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helpful pointed out that there is a preference for married people in some inyanim. you can apply it or not apply it where you choose.
And I pointed out that there is a preference* for kohanim in some inyanim. What if I choose to apply it to posting in the Coffeeroom?
In other words, just because one type is preferred in one situation does not make it valid to apply that same preference in any situation — at least not without stating the commonality between the two cases that makes them comparable.
The Wolf
* Granted, the example I chose above is not a preference but a requirement — but there are enough other areas where we give deference to kohanim that one can easily make the same argument.
I remember you said in another thread that you had a beautfiful silver megilah case and instead you used a ziplock bag.
That’s right. I won a megillah at a Chinese Auction quite a while back. With it came a large silver case, with bells. Aside from the fact that the case was far too large for the megillah itself, it was far too ostentatious and showy for me.
Since I don’t like things that I consider ostentatious, I never used the case and instead did carry it around in a Ziploc bag for a few years, until my in-laws bought me a simple wooden case (which I use today).
Apparently hiddur mitzvah means nothing to you.
I wasn’t aware that it was a hiddur to use something that I personally find distasteful. If you have something to the contrary that says that it is, please cite it.
The Wolf
There is an inyan that only a married person should daven for the amud on the yomim noraim. So there is a legitimate thing about limiting things to only a married person in certain inyanim.
There is an inyan that only a kohen should perform a pidyon haben. So there is a legitimate thing about limiting things to only a kohen in certain inyanim.
As you can see, you can apply your logic to almost anything. The real question to ask, is this one of those inyanim? If you believe it to be the case, please state why and how.
The Wolf
charliehall does not have even an inkling of who Rashi is.
How about, if instead of an ad hominem, you actually address his points and show us where you think he’s wrong?
The Wolf
It depends on the maturity level of your kid.
Some might be mature enough to be responsible at 17. Others may never be mature and responsible enough.
In short, know your kid and focus on his/her maturity and not his/her age*.
The Wolf
(*Subject to local law, of course)
I don’t have any of those gaming systems and am not terribly familiar with them, so I don’t have anything to say about them.
My idea of some good gaming systems include Settlers of Catan, Caylus, Power Grid, Alhambra, Wealth of Nations, I’m The Boss, Management Material, Scrabble, Pente, backgammon and the like. 🙂
The Wolf
Meh. I personally don’t like ostentatious displays for myself, but I’m not going to tell someone else what to do with their hard-earned money. If someone wants to use a fancy gold becher, or a large silver menorah, I have no real objections. I would never use them, but I’m not going to impose my personal tastes on others.
The Wolf
while in EY they’re completely lost if they can’t slap a label onto themselves. It’s sad, but it’s the truth.
It saddens me very much to hear that. No one’s life (or ability to lead a normal life) should have to depend on their slapping a label on themselves.
The Wolf
Just out of curiosity:
For those who hold that Thanksgiving is a religious holiday because the proclamation mentions God, would you also hold that Independence Day is also a religious holiday?
The Declaration of Independence makes mention of God a few times as well, including in the opening paragraph:
and in the closing paragraph:
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of the divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
So, why is Thanksgiving forbidden to celebrate, but Independence Day is okay?
The Wolf
Wolf: Re your long post; why do you not consider yourself mo?
I don’t want to go into it in length, but suffice it to say that there are some elements of the MO camp that make me uncomfortable. The same applies to other camps as well. Perhaps that’s why I don’t self-identify with any group.
I also notice you describe your wife as covering her hair in order to differentiate yourself from the mo,
No, that’s *not* why she chooses to cover her hair, nor did I ever say that it was the reason. She covers her hair because she believes it’s the right thing to do — finished. She couldn’t care less about labels such as MO, chareidi and the like. She follows the mehalech we both agreed to when we were going out — it has nothing to do with any particular “camp” that we belong to.
I’d rather not address this here, since it’s not germane to the topic, but suffice it to say, telling your kids “It’s okay to ask questions, but you’d better have these answers at the end of the day” is not allowing someone to think critically. And it’s not just chareidim — virtually all branches of Orthodox Judaism (including many in the MO camp too) have the same issue.
But that said, I don’t want to take this thread off course, so I’m not going to answer any further questions about this last point in this thread — so please don’t ask.
The Wolf
that the reason those tana’im and all the earlier great people were not referred to as rabbi is because they were so great they did not need a title, as their name alone elicits respect.
That’s correct… but that was no longer true by Ben Azzai’s and Ben Zoma’s time. They were contemporaries of Rabbi Akiva (who clearly used the title “Rabbi”).
The reason Ben Zoma and Ben Azzai are not known as Rabbi Shimon (they were both named Shimon) Ben Azzai/Ben Zoma is because they did not earn semicha.
