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I was walking on a street in lakewood when I saw two small boys run into the street-one father took his son and gave him a good potch while the other just ignored it-when it came to the next street the boy who got the potch waited for his father while the other ran into the gutter again.
And so? Do you contend that this means that potching is good? Bad? Doesn’t matter?
The Wolf
what do you think?
Never on a Wednesday, the fourth of August. (You did ask about today, no?)
The Wolf
a curse?, CvS!
Being related to me may well be one of the worst curses ever inflicted upon any human being. Trust me, you don’t want to be related to me any closer than you have to be.
The Wolf
cuz then we wouldn’t be allowed to breathe and chew normaly because that is also how the goyim do it!
Technically, I suppose pikuach nefesh would override chukas hagoy in that instance.
The Wolf
i wonder if we’re related
Don’t curse yourself in such a manner.
The Wolf
Eeees and I have a close relative whom we sometimes call “Mo.” She was a pre-school teacher (a Morah) at one time and the shortened version of it stuck.
The Wolf
very funny Wolf. Your first name is the??
Obviously.
The Wolf
no its chukas hagoyim
I don’t get your question. Are you asking it based on a tznius angle or on a chukas hagoyim angle?
In any event, I know that pointing this out will only brand me as a heretical unbeliever, but non-Jews also wear shirts with sleeves. And hats. And socks. And ties. Perhaps we should dispense with those as well?
Nonetheless, if you think they aren’t tznius or are in violation of chukas hagoy (however you came to that conclusion) then, by all means, don’t wear them.
The Wolf
It’s interesting that in this respect (like many others in my life) I find myself neither here nor there.
I became frum at the age of 9 when my mother became frum.
As such, I certainly can’t claim to be FFB. I certainly remember my non-frum life and (for worse AND better) it has helped to shape me into who and what I am today.
Likewise, I can’t take the “moral credit” for actually being a BT, since it’s not as if I had some “moral awakening” that chose me to choose a frum lifestyle. As such, I can’t be considered a true “Ba’al Teshuva” (in the context in which it’s used in this discussion) either.
So, once again, I’m neither here nor there in life — neither comfortable nor entirely welcome in either camp.
The Wolf
the “talking” thing was a joke. you made a typo and wrote talking instead of taking.
Oh. I completely missed that.
The Wolf
also i dont recall that he has to talk with her all the way to his house, i thought taking her was sufficient. do you have a source?
No, and perhaps you’re right. The point, nonetheless, is that n’suin, whatever the technical details, can be done with a minimum of two eidim. Not everyone has to see n’suin for it to be 100% valid. It could be done in private after the wedding (which the bride need not attend).
The Wolf
(Note: Just to make clear — I’m NOT advocating this. I don’t know of anyone who advocates not having the bride at the wedding. No one to my knowledge, no matter how “frum” does this. The point I’m making is that the idea of Tznius does NOT trump all public appearances. Just as it can be perfectly valid for a bride to be at a wedding, so too can a girl be at other functions that are valid. *If* you posit a bas mitzvah to be a valid function, there is no problem with her being there and it’s not a “violation” of the concept of tznius, anymore than a bride being in a distinctive gown and the center of attention at a wedding.)
im not so sure erusin can be done through schlichus though.
It absolutely can. Perhaps you’re thinking of n’suin?
That can be accomplished by just having two eidim watch him picking up the girl from her father’s house and talking her to his house.
The Wolf
To me, it seems a bit paradoxical to celebrate mitzvas tznius with a public ceremony. Can you please explain?
You could make the same argument, I suppose, about a wedding. There’s no reason the bride has to dress up in a fancy distinctive gown and be the center of attention. In fact, she doesn’t even have to be there at all. A kiddushin via a shliach is 100% kosher.
The Wolf
Eldad and Meidad were BAD GUYS!
No, they were nevi’im. Go back and check your chumash again.
The Wolf
The Rosh Yeshiva of my Beis Midrash was named Zevulun.
About twenty years ago, I was working in an office and picked up the phone. The person asked for my boss. When I asked his name, he said “Moshiach.” I said, “excuse me, what did you say?” He said “Just tell your boss that Moshiach is calling.”
Okay.
So I put the caller on hold, walked to my boss’s office and said “I know this is going to sound strange, but Moshiach is on the phone for you.”
It turns out that that was his name.
The Wolf
At the risk of asking a silly question — what qualifies as “Jewish music” for the purpose of this thread?
If the music is taken from a non-Jewish source but the words are completely different, is it still “Jewish music?”
What if both the words AND the idea are taken from non-Jewish sources, with just the specific names/incidents changed to have a Jewish feel — does that count as Jewish music?
The Wolf
a bunch of misers in the cr apparently
🙂
The Wolf
No sarcasm in that post.
The Wolf
It’s not really a matter of dispute.
