ubiquitin

“As far as I know there aren’t any halachic “cons” to wearing blue strings”

Thus conclusively demonstrating that the movie is in fact one sided.

Millhouse are you trolling?
You are just making this up as you go along.
Aren’t you at least curious where all those chickens go? You first say “taken somewhere” now “taken indoors”
There’s no need to guess. Ask and also think. Years past i did it in front of munkatch on 47 st and 14th ave. I’m not sure where you think they went. Not into munkatch that’s for sure. I havent been to 770 though I doubt it gets converted into a shlacht hauz pre Yom kippur.

“but neither do you see piles of shechted chickens waiting to be dealt with. ”

Um yes you do if you care to look.
As I said you can still see them if you like.
Google is your friend.

How long do you think shechted chicken lasts in the sun?
How many times a day are these invisible “regular collections” taking them “somewhere” to be processed? That’s a lot of invisible refrigerated trucks you’re imagining driving around Brooklyn

“This is simply not true. There are no such films. These are bags of ordinary garbage, including some dead chickens.”

Herein lies the real problem.
Because of the motives of many (most? all?) of the anti-kapporas protesters correctly identified by akuperma
We are unable to acknowledge nay fault on our end, or any way that we can improve.

Amil is making what should otherwise be a normal request “But care for those creatures appropriately and knowledgeably. Clean up your mess,” gets attacked. How on earth is that statement even controversial?

I grant that the “activists” hate us, but have we lost our minds?

As for the garbage the vast majority of chickens end up in the garbage, arguably using them for kapporas is still a use and this isnt baal tashcis particularly if as millhouse points out the cost of processing is more than the demand for the chckens
Bu c’mon why deny it one poster says ” “This is simply not true. There are no such films” There are plenty google it they are freely available to see. (Eg see “Trash Bags Full of Dismembered ‘Kaporos’ Chickens Spill Onto Brooklyn Street”)
how often do you see a fridge at a kaporos center. It was 80 degrees last week. how long do people think the chickens shechted in the morning and sit around all day are still edible. cmon think a little
Just because they are anti-semites doesnt mean we have to stick our heads in the sand

Joseph

Humanely means “in a way that shows compassion or benevolence.”
there is no striah between treating animal like animals yet at the same time treating them humanely.

“The bottom line is that you are not driving around town in a computer , phone or an asprin. ”

you are right ! those are so much worse people are inviting these amaleki products into their homes and ingesting amaleki products into their bodies ! This is so much worse than just drivign a car

I guess some people just lack the proper sensitivity

NC
“Yes, thank you. That’s what you, me, and several others have been repeating throughout this thread, ”

Can you please point out where youve said that? The mods may have deleted it for whatever reason, I cant find it. I too am in agreement!

In fact youve said the opposite on several occasions. Youve said that the problem is one of simcha, at times that are supposed to be serious eg “There are times when we’re supposed to have simcha, and then there are times like leil slichos.” (unless you translate simcha as frolicking?)

“We aren’t talking about BMG guys going off the derech if they can’t have slichos parties. These are people already into hippie Judaism and it should go without saying ”
two people are using your (excellent) screen name the other one was right I’ll repost in verabtim, :

“A scarier trend that isn’t getting as much attention is people not making it to Slichos altogether. I’ve now seen multiple places not be able to get a minyan together for slichos. My slate is not totally clean in this regard so I don’t want to sound too much like I’m getting up on a soap box and yelling at the masses. It’s just a scary thought that decades from now selichos could be one of those things like tikkun chatzos that people “used to be careful to say.””

The only question is is it better if in decades people says selichos is something people “used to be careful to say.””
Or
selcihos is something that never had a guitar

(Obviously I’m not saying this applies to all, but as you note it does apply to many)

Joseph
Nobody is changing Judaism. The normal selcihos minyan I went to was full.

NC
“Chassidim didn’t invent nor do they have a patent on simcha.”
No but they too faced opposition for their innovations in Judaism trying to appeal to the masses.

” If you start selling out the Torah in the name of making it more engaging, meaningful, fun ”
I agree, though It is quite a stretch to say singing during selichos even with a guitar is “selling out the Torah”

laskern

feel free to read through the thread. It really isnt confusing,

“It seems quite discusting to say the least watching ”

The solution is simple don’t watch . what goes on behind closed doors is far worse than mere hand touching , if you dont see it it doesnt bother you. so don’t watch this either

Joseph
“It’s also disgusting to see people eat pizza with their bare hands without using utensils.”
utensils are chukas akum and assur

“I’ll repost for the sake of someone with a drop of honesty and sechel hayashar….”

The problem is sometimes a “drop of seichel” isnt enough, and you need to look deeper.

“You take a peek at those clippings and you get such a feeling of nausea”

No you get a feeling of nausea, others get a feeling of wow look at the thirst so many have to draw close to the Ribono shel Olam

“How many people passed away R””L this year, how would they have liked to grab ANY opportunity to push in ONE MORE earnest Tefillah in time….”
Who are you to say this isnt earnest.?

