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TCG -“I also believe working in the medical field is the best thing a person can do hashkofically. What could be a better job than healing people from injury and illness?”
I actually believe a lot of people (Yid & Goy) join the medical field for the wrong reasons. I wish a lot would leave or be thrown out.
Mods -Please delete one -It’s only supposed to be one post.
ilovetheholyland -“cant get the guys to give a yes 🙁 “
I don’t what I’m saying yes to, but I’m a guy and I say Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Now that you have your yesses, are you happy now? 🙂 ;] 😉 :} It’s Adar -Don’t worry -be happy!
Many people -Gents & Ladys are in your situation.
800 kilobear -“I prefer the Old Williamsburgh style Rav Shtarkman’s Beis Din”
Are you talking about landing on the BQE from the crossover bridges in Willi?
marbehshalom -“health – i need only lovaza for my condition.”
Look I know how to prescribe medications, but I’m not saying whether I’m a doctor or not. I looked it up – Lovaza is 1 gm of fish oil per capsule. The avg. dose is 4 gm per day. This equals to 4 capsules a day.
From the Maxi-health web page:
“Q: Why is Maxi Omega 3 2000, the fish oil supplement of choice?
1.) Contains 2000 mg of fish oil, the highest concentration of its kind in a kosher, vegetarian capsule”
If you switch to Maxi-health you’d only have to take 2 capsules per day.
Tell your PCP to get off his/her high horse. Tell them you aren’t going to take Non-kosher pills. Esp. when Maxi-health makes something almost the exact same. I know why these guys insist on Lovaza, but I’m not going to go into it here. Try the Maxi-health and then do blood work -your PCP might be surprised and it might work better than Lovaza or at least the same.
marbehshalom -“health – i need only lovaza for my condition.”
Look I know how to prescribe medications, but I’m not saying whether I’m a doctor or not. I looked it up – Lovaza is 1 gm of fish oil per capsule. The avg. dose is 4 gm per day. This equals to 4 capsules a day.
From the Maxi-health web page:
“Q: Why is Maxi Omega 3 2000, the fish oil supplement of choice?
1.) Contains 2000 mg of fish oil, the highest concentration of its kind in a kosher, vegetarian capsule”
If you switch to Maxi-health you’d only have to take 2 capsules per day.
Tell your PCP to get off his/her high horse. Tell them you aren’t going to take Non-kosher pills. Esp. when Maxi-health makes something almost the exact same. I know why these guys insist on Lovaza, but I’m not going to go into it here. Try the Maxi-health and then do blood work -your PCP might be surprised and it might work better than Lovaza or at least the same.
hello99 -“Which part of it?”
This part:
“on a true medicine it is permitted.”
000646 -“Health, The point here is simple.
I believe that using the fact that you can refuse to sell a service that someone else needs (facilitating a get), in order to get them to buy additional services from you (arbitration of custody etc.), is wrong. Especially if the person is willing to pay you well for the service they are asking for. You disagree. Again if you don’t see how this is wrong I really cannot explain it to you any clearer!”
Here we go again & again. For the millionth time -It’s not a separate service. It’s all part of the divorce process.
“I have a problem with using the fact that someone in your community needs a service that only you offer, to coerce them into buying more services from you. Especially when the service you are coercing them to buy does not have everything any reasonable person would expect for that service (i.e oversight, right to appeal etc.)”
For the millionth & one time – they aren’t two separate services!
“That being said we are going in circles here and apparently I am offending everyone. Maybe we can agree to disagree….”
Oh, I agree with you. A lot of Bottei Dinim are corrupt. Stop focusing on a Naarishkeit (a little thing). Rant about real Rishous. And even more secular courts are corrupt. But one day all these Judges (Yid & Goy) will be in the final Judgment. Then all their victims will have a permanent revenge.
“and I just pray you never have to go through this system?”
Well maybe the next marriage. The last one ended in divorce.
ZeesKite -“Again ({and again and..}) – you don’t have to call me any names or be upset with me. Neither a megaleh ponim, nor a Joseph(!?! – where did that come from?). I’m not in this to fight, at all!!”
I didn’t call you a name -I just said you posted differently when you posted under the Joseph name.
As far as Megaleh Ponim -you were; because you defended molesters and said they are B’chlal Amesecha. This was done on purpose probably. Either way B’mazid or B’shogeg you have to do Teshuva. There almost is No such thing as a one time molester and you said all molesters.
