Forum Replies Created
The Brisk Myth
The assumption by the OP and some commenters is that Brisk is the top yeshiva. By deductive reasoning, one should expect our Gedolei Yisroel to have Brisk on their resumes. Sad to disappoint, but they do not. Now, this is not a put down for Brisk. It has a reputation, not because it produces the most superior products, but because it is one of the most selective. If it’s hard to get admitted, it must be top. The same logic is the doctor who only takes appointments months in advance. If it’s that hard to get an appointment, it must be a better doctor. Well, that’s a myth.
Brisk follows a derech of learning that is great for some and not so for others. Rav Chaim ZT”L was Sar Hatorah. He was as capable as anyone to learn with depth. But that was not his derech. And his learning was not inferior. It would be pretty audacious to minimize his Torah learning since he neither attended Brisk nor did he use their derech.
If we refrain from this form of “identity politics”, we might avoid serious pitfalls.
I am impressed with the degree of foolishness exposed in the OP. What energizes the audacity to determine the quality of a yeshiva? For one talmid, the so-called “best” yeshiva would be a disaster. For another talmid, the “worst” could be producing a Gadol Hador. Is the number of boys that enter Brisk the yardstick?
It’s one thing to explore the characteristics of a yeshiva. It’s another thing to rate them. That smacks of holier than thou, and this is not consistent with Torah value.
It is a mistake to confuse the Gemora that addresses the child who is not a talmid chochom with the contemporary concept of OTD.
We are witness today to families who raise many children to successful lives as ehrliche Yidden and talmidei chachomim while there is one child that just isn’t. And many of the Gedolei Yisroel have noted, אין בית אשר אין שם מת. The issue is pervasive. As much as we need to examine ourselves and our communities to identify the contributing factors, we need to recognize that parents are being given a Divine gift from Hashem – a child that has “special needs” of the spiritual type. If I have a child like that, HKB”H is telling me that He wants me to deal with it. It’s my nisayon and mission in life. Of course, I would want my child to follow in my footsteps, to carry on the heritage of my parents and ancestors. And I davened 3X daily asking for that. Hashem answered my tefilos. He said, “No.” He showed me that He had another direction for me. He wanted me to love the child that was not following my example.
Now that we are completing Chumash Bamidbor, we have covered the majority of major events that occurred during the 40 year trek, from leaving Mitzrayim through the end of the travel to the edge of the Yarden. We are now fully informed about the troubles, ממרים הייתם מיום דעתי אתכם. We read the stories of the eigel, asafsuf, mei merivoh, Zimri, Korach, and more. Throughout these times, HKB”H never missed a day of providing sustendance for Klal Yisroel, מן, בארה של מרים, and the embrace of the ענני הכבוד. Hashem was the loving provider, despite the most blasphemous and ungrateful Klal Yisroel during those times. We were OTD, yet had all the perks of the loved child. Shouldn’t we model that?
What would Rav Aharon ZT”L say?
I am intrigued by this topic. It calls into focus our critical need to examine what’s working and what’s not. And the question is similarly critical. But I suggest that we ask a different question first. Rav Aharon pioneered the kollel system as we know it in the 1940’s. His intention was to transplant the Torah that was destroyed in Europe to exist in America. There was a desperate need for yeshivos that would become centers for Torah learning, with products of yungerleit that could continue the chain of giving over Torah to future generations. And that was immensely successful. The Kol Torah achieves higher decibels continually.
But Rav Aharon was reportedly posed with a question. The Gemora (Sotah 42a) explicitly says that the proper way of the world is to establish a home, arrange parnosoh, and then marry, in that order. If kollel set marriage first, and parnosoh later, wasn’t this in violation of Divrei Chazal? To this, it is reported that Rav Aharon responded that his mission of creating the kollel system was a “horo’as sho’oh”. It was made for the moment, and was mandated by the situation.
The argument then becomes that this temporary “fix” has converted into a permanent state. Was this part of the plan? I can hear the argument either direction. But I rest my laurels on this approach. I do not believe we have the ability to say definitively what would have been. That sort of knowledge does not exist in our world, and it resides only in the Heavenly spheres. It goes under the category of “nistaros”.
All we can do is examine whether the system is working. Is the growing metropolis of Lakewood effective in promulgating the values of Torah life that was Rav Aharon’s life mission? Are the yungerleit continuing the banner of Torah, or are they just avoiding the responsibility of building their homes on their own backs? Has kollel life morphed into a culture of dependency, with the features of entitlement and egotistical ideas of klai kodesh? All good questions. What we cannot do is to reach into the crevices of the unknown, and to guess what Rav Aharon ZT”L would have said. I think he would have stated as I believe, and you feel the opposite. We’re right back where we started.
