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Chaim87 I understand you and something tells me this impossible suffocating conformity has something to do with it. So much so people feel embarrassed to live with their means. It feels unfair.
But being different, doing the right thing. _never_ felt easy. It takes lots of courage.
But isn’t courage worth it? That you do what works for you despite what the naysayers say, so that you can have true freedom?First of all, ya’all can start with yourselves.
Lol
Don’t wait for other people to change their spots. Start living your own life working within your own circumstances
.if you can only afford a shul for the wedding hall, start making wedding halls in a fancy shul. _you_ need to have the courage
And one person that makes the step will give space for others to do so.
It’s not up to us to change others. They will never change..but we can do something.
Stop conforming. Stop paying the bill. Stop paying the price.
The choice is yours not theirsI’m not sure who brought the holocaust into this. But they completely missed the point. Nobody was talking about the holocaust.
What I was trying to say is that God, who created the heavens and the earth chooses people, places, and things, that don’t always fits into the ideal, human ideals that we convince ourselves makes us whole. God uses them,.the imperfect.persom for the good of his purposes, that person you scorn that wears the outfit you don’t approve of, God is prob closer to them because they have authenticity your too afraid to embody. That imperfect individual in high school who you thought was a loser, is now the head of this and that situation because God saw within that person the potential you as a very fallable arrogant human, did not.
God sees the inner strengths of people, not just how well they perform, how much they lie to society about who they are.
But whether they embody the character traits necessary to build the tower that needs building. To fullfil the role that needs fulfilling.
Those people, places circumstances will never fit into your impossible box because your box only allows those who are inauthentic in. Those who play the part. Who look the part..say all the right things.
God does not use ._your_ ideal circumstances to fullfil his agenda because inauthenticity does not fill his purposes.
So when you look at Zionism and you say how “bad” it must be.
Your looking at God use things you disagree with, I’m your limited arrogant perspective, to push His agenda.
Cuz His way is not your way.
Your way is limited. His way is much better and more real then your way.It’s called dehumanizing others. And I’ve seen this behavior time and time again.
Means there’s some sort of rot in our bones or arragence or lack of humanity.
Not sure whichWhen I said “bad” I meant. Not in “alignment” with your belief system
There’s a huge differenceYou can just tell it, directly, I’m sorry but I didn’t ask for that.
Or I’m sorry what? Why are you interfering.
I call out my AI all the timeImperfect circumstances.
Things that don’t fit the human ideal which shows that humans, are fallable. And God doesn’t expect perfection from us.
Nor does his works on earth fit into the human control system of how things work. Because gods way is bigger then our way. Wiser then our way. And he sees the value in all humans despite their failingsHakatan. God uses imperfect people
DifferenceThere are horrible consequences in a society that has lost every vestige of its humanity.
When things become so overwhelmed with wealth, everyone gets squashed in this box of conformity.
Everything becomes about presentation and not depth of character.
It’s just rot. We are rotting from inside outChaim your overstepping a smidge. You have no right whatsoever to tell someone else what to do. But you can have a negative opinion about it, because you don’t agree with their choices they are making Theres a difference…I think at least lol.
It is morally corrupt behavior to be gluttonous,
It’s morally corrupt to flaunt wealth. The reason everyone hates it is because it’s being thrown in everyones faces and on top of that treated as trash for not living up to the “impossible” standards. It’s just rot. In the bones.
Only the wealthy get married, or at this point people only marry you if you have money….it’s just, there’s no humanity left.
It creates a hiarchy that eats at the soul. It affects society and how people relate to each other.
It leads to snobbery and terrible persecution towards others that don’t measure up.He’s asking here because we are also real life people, but there happens to be a screen between us.
Maybe it’s convenience
Maybe it’s other things..
That’s not. Your business.Cheskib, we _should_ do that. People should live within their means. Imagine how much.money and less stress people will have.
Dovid bt. Not everything your “told” is correct.
I think people who flaunt their wealth lack _morals_
And morals are gods law, God holds everyone accountable.4 things
When you brought up the holocaust. That’s when you missed the point
I debate a lot all over the internet ok? Not just here
I debate abortion
I debate feminism
People go crazy.