The person described is a talmud of R. Yehoshua ben Perachia. RYBP lived about two hundred years (give or take a decade or two) before Pontius Pilate. If it is to be assumed that the authors of the Christian Bible got that detail right (and it’s hard to imagine that when the Gospels were written they made an error of three centuries only a single century after the events described).
Likewise, the number of disciples doesn’t match the Gospel story, nor the method of execution nor any of the other major details of the story.
If so, then you’re left with several possibilities:
1. The Christian Bible is utterly wrong about Pontius Pilate, the crucifixion, the apostles, Herod and almost everything else (we’re talking historically, not theologically, of course) in the details of the story. I find this to be highly unlikely. While certainly some of the details may be wrong, I find it hard to believe that so many historical errors could happen.
2. The identification as a student of RYBP is wrong and he was really the talmid of a later tanna. Possible, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume it’s not.
3. The Christian censors assumed the person mentioned in the Gemara is the subject of the Christian Bible and censored the Talmud without any serious investigation. As the years went on, we applied the identification of this person to the subject of the Christian Bible. (That’s my personal take on the matter.)
The Wolf
hes in the Gemorrah
Debatable. If it’s really him, then the timing is off and the whole Pontius Pilate story is false. In addition there are significant differences between the person mentioned in the Gemara and the person who is the subject of the Christian Bible.
I’m more inclined to believe that it’s a case of mis-identification.
The Wolf
wolf what is that emoticon
Evil smile. (with the eyebrows pointed down). It’s used when one knows that one is being bad. 🙂
The Wolf
FWIW, we had a small bas mitzvah for our daughter in the basement of a shul (doubles as a party room). We invited some friends, had milchigs, some taped music and my daughter gave a d’var torah. Not a big fancy affair, but something meaningful to mark her passage into adulthood.
The Wolf
Heh heh. Thinking of the things that would cause some people’s heads to explode.
Such as not only having a kiddush in shul for a Bas Mitzvah — but at the same time, she makes a siyum on a seder mishnayos. >:)
The Wolf
Ben,
I’m confused. Do you expect to be the victim of governmental antisemitism when you get to Israel?
The Wolf
American history is surely bittul Torah. For that there is no excuse. Assur lchol hadeios.
Obviously not “l’chol hadeios” as there are schools that do teach it willingly.
The Wolf
“an apikorus and a rasha!” 🙂 “
Fair enough. But there *are* those who do believe that.
The Wolf
An ax to grind with us black hatters
No ax. I have no problem with people who want to wear a black hat. My son wears one and it’s perfectly fine with me. My other son doesn’t — and that’s also fine with me.
The Wolf (who, for the record, does not own an ax)
The only reason for switching to a secular name is so that people don’t scratch their head in bafflement whenever they hear it. I want people to focus on me and not get sidetracked with my “strange” name. Adopting the name Phineas is unlikely to improve things much.
Fair enough.
Phineas, however, IS the Anglicized form of Pinchas. If you’re not looking for the Anglicized equivalent, then feel free to choose any “P” name — Phillip, Peter and Paul all come to mind as names of Jews that I either know or related to.
The Wolf
I know plenty of people that “don’t have a tv” and keep up with the latest shows in the internet.
I know plenty of those people too. I also know plenty of people who have a TV but keep it hidden in a closet away from the eyes of guests and who will deny having it to all but their closest friends.
The Wolf
showed that you are much more learned
I don’t think knowing the location of a well-known Mishna qualifies as “much more learned.”
The Wolf
its also in Pirkei Avos
Is it? I don’t believe so (although I could be wrong).
We say it as a preface to learning Avos, but I don’t recall that Mishna actually being in Avos.
The Wolf
Any good secular interpretations for Pinchas? Secular jews and non-jews have the hardest time pronouncing it!
Phineas?
The Wolf
My parents weren’t frum when I was born*, and hence I have an English name and a Hebrew name.
As I grew up, I found that there were discrepancies in what people thought their Hebrew names were and what they actually were (including my father — from the time I was 13 until I got married at 21, I was called up to the Torah as X ben Y — but it turned out that my father’s name was Z, not Y).
In order to prevent any such confusion for the future generations, my kids have only Hebrew names. If they (or any future generations) have any doubts as to what their names are, all they have to do is look at their birth certificates.
The Wolf
* I can hear some of you now saying “Ah, that explains it. He’s a ben niddah. That’s why he’s an apikorus and a rasha!” 🙂
Thats easy – Its the opening line of each week’s Pirkei Avos. We all have a chelek. Its part of our contract.
Actually, it’s a Mishna in Sanhedrin. But that’s beside the point.
Tell that to Yeravam. Or Achav. Or Deog.
Clearly the Mishna is talking about people who don’t otherwise lose it. Otherwise, the rest of the Mishna is meaningless.
The Wolf
American history is surely bittul Torah. For that there is no excuse.
So is posting in the Coffeeroom.