In summary. The community in Lakewood has grown immensely, and like anything else in life, it has its pluses and minuses. We should believe that Rav Aharon would have been genuinely pleased with the pluses. We might also believe that he would have been horrified by the negatives. What conclusion would he have reached? I have no ruach hakodesh, so I pass on that.June 20, 2022 10:52 am at 10:52 am in reply to: is Yeshiva system making talmiday chachamim? or stifling them? #2098535
You point to fundamental flaws here. I suggest that, among other factors, yeshivos have converted chinuch from a spiritual venture that is predicated on continuing the chain from Matan Torah to the next generation into a business. Yes, there are financial issues involved in running a yeshiva, from paying bills to payroll, etc. And much of what we parents observe is the extreme efforts to provide the money for the operation of the yeshiva, far more than the dedicated efforts to assist every yochid to excel and reach their own unique potential. We witness a system obsessed with discipline and rules, outshadowing the love that a rebbe needs to have for a talmid. You are correct in drawing attention to the lack of partnership between parents and yeshiva faculty. It should be there, a strong connection that every talmid witnesses. But it’s not all the fault of the parents. How often is a talmid punished for cumulated “aveiros” where parents had no idea until after the fact.June 17, 2022 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm in reply to: is Yeshiva system making talmiday chachamim? or stifling them? #2098061
The quote from the Chazon Ish in an earlier comment is something I heard expressed this way. He reportedly commented that the initial task of yeshivos immediately after the Holocaust was to re-establish Torah study. This meant focusing on the tzibbur – the population of the younger generation. But now (must have been prior to his passing which was in 1953) we have accomplished that goal, and our focus now must be on the individual.
My interpretation is that gearing to the masses is not the mission of chinuch any longer, and that the primary responsibility is to assist and guide each individual to achieve his maximum. I suppose if we had a perfectly verbatim quote, we would be in better to position to ascertain his intended message. If anyone can reference the exact wording, we all stand to benefit.June 16, 2022 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm in reply to: is Yeshiva system making talmiday chachamim? or stifling them? #2097695
After all the comments here, no two bochurim or yungerleit are identical in their capacities in learning. They differ in styles, their poattern of their learning כוחות, and trying to cookie cut them is irresponsible. Each one needs to develop according to their unique set of skills. I heard that Rav Chaim Kanievsky ZT”L was asked to leave a yeshiva ketana at a young age. The Steipler Gaon ZT”L took his son, and arranged for a melamed that would fit the type of learning that Rav Chaim pursued with his incredible hasmodoh. That produced the Gadol we were fortunate to see. Yes, Rav Chaim was a dropout from a system that could not educate him according to his set of skills and assets.June 16, 2022 11:16 am at 11:16 am in reply to: is Yeshiva system making talmiday chachamim? or stifling them? #2097521
The yeshiva system has zero chinuch thatis individualized that would produce the greatest talmidei chachomim. Large groups of bochurim are herded into a yeshiva/kollel, provided a shiur with a person of stature (Rosh Yeshiva, Magid Shiur, etc.), and everything is provided for the numbers of talmidim as a group. Missing here is the obvious. No two talmidim are identical. SOme need to delve more into amkus and pilpul, others into halacha, and yet others into bekiyus. It should be the responsibility of every Rosh Yeshiva to know the talmidim inside out to be able to guide them to achieve their maximum. That is only done individually, never en masse. But our current systems of chinuch at every single level are more similar to public schools and universities, where the same shiur is given to all, and all are expected to mold to the system to excel. We have all this talk about “find the right yeshiva” for a bochur. That is inherently flawed. The yeshiva needs to accommodate the talmid. חנוך לנער על פי דרכו. Nowhere does it even hint to molding the talmid to accommodate to the derech of a rebbi. The very notion of a curriculum, as we observe it in our yeshivos, is foreign to true Torah chinuch. Before jumping on me, review Hilchos Talmud Torah from Rav Shulchan Aruch, then Hilchos Talmud Torah in Rambam, then the sizable number of seforim from Gedolei Yisroel on chinuch. Then I can join a debate.
What an interesting question! I have a better one. What’s the truth about the person inside the kapote? Is he truly someone of stature, a talmid chochom, a tzaddik, a role model for all of Klal Yisroel? When we meet our Maker after 120, we do not ascend with velvet collars nor with the numbers of followers. Our generation is obsessed with chitzoniyus. How tragic that we ignore the rerality of our Divine purpose to fulfill the Ratzon Hashem and the gloify Him in all we do. So we are busy glorifying ourselves, and pretending that all this is holy.
You are accurate about what should be. This was not quite as common in the Litvishe circles until more recently, but was always a central point among the chassidishe communities. However, it is also noteworthy, quite sadly, that there are some that have forgotten the tachlis, and gotten stuck in the process. Yes, there are those that deify their leaders. I would bet that you have observed this, too. How unfortunate that these innocent Gedolim have been casted by some to be something they are not.
And I have observed people seeking something essentially davening to Reb Shaya ben Reb Moshe. That reeks of Avodah Zarah, deifying a tzaddik. I have difficulty seeing this tzaddik tolerating being made into a G-d.
Such practices are not unknown to the chassidishe world, where their leaders are put on a pedestal far greater than a leader of a flock and a teacher of Yiras Shomayim. We can be all for the respecting of Gedolim. Making them into deities is not Ratzon Hashem. There have been tzaddikim that openly criticized those chassidim that did this.
I don’t recall the name of the Rov who guided parents to assess whether the prospective mechutanim were the kind of people one might be able to handle a gett with. If yes, they could be suitable mechutanim who would get along with them.
AAQ: You listed issues that are of really dubious value as superficial matters that can be used to knock names off the list, such as nusach, politics, sports, gebrokts, etc. I hope you were injecting a drop of humor here. I need to say that because I have seen otherwise great shidduchim bypassed irresponsibly with these trivia as the breakers. Conversely, I have seen shidduchim where these factors all matched that became disastrous, ending up in bitter, highly contested divorces.
