nevuah

Reb emes. You need to take the exacting morals that carry such weight for you, and round them with realistic living. Yes your right it’s not technically correct because of his beliefs but he’s just a comedian so it’s ok.
They…whoever they arent thinking that deep and or they don’t hold your strict opinions, therefore their world won’t look the way you want theirs to look. Right?
We need to differentiate these things because it’s important not to try to put so much weight on controlling the narrtive. Relax. Life is not. That. Serious. At all.
It’s all ganna be….ok. ok?

Our prayers and hearts are with you from all over the world

Seems it is we who need to change. And judging from their “bashing” it might be anger at the unforgivness we do not give anybody. Even ourselves.

Sorry ashreg didn’t see that you answered me. Again. Truth is only true if it passes the scrutiny of truth.
God says to be mindful of fallowing _moral code_ cuz there are great consequences in not doing so.
The rules are only by definition the truth because they _are_ true not because they are written in the book. Or any book.
The book codafies morality and other rules, not the other way around. That means it’s mirror of reality, not because it says so because it is.
Your coming from an authority perspective. It is written therefore it must be true
I’m coming from the opposite way, it mirrors reality by being true therefore it is true.
These are two different starting points.
The reason why it was given not at the creation of the world’s is because humanity needed a guide. Thus its not about authority but about guidance
Everything written there in is good sense to fallow.
The Torah is a mirror of reality. Exactly.
For example…. it says the sins of the father will be passed down 7 generations, this is not only because God will punish you but also because things are passed down geneticly and metaphysically for 7 generations sometimes 4.
The Torah codafies what reality already is. And also gives much more in depth guidance to those who do listen.
Also. It doesn’t say “listen” it says “hearken”
Which means something much deeper then listen. hearken is a word used for “you shall hearken to my words because they are good for you”
There is a huge difference between listen and hearken.
Everything written in the Torah still respects the will of the person. And uses moral guidence sense and wisdom to guide a person’s nature.
It does not force. It confirms.
Literally definitions without wisdom misses the intent behind the words.

Ok I can use another word: controlling/threatening/fear mongering. It’s unnecessary

Qwerty I said let’s make sure we are translating the rules _correctly_ if you want to call that pick and choose. Great. You can’t read then clearly, can you. Also if your going to accuse me of “pick and choose” you pick and choose what to take out of context to push your extreme dogmatic agenda. Control for you is how you operate. I don’t believe control comes from a Godly source. Fear/control/dogma/extremism
What does those things reproduce? Unhealthy fearful people
If the Torah was a guide for mankind don’t you think it would find the most operative way for someone, a human, to have robust health, emotionally/physically/ spiritually. Exactly. That means the rules need to be wholesome and align with how humans operate
Discipline/love/principles/understanding/authority/truth/wisdom/

Again ashreg things are only true if they _are_ true.
Lol
Anyone of authority can say anything is true and you’ll fallow it cuz authority says so, that’s dangerous ground your stepping in because your not willing to use critical thinking we are not blind followers. And we were not destined to be. The reason being is even in the inherint way the Torah is written in parable form, third person, so a person can read it and gain wisdom and understanding not because they are “afraid” and feel compelled because they realize the wisdom therein and understand its moral direction.
There’s a fine line between blind fallowing and understanding wisdom and good sense.
Also its revealed in the way that God is hidden, meaning that people are not born into some form of a strict coded mindset but kind of have to find God on their journey of life.
This shows that a person was given the freedom to do so and find the truth as they live.
Otherwise God would probably make himself very clear to everyone, and there would be no arguments at all

I definitely agree with what your saying
But let’s diffretiate “threats” with common sense and wise council, and consenquences of bad choices

There’s a huge difference.
Threats generally are used for control.
Consequences and warnings of consenquences are used to teach and help people learn and navigate the world
One is for cult/fear/indoctrination
And the other is for council/warning/and helpful guidance, sometimes neccisary warning.
One is love. One is control.
These are very different spectrums of reality
If you don’t grasp these principles properly, people can use these powerful tools to create a socioty that becomes a straightjacket of extremism, and dramatic fear mongering that is not only not helpful but also not biblical

Ashergg. The Torah is the truth because it actually mirrors the truth. Not because it was given at har sinia and holds authority. It’s not about authority but how it guides us through reality.
it passes the scrutiny test of fitting exactly what truth is. Let’s differentiate sheeple speak from reality. You can look at life and it will mirror the Torah exactly the two are a symbiotic mirror of the other.
The Torah is a guide for life that means it must mirror life exactly. And it does when read in context. God gave tools to humans to navigate life and use the Torah as tool. Not the other way around

If I play chess. I don’t get stuck in the Manuel. I use it as a reference to guide me through the game but the Manuel has to mirror the actual game or it won’t help me navigate life

