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Leizor,
You yourself said earlier that the gifts aren’t what’s important but rather that you feel loved/wanted.
Let me ask you… if you find some way to “force” your in-laws to give you a watch, will that make you feel more loved or wanted? I don’t think so. IOW, even if you get your watch, you’re not going to get what you’re *really* after. So why potentially jeopardize your marriage over it?
The Wolf
all im asking for is a watch am i being too greedy
Take the advice of a long-married person… don’t fight for the watch. It’s just not worth it. The potential loss is far-greater than the possible gain.
The Wolf
can anyone help me out in the gift department please
What, exactly, are you looking for? Someone to find a way to force your future in-laws to give you gifts?
The Wolf
i’m serious i am a chosson and im getting no gifts at all.
Then your choices are very clear — what’s more important to you — the gifts or the girl?
If the gifts are more important to you, then by all means break off the engagement. If the girl is more important to you, then ask yourself whether it’s worth the shas and watch to begin a family war that will likely last for years. IMHO, it’s NEVER worth it.
You’re already getting the most important thing in the world — your future wife. Anything else besides that should be viewed as gravy — nice if you get it, but still fine even if you don’t.
The Wolf
y
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The Wolf
i still remember voting for fdr’s first term…
And I remember voting for Millard Fillmore.
The Wolf
i feel bad that i am getting no gifts whatsoever.
Are the gifts you’re “supposed to” receive more important than the marriage itself? Are they worth fighting over, possibly alienating yourself from your future kallah?
The Wolf
please look at the rema evan haezer siman 45:1
OK, I looked at the Rema. He discusses whether, if gifts were sent, under what circumstances we may have to be wary that a bona fide kiddushin took place. He does not say that there MUST be gifts.
The Wolf
you just dont like it because you are probably modern orthodox
I’ll look up your reference shortly, but in the meantime, I have to ask you this…
a. who said I don’t “like” anything. Why attribute to malice what you can attribute to ignorance?
b. How do you know what sect of Judaism I affiliate with. For the record, I do NOT identify as modern orthodox.
c. Your sentence could be construed to mean that the modern orthodox don’t “like” halacha. I find that characterization repugnant.
The Wolf
I predict eclipse will return Jun 1 2011 by day and Jun 15 2011 by night.
The Wolf
its less of a problem if the wife passes away and he remarries. he could theoretically be buried next to both. and he certainly can have both wives when moshiach comes.
What if they’re sisters? 🙂
The Wolf
The point is not gifts but the fact that sometimes you are to made to feel not loved or wanted.
While it would be nice to feel wanted by your future in-laws, the important thing to remember is if you’re future wife wants you. That’s the ikkar — everything else is superfluous. If she wants you and you want her, the rest doesn’t matter.
Arent there halochos regarding gifts to choson and kallah
No, there are not*. Some communities may have some customs surrounding this, but none of them are binding in the sense that the couple cannot get married without them.
The Wolf
* The ring for kiddushin is an exception to this, obviously.
What should a choson do if kalah gets everything and his inlaws dont want to give him anything
Forget it. Assuming his in-laws won’t budge at all, is it worth it to not marry the girl because you won’t get a watch and a shas. Is that all a marriage is worth? Are you marrying the girl or the gifts you’re going to receive from her parents?
What if money has nothing to do with the reason that they are not giving. Before you answer what would you do if it was your child, would u just sit back and do nothing
I would give my kids the same advice I just gave above. Again, are you marrying the girl or the gifts you hope to receive?
The Wolf
I’m going to ask for a source for that as well. I find it hard to believe that if a man is married for fifty years, has kids and grandkids with a woman and then, after she passes away, chooses to spend his remaining few years with another woman that that makes him ineligible to be buried next to his first wife to whom he was married the vast majority of his life.
The Wolf
As long as it tastes good, I don’t care. I’m not too picky.
I remember one Purim when my seudah consisted of a tuna fish sandwich.
The Wolf
My question is: What gifts are a choson and kallah entitled to
Nothing. If you’re entitled to it, then it’s not a gift.
That being said, other than the ring for kiddushin, no one is entitled to *anything*. Yes, it may be nice to give gifts, but they cannot be afforded, they should be limited or dispensed with entirely.
