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LF, you said that the dog-owners are your neighbors and that you don’t want to start up with them. I was assuming they are non-613ers.
Do you mean that you live in a mixed neighborhood? Well, then, that was my point. There are neighborhoods that only have Chareidim – in Eretz Yisrael and Lakewood, l’havdil. I don’t know about Brooklyn – it’s one of the few places I have never lived in.
oh, I thought you were being overly-liberal since it doesn’t technically say anywhere that women and men have to sit on different parts of the bus.
I’m glad to hear you weren’t.
Personally, I wouldn’t have phrased it this way: “putting women in the back of the bus”. I would have said something like “having separate sections on the bus for men and women”.
Of course, I know what you mean,LB, but others reading this who are not familiar with our society could easily misinterpret.
good one, DY!
I do sympathize with you. I’m very glad I don’t live in your neighborhood, especially since dogs are not my best friends!
The only solution I can come up with is to move.
Make aliyah and move to a Chareidi neighborhood. If that’s not an option, move to a chareidi neighborhood in the US.
If that’s not an option, I have no idea. Is it illegal? Can you try calling the police? Would that help?
LB – LF is a man.
Thank you for posting a post on this thread that I can actually read and respond to (no patience for long political posts).
Meno, are you thinking what I think you’re thinking?
Well I didn’t know until now.
LB: “2) Isn’t it? Wasn’t it? Isn’t it?”
I think Meno’s point is that it’s not technically assur for men and women to sit in the same section of the bus.
However, there are halachic problems that can arise if you don’t have separate seating. For one thing, there are women who don’t dress tzniusly. And for another, if you are a girl, you don’t want a strange man sitting next to you on a bus, v’hamaivin yavin. And it’s not always so easy to just stand up when someone does sit next to you.
LB: “With one parent going in the quiet adult section.”
It’s only adults who are travelling without children who would request the adult-only section.
If anyone uses it your way, they clearly have shalom bayis issues to begin with. Or else, one parent just really needs to get sleep more than the other for whatever reason. Maybe, he (or she) is going on a speaking tour when they land, or maybe he (or she) has CFS, etc. But in that case, presumably this is something they discussed and decided was necessary. And if not, they need marriage therapy anyhow.
LB -“Maybe it’s also important for mothers whose babies are still nursing.”
How does it help them if there is an adult-only zone? The only thing that would help them is a women’s only zone. Personally, I would like that.
“Still if they have an adult section then the children’s section also ought to be accommodating with space for changing diapers and etc.
Though it’s also expecting parents to get along with each other. And their children to handle sitting next to each other.”
There wouldn’t be a child-only zone. There would be two sections of the plane:
1. For those adults who specifically request to be in an adult-only zone. Any adult travelling with a child can not sit here.
2. For everyone else on the plane. This includes children, adults travelling with children, and adults who did not specifically request to be in an adult-only zone. This would include most of the people of the plane, especially since the adult-only zone probably costs more.
So I don’t see what the problem is. There are probably only a few people who specifically request and pay for the adult -only zone.
(Oh, was that what you meant, Meno? You were responding to the OP? The conversation at that point had kind of branched out, so I forgot about her question.).
I know that when you reserve a ticket, you can request to sit next to another female (or male, as the case may be), so maybe you can also request to be placed next to adults. Has anyone ever tried that?
So what did you mean, Meno?
I think that people should try to be as natural as possible about their eating habits and not eat more or less than they feel a need to simply for the purpose of gaining or losing weight for appearance’s sake. But that is just my opinion.
M – he’s not making a joke; he’s explaining why he thinks the ban is necessary in order to prevent suffering. He actually took the effort to do so in a nice way instead of attacking those who are attacking those who made the ban.
arguing
greener
Note: Since we started this, I have been wondering what posters’ word choices reflect about them. A lot of times, it is probably just associations from the previous word.
but to go from praying to arguing strikes me as funny…(j/k – I know these things can be meaningless 🙂 )
Meno – “As it is, a vast majority of people who fly don’t fly with small children, so it shouldn’t be a big deal to just consolidate those who do.”
I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying that it shouldn’t be necessary to have an adult-only section since they can just consolidate those who are flying without kids? If that is what you are saying, that is exactly what the point of adult-only sections is – to consolidate those who are flying without kids. But they are only going to do it if the people ask. Why should they do it unless they are specifically asked to do so (and probably paid as well)?
Or when you wrote, “it shouldn’t be a big deal to consolidate those who do” are you talking about the adult-only sections and saying that you don’t think it’s a big deal and you don’t understand why we are having a discussion about it?
