Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
>>>When have you ever distinguished between Satmar and the modern day NK?
This question wasn’t directed at me but I’ll answer. While I’m strongly opposed to the more extreme anti-Zionist groups I definitely do distinguish between (1)Brisk (2)Satmar (3) The NK. With Brisk it’s an haskafa I don’t agree with but I have no issue with them having it (as long as they aren’t obsessed with the topic-but that would be true about opposition to any group, nothing to do with Zionism per ser) With Satmar I do have issue with some of what they say and do but it remains within the realm of an haskafa I disagree with. (3)The current NK are absolute rashoyim
The above said, one thing is indisputable, The NK is an outgrowth of opposition to Zionism. So are many of the secular vitriolically anti Torah and anti-Zionist secular Jewish American groups . If you go with the anti-Zionist ideology which ascribes quilt to all Zionists even for the actions of people who are long dead, then all anti-Zionists are responsible for those groups too. Particularly the NK.
>>>Simcha, the chazon ish and others explained that when a girl is forced – not voluntarily – to leave the reshus of her husband or father
I don’t understand that explanation. With what is she in anyone else’s reshus by doing some civilian position volunteer work? Sheurus Lumi girl sleep at home, choose where to volunteer, and technically aren’t really forced to sign up to begin these days. How is that being in someone elses’s rshus?
I do not support sherut leumi but I’ve never heard an intelligent explanation of why it is so terrible other than have emunas chachomim , the gedloim said it is .wrong. WHY it is so wrong and so inherently different from say jury duty is something I do not understand. (this is assuming there is an actual pressing need for national service. Not the government insisting on it to show who is the boss,, which my have been the case in the early days of the state of Israel)
>>>am curious re the seven words quote from r ch shm ?
I’m not going to say it on an online forum because I know it will misused afterwards. All I will say is that it was a very good quote illustrating both what is wrong with not following the Chazon Ish’s haskafa that the more extreme Zionists are fighting the wrong battle today and what motivates them to continue doing so
>>>RShach had actually a very negative view of Peres.
He even refused to meet him during the eighties and nineties.
As opposed to Rabin who did agree to meet.I highly doubt Rav Schach ever met Yitzchok Rabin who was a lot more secular and had a less interaction with the frum world than Shimon Peres.
Rav Schach’s view of Shimon Peres in the 1990s does not detract from the hakaras hatov felt to him in the 1970s. Or any subsequent time either. If there were a secular politician today who strongly championed the cause of not drafting Yeshiva bochurim, few people would feel hakoras hatov to him, the kanoim would hate him anyway. Back then things were different. Even members of the American moetzes went to to Moshe Dayan to personally thank him for having fought that Yeshiva bochurim should not be drafted
>>>rav shach received a lot of criticism from brisk for changing the yeshiva world’s policy
I’m not going to post it here but the seven words from gemora (a unrelated and non haskafa sugya ) that Rav Chaim Shumelvitz quoted in response after being told that he is being criticized in Brisk for not going along with their view on the state of Israel is something you should really know if you are concerned about that criticism
>>>What Rav shachs understanding of the differences were is beyond my understanding; i have emunas chachamim that he saw a significant change which permitted joining the government.
It is inaccurate to ascribe the change exclusively to Rav Schach. (see below) It was the unanimous decision of the Moetzes to join Begin’s coalition in 1977. And due to change in status quo they were making they asked the American Moetzes for outside approval first. Which was quickly give to them. The reason for the change was simple. They realized that they were dealing with a different situation. It shouldn’t be hard to find a Jewish Observer online from that period that will explain it to you further.
According to Menachem Porush, Rav Schach was actually from the more resistant members of the Moetzes to joining Begin’s coalition. He insisted he would only do so if there was no chance of Shimon Peres making a coalition anyway. Because Shimon Peres had consistently opposed drfting Yeshiva Bochurim over the years and Rav Schach felt the Charieidi world owed him hakoras hatov
It’s also inaccurate to claim that the Charidie world did not take cabinet position until recently. Reb Itche Meri Levin was the minister of social welfare in 1948-1949.