If your asking the poor to change entire standards because they have a hold over society you have power too to change the standards. You as an individual and as a collective.
Nobody holds the power it’s in _your_ hands as well. Its in your courage and your faith and in your circumstances
If one party has become suffocating for the rest it’s up to the collective to stop playing the game
One person who breaks through the cloud of control will allow others to break through too. And once that control is broken there will be true freedom. Until then trust me the rich won’t listen anyways. It’s up to us. Not them

Honestly it’s akin to broken telephone and human nature.
Like passing down moms recipe

Whatever your choice is your like a deer in headlights the fear of sticking out is keeping you completely frozen in time.
I never said something like “poor” I said change the narrtive, I never said embarrass yourself I said “live within your means”
If the norm became a full orchastra and you got a guy with a piano, to save money. Or maybe another guy as well to make it look the part but cheaper. That’s not chocolates and shnapps. You can still look good but with less.
My goodness you don’t want to change do you. You don’t want to live within your means you want to be just like everybody else.
But you never will be
Or you will try and continue to suffer the terrible consequences of fallowing the crowd like a sheep. Your an individual with individual circumstances stop crying

Uncle Ben I hear you but everybody is entitled to their own opinion but the fascism and threats. Ok thanks

Chaim. I understand what your saying but we aren’t taking chocolate and shnapps ok? Maybe a happy medium between that and the other extreme….if you don’t want to change you’ll come up with any excuse why you can’t do it. But if you do want to find a way, that is in balance between norms and your own needs you will find a way. I never said “frumpy” or “shlemazel” I said “think outside the box”
Let me ask you this if the norm was to buy a 300 doller winter jacket and if you didn’t your child would be “resentful” and “hate you”
Would you conform to that crazy despite their feelings. No you would not because even when something is pushed as “normal” it can still become crazy.
You need to take the norms. Shove them out the window and become your _own_ person.
I never said live like a pauper. I said live within your means if it means finding a way to present it properly but within your own budget.
And yes they made weddings like that in dp camps cuz that’s all they had.
Right now you have limited funds. What are you going to do. Cry or do and live within the confines of what God gave you despite the stupidity and crazy that socioty is giving you

Also. You don’t just fallow because someone told you it’s the truth it has to _be_ truth and pass the scrutiny of truth

What was the Torah written for tho? To help us navigate life. So are you fallowing the Torah or people lol
And you still need to use discernment when listening to others to make sure what they say is in alignment with truth because otherwise your just appealing to authority and becoming a victim of that.
Fallowing blindly is not a virtue.
Faith is not fallowing authority. Lol you have it all wrong. Backwards.
Faith is fallowing God and trusting in God because you know his wisdom and choices for your life is better and wiser then yours

I think if society condones, dehumazing others. It doesn’t matter how normal society has made it. It is still wrong.
When it says ואהבת לרעך כמוך I think the Hebrew transcends the English translation as Hebrew is a transcendent language. It gets to the heart of the truth. More so then any other language. I think the real translation is more like, “treat your fellow, as if he is yourself”
How would you feel being treated this way. With such lack of humanity.
How would you feel being treated and having to litterly step on glass, societies impossible expectations in order to “earn” the right partner. Is this what God wants us to do to others. Treat others like they don’t have feelings arnt multidimensional and in the name of “shidduchim” any kind of dehuminzation goes.
I think this is total lack of humanity and total lack of faith.
And a total lack of decency and it’s far far from the truth
It says in torah, don’t go after your heart and your eyes: aka societies sufficating standards that have turned us into picture perfect factory products of one another instead of the unique human and imperfect people we are supposed to be.
We need to root out cruelty, and stop fallowing everything that we consider “normal” we have to take norms and instead do what is right despite the lashback despite how society will take it. Cuz a socioty that condones dehumaning people for the “greater good” still is….wrong.

User176
Saying it and saying it with such conviction might make it look like truth but it’s still not true

Chaim. You still have to have the courage despite the norms, and do what works for _you_
A hostess gift. You did your best. This is what you can afford. The other party will have to deal with it. Their “insulted” theill get over it.
Be caragous.
Be strong. Be faithful and true to yourself. Stop stepping on glass for this crazy mess that we are in. You are going to have to find the courage to break out of these crazy norms. The small thing to the big thing.
You can still give a buetifull hostess gift that costs less.
It doesn’t matter what the change is.
Choose to go against the grain anyways.
This suffocating gridlock is too much. Someone has to take a stand.
Let that be you. Let that be all of us. Say no. No more

Reb emes. I understand your point. But what about the damage to the store. Did the store people ask for those people to come in. It’s not the stores fault or responsibility….and again it’s all dependant on educating the youth properly. With proper strong moral compass and values you shouldn’t be so worried people will just change their colors so fast based off the actions of others. That just means our education system isn’t good. People don’t just throw off their upbringing because of some bad kids behaviour, unless, they hang out with them….or don’t like their own lifestyle in the first place

Ashergg that was wise mental gymnastics and a dose of cognitive dissonance. But I respect