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Thats not “embarrassing” nobody said “poor” “shlemazel”
Your out of touch with the possiblity of change and with reality. No offense. You want change act like an individual with an individual realityChaim….I hear you. But then you reap what you sow.
If you can’t live within the framework of what God gave you android you don’t have the strength to not conform
And make a beutifull event in a fancy shul, or heck even on a buetifull grounds like they did during covid, or doing something in the middle of that extreme and nowadays extreme. If your not willing to move even one inch in any direction, then stop crying you make your own bed.
I know countless of people who have changed the narrtive in thier lives of what is considered “normal” for this crazy society and yet thier wedding and event held more meaning because of its modesty, then any other wedding I ever was at. Stop crying if you want to be a sheep. Stop crying if you don’t want to live within the circumstances god gave you. And stop crying that it’s an “embarrassment” cuz you can make a gorgeous wedding litterly in a bar mitzvah hall or on a buetifull grounds like they did at covid and it can still look and be beutifull. My goodnessYou were talking about frummer, my bad I didn’t read that did I?
Frum people tend to be a little extremist in their view but it’s more self deprecating and harsh on themslevs then our worldly cruel. People can see that as not something they agree with or lauph at it because it’s taken too far, or too extreme, but I will say this, to contradict my above posts, that frommer people tend to be more down to earth, kind and generous, and not pulled down by the likes of materialism which makes them overall very good people.
I don’t necessarily think their views are so healthy overall as it can be taken a bit far, stretching meaning to be more harsh on themselves then neccisary but the best people are generally frummerThe question is, is this lashon hara, if it is that applies to rabbanim also
I’m not talking about the humble folk but since we’ve become very materialistic and that’s the sum total of who we are….this is perhaps why we have become very resented.
“Elitists are viewed negatively because their behavior marginalizes others, undermines the achievements of peers, and creates exclusive social circles that reinforce hierarchical divides. This attitude is often described as “childlike arrogance,” where individuals use status symbols or intellectual superiority to establish dominance and make others feel inferior, rather than fostering collaboration or inclusivity.
The specific negative character traits associated with elitism include:
Arrogance and Superiority: A belief that one is smarter, richer, or more talented than others, leading to a dismissive attitude toward those who do not meet their stringent standards of “excellence.”
Lack of Empathy: A disregard for the struggles of others, often trivializing challenges by assuming that if the elitist could overcome obstacles, everyone else should be able to as well.
Exclusivity and Gatekeeping: The creation of closed groups that exclude those not deemed worthy, denying them access to professional networks, social opportunities, or basic respect”Because elites are always resented by society.
In my humble opinion, can we stop using “assur” and “mutter”
Seems to be everyone has a different opinion on what is assur and mutter and some people are using that as a threat. Stop dramatizing everything.
Instead maybe say= It lacks respectability and it is vain. Jumping to extremism and control is so fascist. Chill outIn my humble opinion, can we stop using “assume” and “mutter”
Seems to be everyone has a different option on what is assur and mutter and some people are using that as a threat. Stop dramatizing everything.
Instead maybe say,
It lacks respectability and it is vain. Jumping to extremism and control is so fascist. Chill outWhat happens is that for some people the rules become so suffocating they become rebellious. And because there is no real life consequences behind them, like when someone does something morally wrong, people lose touch with caring.
It’s a catch 22*fuel=impossible rules/conformity that doesn’t fallow logic
Philosepher this is what happens when the focus is conformity and not morality. When you don’t teach morals and right and wrong and instead turn to suffocating people by impossible fuels eventually they lose touch with those rules and do whatever they want.
Principles, not rules need to be the name of the gameThis is also why we need to focus on faith, and transcend these norms by focusing on God. because what humans define us as, what they decide for us who we are, how they look only at how we present ourselves, make us walk all over eggshells to fit in, scorn us and dehumanize us because they control the narrative, we need to find the inner strength to focus on something bigger then that. Something that transcends all that. Something that is above that. And find strength in that despite the suffocating, “norms”
God is bigger then these norms, having faith, transcends these norms, courage asks us to face these norms and live a different way. A better way.
Instead of getting straighth or being destroyed by the crowd focus on something biggerChaim87 I understand you and something tells me this impossible suffocating conformity has something to do with it. So much so people feel embarrassed to live with their means. It feels unfair.
But being different, doing the right thing. _never_ felt easy. It takes lots of courage.
But isn’t courage worth it? That you do what works for you despite what the naysayers say, so that you can have true freedom?First of all, ya’all can start with yourselves.