>>>Satmar isn’t responsible for every idiot who quotes them wrongfully. Acknowledging it itself is an issue; they’re not a PR firm. Agudah doesn’t speak out when it’s cast wrongfully in the media either
You can be sure that if some very high profile politician misrepresented the Agudah position in a public policy speech they would correct him. And Audah isn’t nearly as aggressive as Satmar when it comes to informing the non-Jewish public about what their opinions on issues relating to Israel iare.
>>>The rabbonim who backed away from the major israel rally a few months ago also said that demanding things from America is not the way we behave in galus.
That isn’t correct. Some felt that the gathering itself was not a place for their followers to be. No one had issues with asking for American support for Israel in time of war. And again Satmar is way more aggressive than Agudah when it comes to public demonstrations and making demands from politicians
>>>“Ubiq, do you think the chachamim would have fought the romans when they went to meet them? ”
This question wasn’t addressed to me but it seems very clearly that they would have . Chazal say that when Rav Yochonan Ben Zakai saw that those who were supposed to fighting in defense were cooking straw in boiling water for nourishment he said “could they possibly win over the soldiers of Titus ?” He therefore went to meet Vespasian. It is pretty clear that he was not opposed to their fighting per se . It was he realized it was a lost cause any way he tried to get the best deal possible.
On another note the resoyim from the Neturei Karta frequently misuse that Gemora as a justification for their being such malshinim, and mischaber and msichazek rotzchim of klal Yisroel. It is a nonsense comparison. Rav Yochonan Ben Zakai did not run a PR campaign for Titus and Vespasian, he did not enable or condone them in any way whatsoever, He basically met Vespasian under surrender terms and tried to get whatever he could for klal yisroel. The Neturey Karta for all the damage they do never ask for anything on behalf of Klal Yiroel. It’s all about their own money, kovod and achzrorius
>>>In the okd yishuv of yerushalayim, say during the time of rav shmuel salant, people went to the kosel unfettered.
That is only somewhat true. The site was under control of the Wakf who did not allow Jews to do anything that implied they had ownership . In 1840, way before the Zionists came around they already forbade the Jews who wanted to do so from paving right in front of the Kosel. There are other reports in Jewish newspapers written before the Zionists of Jews being beaten and harassed on their way to or at the kosel. The major fight in 1911 over whether Jews can bring chairs when they daven at the kosel was not a fight with or because of any Zionist groups.
>>>Manufacturing was able to support more jobs in tel Aviv and would enable more German jews to come. Kibbutzim were ideological goal but didn’t create enough productive jobs, limiting lives saved.
In order to create manufacturing jobs you need to have the raw materials, a saleable product and trading partners. None of them were existent in abundance in Palestine. The kibbitzim existed for the socialist purposes of providing employment to anyone who wanted to work. In that regard they were a success at that point in time. Coming from Russia and Poland with it’s mass Jewish unemployment rate their ideal of providing everyone with jobs even if there may be better economic models to choose from made sense, Many early Zionist ideals (which are widely criticized by anti-Zionists with zero effort to understand their point of view or motives ) make sense to people who are coming from their background and life experience
It’s possible the Satmar Rebbe put anti-zionists ads in The New York Times and it is possible that Rav Avigdor Miller wrote them but there is no way either of them would have supported some of what goes.
Hertz Frankel, the one who organized the Satmar protests for the Satmar Rebbe wrote an article Misphca magazine saying that the Satmar Rebbe would have opposed some of the current Satmar methods of protesting. Three points he made that I remember were that the Satmar Rebbe only supported public protests in front of non-Jews if (1)there was a specific issue that was being demanded of the Zionists. He did not make general protests or put general ads to educate non-Jews about Satmar haskafa and beliefs (2)He was not dismissive of criticism from other groups about those type of ads and protests . He did not like making public protests if no one other than he and others in the Satmar orbit felt they were correct (3)questions like should a protest be public pr private were things he put major thought into. He never ran to lash out in public.
Rav Avigdor Miller was no frothing at the mouth anti-Zionist . I’ve heard many answers from him to questions about the state of Israel. He never gave the type of answers you would get in Satmar. Yes, he was opposed to Zionism. but similar to the way most Yeshivish rabbonim are
>>>I heard from a talmid that Rav Hutner didn’t visit the kosel because he agreed with the satmar rov on it being a problem of not being mechazek the reshoim.
