ubiquitin

joseph

as I said “Nobody here suggested replacing Tisha ba’av with Yom hashoa”

DY

Earlier in the thread you had said
“Ubiquitin, I don’t get your point either. Are you saying: A) There’s an inyan to eat more than the minimum shiur… I disagree with A.”

Since that time I have been doing some reasarch on what I found to be an interesting question, namely is there a mitzva to eat more than a kezayis.
I was hoping to write up a “shtickel” the problem is I could hardly find a source saying there was no mitzva, which makes it a bit difficult (though not impossible) to write much of interest.

I was wondering if you had any sources, outright or implied, that there is no benefit by eating more than a kezayis of matzah (as you said)
Thanks

Laskern

I dont understand how that changes simcha613’s excellent post

adocs

I dont really understand slippery slope arguments
“Where do you draw the line? ” So lets draw it at Yom hoshoa. We are big boys we can analyze each step of the slope individually.

Never mind Laskern
I got it.
I couldnt figure out why כמה was in there, I see you need it to make it fit. I though the 2658 somehow represented 29/12/793 which wouldve been more interesting
Seems obvious now, sorry for the question

“nor are hats of any kind”

Are you sure?
Because see shemos 28:2

“Because holy people wear pants. Following the earlier logic, that should make trousers holy.”

sigh, doesn’t everyone wear pants?

ZD
“Vishtas – Understand”
Not in any dialect I’m familiar with. The more common word is “פֿאַרשטיי” or “farshtey”
In context though I got it

akuperma
“Should the real question be, “Is HEBREW SCRIPT” holy?”

now that’s a good question.
Like yiddish I’m still not sure it is “holy” (again because I’m not sure what holy means)
but I’m curious what other posters have to say regarding hebrew script.

I’m curious if anyone says “Hebrew script” is holy but Yiddish isnt and why the distinction (aside from those wh o just have a visceral hatred of Yiddish )

ZD

“If life was so good there why did millions leave? People dont leave Gan Eden”

I’m sorry, you arent making any sense, and you keep replying to strawmen. Nobody said life there was so good. Nobody said everybody in the shtetl was frum (certainly not in the 20th century), nobody said it was “place of tranquility where everyone lived together without being bothered,” (well aside from you).

As for the subject at hand. I never answered the actual question “Is Yiddish holy” simply because I’m not quite sure what holy means. Rishonim explain what makes LAshon Hakodesh holy (has no bad words, was used to create the world) none of which apply to yiddish.
However we do use Kedusha in other senses as well. for example burial places of Tzadikim are reffered to as “mekomos hakedoshim” Of course halachicly they are cemeteries and thus the exact opposite of “kedusha” according to most (all?) poskim it is assur for Kohanim to go to these “mekomos hakedoshim” Concentration camps, are often also included in the term “mekomos hakedoshim” I think the average guy on the street would find it odd to refer to a gas chamber as “holy” but there is something special? sacred? about it, that has (or should have) meaning to us.
Yiddish was the Jewish language for about 1000 years (give or take depending on your source) . That makes it special? sacred? important? How can it not sure it wasnt used exclusivly used for “holy” talk but it was used by holy people, were all of them frum as some posters claim others are claiming, of course not, but as a group it was spoken by the am hanivchar, it is unquestionably a Jewish language, the jews being a holy people, we have consecrated it making it holy (or scared/important/special since I’m not clear on what exactly holy means.

(A few quick points to try to avoid silly responses: note I never said language of all Jews. I never said all Jews were religious (or holy), I never said only Jews spoke it, I dont think the source of the language matters (a cow isn’t holy yet a sefer Torah is), I never said it is more holy/important/sacred than limud torah,)

“will find it in yourselves to realize how your biases and assumptions override your interpretations. ”

Sadly it is hard to overcome, biases, so I will need your help. Care to explain what the correct interpretation of “Yiddish is a relic of a galut” means?

how does “a relic of a galut” not imply that said galut has ended???

Of course a separate issue, that would then need explanation is even if the galut has ended, it seems to me that we SHOULD still l recall the language we once spoke in galut. We can have a yom haatzmaot seder where we open with some yiddish to remind of of the galut we have left behind?
We can point to some cholent (uch! galut food! and how would sefardim feel) and say “dus is di urimeh essen vus inzer elteren huben gegesen in land fin poilin/Lita/Ungarin.”