The Wolf
The Wolf
Wolf: The CC is not as exceptional on this issue as you may think. He has much company on this point.
Whatever. That’s not the main point.
The main point is that I object if people call *me* “Rabbi.” Do you object to that?
The Wolf
Myfriend,
The CC may well be the “exceptional circumstance” I was talking about*. And I’m sure you didn’t mean to insult the Chofetz Chaim by comparing him to me. 🙂
The Wolf
* In fact, when I posted about this on my blog a few months back, I made the following statement:
“I suppose one could make the case for an “honorary” rabbi for someone who is clearly a gadol but has, for whatever reason never received semicha, but I clearly do not fall into that class.”
why are people who DO NOT have smicha called rabbi? there are places where, as soon as a man gets married, everything that comes addressed to him says rabbi. is that all it takes to get smicha?
I am also very much against this. If anyone calls me “rabbi” I correct him or her and insist that they either call me by my first name or use “Mr….” I likewise do not open mail addressed to “Rabbi…” that arrives at my home.
In fact, this past summer, a fellow (whom I don’t know) greeted me on Friday night by addressing me as “rabbi.” I told him that I don’t know who he’s talking to as I am not a rabbi and there was no one else present. But okay, perhaps since he didn’t know me he was trying to err on the side of courtesy. I can understand that. Nonetheless, after I made the point that I wasn’t a rabbi, he insisted on defending his action by saying that today “everyone’s a rabbi.”
I took umbrage at the idea, since I feel that if “everyone’s a rabbi” then the title is meaningless. In addition, I feel that calling non-rabbis “rabbi” is an insult (even if not intended as such) to all those who have put in the hard work and effort to actually earn the honorific. To award it to everyone demeans the title.
My greeter then replied that the title was already demeaned. My response to that was “so why demean it further?” To further prove my point, I mentioned the Tanaim Ben Azsai and Ben Zoma. The reason they are not called “Rabbi Shimon ben Azzai” and “Rabbi Shimon ben Zoma” is simply because they did not earn the title — they never earned smicha*. That’s not to say that Ben Azzai and Ben Zoma weren’t brilliant chachamim — they certainly were. But due to other circumstances in their lives, they never earned smicha, and so were never given the title “Rabbi.” If Ben Zoma and Ben Azzai were never given the title because they did not formally earn ordination, then I, certainly, should not be given the title.
To that he had no response, and we simply agreed to disagree. But I remain firm in my conviction. Barring some exceptional circumstances, I believe the title of Rabbi should be reserved for those who have earned it — and those ranks do not include me.
The Wolf
* Yes, there were tanaim who did not use the title “rabbi” (such as Hillel and Shammai), but they lived before the title came into popular use. Ben Azzai and Ben Zoma were contemporaries of Rabbi Akiva — by whose time the title was clearly in use.
Sneeze into your hands right before they extend theirs… 🙂
The Wolf
(Before someone starts yelling at me — yes, I’m kidding)
Yanky,
Were that the issue, would there not be a problem with *any* Yom Tov falling on Friday or Sunday. After all, one is not allowed to bury a body on Yom Tov* either.
We could live 2 days with total issur milacha if we had to….
Do you really think you could have gone two days without cooking in a world without refrigerators, supermarkets and the like? I’m not so certain.
The Wolf
* Of course, we’re talking about the first day of Yom Tov only.
Actually in a recent artical (Mishpacha Kulmas) it said that the rules of LO ADO ROSH is to prevent Yom Kippur from falling on Friday and Sunday so that there wouldn’t be two days of (total) issur malacha in a row, and also that HaShana Rabba should not fall on Shabbos.
Yes, I knew that the calendar is also jury-rigged to prevent a Yom Kippur Sunday and a Hoshanna Rabba Shabbos. I specifically only mentioned Yom Kippur and Friday because the thread is about fast days on Friday.
The Wolf
As long as we’re on this, it should also be noted that there will be no 10 Teves in 2011.
The Wolf
I remember it happening about 10-15 years ago.
It happens because 10 Teves is the only fast day that can fall out on a Friday. The calendar is jury-rigged to prevent Yom Kippur from falling out on a Friday. The others aren’t a matter of jury-rigging — they just don’t fall out on those dates.
The Wolf
I’ve got to agree. I’m pretty adventurous when it comes to trying out new recipes, but sometimes the names just plain scare me. 🙂
The Wolf
I’ve got to agree. Heck, I wouldn’t let my *17* year old go on a Florida vacation without adult supervision… and he’s a pretty responsible kid.
The Wolf
I could set you up with a giant slingshot or catapault for very little. Just be prepared for a bumpy landing. 🙂
The Wolf
Next thing you will tell me is that you don’t drink wine, and can’t enjoy a good steak.