None of his other Talmidim seem to have heard or believe that . They all daven by the kosel . It is inconceivable that someone like Rav Ahron Schechter would have made a public preannounced tefila asifah by the kosel had Rav Hutner opposed going there
Perhaps you are right that he didn’t “visit” the kosel as you put it. He went there to daven.
It’s nice to see you consider Rav Hutner to be deah. Hie had a lot more of a personal connection to and learned a lot more from Rav Kook than the Satmar Rebbe
>>>The yatzer hora for apikorsus, however, is very strong, and we are told by many tzadikim that it will be an almost insurmountable challenge באחרית הימים.
From the many people I know (of) who went OTD in the past twenty years not a single one of them became a Zionist. If anything some of them became virulently anti-Zionist. As in the league of Hamas and the Neturey Karta.
Another major issue I have with the anti-Zionists is that as the Chazon Ish said (in a different context about them) they are fighting the wrong battle. There are people from my former world who I STILL tremendously respect and consider to be Talmidey Chachomim and Yorey Shmoyim. Even so I also think they would accomplish a lot more and have a lot more positive influence if they were not so obsessed with Zionism, people who are dead for decades and things that happened more than half a century ago and started living in the present reality instead.
>>>Smerel, it’s the simple chain of events. They only assembled an army after haman was defeated and mordechai was made viceroy
Again you are not answering the question. You are assuming that had the gezora not been botel they would not have made an effort at self defense. To the extent that you believe it proves that you shouldn’t. Based on what? Of course the sequence of events was that way. Trying to fight is never first step. Particularly when the other side is a lot stronger than you and almost certainly going to win.
Chazal say the parsah of Yaakov and Esav in V’Yislach is to teach us that preparing for milchoma is also a way to deal with those who threaten us. Do you think Torah haskafa is otherwise? Based on what?
You should however teach some of your pacifist haskafa to some of your antizionist friends. As above their endless seeking out confrontation and fights is what caused my disillusionment with that movement and it’s beliefs . The Zionists for their part don’t act nearly as standoffish towards their enemies
>>>Smerel – that was AFTER the gezerah min hashomayim was batul and they were given permission to fight
What is this assumption based on? Of course you don’t look first to fight you try the other methods first but had the gezorah not been botel why do you assume they would not have fought back? Chazal say the parsah of Yaakov and Esav in V’Yislach is to teach us that preparing for milchoma is also a way to deal with those who threaten us. Do you think Torah haskafa is otherwise? Based on what?
>>but as you can see clearly from the megillah, organizing an army for defense was NOT the method the Jews took nor would it have worked.
You see the exact oppisite from the Megilah! They did organize an army! As the posuk says
נִקְהֲל֨וּ הַיְּהוּדִ֜ים בְּעָרֵיהֶ֗ם בְּכׇל־מְדִינוֹת֙ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵר֔וֹשׁ לִשְׁלֹ֣חַ יָ֔ד
בִּמְבַקְשֵׁ֖י רָֽעָתָ֑ם It was not the first line of defense but they certainly did do so when they were able to. As Chazal say the parsha of Yaakov and Esav in V’Yislach is meant to be a lesson for doros that we use three methods tefilah, doron and milchoma when dealing with their threats.>>>There is also no concept of a “homeland” in the Torah. That is zionist brainwashing;
As a random example ומפני חטאנו גלינו מארצנו is Zionist brainwashing? If you want to argue that in there is no reasons to return to Eretz Yisroel while golus continues that is one thing. Denying the importance of Eretz Yisroel in Judaism is another one of the krumer haskofas the extreme antizionists push.
Gedoley Torah like the Netziv did not support the Chovevy Tzion movement as a result of zionist brainwashing;
>>>He had hakaras hatov for having a place to live relatively safely after the war. Nothing more.