My two cents
I have no hesitation about parents being involved and conducting the research. As a structure, that’s fine. However, I must emphasize that this investigation often focuses on trivia, and often produces heaps of bias and frank lies, rendering all the efforts meaningless. And unless the boy and girl themselves have amazing people skills and midos with a hefty dash of Syatta Dishmaya, we have created a potential divorce with its fallout.
Just what questions are being asked? How about useless ones like, “Tell me about the boy’s or girl’s personality.” Or “What levush does he wear?” “Why did he/she go to that camp?” Or another favorite joke, “Does he plan to sit and learn?” After answers to such questions, we know nothing that addresses preparation for marriage, or we have pat answers that are uninformative or plainly dishonest.
Do we know how either party deals with adversity or challenge? Are they groomed for lives of dependency, as our kollel system preaches? Do the kids have a spiritual connection or are they just robots with compliance to the community and a helping of chumros to impress others? Do they resolve conflict, or are they apt to find petty disagreements as threats to their dignioty or sense of control?
It is often that a boy or girl have life goals that differ greatly from the parents’ aspirations. Even with proper research, we are set up for conflict and trouble. No, I don’t believe kids generally do good research. But parents are not a whole lot better. The divorce rate in our community has jumped much higher than it’s ever been. One of many reasons is the dearth of accuracy in information available to the two sides. And without a huge amount of Syatta Dishmaya, it would probably be a lot higher.
You are correct in principle, though your lomdus needs correction. The Gemora (Taanis 8b – 9a) says עשר בשביל שתתעשר, that in the nmerit of tzedokoh, one merits wealth. The Novi (Malachi 3:1) stated ובחנוני נא בזאת, from which the Chazal explained that one may “test” HKB”H with the mitzvah of tzedokoh that will merit the giver wealth. The Tur and Shulchan Aruch refer to this. Tzedokoh is the one mitzvah that one may perform without the intention of “lishmoh”, and even do so with the ulterior motive of meriting parnosoh. You are certainly on target by referencing the mitzvah of tzedokoh.
Since peyos are being sported as a mitzvah, it is proper to treat them accordingly, with proper respect. If one has peyos that are oitherwise not neat, unkempt, and messay, then it is preferred that he do something to curtail that. Whatever works for him is acceptable. Behind the ear, curled, whatever. Different patterns emerged according to goegraphic location or other factors. Chassidim have a pattern of mimicking their rebbe. Otherwise, I’m not so sure there is any great significance to this trivial detail. I do not consider someone with front peyos more frum, more chassidish or more anything else than anyone else. It is time we pay attention to other things that are far more relevant than to trivia like this.
Yes, we find many references in Shas and Medrash for things that merit parnosoh. They are all holy and true. What I am about to say does not mitigate this a bit.
When the Satmar Rov (Divrei Yoel) was asked about the known segulah of reciting Parshas Hamohn, he reportedly said openly that this is effective until 8:59 am. From 9:00, the person should use the segulah called working.
The concept of segulah, as we are using it in this discussion, is a trick that provides us with something that we did not otherwise earn. This is highly suspect, and I have trouble believing that this is the intended role. Picture a young able bodied person spending his day reciting Parshas Hamohn, and avoiding going to work. Shall we believe that this the intention of that segulah? I know I don’t. A segulah is a supplement that we can use to potentiate the activities we employ to accomplish a task. It is not a substitute. And it is sad that many approach segulos that way.
And many other things are also in this category. Davening by kivrei tzaddikim is a precious gem. Mekomos hakedoshim are particularly auspicious. But to treat a medical illness by refraining from medical care and sitting around in cemeteries, even by big tzaddikim is irresponsible. The velt seems to use segulos in a childish manner, to get them off the hook from being responsible. It’s time for a little maturity.
Save your accusations for those who deserve it. I do NOT condemn anybody. The Torah world today uses the Mishna Berurah as its basic guide to Shulchan Aruch. Yes, halacha often has dissenting opinions, and אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים. No one challenges that. I am not worried about those whose drinking is simply and only to follow halacha. I utterly abhor those who get wasted just because they consider it a mitzvah and are honestly doing it for their own hedonistic reasons. And those who believe that they are being “machmir” are nothing better than fools. Ad delo yoda does NOT mean to lose one’s mind. That is a blasphemous translation, and is found nowhere is our poskim. שכרותו של לוט is referred to in the Mishnah and the Rambam as תועבה. I am not against the mitzvah to drink on Purim. I am against its exploitation, and the extremes of drunkenness should be shunned by everyone with a Torah value system. That’s what I condemn, and I do so because our greatest Torah leaders of many generations have done that.
So when you’re ready to make accusations, fiind someone who is blasphemous for a target. Meanwhile, the mitzvos of Emunoh (as in אנכי ה’ אלקיך) remain in permanent status, and I will NOT obliterate my ability to think and be mevatel that fundamental mitzvah.