Much thanks!

“1. Yiddish is a relic of a galut for which there should be zero nostalgia.”

Sadly we are still in galut, as you may know. I assume you will be saying NAchem on Sunday.

“2. All this nonsense about Yiddish being holy is racist – and I am half-Sephardic.”

Thank you for your candor. I knew there was some pathological drive, driving this hangup of yours.

MDG
“Maybe to drive the point home that Yiddish is basically a bad form of German, and no one would call German holy.”
Except it weakens that point, since it doesn’t contribute much and just sounds petty and exposes some underlying pathological hangup that is blinding the possibility of objective discussion. I hear making the point once, twice three times, but at a certain point it is no longer being driven by a desire to “drive home the point” as Avi, to his credit, admitted.

Avi
That wasn’t related to my question.

My question again is “Can you please help me understand your obsession with the term “Creole German” Do you think this makes you sound smart? funny?
Even assuming it is an accurate description, any list of Languages (see google’s list, until recently there was a regents for Yiddish, Wikipedia etc all listed the language by its name not description (accurate or not)”

You seem to really hate yiddish, I’m wondering why.
I get not viewing it as important, let alone “holy” but why the hate?

1. Thursday night
2. It reflects the day. Think of shabbos if that helps. Your claendar labels the seventh day of the week as Shabbos. But you know that in actuality it begins Friday night. If your calendar says Tisha ba’v is Sunday that means it begins Saturday night, the same is true for any day including Rosh chdesh or 1 Av. (with chanukah in particular this can be confusing your calendar probably says Monday 12/3 is the first day of chanukah, though this means that on Monday 12/3 you will light 2 candles,)

“Assimilation was exploding all over Europe ”

i’m sure glad that problem is behind us

Joseph

See the newest Nitei Gavriel on birthdays

I know Know R’ Gavriel Tzinner isnt ehrlich

“For arguments sake. Let’s assume the answer is, “it’s muttar”. Should you? Just because you may, doesn’t mean you must.”

Well for arguments sake, yes you must.
If we dont park there then this avaryan who stole a public parking spot might think he is entitled to it and establish some sort of “chazaka” We must park there to make it clear that this stolen spot is not his.

CG
“I actually suspect from ubiqitin’s “shetikah kehoda’ah” over the last couple days that he does finally understand me.”

No reason to suspect. I said so outright
“Thanks for preserving. I finally get what you are saying your last post was better than your more cryptic earlier posts.
Your conclusion isn’t correct (though I am less certain). But I get what you are saying so thanks.”

I do mean the thanks sincerely.

yitzcokm

“As iacisrmma points out, his neighbor got a permit to create a curbcut driveway the leads to his front yard, ”

I dont know the specifics involved. IF his front yard cannot accommodate “vehicular traffic” (definition of driveway) then it isnt a driveway and anyone can park there. It isnt automatically illegal to block a curbcut (though many cops don’t know this) See NYC.gov’s website regarding regarding T intersections.

frumnotyeshivish
“A lawn is not a fixed obstruction by any reasonable interpretation.”
If it isnt then it isnt. Though if it cant accommodate cars then it is. also note the law says “and used by vehicular traffic” not “can be used”

“Youre ignoring the part where he says that’s yaakov did not learn from Lavan’s ways. This includes his culture.”

I’m not well versed in fake Rashi.

My Rashi says (and I quote)
עִם לָבָן גַּרְתִּי וְתַרְיַ”ג מִצְוֹת שָׁמַרְתִּי וְלֹא לָמַדְתִּי מִמַּעֲשָׂיו הָרָעִים:

Which word are you translating as culture? Note My Rashi doesn’t say “וְלֹא לָמַדְתִּי מִמַּעֲשָׂיו” IT limits it to his bad ways? And how did he avoid learning from his bad ways?

I refer you to the previosu line.

Enjoy your wine tasting

Btw CG

Thanks for preservering. I finally get what you are saying your last post was better than your more cryptic earlier posts.