That already makes a major difference between the Ponevitcher Rav and most anti-Zionists. He had hakras hatov. He certainly did not look for confrontation. The lack of it and the confrontational always looking for a fight behavior that I saw among my fellow anti-Zionists was probably the biggest cause for my disillusionment from that movement and it’s beliefs (the group I was part of did not believe in the sitra achra business and did not believe that Israel had success in it’s wars due to Kochey V’otzem Yodey like some of the other anti-Zionist groups now do)
Rav Yosef Elya Henkin was very into the Shalos Shevous. He held that frum people should not vote or be in the knesset. BUT he also held that the anti-Zionist kanoim are no less guilty of violating the Shalos Shevous than the Zionists themselves are. Their confrontational behavior with the Zionists is also a violation of the Shalos Shevous (I think he said it in the name of Rav Chaim Ozer) See the end of the second volume of Kisve Rav Yosef Elya Henkin and some of the letters he wrote to Torah journals in the 1950s for an elaboaration
>>>Want to know what would have happened if the yidden would have listened to the zionists and gone to Eretz yisroel in the 30s? The Nazis came within a day of going to yerushalayim. There would have just been a slaughter there instead of in Europe.
While that is possibly true for someone like you who believes that during the six day way when Israel was facing a multi national coalition and outnumbered in everything from soldiers, tanks, planes, artillery etc by a ratio of three to nine depending on the item, it was all no major problem. You’re talking the Israeli army here. Give them less than a week and they will have their enemies defeated, then you should also believe the Zionist arguments that had we had a state of our own at the time we would have repelled Nazi Germany too.
>>>Smerel, that account by r. Lorencz is a mistake. The satmar rov didn’t say that nissim are from the soton, he said that there weren’t nissim in the 6 day war, and he was correct. The US military said it would take Israel around a week to do what it had to do.
I see. You know better than R Lorencz himself what the Brisker Rav told him. Where does the six day war and the Satmar Rebbe even come into this? The Brisker Rav was niftar seven years earlier. I don’t believe the US military said it would take Israel around a week to do what it had to do. There is not one newspaper around from that time that reports such a thing. Yaakov Shapiro claims I’ll find find it on CIA.gov. I tried that and could only find a an obvious fake website pretending to be the CIA making that claim
>>>Let’s remember 3rd grade parsha class. Devarim 13: כי יקום בקרבך נביא או חלם חלום ונתן אליך אות או מופת
I also remember learning about Pharoah and his refusal to see to the Yad Hashem. The approach of Pharoah is what I’m seeing being pushed here by you. I won’t elaborate so as not to start with the heretical arguments
>>>It’s also interesting how communities which minimize nissim and believe in “rationalism,” castigating Torah jews as backwards, and denying things like golems or stories of mofsim performed by tzadikim, are happy to accept nissim performed for a mixed gender army of mechalelei shabbos.
Of course the converse is also true….
In Satmar they celebrate 21 Kislev every year with total disregard for who were the one who arranged that “Nes Hatzlalah” Because they correctly perceive as being done on behalf of the Satmar Rebbe and not the people who they passionately hate who arranged it . Ditto when anyone else see nissim in Israeli wars. They see it as on behalf of Klal Yisroel.
There however certain militant secularists and atheists who refuse to see Yad Hashem. They have ood company in some of the anti-Zionist zealots.
Saying that “whoever thinks our victory in the six day way was because God intervened on our behalf is mistaken, it was all our superior strength and planning” is no more acceptable haskafa when coming from Yitzchok Rabin than when coming from Yakov Shapiro in The Empty Wagon. The difference is that Yitzchok Rabin was a tinok shnasba speaking to other tinokos snisbu. The Empty Wagon is meant to influence the frum world…
In the antizionist propaganda literature that I saw dropped in shul a few weeks ago there was the claim that the Israel stays around in these situations because of the Sitra Achra . Rav Shlomo Lorincz wrote in B’Mictasom that he asked the Brisker Rav what he thinks of that approach. The Brisker Rav said that it is ASSUR to say such things because it attributes to much independent power to the Soton over Ratzon Hashem.
>>>According to the Satmar Rav ztz’l miraclles cam originate from both sides. The eigel did not come from kedusha.