This thread contains the usual stupidity that gets repeated here annually. We read comments about being “machmir” to get drunk, as if the Rem”o and the Mishnah Brurah are finding loopholes. Then we hear about how the gedolei Yisroel who openly condemn the inebriation are in error, while the rest of the year, they bow on their knees to the same Daas Torah. And, as mentioned earlier, the subject of pikuach nefesh is completely ignored. The biggest trouble with these discussions is that the obvious message of drinking in moderation or to drink responsibly is considered blaphemous, even though it comes from Gedolei Poskim, Hatzoloh, medical professionals, and other experts in the fields of chinuch and addictions. Articles, presentations by video, podcast, etc. are considered entertaining, but ignored when it comes to following them in real life. Hypocrisy fares quite well, and the violators claim that this is “halacha”.
I have yet to hear of these same plastered machmirim extending themselves to shower more matanos lo’evyonim. No, ‘cuz that’s not halacha. Sorry, friends, but halacha is not what you want it to be, but what it is. And I turn to our leaders who shun the shikruso shel Lot emphatically. When drunk, one cannot engage in Avodas Hashem. So says the Rambam. Wanna talk halacha? Start with what the greatest poskim of our history told us. Then how about the Gedolei Yisroel who are a beacon of light in our dark golus.
There is a story of Reb Zushe published in several of the reputable collections of chassidic tales. Reb Zushe came into a town as Rebbe, and was invited to lead a meal in his honor. As he weas served the food, he turned the plate over onto his kaftan. The hoist was horrified, apologized for the mistake, and sent for another portion. This, too, Reb Zushe dumped onto his bekeshe.After the third such event, the host begged Reb Zushe to explain to him why he is doing this. Reb Zushe explained that several years before, he and his brother Reb Elimelech were traveling through this town, and they were unable to find anyone wishing to provide them with even a morsel of food. Reb Zushe related that after several days of painful hunger, he davened, and HKB”H made two nipples grow in his mouth, one providinig him milk and the other honey. That miracle was needed for his survival. Reb Zushe told him that he is now here in this same city, and being showered with honor. Reb Zushe says, “I am the same Zushe that no one would feed. All that is different is my attire, the bekeshe. This food is being brought for the bekeshe, not for me. So I am delivering it to its target.”
You are correct, and you are also wrong. The connection of tefiloh and tzedokoh is found in two places. רבי אליעזר יהיב פרוטה לעני והדר מצלי. Rabi Eliezer would give a prutah to a poor person and would then daven. This tzedokoh prior to davening seems to refer to each tefiloh, Shacharis, Mincha, and Maariv. This is divrei Chazal. There is also a minhag, referenced by the Ari Zal, to give tzedokoh during the recitation of ויברך דוד.
As far as collecting, there is no reference about this being required. Rather, it is a convenience for the collector to find people together to seek donations, not different from the collecting that is done by weddings or other gatherings. It has been happening for eons.
However, poskim address the matter of disturbing tefiloh, and prohibit collecting during parts of davening when the hefsek is either forbidden or disgraceful. Collecting during Shema is terrible. One may not interrupt Shema at all. Mishna Berurah is adamant about not collecting during Kriyas Hatorah, saying it is a bizayon for the Torah. Sadly, few collectors are careful to avoid disrespecting the tefiloh or the mispalel. I sympathize with their desperation. Even those collecting for very legitimate causes have been disruptive.
This discussion is timely. We embark soon on the holy day of Purim when collecting reaches an annual frenzy. Yeshivos typically mobilize their talmidim to raise money, insisting that this helps balance their budgets. In another thread, we might debate this. But it is not the rule that children are properly taught to respect either tefiloh or the mispalel. They often bang their pushkas during Megillah reading. I was shocked to see bochurim doing this.
Tzedokoh is a precious mitzvah. Tainting it with dishonesty and disturbing tefiloh is unacceptable.
Situations like this are ripe for exploitation. With numerous opportunities to “cash in” and claim to be raising funds for refugees, it is likely that we are in line to so victimized. While we are at the loss of our money, the truly needy aren’t getting what they need. It would be wise to scour the heimishe media, and to donate to those that are direct testimony of the atricities and destruction. YWN has several of these, and they should be taken seriously. The random emails that can flood our inboxes lack the credibility.January 24, 2022 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm in reply to: What Steps Will the Charedi World Take to Try to Prevent Abuse #2054299
The consequences of being accused are very serious. Aside from those that involve the courts, the wreckage to someone’s reputation, employment, family, etc. are devastating. It’s not about protecting the molester. It’s about allowing the devastation to progress only where there is credibility to the accusation. Whether that gets proven by a court or otherwise, I don’t care. Those consequences are also dinei nefashos. And we cannot use statistics to pasken these questions. We need to have something verified. In reality, we do not need to commit all these devastating moves for the accused. We need to take any and all immediate steps to protect the victims and potential victims. This may mean suspending from a job or moving out of a home. But the publicity that leads to all the other consequences needs to based on verified information, not statistics.January 19, 2022 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm in reply to: people who become therapists usually just want haak #2052542
And people who become hospital escorts like to push people around.
We can do this to almost any occupation.
Electricians are not working with all circuits.January 19, 2022 9:23 am at 9:23 am in reply to: people who become therapists usually just want haak #2052503
Silly wabbit. Twix are for kids.
Someone shared with me the following:
ויצעקו בני ישראל, Rashi comments – תפסו אומנות אבותם בידם. They grabbed the practice of their fathers – davening. But Moshe tells them ואתם תחרישון, you should be silent. Why? What were they doing wrong?