“Getting back to my point – as you yourself so well repeated – a mumar lta’avon, muchzak, as a molester, still need requirements. As you’ve stated “as long as you don’t make more than it is..” A porek ol does not need any requirements. Kindly correct me if I’m wrong.”
Look you said all molesters, even ones that you & they have completed all requirements. Since this isn’t the Halacha you were Megaleh Ponim B’torah Shelo K’halacha. The question to you was do you hate molesters the same way you hate DF. And your answer was you don’t hate molesters because they are only Mumers L’teavon. Since most Molesters don’t fall into this category -you either like them anyway, in spite of them being Reshayim or you pick and choose what part of the C.C. to listen to.
“As far as your referencing to Gemorahs that say about whom HaShem hates, I don’t think it’s brought down ANYWHERE, in any sefer halacha or mussar, as a Mitzvah for US to hate those who HaShem hates. As HaLeiVi quoted a Gemarrah that says HaShem hates someone who walks suddenly into his OWN house (Nidda 16b). Many other things there too.”
Noone said that you have to hate s/o because Hashem hates them. You keep posting the same thing. Stop twisting my words.
Btw, now that you finally posted where the Gemorah is – I looked it up. Ben Sira says 3 I hate and four I don’t love. The one Hashem doesn’t love is entering the home etc. He doesn’t hate it.
R’ Shimon Bar Yochai says 4 things Hashem hates. So you see Hashem hates the action, not the person, as opposed to a “Frum Faker” -Hashem hates the person.
Now back to my point -The only Heter to hate another Jew if he is a Rosho. So you hate DF because she is a Rosho -fine. I asked do you hate other Reshayim, like “Frum Fakers” eg. molesters as much as her. Since you Dreyed out of it -I can only assume you don’t.
Why you don’t I just discussed above. But the fact that you don’t hate other Reshayim, even those that it says Hashem hates -this I find very problematic!
800 Kilo Bear -“Those who covered for molestors in earlier days frankly barely understood the whole issue in many cases.”
Wake up call to hibernating bears in Russia, Ukraine, Siberia or wherever -Sorry here in the US they still cover for them!
geshmak drink -From the NYC Dept. of Health:
“What Are the Signs of a Problem?
How can you tell whether you, or someone close to you, may have a drinking problem? Answering the following four questions can help you find out. (To help remember these questions, note that the first letter of a key word in each of the four questions spells “CAGE”.)
Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking? Yes No
Have people annoyed you by criticizing your drinking? Yes No
Have you ever felt bad or guilty about your drinking? Yes No
Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover (eye opener)? Yes No
One “yes” answer suggests a possible alcohol problem. If you responded “yes” to more than one question, it is highly likely that a problem exists. In either case, it is important that you see your doctor or other health care provider right away to discuss your responses to these questions. He or she can help you determine whether you have a drinking problem and, if so, recommend a course of action for you.
marbehshalom- “but what does one do when they are taking a large pill like lovaza? The kosher capsules are simply not large enough.”
Question: Do you scratch your left ear with you right hand?
Why does anybody need to take Lovasa? They make kosher fish oil. I searched online and Maxi-health has a few different ones.
ZeesKite -“You don’t have to be unconformable with me. As I’ve stated over and over – I’m a professed know-nothing-at-all. You’re new here (at least your screen name), you don’t know me.”
Funny when you posted as Joseph -you claimed to be a know -it-all!
“As far as you question to “enlighten you”
Chofetz Chaim says a ???? ??? ?”? does not need any ?????. Period. One does it for that purpose – ??????.
A ???? ?????? however need ?????. He’s not ??? ???? ?????. That’s your local molester. Nowadays, things have to be dealt with differently, given the nature of their illness/ cravings/ addictions, but halachah doesn’t change. Let’s say word must be out about a certain individual (halacha permitting), it’s not allowed to be done with malicious intent. All other ????? too, must be adhered to.
Look it up. Not my own. Chofetz Chaim. Sefer Hilchos Lashon Hara.
If you get a different psak, kindly let me, all of us, know.”
Now you went ahead and were Megaleh Ponim B’Torah Shelo K’halacha.
Calling a molester s/o who isn’t out of Amesecha. I guess you don’t know what a molester is. Molesters don’t just do it one time. The CC says Klal 4 #7 -“If s/o isn’t careful on one Aveira that e/o knows is an Aveira and he does this on purpose many times… such a person is not part of Amesech and you can embarrass him and talk bad about him.” Baer Mayim Chayim -“As long as you know for sure the guy is guilty and you don’t make it out more than it is.”