It’s one thing to say that the Soton has small time power in this world. Saying that he can control world events and major events affecting klal yisroel in a miraculous fashion sounds like Polytheism R’L. Which is universally considered to be kefira. See my other comment about that the Brisker Rav (whose antizionist credentials were impeccable) said it is ossur to say such a thing
>>>I’ve been in basically every anti zionist circle around; it’s just not true. Perfidy is the icing on the cake, but it’s not the reason why anyone’s antizionist.
I never said it was the reason anyone is antizionist.
I said that one of the many hypocrisies I saw in the antizionist groups was the reverence and unquestioning belief they accord to the book Perfidy when had the author written on any other topic pertaining to the Jewish world it would have been banned reading by them and something they would have unquestioning rejected as not true if they don’t like what it said . Similar to the way they do relate to the response of the people he accuses in the book. And that is just one EXAMPLE of the hypocrisy and lack of concern for the actual truth I saw which pushed me out of the extreme antizionist world.
I’m still not a Zionist. But I also came to realize that there is a lot of bad haskafa in what the antizionists write.(Their reverence for the book Perfidy is benign compared to some of the other haskificly questionable positions they take) And their propaganda does motivate many of their followers to engage in wrong behavior
>>>Smerel, I’m as anti zionist as they come, and i have never seen anyone put ben hecht on a pedestal or praise him.
On a personal level, no, they don’t praise Ben Hecht. On a theological level his book is considered the ultimate unquestionable truth. I grew up reading anti-Zionist propaganda and the book was frequently referred to. To this day the Natruna website of Yaakov Shapiro and his ilk (currently Torah Jews) sandwiches Perfidy between their haskafa seforim that are available for download. As in two links down from something written by Rav Elcohonan Wasserman. And one link above Yirmiyahu Cohen (a major theoretician of theirs) That is how much parity and value they give to it.
It goes without saying that although the people accused were alive at the time that Perfidy was written and their side of the story is easily available no hint of it, let alone a refutation, is ever given in anti-Zionist literature.
Ben Hecht admits to nothing. The book is limited to accusations about others. For things Ben Hecht was not even a witness to. The extreme anti-Zionist crowd puts him on such a pedestal and he is so central to their belief system and ideology because they seem desperate for validation coming from mechalel shabbos and koferim. . (Ben Hecht is very far from the only person who this is true about)
>>>In fact, the Zionists caused the Holocaust and also contributed to it, as the gedolim noted and, liHavdil, secular writers as well.
This comment focuses on the end of that sentence
One of the many, many reasons I became so disillusioned with the extreme anti-Zionist haskafa I once believed in was the hypocrisy I saw in it’s theoreticians and propagandists. One of their many hypocrisies was that they viewed anything coming the secular world as completely off limits. Yet when it came to Zionism that haskafa and belief of their was out the window.
A book like “Perfidy” written by a mechalal Shabbos b’farhesia and a Zionist to boot was treated with reverence almost as if it were a haskafa sefer written by a gadol hador who agreed with their haskafa. (For the most part they had no problem making fun of Gedoley Torah who didn’t agree with their haskafa) Had the author written on any other topic it would have been banned reading. Had he been making claims about anything they weren’t interested in believing it would have been dismissed out of hand because you can never trust such people. But since he wrote what they wanted to believe it was treated with total reverence and unquestioning belief.
>>>this is a part of why zionism is bad, that it costs Jewish lives. There isn’t a safe way out of the distress that the zionists put us in
Blaming the Zionists for the situation “they” put “us” in even if true (1)has no practical relevance today and (2)is not so different than the belief that gave birth to the Zionist movement to begin with which was “if we only we had a state of our own we would put a stop to the mass murder of Jews” that was then going on the world.
Both of them largely push Hashem and the hasgacha of Klal Yisroel and even the historical patterns faced by Klal Yisreol out of the picture. Both of them think “listen to us and antisemitism and murder of Jews will be a thing of the past”
I know some will say that murder of Jews in Israel today is Hashem’s punishment for Zionism . When you will explain why Hashem would punish people for something done way before they were born that they have no option or ability to change, maybe I’ll consider that as a valid haskafa.
>>>The problem with these discussions is everyone has their preconceived notions and cherry picks Pieces mamarei chazal to fit .