While I have never been drunk in my life, I can say that I do enjoy wine and steak. Sorry to disappoint. 🙂
The Wolf
To the tune of the Meow Mix commercial:
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow
The Wolf (who is not a cat and does not eat Meow Mix)
Chesedname,
I’ll tell you what… I’d like to bury the hatchet, especially since I conceded to you on the main point on which we were arguing in the other thread (re: cooking on Yom Tov). There’s no point in your being upset over my words when I conceded the point and I doubt you *really* meant it when you called me an apikorus for self-esteem issues anyway.
So let’s try to bury the hatchet and be civil with each other. If you want to discuss some of our issues in private via email (which, in fact, I would prefer), I authorize the mods to give you the email address that I have registered on these boards (although you could probably find it on your own if you wanted).
This doesn’t mean we have to agree on everything (or anything), of course. But I’m sure we can disagree with each other respectfully and civilly without resorting to name calling and other insults.
So, how about it? Bury the hatchet (and not in each other’s necks)?
The Wolf
Mosherose,
I’ll tell you what. Wait until you get married. Then wait another two years. After you’ve been married about two years, then come back and tell us if you still believe that the happiness of a wife and/or husband in marriage is not important.
The Wolf
Wolf, the Tora says that if you DON’T eat blood (“shenafsho shel odom kotzoh bo”) you gain eternal reward for yourself and your descendants… I’d assume the same rule applies here…
Bad example. Have you ever seen a wolf kasher his kill before eating it? 🙂
The Wolf
the generally more makil crowd is taking the side of Assur
I’m assuming (if I’m wrong, please feel free to correct me) that you put me in this group.
If so, I’d like to clarify. I don’t think that it’s assur. Just because I won’t do it does not mean that I believe the action to be forbidden. I just believe that there are too many variables for me to take into account, so I’m just better off without. But that’s a far cry from saying that it’s forbidden.
The Wolf
Why not both?
Having kids earn money is a great way to teach them the value of a dollar and will give them their first lessons on how to handle money — a skill they will desperately need when they grow up.
Allow her to earn money. Tell her that a portion of the money (the exact percentage to be decided between you and her) has to be put away and the rest can be used as she likes (subject, of course, to your house rules).
Kids who earn money need to have the enjoyment of spending some of it — if not, they’ll simply stop doing it and then have nothing saved in the bank.
The Wolf
G@W,
What do you call the one who doesn’t like turkey to begin with and therefore doesn’t have the schar of resisting the temptation to have turkey on Thanksgiving? 🙂
The Wolf
Rambam and Chasidus was accepted as 100% legit by all Gedolim of subsequent doros. MO was not.
Easy to say that hundreds of years after the fact. It took quite a while for the Rambam and Chassidus to be “accepted as 100% legit,” sometimes even a century or two. How do you know that MO won’t be “accepted as 100% legit” hundreds of years from now?
The Wolf
Perhaps its hard to believe in a place outside of Bklyn, but those of us in Brooklyn ARE strict in our kosher observances.
Are you sure, Helpful? I think some might say that the avir of chutz l’brooklyn causes people to be nichshol in kashrus. 🙂 :p
The Wolf
<
Male Wolf 🙂I’m in the same boat as Mod-80 on this. While it’s not something I would do myself, I would never castigate someone else who does it — much like my opinion on the Flatbush Eruv.
The Wolf
Modern Orthodoxy is just one of those 70. Treat it as such.
I’ve found that some people view of derachim in yiddishkeit is like Henry Ford’s view regarding choice of color in the Model-T.
The Wolf
this is a good example of what separates a ben torah from a apikoros.
Let me get this straight… to you, someone is an apikorus if they do they do something that they don’t know is forbidden, or if there are other authorities who permit it?
Oh, right… you’re the one who said I was an apikorus because I don’t have a positive self-image. I’m *still* not sure which one of the ikkarim that violates. Or this, for that matter.
The Wolf
QuestionForYou,
A simple question: You call Thanksgiving a religious holiday because Washington and Lincoln decided to mention God in the proclamations. This, according to your reasoning, makes it a religious holiday and therefore forbidden to celebrate. (Please correct me if I’m wrong in my assessment of your position.)
That being said, do you refrain from handling United States currency because it says “In God We Trust.” Perhaps the money should be forbidden as idolatrous objects?
Why does the mention of God in the Thanksgiving proclamations make Thanksgiving idolatrous in nature, but the mention of “In God We Trust” on the money does not make it idolatrous in nature?
The Wolf
and anyone with semicha is not Daas Torah.
Paint with a broad brush much?
He uses academic methodologies, not halachic ones in his essays.
The methodologies are not as important as the results. Once again, I ask you to show me where he was wrong.