“How would you think the Navi Yirmiyahu would react knowing that his words השיבנו written with such sorrow, such feeling, such holiness, has turned into the songbooks ”

He would be elated! Nearly 3 thousand years later, after all we have been through. People are still trying to follow his message.

” if you don’t know any better, but kindly leave US out of your urges… no need to publicize it.”

did they force you to go?
Then I agree, That’s wrong

Look the bottom line is this, not everyone is motivated by ideas of a petty being who if you don’t get real sorry he’ll get you . If you don’t cry and beg then you will be among those “people passed away R””L this year, how would they have liked to grab ANY opportunity to push in ONE MORE earnest Tefillah in time….”

now some are motivated by that, and thats great! some don’t really connect to the words so they first hear a shmooz to inspire them. (I fall in this category) Although this is also a new innovation (granted not as new as instruments, but probably newer than singing ). and thats great too!

Wolf

It doesnt say “bare arms”

Though I did see a cartoon of a founding father holding up of pair of bear’s arms (as in an animal’s arms) and saying everyone has a right to these , please make that clear

” Yitzcok loved Aisov because he hunted for his mouth, realing loving himself, ”

And yet the Passuk says “ויאהב יצחק את עשו” showing that like in English to Love something doesn’t necessarily exclude self interest.

I

“Because you know that then his buddies will kill you anyways as well as kill thousands of other Jews — immediately.”
Only the Ribono shel olam can no that. There is no question that SOME lives were extended as a result of the uprising. The decision to liquidate the Ghetto was made before the uprising the plan was for the ghetto to be empty by Hitler’s birthday April 20. The uprising lasted longer, and perhaps lives were extended

“And those thousands and thousands of others who were immediately killed did not acquiesce to your taking action that will result in their immediate deaths.”

i’m not sure that enters the chesbon,. By Haba lehargach if in retaliation the intended murderer’s brother will kill 10 Jews, does that mean yo ucant kill the intended murderer? I doubt it. Though would be interested to see sources that say otherwise if you could provide.
And at any rate, the plan was t o kill them anyway, likely sooner if not for the uprising.

joseph
(this is a follow up to my most recent reply hopefully it goes up second, though its shorter so may go up first.)

I am not saying that the only correct approach was armed resistance. (though R’ Ziemba is quoted as having said that). I am in no way criticizing those who did what JEws generally did historically, While I dotn know of any who opposed armed resistance against the Nazis I’m sure there were some and I am not arguing or criticizing them.

I am only explaining the other side to you .

Joseph

Words, have meaning, they have implication you said and I quote “It was clear before it began that it could only result in a massacre of the Jews in the ghetto” The strong implication is that if not for the uprising there wouldnt have been a massacre. I don’t know how else to interpret your words.
I also dont know how you explain that the Jews of say, Lodz shared a similar fate, although there was no uprising. (See if you would read more you would know that)

“what WAS the goal? ”

I quote you again from R’ Ziemba “In the present, however, we are faced by an arch foe, whose unparalleled ruthlessness and total annihilation purposes know no bounds. Halachah demands that we fight and resist to the very end with unequaled determination and valor for the sake of Sanctification of the Divine Name”

Kiddush Shomayim was the goal.
OR to quote Shimshon “Tamus Nafshi im pelishtim” (if you deny R’ Ziemba’s words do you deny Shimshon’s ) There is no chiyuv to be “laag vakeles bagoyim” that is in fact a chilul Hashem. Often in our history there was not much that could be done. OTher times, the benefit of waiting it out outweighed the Kiddush Hashem of showing them that Jewish blood isnt free. But at this juncture “Halachah demands that we fight and resist to the very end with unequaled determination and valor for the sake of Sanctification of the Divine Name”

Joseph

It most definitely is unserious as it isnt based on fact.
and even if it was it wasnt made with the proper sensitivity to the dire circumstances they faced.

IF you had said something along the lines of “with the benefit of hindsight it seems like the uprising was a bad idea” or something like that., you’d be wrong, but at least probably not offensive.
(The reason it isnt based on fact is it isnt like more Jews died in Warsaw than, say Lodz where there was no uprising. Read about the Holocause, read about the Wannsee conference, its not like the NAzis were plnning to leave the ghetto alone until they fought back

At any rate, I was under the impression that you believed in daas torah
R’ Menachem Ziemba Ztzl HYd is quoted as having said

“Sanctification of the Divine Name manifests itself in varied ways….In the past, during
religious persecution, we were required by the law “to give up our lives even for the least
essential practice.” In the present, however, we are faced by an arch foe, whose unparalleled
ruthlessness and total annihilation purposes know no bounds. Halachah demands that we
fight and resist to the very end with unequaled determination and valor for the sake of
Sanctification of the Divine Name”

I know, I know, you dnt believe he said it spare, me as I said you arent being serious.

shopping

“Hashem wants us to be happy, we have a mitzvah to do that every day.”

source please.

” It’s more about the sirens which is a goyish concept.”
Why is it Goyish? Is using a siren to announce the start of Shabbos goyish?