In Targum Yonasan, we find an interesting translation. ואתון שתוקו והבו יקרא ותושבחתא ורוממו לאלקכון. Be silent, and offer praises to your G-d. Is singing praises silence? Perhaps Moshe is giving them guidance. He is telling them that praying and asking for something is contraindicated here. Such tefilos require the fitness of the individual. As we know, there are Mal’ochim that are mekatreg, and the situation at the Yam Suf involved kitrug of הללו עובדי עבודה זרה. Moshe Rabbeinu troubleshot this dilemma. If tefilos are expressed as שירות ותשבחות, there isn’t kitrug.
דבר אל בני ישראל ויסעו. The message is that their tefilos of שירות ותשבחות have been accepted already. Now, move.January 11, 2022 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm in reply to: Tomorrow Segula for Parnasa, Saying Parashas Haman #2050464
This entire discussion is more shallow than superficial. There is a glaring question that is either beyond the awareness or simply denied. We are told that מזונותיו של אדם קצובין לו מראש השנה עד ראש השנה. Could someone rely on that and not bother working? There are several answers to this? Here’s one.
The קצובין provides the allocation of this parnosoh. Trump allocated money to build the Wall. While Hashem will not withdraw the allocation, if the receiver fails to merit the delivery of it, it rermains unspent. People who write budgets for businesses understand this well. All the segulos won’t help the one that will fail to merit it or provide a conduit for the shefa.
Lastly, there are numerous known segulos for parnosoh. Many of these are commonplace, done by all, yet seem to have failed in the expected wealth. Others are also well referenced in Divrei Chazal, yet we have no campaigns or publicity. I can provide ample references if anyone here wants them.January 11, 2022 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm in reply to: Tomorrow Segula for Parnasa, Saying Parashas Haman #2050353
There is another nusach floating around cyber space of 8:00 am.
This quote has existed for many years. It is more believable that the supposed quote from Reb Mendel of Rimanov. The Divrei Yoel pushed his chassidim to work honestly and to learn. Reb Mendel Rimanover pushed for Parshas Hamohn daily.January 10, 2022 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm in reply to: Tomorrow Segula for Parnasa, Saying Parashas Haman #2049997
Segulos have become a subject of heavy marketing, and I seem to share the disgust in this. Tzedokoh is a wonderful thing. And when we give, we should not be purchasing anything. While it is true that one can ask for reward for giving tzedokoh, sacreligious for all other mitzvos, this has been taken to an illogical level, and actually poses a threat to our fulfilling mitzvos as Dvar Hashem that we follow to become closer to Hashem. The treasure of segulos is hinted in countless places throughout Chazal, and the greats of all subsequent generations have accessed this inyan as well. So not denying the existence of segulos in general, I am horrified when I see them become the subject of marketing. Cuiases, otherwise worthy and charitable, now suggest that they are the supreme resources for various brochos, heretofore the domain of HKB”H.
The seguloh of Parshas Hamon – reciting it daily is referenced widely, including the annotations on Shulchan Aruch. It didn’t make it into the siddur as a hoax. And the sopurce for reciting it with שנים מקרא ואחד תרגום is also mentioned by Acharonim from long ago. The relevance to Tuesday of Beshalach is the hoax. It was created by a prankster in the early post war years. There is not even an explanation for why that day is any more auspicious than any other calendar date. The spread of this hoax just testifies the level to which our community expect shortcuts in Avodas Hashem.
The Satmar Rov – Divrei Yoel ZT”L is quoted regarding the seguloh of reciting Parshas Hamon, stating that it works up until 8:59 am. From 9:00 and on, the seguloh for parnosoh is to go to work. It’s like expecting the win the lottery without buying a ticket.January 10, 2022 9:25 am at 9:25 am in reply to: Tomorrow Segula for Parnasa, Saying Parashas Haman #2049859
I’m still waiting for someone to document the Tuesday of Beshalach as a segula for anything. Reb Mendel of Rimanov pushed for saying it every day, as mentioned in countless seforim. Neither people who lived in Rimanov nor his descendants can support anything relevant to Tuesday of Beshalach. I think it’s a great hoax.
I discussed this with a friend who is a therapist. The office was located in a hospital, and it was located within several offices and large treatment rooms, so there was frequent traffic. When sxeeing an opposite gender client/patient, the therapist would ask a secretary to come to the door and open it at some point durinf the session hour. This was done all the time. when the sessions were sheduled at hours that the secretary was not there, the therapist npotified the security guard in the building to do a pop-in. The client/patient was notified of this.
This not only fulfilled the halacha requirement, as instructed by a posek, but it also provided a measure of safety that would be recognized by a secular court.
You wrote: “Having a yetzer hora doesn’t mean one isn’t a good therapist.”
That’s correct. But acting upon the urges of that yetzer horah does mean the therapist is not good. Actually, not just not good, but someone who should not be working in the field.
Having experienced quite a few situations of broken shidduchim, boys’ side and girls’ side, I must comment on the generalizations that are typical to these discussions. Boys and girls are very different, in their values, their tendencies, their middos, and all of this is dwarfed by the individual differences between any two people.