ZK – “It seems like you’re all missing the main point. She is a ??????. She’s doing it out of spite. And it’s all public, as public as can be. All the media, all the world wide web, all the book-stands etc. There are many who HaShem hate, does not nesecerily mean we too have to.”
No, actually you’re missing the point or deliberately avoiding it.
“As HaLeiVi pointed out, their are many thing HaShem hates (Health, there are other Gemarahs too, this one could maybe be in Niddah), like one who walks in suddenly into his OWN house.”
Where exactly is this Gemorah & how do you know -I thought you can’t read without Nekudos? I doubt the Gemorah says Hashem hates him, but he hates the action of entering. That’s why I asked for the Maroh Mokom.
“Does that mean we too have to hate? No.”
It depends on whether the person is a Rosho or not!
“But I think a ???? ??????? is permitted to dislike after warning him – and then catching him in the act three times. A ???? ?????? doesn’t need any ????. She may be in the category of ????? also, that depends where this leads to.
We’re bidden to love our ????? – our Torah kinfolk. If after reading all the web, media, reviews etc. you still think she fits the bill, then, as someone here wrote, what are you smoking…”
Listen the Torah requires you hate every Rosho -so I have no problem that you hate DF.
But again do you hate “Frum Fakers” as much as you hate her? And a “Frum Faker” is in the category of whom Hashem’s hates, while it doesn’t say Hashem hates people like DF, no matter how big a Rosho she is!
You seem to have a problem answering a simple question!
000646 -“Please explain why you say this being that she needs the Get.”
She needs a Get acc. to the Torah, but noone is forcing her to keep the Torah. If she wants to keep the Torah and get a Get, she has to do it on the B’D terms. They have the choice when s/o asks them to help with a Get to oversee the whole divorce process.
Why can’t you understand such a simple idea? While you might have a few Bottei Dinim that are corrupt, by & large most who do this -aren’t!
“Actually a Judge would say fine, go submit to Binding Arbitration for custody and assets if you want. In fact that is what happens in most Frum Divorces.”
When’s the last time you were in court? They will never tell you go for arbitration that’s not under their auspices. If you bring an arbitration agreement by yourself -more than likely they will accept it. Again you are living in your own little dream world -just to put down Bottei Dinim.
“Who here is being forced? why should any partner in a marriage be have to stay married if they no longer wish to?”
You answered your own question because of why they got rid of “fault only” divorce. Yes, noone should have to stay in a marriage they don’t want -hence the legislation. But the fact remains if one doesn’t want to get divorced -they will be forced by the court to get divorced.
Acc. to your train of thought that one party should never be forced to do anything when it comes to divorce and it’s immoral -where is your outcry on this law???? And don’t tell me B’D forcing the woman who asked for Get is different because we are talking about $ & custody; because the one party is also being forced to talk about $ & custody, even though he/she doesn’t want to get divorced.
hello99 -“Health: Why are you asking me, you consider me a compulsive Machmir?”
I do, but most Poskim are. (:0
I’m actually surprised at your answer.
But to tell you the truth I wasn’t asking you on medicine. My question was on this – “Listen to me -just because one Achron says Mutter and another says Assur doesn’t make it a Sofek D’oraysa and you have to be Machmir.”
You know how Psak works -does a Machlokes Achronim make it into a Safek D’oraysa?
HaLeiVi -“Because the Gemara says that Hashem hates it.”
Where is this Gemorah? It’s not in Pesachim like the things I quoted above.
000646 -“Health,
If you will not accept the fact that telling someone “either arbitrate with us or we will make it impossible for you to remarry, issue public notices calling you a zonah,and we will make your future children mamzerim” is forcing I guess I won’t be able to convince you that there is force involved here.”
And I honestly don’t understand the way you think. They aren’t forcing the Get. If she wants to be religious, she asks B’D willingly to get her a Get. If she doesn’t care about the Get -she can get divorced in civil court. The fact that once she asks for a Get that they have the right to oversee the whole divorce process isn’t called forcing.
It just seems to be that you don’t believe B’D should have any power. You think that if s/o shows up and asks for a Get that they (B’D) have no right to demand that in order for them to give it – they will do all aspects of the divorce. You think when this woman tells the B’D jump (Or get me a Get), they should say “How high?”. Sorry, go learn what a B’D is meant for. They aren’t your Shick Yingle (Message boy)!