The Wolf
i think looking through tanach its clear that there is a an inyan that place of burial is important (even in terms of rising for techias hamaisim).
I never argued that it wasn’t important. But you’re going to insist that a wife MUST be buried next to one particular husband (as opposed to any others she may have in her life), you’re going to have to show me a source.
Again, if you can show me that I’m wrong, I’ll be more than happy to gracefully retract my statements… but to date, you have not done so.
The Wolf
by the way, “till death do us part” is a goyish part of the wedding ceremony. i don’t remember that as part of the sheva brachos…but hey, its been a while since my wedding.
You’re right, but what does that have to do with it? The fact is that after one partner dies, the other is free to remarry. If that doesn’t indicate that the marriage is over, I don’t know what does.
The Wolf
If the sefer says Oolam Haba, I doubt there is a difference in Moshiach times.
I’ll tell you what. You find me the sefer so that I can research it, and then we’ll talk.
The Wolf
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVRE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVRE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVRE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVRE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVRE
DIVORCE IS NEVER A BETTER OPTION!!!! A THOUSAND MILLION TIMES NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
have i expressed myself clearly enough. the question is wrong, because divorce is never a better option.
I, my kids, my sister and her children are Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos today because of my parents divorce. Had they remained married, I would, in all probability, be a m’chalel Shabbos today.
Is it your opinion that it is better that I, my sister and our children be not frum?
The Wolf
but its definitely a kabbalistically important matter who a person is buried by.
I’ll tell you what… open up a Shulchan Aruch or some other sefer and show me where there is a specific halacha that says that she has to be buried by any particular husband. Keep in mind that there are *many* cemeteries that don’t even bury husbands and wives together anyway.
If you show me that there is such a halacha, I will be more than happy to retract.
The Wolf
Wolf – what’s your Mekor?
I need a mekor that a marriage is terminated at death???? How about the fact that either party is free to remarry?
The Wolf
If marriage is terminated at death, why does the husband inherit her if he is not longer related?
Because inheritance takes place at the moment of death, not after it.
The Wolf
how do you know??
I gave my reasoning. Marriage is terminated upon the death of either of the partners.
The Wolf
if a widow remarries, is she buried next to her first husband or second?
Whichever one she or her relatives want.
and when moshiach comes, who will be her husband?
Neither, since her last marriage was terminated by her death or her husbands. Therefore, when she is resurrected, she will be able to marry whichever one she wants (or even someone else entirely).
The Wolf
In an ideal world, each child should receive equal amounts — and responsible parents should know not to go “all out” on the first if it will impact the later siblings.
But OTOH, adult “children” should be able to understand that sometimes circumstances change and that what was affordable when the older one got married may not be affordable when the younger one gets married. If a parents income changed (for the worse) between one child’s marriage and the next, the younger child should not be making a stink that they did not get what the older one did — and if they do, then perhaps they aren’t mature enough to get married in the first place.
Mature, understanding people don’t put their parents into debt by demanding things they can’t afford — even if it’s what their older siblings got.
The Wolf
the future spouse expects it.
If you’re future spouse still expects it even after knowing that you cannot afford it, you might be better off not being married to that person after all.
The Wolf
They’re not musts. Anyone who tells you anything otherwise is lying.
My wife bought me a nice (not gold) watch for our engagement. I bought her an engagement ring. That’s it. We’re still very happily married years later.
The Wolf
sqeezing wolf junior? “oof” is too docile, I would expect a howl:)
My kids are not wolves.
The Wolf
One of my favorite movie quotes:
“No, Elvis is not dead. He just went home.”
The Wolf
If I squeeze my son, I get an “ooof” out of him. I guess I have to avoid that on Shabbos. 🙂
The Wolf
Wolf, if its seperate seating, we usually decline (the spouse who isn’t friends). Sometimes we decline with mixed seating because its just too expensive and annoying to get a babysitter.
I understand that. Nonetheless, the invitation should be issued to both spouses. If one doesn’t want to come because they won’t know anyone, that’s up to them.
The Wolf
in NY you pass way too many people on the street on every walk to constantly greet everyone.
I guess you live in Times Square. In my part of Brooklyn, it’s usually not a problem to try to greet (nearly) everyone.
The Wolf
You and hubby can take care of the paperwork during sheva brachos.