The factors in every situation are unique. And many of the issues may well be beyond human grasp. Imagine that someone can share a rational reason for wanting in or out of a shidduch. We can converse about this, agree, disagree, and our thoughts and positions on this may actually matter. However, if the reasons that someone is attracted to or repelled by a prospective chosson or kallah emanate from the emotional side, all our discussions are a huge waste of time. People differ on how much emotional connection they want to feel to enter into a shidduch or to withdraw from it. You cannot legislate emotion.
We have all heard prescriptions from various people, sometimes professionals, sometimes roshei yeshiva, sometimes just friends and acquaintances on how many dates someone needs to have before looking to conclude a shidduch. I frown on these bits of advice, as they generalize something with is specific and unique to each individual.
I am somewhat familiar with the psak from Reb Moshe ZT”L. We should take note of the date. For quite a few decades, schools of psychology and social work, and I presume other mental health fields) were adamant that the beliefs of the clients/patients be left alone. These school teach that delving into them is a violation of one’s personal rights, and that this would constitute a violation of professional ethics. At the time of the shailoh and teshuvah with Reb Moshe, this was not the accepted position. Reb Moshe was correct in directing that one should not allow a professional to tinker with one’s emunoh. The fear of the “min” or “kofer” was the tendency they have of seeking to push their agenda, and there would be a need to create boundaries to prevent that.
I answered your question quite well. You made a glaring insinuation that the field of mental health providers is not a “frum” field because of its nisyonos. I’m sorry, but that message is patently absurd. And I explained my points quite clearly. The nisyonos you mentioned are known, and are addressed daily by all therapists of all the involved disciplines. And I also implied that every barrel will have its rotten apple, which does not suggest that apples be banned. On the positive side, the needs for these services are immense, and we are witness to growing numbers of frum men and women stepping up to the challenge to help Klal Yisroel. You did acknowledge the need. Well, some people are taking that call and directing their lives and careers to provide desperately needed help. Therapists I know can all point to individuals and families that are functioning far better, and able to fill their roles in their communities and Klal Yisroel. Had you asked this question 50 years ago, I might have wondered. But today, there is a great amount of alliance between the professionals, Gedolei Yisroel, Roshei Yeshivos, Rabbonim, Dayanim, Poskim, etc. Again, you might be able to point to some bad apples. But the field today is in its prime and constantly improving. Your labeling it as certainly being “not a frum” profession is either ignorant or malicious.
I will be dan lekaf zechus, that this question is asked out of curiosity and innocence. If that were not the case, I find it incredibly ignorant.
There is not a career without its nisyonos. Yes, kollel yungerleit who invest themselves in their learning are challenged with many things. Many are pressured to provide their homes and fmailies with more, and their ability to be mistapek bemu’at is limited. They can easily follow temptation to get involved in various ruses to claim entitlements that they should not get. Such gezel can become chilul Hashem. One would think that being machmir on kashrus and shiurim would accompany uncompromising honesty in money matters. I am not accusing anyone. These infractions do occur, and I am drawing attention to the reality of the nisayon.
The entire business world, retail and wholesale is full of huge challenges. Genaivoh, gezailoh, genaivas daas, ono’as mamon, ribis, etc. are immense challenges.
Chinuch is not simple either. Embarrassing a talmid is a huge aveiroh. Even the talmid who requires a disciplinary word must not trash the dignity of the child. Malbin pnei chaveiroh is serious enough to block a person from his otherwise destined olan haboh. The Rambam specifies that this includes a victim who is a child.
Rabbonim can pasken wrongly, they can neglect a congregant, they can address a conflict situation while violating shemo’ah bein acheichem, etc.
Every aspect of our world is frought with nisyonos. Now let’s consider the positives:
There is a desperate need in Klal Yisroel to have professionals able and willing to address personal problems. Having such professionals who can perform these needed services without compromising on Torah value is critical.
The mitzvah of restoring, or helping to restore, the simchas hachaim for an individual or couple is huge. Gedolei Yisroel have addressed this subject in numerous ways. Some refer to a mitzvah of hashovas aveidoh. Others to being a shaliach of Hashem to bring about refuah. The Rambam addresses the matter of cholei nefesh and cholei ruach, and equiates it to cholei haguf.
Every barrel has its rotten apples, including the few fields mentioned above. I sincerely hope the question posed was out of ignorance or curiosity.
I find the dialogue here very disturbing. The severity of the alleged crimes is huge, no denying or minimizing that. The actions taken, however, can easily be done without attention to the rule of halacha, and to no one’s benefit.
Here’s a fictitious scenario. Rabbi Ploni is alleged to have committed the unspeakable, with a number of victims who are minors. These victims need to say something, and they need to be taken seriously. Yes, proper interrogation and evaluation is critical. But all of this does not pronounce the alleged perpetrator guilty. Yet, we need to accept the complaints with appropriate seriousness to take whatever steps are needed to protect potential victims. This rebbe needs to step away from his charge immediately, without the fanfare of media and social media. There are halachos about safety, no different than halachos about not damaging a not-yet guilty man. And let’s not forget halachos of lashon horah.
The percentage of false accusations does not need to be high to affect out approach. We would not accept erring about the minute chance of finding a bug in our vegetables, and we should not err here either. But that does not diminish our obligation to take necessary safety measures, and remove the alleged perpetrator from a position of power and easy access to potential victims.