You know what happens every time you say “abortion is wrong?”
“But what about the 1% that this and this happened to”
And they’ll make 1 percent so dramatic, and push you against the wall to answer them, and tell me I’m a terrible person that I don’t “care” about people suffering.
You know what I call that tho?
Missing the point…
There is a pattern among brainwashed people
They can’t see sense.
They don’t want to.
That’s ok. Reality exists and continues to exist despite your beliefs.Qwerty none of your refutations (insults included) I agree with..just because you say something doesnt mean someone has to agree
Qwerty you have to judge content by whether you agree or not. Not if that content toes the line of some ideology.
Hakatan you might be stretching what the Torah requires. Zionism is a belief system that has nothing to do with Torah. Lol
Coffee addict. Not sure how that’s a contradiction….don’t get it.
And qwerty what did I say that didn’t make sense.
Do you have understanding of the word “concepts”
Tell me one thing I said that didn’t make sense
I think when you say the word gibberish it’s because it hurts you that I do make sense lolNOYB
Your right and also wrong
Let’s give an example to reiterate when it can be flaunting wealth and see if that can apply to lesser examples today
If I was very wealthy and I came to a really really poor town or neighborhood and I made an extravagant wedding, is that not flaunting or at least a little insensitive
I actually think this is where ayin hara comes in,
If you flaunt something at someone who is in pain over not having that thing, it can give you “ayin hara”
The pain of that person bears witness and the scales are balanced
It’s not definitive thing but I believe that’s the nature of it.
Don’t flaunt your stuff with people who are desperate for those things….just a lesson.NOYB
I hear your point you have a point but,
Let’s give an extreme example to make it more obvious.
Let’s say there’s a really poor town, or a really poor city and your a gvir, and you make a huge wedding in a really poor town. Would you not consider that flaunting.
If you have something and show it to the have nots without caring about their feelings there’s somewhere flaunting or insensitivity there. I have a better example but you get the pointHalevi
The frum are _not_ obsessed with gashmiyus?
They are. Deal with it. Rivers are blue the sky is blue. Reality existsThat was a whole lot of justification in one second. While I respect your oppinion and it holds a lot of water.
Two things can be true at the same time.
They _can_ be giving alot of ztedakah and flaunting their wealth in other people’s faces
They can be helping the yeshivos and making the little guys life harder because they are raising the bar.
Now I’m not a communist not everybody should be equal. But there is a time and place to….not give in to gluttony just because you can. Perhaps I don’t understand cuz I’m not there
And I heard the social hierarchy of the wealthy it’s its own rollercoaster of one-upmanship among the well to do…
But still even a rich guy can know what’s a normal amount of money to spend and what’s not. Most rich folk today was born with brainsHakatan. But it happened anyways. So it doesn’t matter what your beliefs are if it happened obviously god is smarter then you and he decided it was neccisary even if it didn’t fit the extreme box.
This is because people are disconnected from their true self and use materialism to fill the void..materialism. Perhaps is the one place they don’t have to conform. Where they can be free to express themselves as they see fit.
This is what happens when tyranny controls everything
People find other outlets.
And those outlets become imbalanced because they are already ungrounded from reality.
Materialism and excess materialism in my book means extreme emptiness.It’s not rational. Alot of the reasoning is spiritual. That’s not always “rational” if you want to put a pedestal on shutting down your thinking and fallowing blindly cuz that makes you more pios. Your only lying to yourself. And who knows when you are lying to yourself and hiding from yourself. God. So you can’t really trick the Devine. If you have questions you should ask. Them. If you have understanding. That’s great. You want to demonize understanding things lol.
Some people use the computer and don’t ask how it works cuz they don’t care. Some people care cuz it’s fascinating.
It makes life more interesting.
Does the computer stop working cus you understand how it works? Nope. Stop demonizing or adding rules to reality that don’t need to be there. Like demonizing understanding things. Your stretching meaning and rules to become tyrannical. And that is stupid. Dumb unhealthy and retarded. Be human. Your allowed to be normal human being.Coffee addict. First you have to have that relationship in order to have that level of trust.
And where does one get that relationship, by being authentic and true to self with the rules.
It has to balance each other.