Your conclusion isn’t correct. But I get what you are saying so thanks.

against

Another attempt

Many wait 6 hours after fleishig to eat milk.
So if you finished eating 12:00 PM you don’t eat milk until 6:00 PM

Say you ate meat on 12/31/16 at 11:00 PM You make a mental note that you can eat milk 6 hours later on 1/1/17 at 5:00 AM.
Well wouldn’t you know it an extra second was added at 23:59:60

This means if you want to be exact about it you will be milchigs on 1/1/17 at 4:59:59 which was 6 hours after 12/31/16 11:00:00.

Again it isnt that anything changed with your minhag of waiting, or your start time. Rather it is that the 6 hours that get added have nothing to do with regulatory agencies.

Now imagine there was some halaca that every 6 hours after meat you had to , say pat your head until you eat meat again. So you eat meat at 11:00 PM and now become vegan, you then pat your head at 5:00 AM, 11:00 AM, 5:00 PM, 11:00 PM etc etc.

when you encounter a leap second, that has no bearing on your halachic obligation to pat your head every 6 hours. Only now the time displayed on your clock is different. so you pat your head at 11:00 PM 12/31/16 followed by 4:59:59 AM on 1/1/17 followed by 10:59:59 etc etc. the 6 hours interval doesnt change, the starting point doesnt change, but we disregard an external change made to the clock display (again although it may be accurate) When another leap second gets added. the head tapping will once again shift to 4:59:58.

Again the starting point and interval between taps isnt changing.

Say 27 leap seconds have been added. and you want to tap your head at the exact second required.
You can no longer say well we last ate meat 11:00 PM 12/31/16 so I just keep adding 6 hours and today I tap my head at 5:00 PM. While that is TECHNICALLY true. If you added 27 leap seconds to your clock. when it is next time for you to tap your head it will read 4:59:33. This is an exact multiple of 6 hours after you last ate meat.

The molad is the exact same thing. It isnt based on any actual natural event (though many assume it is, sure the idea is sort of based on an average but as you may know this changes and is no longer accurate at all, and was never accurate on any given month)). It is simply taking a starting point (BaHaRaD) and adding a regular interval 29-12-793 (or 1-12-793) you will get your molad. However much like our head tappping friend., who is doing the exact same thing, To be precise as that molad relates to the time on your clock, you will need to subtract any leap seconds that have been added).

I hope this example helps, if it makes it worse dont get caught up in it

PArt 2 of 2

I thought my 6 hour posting example was good, clearly not.

I’ll try another approach:

Lets rewind suppose you lived in Yerushalyim in the 1800’s before the advent of standard time. Determining the time to stop kiddush levana was easy. You listened to the molad and added 14 days, 18 hours and 396.5 chalakim. The Molad announced was based on the same clock you had hanging on your wall. So if the molad was announced at Wed eve 6:05 7 chelakim. you added the above and you have until Thurs afternoon 12:27:25 . And until your watch says 12:27:25 on Thursday afternoon 2weeks after the molad you can say kiddush levana (assuming you see it of course).
Now you are somewhat knowledgeable and you know that this time is off from the actual lunar conjunction, but you also know that that is completely irrelevant.
So far so good.

Things get complicated with the advent of Standard time, when 21 minutes (or as you more accurately put it 20 minutes and 56.5 seconds) are added. Now your watch no longer displays the same time that is used to announce the molad. The time announced for the molad DOESNT CHANGE it is still Wed eve 6:05 7 chelakim. Only now you can no longer just look at your watch and say kiddush levana until Thursday afternoon 12:27:25. As your watch is using a different time than the molad. you have to convert your time by subtracting 20 minutes 56.5 seconds and you can only say Kiddush levana until Thursday afternnon 12:06:28 (I’m rounding the half second)
Again this isnt because the change in time has any bearing on the molad. It doesnt. But it does have bearing on the time your watch displays and as it relates to the molad.

Fast forward to the 1970’s onward. More changes are made to the time displayed on your watch. Again not to the molad, the time of the molad satys the same. But the time on your watch is different.