The Wolf
Myfriend,
how about actually answering cantoresq’s point.
IOW, if you have a problem with Rabbi Brodye’s opinion on the matter, how about showing us where he’s wrong.
The Wolf
EDITED
Guy and girl are dating. Guy says to girl – you know, my dream in life is to learn for at least 5 years after we are married – how do you feel about that? Girl says – there is nothing I would like better, I’ll work, I’ll live simply, I’ll eat bread and water, I’ll never buy new clothing, It would be my greatest zechus to support your Torah. So they get married. And he learns for a year. And suddenly girl finds out that she does not like working, she would rather stay home with her baby. And she does not like being poor. And bread and water don’t taste good. And she really would like a new sheitel. So she asks her husband to go out to work. And maybe he does and maybe he doesn’t. But my question here is – WHO IS THE VICTIM?
It doesn’t matter.
The bottom line is that the wife is not happy. Yes, she may well have agreed to five years, but now, after one year, for whatever reason she is not happy.
I suppose you might be in your rights to tell her to “suck it up” as she agreed to this. But, in reality, all that’s likely to do is lead to four years of marital hell for this couple as the wife’s resentment continues to build for the next four years. You might even be right in arguing that she has no such grounds for resentment, as she agreed to it — but you can’t legislate emotions and feelings. In all likelihood, if she’s really unhappy now after one year, she’s likely to grow more and more miserable as the next four years wear on.
It’s nice to look back and say “this is what we agreed on…” but the current reality is that things have changed and the husband and wife have to deal with each other based on the current reality.
This couple needs to find a rav (and, possibly, a marital therapist) to determine where to go from here. Holding her to the letter of her agreement may well spell the end of the marriage before the five years are up.
The Wolf
Thanksgiving, a day to eat turkey and watch football. Atheists love it.
I guess I’m in trouble no matter what, then. I don’t eat turkey and I’m not a football fan.
The Wolf
It should be noted that the Thanksgiving proclamation noted above from 1676 has the celebration happening in June, not November.
I am not convinced that that Thanksgiving celebration has anything to do with the current one. Certainly there were times that Christians had celebrations of giving thanks at various points in their history. Just because one group at one time had such a feast doesn’t mean that (a) it is related to the modern day incarnation of the holiday and (b) that it is forbidden for Jews to do so.
Washington’s proclamation of Thanksgiving was, likewise, a one time event. Thanksgiving was actually instituted as an American holiday by Abraham Lincoln in 1863 and has been observed each year since then. The indication of the Christian deity in his proclamation is where he identifies the year of the proclamation, using the phrase “year of our Lord..,” which was merely common usage without any actual religious significance at the time.
Recognition of the holiday by the Roman Catholic church (or any other for that matter) is beside the point. If the RC church decided to recognize Independence Day tomorrow, would you tell everyone to stop flying their flags?
The Wolf (who doesn’t eat turkey on Thanksgiving — or any other day simply because he doesn’t like it.)
EDITED
There’s a certain (delicious) irony in the fact that in a thread about dumping labels, the discussion has turned to how to define one of those very labels.
The Wolf
although you know that someone else wants what you want, can’t Hashem satisfy everyone?
I never said otherwise.
The Wolf
WIY,
It’s a nice notion, but all you’re doing is shifting the question of “what is your label” to “do you fit the definition of a Torah Jew?” Is a Zionist a “Torah Jew?” Is an anti-Zionist? Is someone who works instead of learning full-time? Is someone who doesn’t spend every free minute learning? Is someone who doesn’t wear a hat and jacket in the street (forget davening for the moment)? Is someone who wears blue shirts? And on and on and on…
While dumping labels is a good idea (one which I wholeheartedly support), in the end, by framing it as you did (“are you a Torah Jew?”) you haven’t really accomplished what (I believe) the main goal of dropping labels is in the first place — to promote achdus in K’lal Yisroel.
The Wolf
I’ve used both. Both were very professional and I have no complaints about either.
The Wolf
The way I pronounce ayin, I don’t see how it will make a difference.
To me, that’s further proof that the proper way to pronounce the ayin is with a sound.
The Wolf
oh yeah, right
both the /f/ and /v/ sounds are fricatives.
😉
🙂 — okay so I’m not consistently consistent. 🙂
The Wolf
How about just doing whatever will make the two of you happy?
The Wolf
PATACH GENUVA.
Yeah, I knew that. However, I find that if you start getting too technical, people’s eyes begin to glaze over*, so I try to avoid such terms when possible.
(of course, the most commonly mispronounced one) Meelifney Elo-AH Yaakov in Hallel.
That’s the one I was referring to in my previous post. 🙂
The Wolf
* You’d be amazed that I can see eyes glaze over through a message board. 🙂