Treating the accused as innocent and allowing the situation of the past to continue might be a percentage of risk that we cannot take, whatever the number is. Err on the side of safety and caution. Publicity serves no one’s purpose, and harms without redeeming benefit.
Yes, the anonymity of the accused needs to remain. No one has ever proven the safety gained by going public. I know the fanatic advocates in the area of child abuse will be incensed by my words. Well, that’s too bad.
The implied accusation is that too high a percentage of entrants to kolle are doing so because of a trend or style. Our hope that they are engaging in Torah Lishmoh is wishful thinking. It simply doesn’t “paas” for many to go directly to work. “He’s nebach a working boy.” Yet, no one utters a single disappointing word about someone that makes himself into a public expense. I’m not against kollelim. We all did that. But our contemplation about career needs to have been initiated in our teen years. For some who are a good fit for it, full time learning is the direction. For most, it is not.
I once observed that we recite the posuk, ועמך כולם צדיקים. We do not utter ועמך כולם רבנים, nor do we proclaim ועמך כולם חכמים. Those without the erudition in Torah can still be tzaddikim. I know that chassidus had as one of its original tenets the kedusha of the simple Yid who would sustain himself with daily work, perhapos without the scholarship in Torah, but performed mitzvos with devotion and ehrlichkeit. I do not consider a kollel yungerman better than a working boy. Each is fulfilling their takkid. The caste system that labels the honest working boy who does his tafkid as somehow “less than” is missing the point. Did Yaakov Avinu bless his children with various forms of parnosoh, with only Yissachar designated to be the learner? And in most psukim, we find Zevulun mentioned before Yissachar, his older brother.
So if we make it unfashionable to work, we have women doing anything possible to earn a dollar so that the husband/father gets to spend the day in kollel. It cannot not exist. But this as a style is not healthy for the Klal. הרבה עשו כרבי שמעון ולא עלתה בידם.
I actually agree with you. The hiusbands should be working and supporting their homes and families. It should not be the job of the wife/mother. The stark reality is that you wpould seek to eliminate the kollel as a fixture for all young marrieds. I do believe that kollel should be far more restricted for those who would succed in the present and future from the kollel learning. For the other huge majority, they should have resources to continue to be koveya ittim while working (and/or training for a career). But I do not anticipate find much change here, and will acquiesce to accepting the status quo. So husbands will not be doing the working or earning. And keeping their wives on meager wages is untenable.
Yep. Free market. If salaries are too low, the teachers will look for jobs elsewhere. And chinuch for girls, elementary, high school, and seminary will be conducted by single girls recently graduated from the seminaries. You won’t find experienced teachers willing to work for wages that contribute nothing to their tafkid to raise their families (while the husbands learn in kollel). Is that what you want to see happen to girls’ education? There are forces here that contribute to the direction of the “free market”. The problem is not simple or small, and dismissing it out of hand is not smart.
I find your comment shocking. Your mashgiach told you clearly that smoking is ossur d’Oraysa. You then run to ask the Rosh Yeshiva? Really? If that is your relationship to talmidei chachomim, you seem to want to pick and choose. You distrust the mashgiach?
Why are you even asking? You were given a hora’ah. Oh, you’re addicted to tobacco. That permits trashing the psak from the mashgiach. That’s your problem. Your personal drives and desires are allowed to shape your adherence to halacha. Such a shame to adopt a derech like this. It flaunts your personal taavos as priorities over Torah and Halacha. And you are a yeshiva bochur?
I don’t take lightly a comment that says the problem exists but just ignore it and move on. Do you mean to say that if there was a issur on something and the yeshiva made that a rule, that these heilige lomdim would flagrantly violate? It is more important to throw talmidim like this out of the yeshiva than someone whose parents can’t afford tuition. It is not a “simple mistake” to be oveir an issur d’Oraysa that is concurrently an issur of yeshiva policy.
So your choice is to make it muttar? Would you say the same for eating chazzer or shrimp? If everyone will violate the issurim, just legalize it? Maybe we should eliminate that mitzvah of Venishmartem? Is that what you advocate?
As a bochur, you should be bent on doing everything conceivable to follow Dvar Hashem and to become closer to HKBH. Looking to permit indulgence in gashmiyus should NOT be consistent with your thinking.
Thanks for checking. To anyone who checks out the sefer: Peruse the haskamos, read through the direct quotes in the sefer from the array of gedolim. Note the overwhelming majority who did not just say it is ossur, but that it is an issur d’Oraysa.
I heard from older talmidim from Lakewood that Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L stated this openly. I was told that it is recorded, though I have not heard that recording.
Perhaps you might rewrite your critique of my comment differently if you would study the subject matter. I did so and have amassed a sizable stack of references. Smoking is not just assur as a chumrah. It is halacha psukah. I can provide you with documentation and references. The poskim issuing such psak are the same ones that the general Klal Yisroel – Shomrei Mitzvos – Olam Hatorah revere as their Gedolim. It is correct to note that Many greats of yesteryear smoked, some quite heavily. That predates the extensive documentation on the dangers. Others may have found out more information when it was too late for them to stop. I believe one of the heavy smokers, Rav Fisher ZT”L from the Badatz in Eretz Yisroel continued smoking after he was already dependent on an oxygen tank. He had staunchly refused to concur with the issur on smokinig issued by his colleagues. However, he did make a public statement sometime closer to his passing that he regretted smoking and not being more challenging as a posek. He declared it as an absolute issur.