I’ll copy and paste my last paragraph regardign standard time, whih I think you may have understood. Just making relevent changes for leap seconds, which is the EXACT SAME principal
For simplicity in this scenario there is no standard time

Since the 70’s 27 leap seconds have been added. Further changing the time your watch displays as it relates to time that is used to announce the molad. The time announced for the molad DOESNT CHANGE it is still Wed eve 6:05 7 chelakim. Only now you can no longer just look at your watch and say kiddush levana until Thursday afternoon 12:27:25. As your watch is using a different time than the molad. you have to convert your time by subtracting 27 seconds and you can only say Kiddush levana until Thursday afternnon 12:26:58

Of course in reality both come into play and you need to subtract both the change to standard time and leap seconds
giving you until 12:06:01Thursday afternoon.

Of course as I mentioned the practical significance of this is little if any

“Please read my posts more thoroughly before responding.”

Right back at you.
I’ll explain as simply as I can .
Suppose halacha was you have until exactly six hours to reply to this post otherwise this conversation ends.
I am typing this at 8:46 (my local time) that means you have until 2:46 pm. (If you live in Israel you have to adjust for that. So in 6 hours your clock would read 9;46 pm) If your clock is five minutes ahead. You would have until 2:51on your clock (for simplicity sake let’s keep you in my time zone). In other words the halacha wouldn’t change based on what your clock said it is 6 hours after my posting time period. You dont lose 5 minutes because your clock is different than mine
Are you with me so far?

Even if you intentionally set your clock 5 minutes ahead as some do to keep them on time. You still would have 6 hours after 8:46 which on your clock would be 2:51

Even if you did some calculation and determined that all of our clicks are wrong and the real time is 5 minutes later. Halacha still wouldn’t change and you’d have 6 hours after 8:46 (on my mistaken) clock which would be 2:51 on your note accurate clock.
Still with me?

Now lets say instead of you setting your clock ahead it was a regulatory body. And instead of 5 minutes it was 27 seconds.
My time doesn’t change (since the time of the molar isn’t affected by their change) I posted at 8:46:00. But your more accurate clock reads 8:46:27. Six hours after the molad isn’t 2:46:00 (of course it is in halaxhic time but that’s not what your clock days) your clock will read 2:46:27 exactly 6 hours after my post went up at 8:46:00 (halachic time)

A few points
“(29 days, 12 hours, 793 chalakim)/2 from the previous Molad.”
This isnt according to all. The Mechaber says 16 days. The MAgen Avraham understands this to mean you have until the end of the 16th day. The MB understands this to mean meis leis ie 16 x 24 hours from the molad.
Iacrisma is right according to Ashkenazim, as the Remah says it is half of 29 12 793.

“Follow up: Also don’t forget to add an hour during the summer when the clocks are an hour ahead.”

A more important follow up is correcting for where you live.

The molad isnt based on the time that you see on a clock. It is an average molad taken by adding 29 days 12 hrs and 793 chelakim to the previous molad.
The time that is announced in shul is the time that this molad occurs in Yerushalyim real time. today we use standard time. Ie a chunk of the globe ~1/24 the circumfrence all has the same time. In Yerushalyim the molad occured as Iacrisma said “The Molad for Tamuz was Wednesday evening 5 minutes and 7 chalakim after 6. ”
If you were in Yerusahlyim and checked the time on your clock that the molad occured. Your clock read 5:44 and 7 chelakim (Israel standard time is 21 minutes earlier than natural time) due to DST this is 6:44 and 7 chelakim.
In N.Y. which is 7 hours “behind” Yerushalyim, the molad occured when the clock read 11:44 and 7 chalkim on Wednesday morning. Thus there is even less time than iacrisma indicated if you are west of Israel .

(Rabbi Heber argues that leap seconds should be subtraccted as well, though that obviously has little, if any, practical significance)

“Would Trump even have a chance?”

those questions are impossible to answer. while it seems like Trump wouldnt have had a chance, most (including myself) said he didnt have a chance when Obama was president.. Conventional wisdom was a “Republican” who insulted the military, flaunted that which the Religious right held dear, loved big government wouldn’t stand a chance. Yet here we are

to say if only xyz had happened THEN the guy who bragged on tape how he can get away with assaulting women wouldn’t have been elected doesn’t really make sense