Long Island Yid
“I still haven’t seen anyone here explain why tach vetat is okay to have a separate day for it and not say ‘oh just include it on Tisha Bav”

thats because there isnt one. And the reason chareidim don’t commemorate Yom Hashoa is not because of that fake transparent reason

“Regulations started before Obama. ”

Oh sure they did, but There was more wiggle room than their is now, as far as preexisting conditions goes.

You aspirin example is cute but ignores reality. Once a person is in a hospital for whatever reason, be it emergency or “routine” you are at their mercy. Why would they charge $5 for an aspirin, you cant go down the street to the other hospital.
Furthermore, you cant even find out what the other hospital charges for an aspirin.
Try it.
Take a routine procedure: Child birth, perhaps the number one reason for hospitalization. Most are uneventful leading to a 2 day or so hospitalization. Call your local hospital, tell them you are paying out of pocket and are shopping around for the cheapest place (obviously this isnt an emergency.) Yo uwill not get a straight answer. If you dont want to cal yourself, there are some videos on youtube of this being attempted (though of course they can be fake).

“As a general rule, everything the government touches goes to gehenom.”
Even general rules have exceptions. I assume you agree military is best run by the government, roads, streetlights. etc.

“I also don’t think all employers should have an obligation to provide health insurance – that’s not fair to employers that can’t afford it,”

I agree! Let the government run it this employer run system is absurd

“

“The problem is that prices aren’t published like they are for every other industry, ”

This is Yet another problem. I didn’t mean that my example (which you grant is a valid one with emergencies, though not all encounters).

“Insurance sometimes pays hundreds if not thousands of dollars for routine procedures.”

I’m not sure why “routineness” of a procedure would determine its cost. Can you explain why this is so?

“even for pre-existing conditions.”
Without regulation pre-existing conditions would usually not be covered. nor should they be. Try buying homeowners’ insurance after a house is on fire. It doesn’t even make sense, it isnt really “insurance” at that point.

curiosity
“What we really need is to get government out of healthcare, and let the free market act to create competition to lower costs, like it does in every other sector. ”

The problem is that healthcare is not the same as every other sector. for example, the basic starting points of economics namely supply/demand don’t always apply to Healthcare. It’s not like if Stents become cheaper more people will have heart attacks. Nor can there realistically be a competitive market. In the throes of a heart attack, the patient wont say no drive a little further hospital x is cheaper. This isn’t to mention children, those with preexisting conditions that the “free market” would only lose by helping, which I assume you agree there should be some protection built in.

your question doesnt make sense, We want “a country run by illegal aliens.” in Mexico the illegals arent illegal.

Phase B is once the US gets overrun by illegal immigrants, many will sneak across the border to MExico making Mexico too run over by illegal immigrants.

“I was left with a feeling of overwhelming sadness,”

That is the point. The purpose of Tisha’ Bav IS to feel sad. yo uhave succeeded

“but also the question how to channel that feeling.”

It dopesnt need to be channeled the point is being sad.

Sure if you want yo ucan use that sadness to ensure it doesnt happen again by working on Say, sinas chinam which chazal tell us is wha tled us to thsi mess in the first place.

but this is secondary. Tishaa Bav isnt a day of teshuva. We dont say Selichos, we dont lain vayechol we dont lain dirshu (not in the morning at least), we dont say avinu malkeinu. As chazal say Hashem closed the gates of tefilah.

The point is to be sad and mourn over that which was lost.

AY
“The original Christians were Jews. So, should we “join them” in their celebrations for the sake of some type of “unity” of mankind”

whats with this strange comparison to christians/christmas. do you really not understand the difference between Yom hashoa and christmas? IS that how far removed this strange shita makes people?

Out of curiosity , to you make thsi same false equivalence between joining/following when it comes to joining them in accepting government funds, or is that a special exception?

“that this observance during the month of Nissan is not acceptable. The Israeli govt. declared it for that date, to fit their agenda — that it would always fall during the week before Israel independence day.”

The first part is nonsense the second is correct.
A big chunk of klal yisroel spends 27 nissan scratching their faces and avoiding music in mourning over R’ Akiva’s Talmidim. but to hear some speeches and a siren, …. no its nissan No mourning!
The second part is the real reason

dovid
“No, I’m making an analogy by using another example of abandoning halachah for the sake of “achdus with our fellow Jews “.”

Ummm, how is yom hashoa, “abandoning halacha” ?

don’t tell me what I’m going to say, as it is easy to prove you wrong again by not saying it.

No, I am showing you that your statement “nor are hats of any kind [holy]” is demonstrably false. Thus callign into question your expertise in analyzing Holiness and certainly calling into question your ability t olabel others “an ignoramus of unbelievable proportion who neither comprehends kedusha”

Some hats are in fact holy. That does not make all hats or even all such hats holy. I’m not quite sure how you came to that wrong conclusion

” Adding a separate memorial day for the 20th century holocaust dilutes the significance of Tisha B’Av for many people, ”

I dont follow, does observing the yahrtzeit of one’s mother dilute the significance of one’s father’s yahrtzit?
They are 2 tragedies both were terrible and we commemorate both why does a commemoration for the Holocaust dilute that of the churban?