IOW, even if you excuse your posting in the CR as “taking a break” (which is certainly allowed if it will allow you to continue learning with fervor later on), then what is wrong with learning American History (or any other subject for that matter) during the break?
The Wolf
Wolf – I agree with BP Totty. Perhaps they somewhat are more analogous than you realize. Just like you won’t get anymore sunburn if you leave the sun (even if you don’t regret), you won’t lose the future olam haboah you earn after you rid your home of the TV.
How do you know that I have any future Olam Habah? You’re making an unwarranted assumption.
The Wolf
But when Tzedaka is required to PAY for the overspending of others, because people feel they can’t make anything less, that goes way beyond the line.
You’re right. Going back, I see that I misread/misinterpreted your words. My apologies.
The Wolf
Perhaps. But you’ve made step 2. Plus, getting out of the sun, (while you may not regret being out in the 1st place)will still protect you from a sunburn
True… but the cases aren’t really analogous.
I rarely go head to head with you, but when you talk down about yourself, that cannot go unchalleged.
Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. — Sir Winston Churchill
The Wolf
My first name is very uncommon. It’s the same as Atilla the Hun’s middle name.
The Wolf
when our dollars go towards “tzedaka” that ends up paying for others to have Lavish weddings
I don’t mean to defend gross overspending and lavishness, but you do realize that when a person overspends on a wedding (and uses goods and services obtained in the community), he ends up creating business opportunities for people in the community, right? It’s easy to say “forgo the photographer* at the wedding…” but then you’re just depriving the photographer of a job.
IOW, buying goods and services in the community — even when “overspending” on “lavish” items *reduces* the need for tzedaka and makes us better off financially.
The Wolf
* Please — don’t go on about my example about how people need photographs — if so, then put some other expense in there instead. And please don’t go one and state that I’m defending photographers because I am one. I’m strictly amateur and have never gotten paid a penny to take a single picture.
Wolf-my turn to apologize
No problem. My apologies for misunderstanding you.
The Wolf
Someone asked me, “what’s wrong?”
Before I could answer a 3rd person said “a yid cries by davening and we wonder whats wrong? We should all cry by davening. WE (those of us who daven like we’re reading a grocery shopping list) are the ones who have somwthing “wrong” with them.
Nonetheless, since the vast majority of us don’t cry by davening (whether that’s bad or not is really immeterial), asking if everything was okay by you was, IMHO, justified and a sign of caring.
The Wolf
What I took your comment to mean (as I think you intended it) was that someones actions (like davening loudly) may have a negative impact on me (getting punched in the face).
You were clear; I was not
Nope… I guess I wasn’t clear.
There is a saying that goes: “Your right to swing your fist ends at my face.” IOW, you’re free to do what you like, as long as you don’t interfere with me. It has nothing to do with negative impacts — it’s just a moshol. I was just using the saying as a basis for my next statement — that your right to daven loudly ends when it interferes with someone else’s davening.
The Wolf
There is really no need for some of these comments. All Max well did was quote somebody-he didn’t make it up. Otherwise it sounds as if you are bashing R’ Avigdor Miller.
I did not bash R. Miller. I challenge you to show me where in this thread I did so. I may disagree with what he says sometimes (and I didn’t do that in this thread either), but to bash him? Never.
I certainly have my faults, but that isn’t one of them.
The Wolf
One who has lost his chelek in olam haboa, can re-earn it.
Like Rav Miller zt”l says, take the TV and throw it out the window.
Alas, I cannot do teshuva. Even if I throw my TV out of the window, I still don’t regret having one. Hence I’m missing the first, essential step of teshuva.
Besides, I’m fairly certain that I lost my Olam Habah long before I had a TV. My getting rid of a TV to restore my Olam Habah is like trying to bail out the Titanic with an eyedropper.
The Wolf
One who has lost his chelek in olam haboa, can re-earn it.
Did I lose my chelek in Olam Habah for suggesting that his right to daven loudly ends at someone else’s expense? 🙂
The Wolf
In addition, the OP did not tell us if this was a one-time occurrence of if he does this every day. If it’s one-time, then I agree that perhaps it’s best to let it pass. If, OTOH, it’s a regular occurrence, then it should be addressed.
The Wolf
To quote: “No question, anybody who has a TV in his house should know beforehand that his life is wasted. He has no chelek L’Olam Haboa. No question at all about it.”
Well, since my life is wasted and I know that I have no chelek in Olam HaBah (something I suspected well before you put up that quote anyway) now I can truly serve HKBH as a servant al m’nas shelo lekabel pras.
The Wolf
A punch in the nose? Hm, you have a point. Ok, let me say it a different way.
Perhaps you misunderstood. I wasn’t advocating hitting him. I was merely pointing out that one has the right to daven loudly up to the point where it disturbs other people.
My apologies if that wasn’t clear.
The Wolf