Why don’t you try this in civil court -tell the Judge he can only judge up about the divorce and not the custody or money aspects of the divorce or vice -versa -only the custody & money aspects but he can’t divorce you? Let see what the Judge says? I’ll give you three guesses. Last year NY removed themselves from requiring a fault only divorce. This means no where in this country do you need both parties to agree to divorce. If one party wants a divorce -they get it.
How come you aren’t screaming -“Immoral -they have No right to force you.”?
marbehshalom -“health- 1.the reason i say to bemachmir like the nodeh beyudah is beacause it is a shaloh of di’oraysa which we go after the machmir, besides the nodeh beyehuda is from the gedolei haposkim”
Listen to me -just because one Achron says Mutter and another says Assur doesn’t make it a Sofek D’oraysa and you have to be Machmir. Who told you this? This makes no sense.
Hello99 -what do you say?
Secondly, I didn’t get from the P.T. that he was bringing down the N.B. because he held like him. If Halacha L’maasseh we held like the N.B. the Achronim would say so. They didn’t mince words.
And anyway it’s Mutter because it would be a Sfek Sfeka, like I posted above. Is gelatin Ossur to eat? And even if it is, is swallowing Derech Acheila or not?
marbehshalom -“health— you may be right about some capsules but i am not sure if gelcaps are dried like wood”
That’s not what I said -I’ll quote- “-“Since the blood is so dried – it’s like wood -it’s Mutter.” A capsule is definitely just as dry. (Blood that is sun-dried just congeals.)”
The point I was making was that the blood is only congealed and yet they consider it like wood. A capsule is even more dry.
ZK -“As for me, someone is attacking me, My Creator, My Torah (NO SMALL ATTACK) – I’ll fight back. No. Now is not the time for asking sha’alos. Sha’alos one asks if one must hate a “Frum Faker”, an abuser, a spitter etc. She’s slapping me (big-time), I’m slapping back. Period. You’d do no differently.”
Funny -you decided there is no Shaila here, but you must ask about a Frum Faker (whom you know is one).
Do you only believe in Torah Shebksav and not Torah SheBaal Peh?
I just posted to you that Hashem hates a Frum Faker more than other Reshahyim (If at all). So how come this lady who is just a Rosho you have no Shaila and just hate her and a Frum Faker you do have a Shaila?
A Frum Faker is hated by Hashem. Who says she (DF) is? Saying it’s a Mitzva to hate Reshayim -is Not a proof. Prove she is in the catergory that it says on – Hashem hates them!
Better go out and get an English Gemorah like Artscroll because there are no Neukudos in the Aramaic versions!
HaLeiVi -“Health, so you hate ‘Frum fakers’ as much as someone who enters his house without knocking?”
Why should I hate s/o who doesn’t knock on the door?
000646 -“No. She asked them to facilitate the writing of a Get and that only because they are the only ones who can possibly do this. The only place you can receive a Get is in B”D.”
Yes, but like I said umpteen times already -asking for a Get is part of the divorce process. If she wants to separate the Get from the other part -it’s at the B’D’s discretion. They don’t have to separate the divorce process No matter how many times you say they do!
“Batei Din will even say that if she somehow gets the goyishe courts to force the husband to give a Get that the Get is no good and no one can marry the women. So it isn’t true that she has an option to go somewhere else for a Get.”
I never said she has an option to get a Get elsewhere. What I said was she has the option to go to secular court and get divorced. Noone is forcing her to go to Bais Din. She wants to go to B’D because she wants a Get. If she doesn’t want a Get she can go to secular court. What don’t you understand about this?
I’m anxiously awaiting your next post of repeating the same point over & over & over, but with different wording!!!!
000646 -“Right. They just say “If you ever want to be able to marry anyone else and have children that aren’t Mamzerim you have to arbitrate everything with us”.”
They only say that if she doesn’t want to listen to them.
It can’t be her way or the highway!
“You yourself admitted that if the B”D wants they could choose not to Arbitrate custody and assets, so of course they are separate services.”
That doesn’t make them separate. I said B’D has the right to separate them. They also have the right to Not separate them & keep it altogether.
000646 -“Please explain why my Moshol is not comparable. I think it’s the same exact thing.”
I know you do; that’s why I answered you step by step.