Why not take care of it beforehand?
As for the ceremony, I was thinking along the lines of Prospect Park, or the Bklyn Botanical Garden (I think Wednesdays are free admission to the Garden)
Tuesdays are free admission days at the BBG year-round.
While admission to the BBG may be free, having a wedding there is not. The fee to have the ceremony (with 50 guests) is $425.00. The ceremony must be held outdoors — rain or shine and there is no seating available. Lastly, music is limited to soft small hand-held music.
The Wolf
I once heard someone suggest that (other than a family wedding) only the spouse who is friends with the chassan or kallah should be invited and attend, as opposed to automatically inviting the other spouse, too.
I disagree with this. Proper etiquette is that if you are inviting a married person, you invite the spouse as well*. The other spouse doesn’t have to attend, of course, but it is only proper to invite them.
The Wolf
* Barring unusual circumstances, of course — such as a technically still-married person in the midst of getting a divorce.
Is there reason for my being so edgy, or is it an exciting leap?
Any major change in life results in some apprehension. It’s perfectly normal.
The Wolf
I always find it amusing how things are looked at.
By my wedding, we had somewhere between 190 and 200 people. When I mention it to someone frum, they comment that I had a small wedding. When I mention it to someone non-Jewish, they marvel at the big wedding I had. 🙂
The Wolf
You actually answered your own question.
I don’t think so. My reading of MR’s post (and please correct me if I’m wrong) is that it’s wrong for a man to look at his wife’s hair at *any* time. It should have been obvious that we’re not discussing periods when he can’t*.
The Wolf
* Yes, I know there are plenty of people who say that a man is allowed to view his wife’s hair even when she’s a niddah — but for the sake of argument, let’s just assume that we’re talking about when she’s not a niddah.
It depends on the circumstance.
So, please enlighten me. Give me an example of when it is a “lack of Tznius” for a man to see his wife’s hair (assuming alone and not a niddah).
The Wolf
You should enter photography contests–you probably did,and won!
Thank you for the kind words, but no, I haven’t entered any contests.
The Wolf
BUT, she MUST be careful. She must make sure that others DON’T see it
Yes, I realize that, of course. But MR’s post (at least as I understand it) says that it is wrong if a man looks at his wife’s hair.
The Wolf
What are you looking forward to doing as soon as the weather turns nice outside?
Photographing flowers in bloom.
The Wolf
which would include lack of Tzinus.
Do you think it’s a “lack of Tznius” for a man to see his wife’s hair?
The Wolf
It seems like it is going on now
For some reason, I hear the same thing every time there’s any trouble or strife somewhere in the world (which is always). I wouldn’t be surprised if people thought that back in 1917 as well.
IOW, don’t worry about figuring out if the current strife is MGuM. When it gets here, you’ll know it.
(Yeah, I know that there will be some who will call me a non-believing chutzpanik for saying such a thing. I don’t care.)
The Wolf
which would include lack of Tzinus.
Do you think it’s a “lack of Tznius” for a man to see his wife’s hair? Or arms? Or legs?
The Wolf
Wolf – Please!; but it is brought down such a shittah. A woman didn’t let the walls of her house see her uncovered hair and it says very nice things about it!
It’s one thing to say that it’s a chumra that people might want to consider. It’s another thing to say that a husband seeing his wife’s hair is a cause of shalom bayis problems.
Do you think he’s even remotely right that a man looking at his wife’s hair (a perfectly permitted activity according to EVERYONE except MR) is the cause of shalom bayis problems?
The Wolf
mosherose – You are right
So, you agree with him that a husband should not be allowed to see his wife’s hair???
The Wolf
I’m starting to feel guilty for ever eating there…
Heh. There’s a blog that I know that focuses on kashrus that sometimes makes me feel sorry that I eat or drink anything (including water). He manages to find a fault with just about everything you can imagine.
The Wolf
Impossible,but he did it!
Oh, and to make the obligatory obvious point… obviously it was NOT impossible. Difficult, certainly, but not impossible.
The Wolf
I recently watched a video of a man crossing a 50 ft.tightrope hundreds of feet above water.Impossible,but he did it!
If you think that’s impressive, I suggest you do a quick Google search on a gentleman named Philippe Petit.
The Wolf