hard when you are fighting an enemy-like the Arabs that hides behind them) while the Muslim terrorists make civilian casualties their express goal. That is the difference and most reasonable people see it that way.”
No, you can Not consider yourself from the humans who are reasonable. The reasonable Historians have called these Zionist groups – Terrorists. I know – it must be because they hate Jews.
And your lie that they made reasonable efforts is beyond the pale. How about Not bombing marketplaces where innocent people will get killed or hurt and figure out another way to get rid of your enemies?
“So what? And the Germans only starting killing Jews after the Jewish led Bolshevick revolution took over Russia and its influence started being felt all over Europe.”
I never said the arabs were justified in killing of all Jews, but that it was Zionism that started them on their recent (100 years or so) extreme hatred of Jews!
“Again, Your complete lack of knowledge of the historical realities in E”Y of that time become apparent. The British REFUSED to assist the Jews, There was NO ONE to call. That left the Jews with three choices
1.Die
2. Flee
3.Warn civilians to leave because they need to clear the village of those shooting and killing the Jews below and then fighting back. They chose 3.”
Yes, if you have no choice and you are able to flee -then you must. This wasn’t Germany were they couldn’t leave. So since you believe like all Zionists, that Israel is your country, that they had the moral right to destroy their enemies, you have no problem with them becoming terrorists. This is exactly what the arabs say – we have no choice but to have an armed struggle with Israel to get to our political objectives and therefore they justify Terrorism. You must agree with this kind of philosophy because you just stated that it was Ok for the Early Zionists to have it!
“Again you are ignoring the fact that the Arab groups make killing civilians an express goal while the Israeli’s make every reasonable effort possible not too harm civilians.
Do you really not see a distinction??”
Of course there is a distinction, but that doesn’t take these Early Zionists out of the category of Terrorists. They fall into that category acc. to, not My definition, but the World’s definition of Terrorism!
“And again you bring up Samuel. Again he tried to be reasonable with the Arabs and figured that in the worst case scenario if the Arabs refused to be reasonable then the British would see that the Jews were reasonable and have the Jew’s back.
Of course he was wrong. Goyim don’t need Jews to be unreasonable in order to turn against them. The British didn’t stop being worried about the “Poor Arabs” and kept restricting Jewish immigration, and turning a blind eye to the constant attacks by Arabs on innocent Jews and kept refusing to assist the Jews in any way whatsoever.”
They were worried about the Arabs because they had already sided with the Zionist Jews in their foreign policy. So, just like what the Zionist Samuel did, they tried to appease them with limiting of Jewish immigration. Because you decided what their intentions were – e/o now has to believe you?!? If you have any proof that the British at that time were Antisemitic, besides what it says in your Zionist Doctrine, feel free to post it.
I don’t know that the British turned a blind eye to arab attacks -Do you have any proof to that or should I (LOL) take your word for it?
Mods -my posts above please.
Lakewood Fellow -“You seem intent on taking Anti Semites at their words that the reason they hate Jews is really because of the pretext they give:
Or do you only believe the Arabs who used the pretext that they hate Jews because of Zionism?”
You keep repeating this over and over. I honestly don’t care what you and other Zionists believe and how ingrained the Zionist propaganda is in you. I’ll repeat my response one last time.
The historical fact, not My opinion, is the arabs started their riots and the killing of Jews after the League of Nations together with England, decided that Palestine is going to be a homeland for Jews. They decided this because they went along with the Jewish Zionists. So right before this period Arabs were not rioting or killing Jews. This is historical facts. So it comes out that their extreme hatred to Jews comes from their opposition to Zionism.
I really must thank you for explaining your position on Zionism. I always knew how bad Zionism was, but I never knew to this degree. I now know that Zionists believe in terrorism and feel terrorism is a justified means to get to your political objectives. That now the Zionists in Israel are just like their counterparts in the Arab world, namely the PLO, Hamas, Hizbullah, etc.