I have read a lot of anti-Zionist propaganda .Some opposition that I agree with. Some is a legitimate haskafa or political complaint even I personally do not agree with the conclusion. There is however one very important component that I have never seen in any of the anti-Zionist propaganda written over the past sixty years: Anyone even TRY to make an intelligent non emotional argument that Israel has the CURRENT option to give into the anti-Zionist demands without at the at least the very heavy risk of a Jewish bloodbath afterward.
>>>Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L said many times that he will not enter YU because it is bad. His son, Rav Schneur ZT’L, followed suit
Baloney! Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L was in YU borrowing seforim from their library. His name and identify is clearly written on the library cards which you can find on line but this site does not allow links. I heard from a SIl of ss son, Rav Schneur ZT’L in an ANTI YU speech that his scver was in YU trying to get them to hire a certain Lakewood talmidim as a rebbeim
>>>The ‘oh really’ was in reference to your immature conclusion behind the edit. If you knew the truth, you’d be embarrassed you said it.
Now you REALLY sound like a high school kid
shkoyach, your unsolicited opinion is warmly received.
It isn’t true that Jews can live wherever they want in the US. Technically and legally they may be able to live where ever they want. Safety wise they certainly can not. There is a reason why Yeshiva D’Harlem closed down and why Chaim Berlin did not move to East Flatbush after starting work on their building and why Brownsville which was once called the Jerusalem of America is now Judenrein. Etc.
And at least in those neighborhoods the people who choose to live there are only putting themselves at risk. Living in Gaza is putting unwilling others at risk too.
As long as we are in golus there will be places that Jews can not live in. Including in Eretz Yisroel. You may as well complain about the parts of Lebanon that are halachically Eretz Yisroel where Jews can’t live either.
It is true that covid was overplayed and a lot of “following the science” just meant follow my power hungry opinion but those who downplayed covid also cost many lives. Ridiculous as some of the measures ostensibly put in place to avoid Corona were, those who flouted rules and precautions did die at a lot higher rate than those who ignored them.
Source?
I personally would not eat something so unhealthy but for those who do they can probably rely on Shomer Pesaim Hashem to eat it.
Speeding when driving and breaking other traffic laws would probably be a much more serious concern when it comes to halacha and health
Even if the Democratic party does endorse the “D.E.I” platform favoring discrimination for favored groups and an endorsement of Hamas’s demand for genocide of Jews, most secular and liberal Jews will continue to support them anyway.
For all those who are sayin they would want to be a Shabbos goy when was the last time you were walking or driving down the street and were happy to stop to walk into some random strangers house to do something for him that you are so sure you would like be asked to do so repeatedly?
On a related note the proprietor of the “Shabbos guy business” in Lakewood said in a recent interview (that was clearly looking to drum up business) that as a teenager growing up in Lakewood he and his friends did not like that the frum community avoided then all week but all of the sudden Shabbos were calling them into their houses asking for favors
Nobody ,Jew or non-Jew, likes changing demographics resulting in their group being a diminishing presence in the area and some other group that doesn’t share their interest or political values taking over.
That said it also depends on where and what the concern is. I understand the resentment in a place where the frum community is rapidly growing and demanding changes to the budget and zoning to accommodate them. In a large urban area where even if the frum community does take over one neighborhood they still won’t be a big enough voting presence to cause any changes to the lives of the people living just a few blocks away from them, the resentment is not justified.
Mr Kuvult
May I remind you and everyone here of YOUR deep assessment of the issue here on YWN. I haven’t forgotten it becuase as I said then and repeat now it is from the most vile and antisemitic comments I ever seen on the blog world. And I’ve seen many vile and antisemitic comments on the blogworld
Here is your “brilliant” assessment
>>>Indefensible borders from who? Lebanon, Syria, Jordan & Egypt have neither the will nor capability to go to war with Israel. The Gulf States have no interest in war with Israel. The Palestinians with some automatic rifles & crude rockets are a non threat. The only threat is Iran 1,100 miles away giving Israel plenty of time to react before they get near Israel (& truth be told Iran really has no interest in a war with Israel.)