Lol
Don’t wait for other people to change their spots. Start living your own life working within your own circumstances
.if you can only afford a shul for the wedding hall, start making wedding halls in a fancy shul. _you_ need to have the courage
And one person that makes the step will give space for others to do so.
It’s not up to us to change others. They will never change..but we can do something.
Stop conforming. Stop paying the bill. Stop paying the price.
The choice is yours not theirsI’m not sure who brought the holocaust into this. But they completely missed the point. Nobody was talking about the holocaust.
What I was trying to say is that God, who created the heavens and the earth chooses people, places, and things, that don’t always fits into the ideal, human ideals that we convince ourselves makes us whole. God uses them,.the imperfect.persom for the good of his purposes, that person you scorn that wears the outfit you don’t approve of, God is prob closer to them because they have authenticity your too afraid to embody. That imperfect individual in high school who you thought was a loser, is now the head of this and that situation because God saw within that person the potential you as a very fallable arrogant human, did not.
God sees the inner strengths of people, not just how well they perform, how much they lie to society about who they are.
But whether they embody the character traits necessary to build the tower that needs building. To fullfil the role that needs fulfilling.
Those people, places circumstances will never fit into your impossible box because your box only allows those who are inauthentic in. Those who play the part. Who look the part..say all the right things.
God does not use ._your_ ideal circumstances to fullfil his agenda because inauthenticity does not fill his purposes.
So when you look at Zionism and you say how “bad” it must be.
Your looking at God use things you disagree with, I’m your limited arrogant perspective, to push His agenda.
Cuz His way is not your way.
Your way is limited. His way is much better and more real then your way.It’s called dehumanizing others. And I’ve seen this behavior time and time again.
Means there’s some sort of rot in our bones or arragence or lack of humanity.
Not sure whichWhen I said “bad” I meant. Not in “alignment” with your belief system
There’s a huge differenceYou can just tell it, directly, I’m sorry but I didn’t ask for that.
Or I’m sorry what? Why are you interfering.
I call out my AI all the timeImperfect circumstances.
Things that don’t fit the human ideal which shows that humans, are fallable. And God doesn’t expect perfection from us.
Nor does his works on earth fit into the human control system of how things work. Because gods way is bigger then our way. Wiser then our way. And he sees the value in all humans despite their failingsHakatan. God uses imperfect people
DifferenceThere are horrible consequences in a society that has lost every vestige of its humanity.
When things become so overwhelmed with wealth, everyone gets squashed in this box of conformity.
Everything becomes about presentation and not depth of character.
It’s just rot. We are rotting from inside outChaim your overstepping a smidge. You have no right whatsoever to tell someone else what to do. But you can have a negative opinion about it, because you don’t agree with their choices they are making Theres a difference…I think at least lol.
It is morally corrupt behavior to be gluttonous,
It’s morally corrupt to flaunt wealth. The reason everyone hates it is because it’s being thrown in everyones faces and on top of that treated as trash for not living up to the “impossible” standards. It’s just rot. In the bones.
Only the wealthy get married, or at this point people only marry you if you have money….it’s just, there’s no humanity left.
It creates a hiarchy that eats at the soul. It affects society and how people relate to each other.
It leads to snobbery and terrible persecution towards others that don’t measure up.He’s asking here because we are also real life people, but there happens to be a screen between us.
Maybe it’s convenience
Maybe it’s other things..
That’s not. Your business.4 things
When you brought up the holocaust. That’s when you missed the point
I debate a lot all over the internet ok? Not just here
I debate abortion
I debate feminism
People go crazy.
You know what happens every time you say “abortion is wrong?”
“But what about the 1% that this and this happened to”
And they’ll make 1 percent so dramatic, and push you against the wall to answer them, and tell me I’m a terrible person that I don’t “care” about people suffering.
You know what I call that tho?
Missing the point…
There is a pattern among brainwashed people
They can’t see sense.
They don’t want to.
That’s ok. Reality exists and continues to exist despite your beliefs.Cheskib, we _should_ do that. People should live within their means. Imagine how much.money and less stress people will have.
Dovid bt. Not everything your “told” is correct.
I think people who flaunt their wealth lack _morals_
And morals are gods law, God holds everyone accountable.Qwerty none of your refutations (insults included) I agree with..just because you say something doesnt mean someone has to agree
Qwerty you have to judge content by whether you agree or not. Not if that content toes the line of some ideology.
Hakatan you might be stretching what the Torah requires. Zionism is a belief system that has nothing to do with Torah. Lol
Coffee addict. Not sure how that’s a contradiction….don’t get it.