Lakewood Fellow -“Terror is killing civilians specifically; in order to get their governments to do something for you. For example blowing up an Israeli Shopping mall on a Sunday afternoon is a terrorist attack. Blowing up an Airliner full of civilians is a Terrorist attack.
Blowing up a known military planning base is not. Whether or not the base is called a “market” by those who use it.”
The problem with your definition of terrorism is – it’s not the world’s definition. I know, the world is Antisemitic and your not paranoid. It must be all those historical articles calling these Zionists “terrorists” are all Antisemites. It’s funny how you justify any evil things anybody has ever done, as long as it is in the name of Zionism. Wake up, if you condone terrorism, even if it’s collateral damage terrorism, you are no better than the terrorists!
“The Arabs in Deir Yassin were constantly shooting at the Jewish settlements below them and at the Jews traveling the roads nearby. The British wouldn’t stop the Arabs and Jews were being attacked and killed. Thats when what happened in Deir Yassin happened. The Jew’s choice was either flee, die, or stick up for themselves. The Jews chose to stick up for themselves and warned the Arabs before they cleared the village to avoid harming civilians like I pointed out above.”
Of course you didn’t address my point. My post was even if these arabs were terrorists, unless they are shooting directly at you at that second, it’s morally wrong to play policeman. This is called vigilantism.
And when playing policeman gets innocents killed -this is called terrorism.
“Even you say that this is not true! You’r the one who keeps going on about how terrible it was that the Zionists in the British government made any compromises on immigration!”
I didn’t say any such thing. All I said was this limiting of immigration wasn’t based on Antisemitism because the first guy to do it was a Zionist Jew.
charliehall -“Modern Orthodox Religious Zionism is the True Torah Judaism that has been practiced for millenia. Charedi isolationism is a relatively recent phenomenon, just a few hundred years old (and in its extreme forms, rejecting all secular education, only a generation old). And we have been praying for a return to Zion for almost two millenia.”
I’m not going to convince you that you’re wrong, but that wasn’t my point. You and other Zionists here seem to have no problem with the current Israeli Gov. If you believe in the Torah, how come you have no prob with them considering they plan on removing laws regarding basic keeping of the Torah, eg. more bussing on Shabbos?
“Besides, there is a practical matter: Without the State of Israel, millions of Jews would have nowhere to go. Disappear Medinat Yisrael and we will have another Shoah thanks to the Arab and Iranian rashaim. And you are allying yourself with them.”
Turkey can take over Israel and the UN with US can put in measures to protect the Jews there. Not that it would be needed because I don’t see Turkey arresting and killing all the Jews in their country now.
Lakewood Fellow -“Again, They said “Homeland” to exclude any kind of Jewish state or Jewish control, and they made this clear as well.
And why did some Zionists insist on a State?
If they wanted a State of Jews -where Jews were the Gov., then why did they nix the British idea of Uganda which Herzl agreed to?
Let them all pack up and move Now to Uganda and the Charedim and the arabs living now in EY will be very happy.
“High Commissioner Samuel was working with what he had:
A reluctant Britain who grudgingly recognizing that Jews had some sort of right to Israel while basically saying to the Arabs that they had the Arabs backs if they complained about it, and the Hostile Arabs. He tried to negotiate an agreement on immigration that would make the British and Arabs happy.”
I hate to disillusion you but Samuel lived way before Churchill. He did it to make the arabs happy, not the English. The English wanted to let as many as possible Jews in. He started it and later the British followed his policies.
“Of course Jews giving in to Anti Semites and assuming that if they would just be reasonable the Anti Semites would love the Jews didn’t work and the British responded by issuing whitepaper after whitepaper against the Jews, and the Arabs rioted and Killed Jews; while the British looked the other way and arrested and killed any Jews caught fighting the Arabs.”
More distortion of history. The Arabs weren’t Antisemitic at that time, only AntiZionism. The English wanted to appease the arabs, just like they wanted to appease the Jews. But the Zionists were -we won’t compromise with anyone -it’s either all or nothing!