The second the rules eat away at the self and become tyranny it will automatically come between the relationship you have with your creator. The two needs to be balanced. That’s why it’s imporant to differentiate truth from tyranny. Also understanding rules doesn’t contradict doing them. You can do them and then understand them.
Not sure why you would make up something like that just because someone has understanding. Rude muchRight Jew
That’s why we need to differentiate that we are in the process and it’s not in our control. Lol
That this system will not work our way
It will work within the framework of gods Devine way .
Gods wisdom is much higher then our wisdom. Which means what might look bad on the serface according to our close minded views are not always and will not always fallow the trajectory of Devine will. So everybody needs to calm down and carry on. Whatever will happen Is not in our control anyways.Querty the only rasha making alot of noise here is you. There’s no way your not ashamed of how out of the norm your acting. Maybe you simply lack control over your actions or feel justified cuz someone told you your justified. Stop appealing so much to authority. If you used your brains youd know quite clearly that your acting insane. But in the name of ideology your clearly think your “right” so you are not responsible for your actions. Wakeup.
User176
They point fingers at everybody else and call everybody “pick and choose”
When they pick and choose themselves.
Ignore them. They have no brainsSo, your talking about yourself qwerty?
The reason why I say this also is because the biblical text wasn’t given when the world was created it was given after years of people losing their way. Therefore it’s not to “serve God” alone and subvert the self but to _teach people how to live_
See the difference between tyranny/anger/control/hatred
And love/respect/care/consideration/justice/mercy and sometimes discipline.We are here to serve hashem or are we here to have a good life where we are connected and are happy. I think there’s a huge balance between blind obedience/slavery mentality/ and just being _human_
serving blindly and just shutting down all your own intellectual feelings just to serve a deity that “says so” means that you are living a very unbalanced and unhealthy lifestyle.
But, understanding that you are being taken care of and cared about by your creator despite being in this complicated world, is a different kind of relationship. .
It means that the rules that were given to us have a reason…and those reasons are wholesome and good for you.Happy new year what truth are you arguing? Your truth? Or the truth
You sound more like you want to force your way of thinking on me and when it doesn’t work it must mean I don’t want to seek “truth”
See your beliefs are only true if proven to be true not because that’s what you parrot your whole life. Lol
I so badly want the Torah to sync with respect to a persons naturally born _humanity_.
And it does very well, when read in context and lived, correctly.
Let’s differentiate truth from tyranny. Fact from fiction
Because at the base of all of this our happiness depends on if we live in alighnment with reality. Especially when I comes to the choices we make. Which will ripple affect throughout all of our lives.Qwerty let’s, differentiate your religion from your fanatism. Your beliefs can be carpamentalized to be their own stand alone religion. Stop taking things so literally
Querty. Every time you open your mouth your voice betrays the lack of depth the contradictions and the frankly stupid rhetoric you stand for. Before you prove who you really are to the abyss cuz that’s where your voice is echoing right now, I’d advise you to think, discern, understand and use real life _expriance_ and wisdom instead of knowledge talking points and sheeple speak. As the disconnect from reality you show everytime you speak is a slightly…..intrigueging.
The name calling. Somehow proves your right. But everybody can see the blatant contradictions in your speeches.
You might want to observe more instead of anylayze
You might want to listen more instead of read
You might want to form your own oppions about things instead of pulling things from authority figures. At the end of the day truth reveals itself by _being_ true not because someone says so. But because reality says so.And….one more thing. If the Torah _is_ truth then it has to be in alignment with truth. And all the extremism thinking needs to fall away cuz truth is truth. Not extrmism
Querty. Morality doesn’t deffrentiate whether someone believes them or not they react regardless of belief. So, I don’t “pick and choose” what I believe in. I just admire and understand reality on a much simpler less constrictive level then you. I don’t believe in squashing myself into a overly controlling box. I also accept that I am human and I’m not expected to be extreme, dogmatic (which are by nature unhealthy ideals) and to be a sheeple as that doesn’t lead me to make better choices or be more moral in real life..Actually in the name of confromity people by nature throw away their free will to fallow the crowd cuz of fear and fear isn’t freedom. Ive seen quite a few people quickly throw away lots of their character because the crowds pressure made them lose their bearings..