And qwerty what did I say that didn’t make sense.
Do you have understanding of the word “concepts”
Tell me one thing I said that didn’t make sense
I think when you say the word gibberish it’s because it hurts you that I do make sense lolNOYB
Your right and also wrong
Let’s give an example to reiterate when it can be flaunting wealth and see if that can apply to lesser examples today
If I was very wealthy and I came to a really really poor town or neighborhood and I made an extravagant wedding, is that not flaunting or at least a little insensitive
I actually think this is where ayin hara comes in,
If you flaunt something at someone who is in pain over not having that thing, it can give you “ayin hara”
The pain of that person bears witness and the scales are balanced
It’s not definitive thing but I believe that’s the nature of it.
Don’t flaunt your stuff with people who are desperate for those things….just a lesson.NOYB
I hear your point you have a point but,
Let’s give an extreme example to make it more obvious.
Let’s say there’s a really poor town, or a really poor city and your a gvir, and you make a huge wedding in a really poor town. Would you not consider that flaunting.
If you have something and show it to the have nots without caring about their feelings there’s somewhere flaunting or insensitivity there. I have a better example but you get the pointHalevi
The frum are _not_ obsessed with gashmiyus?
They are. Deal with it. Rivers are blue the sky is blue. Reality existsThat was a whole lot of justification in one second. While I respect your oppinion and it holds a lot of water.
Two things can be true at the same time.
They _can_ be giving alot of ztedakah and flaunting their wealth in other people’s faces
They can be helping the yeshivos and making the little guys life harder because they are raising the bar.
Now I’m not a communist not everybody should be equal. But there is a time and place to….not give in to gluttony just because you can. Perhaps I don’t understand cuz I’m not there
And I heard the social hierarchy of the wealthy it’s its own rollercoaster of one-upmanship among the well to do…
But still even a rich guy can know what’s a normal amount of money to spend and what’s not. Most rich folk today was born with brainsHakatan. But it happened anyways. So it doesn’t matter what your beliefs are if it happened obviously god is smarter then you and he decided it was neccisary even if it didn’t fit the extreme box.
This is because people are disconnected from their true self and use materialism to fill the void..materialism. Perhaps is the one place they don’t have to conform. Where they can be free to express themselves as they see fit.
This is what happens when tyranny controls everything
People find other outlets.
And those outlets become imbalanced because they are already ungrounded from reality.
Materialism and excess materialism in my book means extreme emptiness.It’s not rational. Alot of the reasoning is spiritual. That’s not always “rational” if you want to put a pedestal on shutting down your thinking and fallowing blindly cuz that makes you more pios. Your only lying to yourself. And who knows when you are lying to yourself and hiding from yourself. God. So you can’t really trick the Devine. If you have questions you should ask. Them. If you have understanding. That’s great. You want to demonize understanding things lol.
Some people use the computer and don’t ask how it works cuz they don’t care. Some people care cuz it’s fascinating.
It makes life more interesting.
Does the computer stop working cus you understand how it works? Nope. Stop demonizing or adding rules to reality that don’t need to be there. Like demonizing understanding things. Your stretching meaning and rules to become tyrannical. And that is stupid. Dumb unhealthy and retarded. Be human. Your allowed to be normal human being.Coffee addict. First you have to have that relationship in order to have that level of trust.
And where does one get that relationship, by being authentic and true to self with the rules.
It has to balance each other.
The second the rules eat away at the self and become tyranny it will automatically come between the relationship you have with your creator. The two needs to be balanced. That’s why it’s imporant to differentiate truth from tyranny. Also understanding rules doesn’t contradict doing them. You can do them and then understand them.
Not sure why you would make up something like that just because someone has understanding. Rude muchRight Jew
That’s why we need to differentiate that we are in the process and it’s not in our control. Lol
That this system will not work our way
It will work within the framework of gods Devine way .
Gods wisdom is much higher then our wisdom. Which means what might look bad on the serface according to our close minded views are not always and will not always fallow the trajectory of Devine will. So everybody needs to calm down and carry on. Whatever will happen Is not in our control anyways.Querty the only rasha making alot of noise here is you. There’s no way your not ashamed of how out of the norm your acting. Maybe you simply lack control over your actions or feel justified cuz someone told you your justified. Stop appealing so much to authority. If you used your brains youd know quite clearly that your acting insane. But in the name of ideology your clearly think your “right” so you are not responsible for your actions. Wakeup.
User176
They point fingers at everybody else and call everybody “pick and choose”
When they pick and choose themselves.
Ignore them. They have no brains