This is what bothers people about Israel (& Jews). Israel is the undeniable Superpower in the region where this time instead of a 6 day war it’d be max a 3 day war with a total victory for Israel. Yet we’re crying to the world like Israel is on the verge of being destroyed & people resent that.>>>Zionism is a clear issur from the gemara (shalosh shavuos)
Even assuming that is true, what falls into the category of zionism/shalosh shavuos is certainly not a clear cut issue. Not in the Gemora and not in the Rishonim and not even mentioned in Rambam or Shulchan Aruch
>>>everything that anyone argues is a legitimate machlokes, no matter of the consensus of rabbonim etc.
The differences between what make someone a Rav or lhvdil a reform rabbi is not an issue of consensus at all. Do you know what it is?
In my experience people whose relationship to Torah and mitzvahs is so heavily influenced by their view on Zionism (pro or against)that it is a part of their identity usually are willing to bend Torah sources to fit their biases on the issue
For the same reason there is usually a 7:1 Palestinian versus Israeli ratio of deaths during the fighting.
Palestinians are far more willing to suffer and die and send others out to suffer and die for their cause than Israelis are. Hundreds of Palestinians languishing in Israeli jails is only a problem for them in the context of less fighters. Hamas is never under any pressure to get their prisoners freed from the prisoners families, whereas the Israeli leaders are always crazy intense pressure to get the hostages freed. Therefore Hamas has the upper hand in the negotiations which it exploits to the fullest.I’m not saying the exchanges are the right thing to do. I’m just saying why they happen
>>>The Zionists misuse/abuse the Torah when it suits their propaganda purposes. That’s normal for them.
That is also true about their more extreme opponents
>>> their first leader, David Green, did so as well
Actually when he was alive the more extreme anti-Zionist was always complaining about why he never mention Hashem or Torah (though they had no problem with sucking up to non Israeli secular Jewish politicians who were guilty of the same) Now that the Israeli prime minister does frequently mention Hashem and Torah their partly line changed to he distorts Torah . What they remained consistent about is that they still have no problem sucking up to non Israeli secular Jewish politicians who are guilty of the same.
Even assuming the opposition to the rally of those Rabonim and Roshey Yeshiva is the final word on this issue, those quoting them online clearly do not have those motivation for opposing it
>>>That’s not how we fight a war. We fight by sitting in the Bais Medrash and crying Tehillim.
Nu, So how much more of that have YOU been doing since the war started? I’m not disagreeing with you. I just don’t get the sense that those most of those who oppose the rally on the grounds of “we fight by more learning and crying Tehilim” are actually doing so to any great degree. There are in fact many people who are doing so. But they aren’t the ones who are hocking online about how this is not the way we do things
Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin spoke for over thirty five minutes about the importance of Teshuva, Tefila, more learning, more Bein Adam L’Chovery due to the matzav. Interspersed in that he also spent two minutes against the rally. If you are seriously acting on what he said during the other thirty five minutes. Wonderful. Chazak V’Amatz. But if you aren’t then Rav Sorotzkin has nothing to do with why you aren’t attending.
>>>the Ribono shel Olam is a Democrat
He is the Malbish arumim, someich noflim, zokef kifufim.He doesn’t do so by taking away money from unwilling third parties. He expects histadlus from those who aren’t on a very high level of bitochen. etc.
Eric Adams may be corrupt but realistically speaking for a NYC Democrat he is about as good as you can get so no need to look for fights with him.
In my opinion much as these people want to get married they would still prefer to be single over marrying someone who they do not believe to be ideal for them. Deep down they know they are being unrealistic and have limited chances of getting married with these stipulations. They would still prefer that over someone who isn’t their ideal
Most charity warehouse aren’t open free for alls .Why should these warehouses be?
If you know so little about Cleveland , have so few contacts there and apparently no job waiting for you there that you need to ask about all this online before moving why are you limiting yourself to Cleveland?
I’m not sure if this is a troll question or not so I won’t answer it than to say thanks to modern technology, namely the Internet(Yes, Internet), there’s so much easy to do averos available. As a result of these innovations, people across the religious spectrum are doing averos every day, more so than the previous generations, is there a question why there may be more troubles facing Jews?