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Hmm. He can’t mean that we don’t visit har habayis, since that is assur.
He can’t mean that we don’t visit the kosel, since we do, and that is in fact part of his moshol.
He can’t mean that we let the Waqf destroy archeological evidence, since his moshol is that we are too busy with the box. Besides, what mitzva is there to have archeological evidence?
He must mean that we don’t throw rocks from har habayis at people davening.
For the record, I still don’t agree with DY though.
PBA!!?!?!!!… The cuts affect the Chareidim disproportionately because they make themselves poor disproportionately!
I refer to the per-child benefits, v’duk.
I agree that that is reprehensible, but it would be reprehensible to make these kinds of cuts if they didn’t affect charedim and arabs disproportionately.
um, what?
The Republican cuts to welfare programs are indeed targeted to have the worst impact on minorities. Only 34% of SNAP participants are white.
Nobody intends to davka target poor minorities to the exclusion of poor whites. Cutting SNAP across the board is far different than cutting per child benefits because only chareidim and arabs have lots of kids.
If you must, the example would be if someone proposed to cut SNAP davka in Harlem.
thumb:
You are referring to Congregation Chofetz Chaim on 69th avenue in Forest Hills? That is a shul, I am not aware they have more than the regular shul functions there.
I completely challenge that; I know many people who have become fully observant in Modern Orthodox communities.
Of course, I hope I didn’t imply that couldn’t happen. I was merely suggesting that if they moved to a community where their current way of living is acceptable, there is a strong likelihood that they will settle into it permanently.
So that the obvious suggestion for a couple like them is the Upper West Side, where many orthodox people eat kosher style outside the house and don’t cover their hair, etc. But if they move to the UWS, they will not be in a community where people are striving to move beyond that.
That is why I suggested a community like Pelham Pkwy, which as you note, is Modern Orthodox, but has more of an out of town feel such that it is both accepting and growing.
I’m sorry that happened to you.
Lapid’s cuts affect everyone, not just Charedim.
You are being evasive.
Cuts to the child benefit affect chareidim and arabs far disproportionately, and that is what they are sold as doing.
And there are indeed Republican pols in America who are blaming specific ethnic groups for being poor.
Blaming people for being poor (right or wrong) is different than de-funding welfare in a way that specifically targets minority groups.
I think you will have a hard time finding that in NY.
Some communities are more modern, and will not be judgmental of your not fully keeping halacha yet, but you will also not find the growth you are looking for in terms of that wanting to grow in keeping halacha.
Other communities will provide that growth, but with the judgment.
I’m recommending Pelham Parkway, for the win. Google for info on the shuls there, and ask for info.
I changed my mind. I agree with Torah completely.
I’m guessing part of the question is that the people don’t actually know they’ll get divorced.
Like, I assume you aren’t asking that you’ll have the sofer standing by at the chuppah, and have eidi gerushin be another kibbud.
I’m the crotchety old man.
It’s easier to believe that he copied O. Henry than to believe that none of his editorial staff read The Gift of the Magi.
lolwut
I don’t see the relevance.
Gavra:
Yes. I think the fact that they needed to be lobbied for by chareidim only makes it worse. If a govt is providing welfare, how could it possibly not account for the number of children in a household?
Something that irrational is almost per se discrimination. And when it is effected against two hated minorities, yeah, that’s wrong.
I’m not arguing in favor of incentivizing having kids (which most societies say they want to do). I’m arguing that the state does take an active interest in providing a safety net for people and kids are people. For them to not account for the kids is bizarre and seeming proof of discrimination.
And I’m not arguing what sort of welfare the torah would want. I’m saying that in the context of providing welfare, the Torah and anyone would certainly not want discrimination against minorities.
Charedim in America overwhelmingly vote for politicians who would do the same thing to the American social safety net that Lapid is trying to do to that of Israel — with the support of rabbinic leaders.
And if we were doing so in a way that specifically targeted groups we didn’t like, that would be just as problematic.
If an American politician would run on a campaign of defunding the African American community, and would propose welfare cuts for “people who live in Harlem”, I can well assure you that I would not vote for that politician.
One of the kidsspeak books has a story where the kid has a calculator but no batteries, and the father has a pen but no ink, and each sells the gesheft to buy the thing the other needs.
The plot is thus identical to the O henry story where the girl has hair but no combs or something like that, etc.
The thing is though, that it really isn’t such a strange thing to happen anyway. So I’m a tad skeptical, but I ain’t ready to decide everything is made up betting on that.
Gavra: Certainly there is no inherent right to subsidies in the abstract. But there is an inherent right in a democracy to be treated fairly by the majority.
And when the majority goes against its usual values specifically to target a disliked minority, that is unfair.
Here, the usual value is wanting to make a tax and welfare system that takes into account the needs of the payers and recipients. Children obviously have needs, and large families obviously have more needs than small ones. But they specifically ignore that because they dislike the chareidim. I think that’s unfair.
I was gonna disagree with the OP. But I changed my mind. I agree with OP.
OP is working; he should not be faulted for not being able to earn enough. And while the child subsidies were always a gift, I think they are being wrongfully taken away, because of the following:
Government tax and welfare policy is generally based on capacity and need, balanced by availability of social resources. A child subsidy is very good policy, since it targets need very accurately. Of course, it is balanced by the availability of social resources, as AviK points out.
But this was sold to the country as a way of getting at the chareidim and arabs, since they are the ones who have large families. This wasn’t done out of careful consideration of needs and resources–it was done out of not caring about the “other” (or really out of wanting to hurt the “other”).
The charge that chareidim are the parties who forced these subsidies actually proves the point. Society shouldn’t have to be forced to realize that large families have more need than small families with the same income.