As for the tons of poskim, I suggest you seek the education about the subject. Here are two seforim you should purchase (or borrow) and review in detail.
פאר תחת אפר
חיים ללא עישון
I will not bother to copy the list of poskim whose statements are quoted there. There are prior threads on the subject in the CR, and you may be able to search and find them. I’m not becoming defensive here. You do not favor smoking any more than I do. But I am relating the strength of the piskei halacha issued from our Gedolei Yisroel, and I am providing resources that prove my point.
Lastly, the aveiroh goreres issue is a decoy. You and I do not know what these bochurim do when away from view. We do not know the sincerity of their connection to the RBSO when confronted with physical desires. No, I would not expect to find a yeshiva bochur who smokes sneaking into Burger King.
I read articles and threads on this subject on this site (and sometimes others), and I am stunned by something. The same bochurim would go out on a limb for the latest chumroh, would plead the case for learning 20 hours a day, would think lowly of someone who chose to pursue a career to provide for his family and support mosdos, and would reject various hechsherim as not stringent enough. But smoking, pronounced a violation of a mitzvas lo saaseh by countless poskim, is something they will indulge in. I have heard several claim that Reb Moshe Feinstein ZT”L was matir smoking – a vicious lie. Let’s pretend that the issur of smoking was not min haTorah, but miderabonon, or maybe a chumroh. Should not a bochur who seeks chumros in every other part of life follow this for smoking?
It is clear to me that the chumroh game is insincere, and is more about a display for others than about Yiras Shomayim.
The hypocrisy is stunning, and I am puzzled why our Roshei Yeshivoh are not consistent with rejecting such bochurim from their yeshivos, as they would be with someone with a fully filtered smartphone.November 28, 2021 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm in reply to: what is the cause of income inequality in the jewish commnuity? #2035110
I suggest the cause of inequality is the attention paid to the numbers and the yetzer horah to compare and contrast them. I look around, at my family both immediate and extended, the neighbors, the others davening in the shul where I go, and I could bet with certainty that there is a wide variety of incomes represented. Except that no one really cares, and it doesn’t really matter. The latter for multiple reasons.
Someone who is happy with his lot is far better off than someone with greater wealth but who is not happy with his. The tzuris that Klal Yisroel suffers, while sometimes a public or political issue, include many troubles that are experienced by individuals, not always known to others. So if someone has monetary wealth, but a family member who is seriously ill, does their income suggest they are happier?
Granted, someone on a meager salary might not be able to distribute tzedokoh in a manner that resembles the gvir. Is that all there is to our lives? The meager earner that gives according to his ability is doing his mitzvah royally, perhaps more or al least not less than the gvir who doles out the larger sums.
Lastly, מה ה’ שואל מעמך? I thought our existence as Am Yisroel is about what we are, not about what we have. Why are we paying attention to these differences as “inequality”?November 24, 2021 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm in reply to: Is homework for our children actually important? Does it make any difference? #2033297
Just as the requisite partnership can have its advantages, it can be misused. Your example of the toothbrush is appropriate. I have heard of rebbeiim and teachers expecting a parent to punish a child for misbehavion in school. Whether this extends to homework is debatable. Personally, I agree that homework should be minimal, and often zero.
Hold onto him long enough to verify who sent him. Find the drug dealer and make sure he wishes he were dead. Drug dealers have a lacha of rodef. Looking for the easy way out, giving him protection of any kind is against halacha and a threat to all.November 22, 2021 10:56 am at 10:56 am in reply to: Is homework for our children actually important? Does it make any difference? #2031995
I can’t speak to the research, as I have not reviewed it. But I can opine on the saichel of giving homework. A big tachlis is that it unites the school and home environments. The parents and hanhala doing the teaching need to be partners in raising the child. Each has important roles, and the more successful the partnership is, the better the product.
My opinion is that the material taught is only a vehicle to transmit the values of Torah and mitzvos. The ability to “spit back” the material that was ingested is reflective of memory skills, which is only one of many skills needed to grow into an adult ben Torah and Yirai Shomayim. The seforim on the mitzvah of Talmud Torah do extol the virtues of yediyas haTorah, but it is secondary to Ahavas haTorah. The latter promotes devaikus, the former is apt to be limited to downloaded data unless it is paired with Ahavas haTorah.
Does using a screen name protect you like masks would if you were in physical proximity? Or does that just work for computer viruses?
I can rewrite the opening diatribe with simple modification of the details, and it would say the virtual opposite.
A guy just needs to wear a neat suit, pledge to spend unlimited years in kollel, dress in the mandated uniform of the yeshiva, look down at peers who chose careers to provide parnosoh, have lots of kids, broadcast the latest in chumros to impose on the family, and proudly get accepted with a yes that must just not be truly deserved. But then, it’s usually too late to back out.
Shidduchim entails a huge element of Syatta Dishmaya, and many defy logic. The two candidates that met were just propped images that were provided for the other to see, with little reality until after the wedding. With all our efforts to screen the prospects, we must still daven intensely to be zocheh to find the right one, and to establish and maintain a good marriage. The genders do have different experiences, but if we total all the variables, no one wins and no one loses the contest.