“Again,
If someone is coming to the B”D to pay for a service they offer-namely supervising the writing of a Get, Using the fact that they happen to need this service is not an excuse for it’s provider to insist that the people who NEED it (it is not a luxury) need to buy more services from the B”D. Namely the Arbitration of custody and Assets, in order to receive the necessary service of receiving a Get.”
Again -“That’s your mistake. These aren’t separate services. They are all part & parcel of the divorce.” She came Willingly to them to take care of her divorce!
Syag Lchochma -The Mitzva in the Torah is to hate Reshahyim.
Once that person does Teshuva -they are no longer called a Rosho.
Now they have a Din of just like anyone else.
It’s the BT generation. We don’t hate BT’s once they become Frum -they are just like e/o else.
Anonym613 -“Of course, we hate the Frum Fakers. There is no question about that.”
Not e/o in the community does. There are some who will go to all ends to defend these people.
“However, I believe the issue here, in this thread, is that not only did DF go OTD; but she wants to persuade others to do so, too,”
Maybe she wants to, but unless that person is on the way out anyway, her book will have no influence. Most Frum people see the ludicrisy in her book. So to use this point against her is ridiculous. She has fed the many anti-semities amongst the American public, but she has done No direct damage!
ZK -“I just subtly commented on your choice of words “I hope your hatred to Frum fakers is a least as great as …” You wrote it, not me. (Does that not imply that I must hate a Frum Faker more than a rabid hater of God?)”
Not more, at least as much. Funny you try to give the impression here in the CR that you’re a learned person, but you don’t know a simple Gemorah. So since you don’t know this Gemorah -you decided I was wrong and you had the right to post to me the way you did.
I guess when you think you’re right -you can use any put-down you want to.
The reason I posted that way was because the Gemorah in the end of Pesachim (Pretty sure, not 100% sure it’s there.) says one of the people Hashem hates is a two-faced person. “Someone who says one way and thinks in his heart a different way.” So if Hashem hates Frum Fakers, while it doesn’t say he hates all Reshayim, certainly a person should hate Frum Fakers as much as that person hates Reshayim!
000646 -“Of course it’s up too the individual were they should Arbitrate Custody and Assets! Why should it be up too the B”D if she didn’t ask them?”
She did ask them. She asked them to divorce her from her husband.
“She is coming to the B”D to pay for a service they offer-namely supervising the writing of a Get. Using the fact that she happens to need this service is not an excuse for her to be forced to buy more services from the B”D namely the Arbitration of custody and Assets, in order to receive the necessary (for her) service of receiving a Get.”
That’s your mistake. These aren’t separate services. They are all part & parcel of the divorce.
You keep repeating the same thing. Either come up with a new point or don’t post at all.
There is no point in sounding like a broken record!!!!!!!!!!!
000646 -“That’s like putting a gun to someone’s head and saying: “If you want to live-notice I say the word want you should give me all of your money”, then claiming that you didn’t force the person to give you his money. I mean after all he could have chosen to die-right?”
No, your example is a case of being forced.
B’D doesn’t force anybody to come to them. They come on their own free will!
MSS -You speak the Emes.
+10
000646 -“Health,
Let’s say someone has the only Mikvah on earth and he said he would not let any women use it unless they pay him an entrance fee to cover his costs AND they invest all of their money in his other businesses.”
Look I’m not your shrink – so I ain’t getting any money from you -so I’m not interested in living in your dream world or living in your castle in the sky.
But even though there is absolutely no comparison -I’ll play along.
“Would that be morally acceptable to you?”
Why – is the guy who runs the Mik asking my opinion?
“Would you expect a decent human being to act that way?”
It depends on why he is the only one -obviously there must be a good reason why there is only one.
“Would you consider him to be forcing the Jewish people to invest their money with him?”
Absolutely NOT!!!!!!
ZK -“Let’s put it this way, one who the Torah and the Halachah says I must hate, then yes, it is a mitzvah, and I must develop an attitude as such. Is there a mitzvah to hate a “frum faker”? Don’t know. It’s not a ???? ??????. I would have to ask my Rabbi about that. But this one’s definitely a ???? ??????, if there was ever!”
You don’t know about Frum Fakers, but you know about her????
Acc. to the Chofetz Chaim -anybody who does an Aveira over & over is a Mumer -so any Frum Faker is a Mumer. It’s really amazing you hate her more than you hate molesters! (That was the question that I posed to you.) You’re not even sure if you are allowed to hate molesters, but you are sure about this mixed up woman from Willi!