Even if you think the chareidi kollel system is wrong or untenable, and that there shouldn’t be kollel payments or army exemptions, that really shouldn’t affect how you think about child subsidies.
Stuck in yehupitz (east of hotzen plotz) for over five hours
Isn’t that some sort of potato kugel with meat in it? Sounds good. But I usually am full after only like 3 hours of eating.
I don’t like to be patronized.
I made up a similar story about Jesus himself.
JF: Tell your husband he means spousal immunity. Spousal privilege refers to where it is about confidential communications between the spouses.
That’s the most comfortable way. Because then he’ll never ask you to wear them again.
touche
Don’t be ridiculous. Leo Frank also made us look bad according to you.
If you just mean that we look bad as a result you are correct. But if you think that equates to blame, I do not agree.
The 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe faced charges in Russia.
Whether or not Wendy is 100% guilty cannot be known by us for sure. What we can be sure of is that she made us all look bad.
You must be kidding. How could she have made us look bad if she was not guilty?
I don’t know who taught you such an absurd notion of fault.
I don’t recall R’ Shmuel Kamenetsky ever pleading guilty to a case in which he was innocent.
Seriously? First recall the case where he was facing a long prison sentence if he didn’t. Then we’ll discuss it.
Sam:
I don’t like hypotheticals. But if we must: Suppose also that said defendant had good reasons for thinking there was anti-semitism, such as referencing another similar frum person’s case to her, and setting the trial for rosh hashana. And suppose that her people had a 2 thousand year history of anti-semitic prosecution and persecution.
We didn’t make this anti-semitic prosecution stuff out of thin air you know. Maybe we’re sometimes wrong, but I’m betting there’s even more times that we don’t know the extent of the anti-semitism.
Read the comments on any story about jews. They don’t like us out there.
The easiest way is to let your kids play with them and wear them for a few days.
The hardest way is to ask your husband to wear them for a few days.
The worst way is to let your younger sister to wear them for a few days. (try getting them back)
The hippyest way is to wrap them in seaweed and soak them in rainwater.
The Jappyest way is to ask your live in to do the hippyest way.
Ok, I’ll give a serious response.
The best way is to ask your au-pair or live in to wear them for a couple days.
I don’t think we should discuss specifics of her case.
She pled guilty, did her sentence. Let sleeping dogs lie.
plenty of people take a guilty plea if they are not guilty. The prosecution can threaten all kinds of things that may make pleading guilty seem like the easier option. our justice system is neither fair nor efficient.
This is very true. See every article written about the justice system in the past 100 years.
And maybe the community will learn crying anti-Semitism instead of working with the justice system (whether or not she was guilty) is not a good way to get leniency in this country.
I’m not totally sure I get where you’re going with this.
Is your hope that we will learn the correctly effective methods of obtaining leniency? So that we will get leniency?
Is your hope that we won’t falsely see the justice system as anti-semitic, because it is bad for our integration into society?
Is your hope that we will pretend that things are not anti-semitism when they really are, so that people will like us more?
Please clarify.
For the record, and a preemptive response, giving a harsh sentence to someone for calling a prosecution anti-semitic is kind of troubling to me. It certainly doesn’t help the community heal from a couple thou years of anti-semitic justice system.
About the only thing I can think of in their zechus is that if you are attacked by a mugger while wearing them, they make a good weapon.
Well, yes. But not quite as good as a real stiletto.
Also, thanks.
Oops, sorry. I thought you were telling the famous joke about pink elephant shoes.
How do you kill a pink elephant shoe?
With a pink elephant shoe gun.
How do you kill a pink elephant?
Put it on 4 inch stilletos.
I thought it was funny that they didn’t make explicit the obvious distinction between telling the teachers “this kid is a terrible troublemaker”, and, “this kid’s mother is sick”.
They need to be broken in? So that’s what the problem is. I’ve been wearing mine for years and they still hurt. I’ll just try breaking them in now.
“Elect” a rabbi?
Can a parent have unconditional love for a child they raise for a year or two?
Yes, I do think so. It is a natural instinct, because they are part of you.
WIY: Oh.
A tarantula!
That would eat them up. Then you can call it Tarantula Devorah or something.
What is amazing is that he doubled down on the motzi shem ra after I personally offered a first hand recounting of a statement that contradicted him. Is he accusing me of being a liar? Unlike just about everyone else here, I post under my real name, and would suffer consequences not just in Heaven but in Olam Ha-Zeh were I to flood the internet with lies.
This isn’t about you.
Oh, things, you know.
What is wrong with sanctioning the presence of gay soldiers in the army? What would you have gay people do, exactly? Just commit suicide because they have no right to exist?
Agreed.
My opinion on this is that if the military people say it is important for morale or unit cohesion to exclude them, then fine. But there is no inherent reason to exclude them besides.
This is indisputably true. Particularly sometimes you see posters who in their post have already concluded their conclusion. These posters should be flogged and banned.
And I don’t want to even talk about it.
truth: No idea what you’re talking about. I think you’ve been trying to drum something up about this for a while though. To be the real truthsharer here, I don’t really care.
Ok, I read that again. I think you are correct, that I shouldn’t read Lopatin’s response in itself to be an adoption of his ideas.
But I still that that continuing to hold him forth as their star student shows they accept the ideas as legitimate regardless of if they personally believe them. So I guess I should say that Weiss and Lopatin are mesupek if torah is min hashamayim.
The Farber incident. See cross-currents, and the YCT blogs.
Google “Farber Cross-currents”, and then google around for the responses.
unconditional love
I don’t believe it. A teacher cannot have unconditional love for a student that they teach for a year or two.