If that’s your point, I don’t think that anyone here thought it’s a big deal. Joseph thought it’s discriminating to children, so others explained why they don’t think so. And then posters were just writing about how and where it’s done.
And then LC brought up one practical problem, and CTL and others gave solutions to that problem.
The only thing that’s “a big deal” about it is that it seems to be a newish concept and one that most airlines haven’t thought about doing until recently. I guess it just never occurred to them.
It’s funny because just last Shabbos I was at someone’s house and someone was talking about kids on planes and I asked if there is such a concept as a child-free section, but I had never actually heard of such a thing before, and then, punkt 2 days later, someone starts a thread about it..
I wonder why no one ever thought about it before. Maybe because it sounds discriminatory. Or maybe because it’s only really necessary on international flights, and the seating arrangements on those can be so complicated as it is.
I remember one El Al flight I was on. I was in a row with 3 seats, the middle seat was empty, and there was an 18 year old boy on his way to Yeshiva in the other seat. A Frum man came over and asked him if he could switch seats. It had something to do with the fact that he was traveling with his little kid but hadn’t been able to reserve 2 seats next to each other, so he figured that he would wait until he got into the plane and try to find a way to rearrange seats.
The boy said “no”, but felt uncomfortable about it, and after the man left, he explained to me that he had already changed seats once even though it meant giving up a window seat (or maybe it was an aisle seat?). So I was like “but what are they going to do?” And he said, “don’t worry; the plane can’t take off until everyone has a seat.”
End of story – the plane took off about an hour late. There were a ton of kids on the flight, and it seems like there were many people in the same situation.
Another time, when I was flying between EY and the US, there was an untzniusly dressed lady sitting nearby, and I saw that the Frum man walking down the aisle who was supposed to sit next to her didn’t look so comfortable, so I offered to switch seats. This also entailed my asking the girl who had been sitting next to me to switch seats with her father.
The point is that when you have all these other seating complications to deal with, I could see why adding in another factor could get really complicated.
the secret is out! I see the years even add up…
does that mean you were the pilot?
Don’t Holocaust deniers deny the Holocaust? He’s not denying the holocaust; he’s just equalizing everyone who suffered. That sounds overly liberal to me.
LF + 10 million!!!!
Aren’t there usually sections on the plane with bathrooms in between? So as long as there are no children on your section, it shouldn’t be such a big deal.
Also, maybe the back and/or front rows can be reserved for adults who did not request to be in the adult-free zone.
Meno – there’s a section of the plane that is adult-only. The airline people do not give any of those seats to children below a certain age. Any adult who requests a seat in that section is given a seat in that section. I assume they usually have to pay extra, but maybe not.
All adults who don’t specifically request a seat in that section are not given a seat in that section (unless there are extra seats in that section and not enough seats in the regular section and they are not travelling with children).
That is how I understand it, but I guess those who know more about it can correct me if I’m wrong.
“If you have a ten-year old child flying alone, and can afford first class, wouldn’t you want your child to be up front with more attention to his/her comfort and needs than squashed in economy?”
On my flight to Israel, I ended up next to a Frum 11 year old girl who was flying by herself for the first time. I think she was really lucky that she ended up next to a nice Frum girl like me who was willing to look out for her and shmooze with her.
And she wasn’t squashed at all since there was an empty seat between us – well at least there was until she invited the new friend she made on the plane to sit there (something else that would have been less likely to happen on economy).
I don’t think it’s so bad for a child to travel economy – why should they get spoiled at such a young age?
CTL – I hear your point, but I think that:
1. They should call them adult-only flights as you did, so that no discrimination against children is implied.
2. They should make sure that the vast majority of flights are not child-free. Or at least they should make sure that there are enough regular flights available for those that are travelling with children.
3. It should only be babies and very young children who are not allowed on these flights.
Another Halachic update for Sephardim:
According to the Kitzur Yalkut Yosef (6/4), if you didn’t say asher yatzar within 72 minutes, you are not allowed to say it anymore.
This is unlike the Mishna Berurah who says that you have until the next time you have to use the bathroom.
Interesting Halachic update on this topic for Sephardim:
According to the Yalkut Yosef (Siman 4, Halacha 1): If one does not have a “kli” to wash negelvasser with, he should use the faucet, turning it on and off each time. He should NOT say the bracha of al netilas yadayim.
This is unlike the Mishna Berurah who says that you do in fact make a bracha in this case.
Since you are Sephardi, LB, it might be a problem for you to make a bracha in such a situation.