If you want to live that kind of lifestyle where instead of dialogue you scream at everybody and somehow thats what is helping the cause towards being the best version of yourself n then so be it. But from what I see there’s no freedom of thought allowed. No freedom of truth. It’s all….kind of controlling. Controlling is not healthy. Something that is not healthy is also not in alignment with truth. It’s the opposite of truthThere’s literally a reason for everything in the Torah and it was designed to create a wholesome environment within the self and also a wholesome framework to guide a person throughout his life. Tyranny on the other hand seeks to take wisdom and wholesomeness and questions and seeking and turn it into fear mongering and control. a person cannot be his true self in a tyrannical emvirmemt, which is a curious, hard worker that sometimes makes dumb mistakes. This hyperfocus on rules and perfection makes people lose touch with the very principles the book was supposed to and was desighned for.
Would you accept an abusive person into your life? That behaves in a controlling fashion? No you would not.
If you yourself would not allow others to be cruel or controlling to you the same is with our relationship with God. If God created us to despise and stay away from abuse why would He be abusive towards us and expect abusive things from us. I truly believe is that God wouldn’t because God is not abusive or controlling. And those that think he is…..are contradicting themselves by removing from their lives, friends or foe who’d treat them the same way.
Our relationship with life and how we interact and what we consider right and wrong and what we consider just or unjust, what we consider corrupt or not corrupt, in our day to day relationships, is the same and has to be the same with our relationship to the Devine. Because concepts don’t change, abuse doesn’t change just because the charachtor is bigger and more Devine. Relationships still have the same rules on the micro level to the macro level.
So the better question isn’t, we fallow God cuz he “says” so the better question is, it someone ever told me that would I agree with that way of thinking or would I consider that something I wouldnt invite into my life. If you can consider it wrong on the micro level it will also be wrong on the macro.
Our Creator is loving.He is kind. He cares about every one of us as His own. He is just. Not unjust. And it’s a shame that so many people create this false narrative and fear based thinking when it’s so untrue and comepletly contradicts what they would accept from anyone else in their livesSotah is very complex but the nuance is that it serves as a detterant to bad behavior..
The ritual itself is something that a person will remember when she may find herself in a situation that might end up with making choices she will regret. It keeps in the forefront of her mind to stay truthful to her spouse despite the circumstances. etc etc. Woman are very emotional, there’s no logic there. So in very high or intense emotional situations, it serves as a remembrance so she has something to remember and hold onto, to keep her from making a very bad decision….Slavery I can’t answer but from what I understand Jewish slaves were people that needed to pay debts. And it states clearly to treat your Jewish slaves properly, becuase a Jewish slave is your brethren and when you see someone you know in a degrading situation it’s easy to look down on them so the emphasis is, despite their ugly circumstances make sure you treat them properly.
These concepts are _very_ metaphysical, for the more real life answer to karbonos I would say bringing an ox, and the whole process of atonement and taking something you value after you did something wrong is a very healthy way to really internalize what you did wrong and to appreciate the impact your choices had on yourself and others. And as your bringing this animal that you value to the cohen your coming to terms with what you did so you can be a better person.
The process is healing for the soul. That’s more in line with human natureKarbanos are and served as a spiritual equalizer. Certain sins’ metaphysical impact on the persons entire being, requires a sacrifice of atonement to “pay” for those sins. Because the sacrifice itself will eqaulize the callateral damage the sin had on the person. This is not a physical payment but a spiritual one. If someone harmed someone by mistake or even on purpous those actions cause suffering not just in the victim but in the perpetror. It’s like life itself requires payment. Karbanos equalizes those sins and becomes the payment so that the person can be freed from the callateral damage of their choices.
Quewrty, let’s differentiate being human and then let’s differentiate what your saying. “Real Jews understand that”
So someone who asks questions and is curious if mind is not a real jew.
Someone who wants to understand and to know, is not a real jew….there is where I think your bordering on extreme dogmatic thinking. Which isn’t really healthy. Honestly that’s a little extreme and crazyFalse religion. Funny joke coming from you. Your religion and way of thinking is just as false