“But I take issue with your wording. Which is what I’m trying to bring out all along. WHY IS KOVOD HASHEM ANY LESS then a person’s??? Should I really hold a person, ??? ??? in the same esteem I hold my Creator??? I should hate “frum fakers” at least as much??? A bit of kovod to your (MY) Creator is in store.”
Your Chutzpa is outrageous! Where did I ever say “Kovod to Hashem is less than a persons”? Where did I ever say you should hold a –
“??? ??? in the same esteem you hold you Creator”??
Maybe you don’t know what a Frum Faker is – that’s why I gave an example of a child molester.
Or maybe you think that you’re G-d and I can’t dare comment on anything you post!?!?!
marbehshalom -“one d should be machmir like the nodeh beyehudah”
Besides you, who said you should be Machmir like him?
And even if this is what the P.T. means you didn’t read the last part -“Shvus Yaakov was asked -why are people Noiheg to eat & drink blood -by a Choileh Shein Bo Sakanah where something is giving him pain?” He gives two answers. I’ll just repeat the first -“Since the blood is so dried – it’s like wood -it’s Mutter.” A capsule is definitely just as dry. (Blood that is sun-dried just congeals.)
Also it’s not so Pashut that gelatin is even Ossur -it seems to be a Chumra from R. Moshe zt’l that e/o took on. I see absolutely no reason to be Machmir here because it’s a Chumra on a Chumra! But I definitely get a kick out of watching all these Machmirim try to swallow capsules in a tissue or opening them up and getting the powder all over the place.
ZK -I agree with soliek until she wrote the book, afterwards I agree she created a massive Chillul Hashem.
“And sometimes the way to heights is by hating evil, evildoers.”
Mr. or Mrs. ZK -Do you have the same disdain for other Reshayim? Like do you feel the same way towards child molesters who work or worked in a Yeshiva? I hope your hatred to Frum fakers is a least as great as your hatred toward this lady!
akuperma -I try to make sure my vitamins are kosher. Even things like Non-kosher Tylenol -shouldn’t be a problem, if No kosher ones are available to you right now, because medicine doesn’t have to be only used to cure -if it makes you feel better it’s also medicine; and swallowing capsules is not Derech Acheila!
(Not Paskening, just giving my opinion.)
000646 -“Health, To arbitrate something like custody Children it is very reasonable to only wish to do so in a system that has some sort of oversight and recourse if someone believes they are the victim of judicial misconduct. Not so with the writing of a get.”
It might be reasonable to want this, but it’s not upto the individual’s choice. It’s upto the BD to decide if they will allow such a route.
“As far as forcing a women to arbitrate in a B”D if the only way she can receive a get is by arbitrating everything in a B”D if that is what the B”D wants – and they just about always do the women is in effect forced to arbitrate everything in B”D wether she wishes to or not”
Stop using the word force. If she Wants a Get -notice the word Want, then they have the right to give the Get acc. to their terms. If she has no interest in a Get -she definitely can go to secular court for any custody, financial issues that occur during a divorce. She isn’t forced to do anything!
Here is a sentence using the word “force”:
You can’t force the BD to issue a Get on her terms only. They have the right to determine the terms in which she can get a “GET”!
000646 -“Health,
Removing barriers to the women getting remarried namely giving her a get will have no bearing on the allocation of assets or custody. The women can still be sued in BD or secular court if she has received a get, a get would not even dissolve the civil marriage.”
Twisting your words doesn’t mean you have a new point -you keep repeating the same old -same old.
Listen if she wants to keep the Torah and use a Bais Din -Bais Din has the right to oversee all aspects of the divorce. If they decide to just issue a Get and tell them to fight the rest out in court is also fine. But they have the right to say we want to judge up the whole case, from begining to end, not just the Get.
Not only is this Not immoral, it’s probably the best way to do it. If anybody like you or the woman, don’t like this -they have the option of going to secular court. Noone is forced to go to Bais Din, they want to because they want to keep the Torah!
tzaddiq – “Reish-one day in the near future iy”h i’ll be a rosh yeshiva”
You can’t be a Rosh Yeshiva because of your name -“tzaddiq”.
This is an oxymoron if there ever was one! (:0
646 -“You are right though the qoute talks about how it would be too dangereous to appoint an oversight comittee for bate Din because the dayanim would kill them-“
Noone ever taught you what an exaggeration is?
Yes, there are corrupt Bais Dins.