For Sephardim:
According to the Kitzur Yalkut Yosef (Siman 46, Halacha 9): If someone is up the entire night, he must say the entire birchos hashachar except for al netilas yadayim and asher yatzar.
If he uses the bathroom, he does say asher yatzar but not al netilas yadayim.
This is different than the MB (who most Ashkenazim follow) in the following ways:
1. According to the MB, you would not say Elokei Neshama or hama’avir (as mentioned by the OP). According to the Yalkut Yosef, you do.
2. According to the MB, you would not say birchos haTorah unless you slept the day before. According to the Yalkut Yosef, you do, even if you didn’t sleep the day before.
3. According to the MB, you do say al netilas yadayim if you use the bathroom. According to the Yalkut Yosef, you don’t.
Do they exist?
“Is it just me, or does having the embassy in Jerusalem sound extremely inconvenient? …It’s a big trip just for people who need to go to the embassy.”
Huh? Most people I know either live in Yerushalayim or on its outskirts or spend more time there than in Tel Aviv. And even if they don’t, most people I know would much prefer spending time in Yerushalayim than in Tel Aviv.
Amongst other things, you can go to the Kosel while you’re there. And you have the opportunity to be as close to the Shechina as possible.
unplugs
praying
That actually sounds like a leftist thing to do, so I fail to see the connection.
I often do exclamation points with smileys. I was actually just trying to figure out if it’s a problem or not! 🙂
Hi Lightbrite!
Is she Israeli?
For Israelis, that is the standard way to address someone – instead of “Hi Lightbrite,”, they write, “Hi Lightbrite!”.
At least that is what my Israeli family members do. It always makes me feel good, like they are really excited to be greeting me.
Hope you have a great day, LB!!
For Sephardim – according to the Kitzur Yalkut Yosef, if you are up all night, you do not say al netilas yadayim even if you go to the bathroom.
You do say birchos haTorah even if you did not sleep during the day before.
LB – PBA was the one in shul – not his kid. I mean his kid might have been in shul too, but that’s not necessarily where he was jumping around.
I have a feeling that his kid jumps around every week though. That’s why he needs a harness.
LC – it’s a good thing that I saw the last two posts before I saw your prior post, otherwise I might have thought you were calling me a moron, c”v :).
Boruch Hashem, I am SO, SO happy to hear that!!!! Please keep us updated and let us know how it goes.
In a way, it might be good that it’s your mother’s friend. I sometimes look back and wish that I had spoken to one of my mother’s friends about things that were happening at home. I feel like it could have been very helpful. It’s unfortunate that it never occurred to me to speak to anyone about stuff.
If it doesn’t work out with her, you can always ask your parents if you can go to someone else instead. But I think you should give her a try first and really put an effort into trying to make it work.
Hatzlacha!!! Keep us posted.
ringpop
noisier
ZD, btw, I actually try to make a point of finding points of agreement amongst those with whom I usually disagree.
now I know where to go the next time I’m looking for a heter…. 🙂
That is not true! I think there were other times when I agreed with you. And, I remember very recently that you actually quoted me 🙂 (come to think of it, it was in this very thread).
Boruch Hashem!
Hashem loves you!
Ari Goldwag
Ramat Beit Shemesh
Eretz Yisrael
make Aliyah today!
Mitzvos
Torah
Talmidei Chachamim
Rav Shteinman shlita
android
dirtier
What is norovirus?
CTL: Our children range from 42 to 19
Wow! bli ayin hara! I know you have mentioned some were adopted, so I guess that helps, but either way – kol hakavod!
k. thanks for the info. Guess I don’t have as much CR bekius as you do LB!
ZD – +1. I don’t think they can be blamed for looking for a heter.
lol. I was waiting for someone to comment on that! 🙂
As my teachers used to say, “just wanted to see if anyone was listening.”
LB – you can post comments on the main site. I guess you have to register separately.
I’m not sure if it works both ways though. I assume if you register for the main site, you would then have to register separately for the CR. But if you register for the CR first, I am not sure if you have to register separately for the main site.
I only once commented on the main site and I don’t remember how it worked. Joseph probably knows more.
LB – maybe it’s a different person. I’m not 100% sure, but I think that when a person’s name is changed, it changes for all the past posts as well. Unless of course, they sign up as a different person with a different account. But in that case, I doubt they would use a similar name.
Sometimes it’s confusing, because you’ll be looking at a past thread and you’ll see someone refer to “chanie” and you won’t see any Chanies (because Chanie’s name has since been changed to Shprintzy, and you can’t figure out who she is talking about.