Yes, some will try to get their way by threats.
But by & large most care about upholding the Torah.
Do the state courts care about the Torah?
You want women to just demand the Bais Din to insist that the husband gives the Get -she can get it without ever giving in on anything.
This is called my way or the highway.
Not only is this immaturity and going against Halacha -it’s morally wrong!
soliek -Don’t put you into her shoes. She isn’t you. I wrote a long post of why I felt she deserves no mercy, but it was deleted.
Her and her publisher thrive on putting down people (Jews) who throughout the ages have always been put down. No matter what her motive -this is very wrong and non-excusable!
000646 -You should know I wrote a response to every single one of your so-called points, but it was deleted.
Not one of your posts has any logic in them, let alone it shows your adversary to the Torah system with the use of Bais Din to give judgements.
besalel -“but i do not believe that my religious beliefs should be the guide by which laws of the united states are legislated.”
As far as this point -I can see both sides of the issue. But applying this to Toieva marriage – you are very much mistaken.
I already posted giving these people more & more rights have caused Frum people to fall into their trap. Are you so living in your own little cocoon that you don’t realize this? Or are you so
self-centered that you don’t even care about other Frum Jews?
NOMTW -“Good Point. According to the literature I’ve read, Anorexia and OCD are closely related”
OCD is found with Bulimia also. A partial quote from an article:
“These six anxiety disorders defined above have all been examined in research studies aimed at determining the comorbidity of anxiety and eating disorders. However, some have been found to play a great role than others. Social phobia, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and specific phobias have the highest rates of co-occurrence with bulimia nervosa, while social phobia and obsessive-compulsive disorder have the highest rates of co-occurrence with anorexia nervosa (Wonderlich & Mitchell, 1997).”
RT -“I am not sure which Sefer you are referring to”
Sefer Taamey Haminhagim.
big deal -“Instead of redefining marriage, why don’t we just write a law giving tax cuts and health insurance to two people who can prove that they live in the same place.”
They already have this in Jersey -it’s called civil unions.
“What’s the point of saying something is that when its in fact not and for millennia never was.”
The point is – officially the state is recognizing their way of life equal to normal way of life.
cherry bim cherry bum -I hope I don’t know you from NIRC.
Your post reminds me of the song -Abi M’leibt, Abi M’leibt.
Think first -“Health- I’d question that sefer, from what I’ve learned from my rebeim is that all neshamos are gilgulim today.”
And there are those that question whether there even is such a thing as Gilgul. (Reshash)
But the source is a Choshuve Sefer. It’s not my fault that you & your Rebbeyim never heard of this. The more you learn -the more you know.
1. It’s a Machlokes whether there is such a thing as Gilgul.
2. One Sefer says this (Gilgul) applies only to men. I haven’t heard anybody say it applies to women. Saying e/o is a Gilgul – can just mean whomever this can apply to; namely men, not women!
646 -“What the husband is trying to do is find her in violation of the religious clause and and take away the days she currently has with her children.”
Well if she truly is in violation, then there is a reason why she should be punished. Do you think this doesn’t happen in secular courts?
The problem with you is – you don’t think that whatever a Bais Din does has any validity. This is because you have been influenced by liberalism. This might come as a shock to you, but most secular courts in this country, except for of course -NY & NJ courts, will enforce a religious agreement clause.
Stop being such an antisemitie because of your bad childhood!
soliek -“can someone please approve my previous post?”
Yes Bomb maniac -a lot of your post makes sense. But you aren’t going to get any sympathy from the posters here.
I remember me trying to explain the spitters’ reasons in Bais Shemesh and all I got here was that I was defending them.
I believe you that you’re just explaining her, but noone else will. I can do this because I’m intelectually honest.
No matter what her reason -I believe you just have to consider her “the one (fish) that got away”.
But no matter what her reason -people have to realize she did tremendous damage to the Frum community. This isn’t really excusable on her part. She fed the blood-thirsty, antisemitic population a nice tasty morsel. I’m not saying e/o in this country is like this, but it’s definitely more than a small minority.
A lot of people here don’t even realize they are antisemitic. When many potential employers told me they would never hire me because I wouldn’t work on Shabbos -they didn’t realize the underlying reason that they wouldn’t accommodate me – was due to their antisemitism. In reality, letting an employee off one day a week, (esp. a weekend day where business is much slower in most industry), would not cause any real financial damage to 99% of companies in this country.