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Avira, yes, I was not serious, mods are doing a great job, but they do make their own judgment on what is offensive.
RebE, Kayin calls him “brother” as a call for mercy reminding that they are brothers
I agree that we can move discussion to a different thread. I think I was not clear here – I quoted a hesped with several points, and, in response to Avira, tried to clarify what R Tendler’s and related views are based on. I don’t think I posted any of my opinions here, but will happy to discuss in a different thread. Overall, I think it is a respect to Talmid Chacham when people discuss his Torah. We say that the person is alive while his opinions are quoted.
huju, veterans I talked to differ on the value of going and staying in Afghanistan, but are united in their opinion on what happened recently.
Ctlawyer, I think your feelings are justified but they do not reflect the whole truth. Poles as a country did not collaborate, they were fighting against two cruel superpowers. They were a little deluded between the wars, Jews included. Jewish memoirs report that Jews expected that Polish cavalry will push the Germans back and were SHOCKED that the airplanes over Warsaw turned out to be German and not Polish… Read about Jews and Poles evacuated from USSR during WW2 via Iran: while Poles did favor the ethnic Poles, they organized help for Jews also.
I am not saying that Solidarity per se achieved something, but they were pushing against the Soviets more than anyone else. Soviet dissidents, including Jews, were bravely doing interviews with BBC and hunger strikes in prison , Poles were taking over cities. I know it is always
11, Hamevin yavin
Avira,
to help you reconcile Gemora w/ R Tendler, one line of reasoning is that women are obligated in learning mitzvos relevant to them. Chafetz Chaim applied that in endorsing BY concept of learning Tanach and Mussar. The claim is that modern educated women need Gemora learning to support their emunah at the intellectual level they are. So, they need to learn it and it is not a trade-off, but a simple requirement. Same way, a woman who prepares for Pesach needs to know halochos of Pesach, so a woman with a law degree needs to understand Yiddishkeit at the same level.There is a lot to criticize in this concept and think critically whom it can be applied to and how, but the claim seems to be well within the parameters of halakhic discourse. You may be particularly unappreciative to the concept because it applies less to women in your community, so you do not see the relevance.
some caveats thrown around that I did not check out, but if you want to look into this: [I am skipping references by authors you do not like]
Rav Aharon Soloveitchik, 1986 – prohibiting coerced study based on Torah Temima (Devarim 11:19) who quotes the Teshuvot Maayan Ganim [this puts in questions a lot of high schools who do that :)]
Tzitz Eliezer (9:3)
Rav Yehuda Henkin (Teshuvot Bnei Banim 3:12)
Rav Chaim David Halevi (Teshuvot Asei Lecha Rav 2:52)ujm, I know, but it used to be smaller
Avira, this was a quote from R Tendler by the speaker. Not sure whether he said “he would allow”, maybe “he would agree” or “understand”. find the talk on yutorah for an exact quote. You may disagree and you did it somewhat respectfully indeed, other than presuming that R Tendler did not know or did not understand the Gemorah.
You have a point that I migt be wrong posting something that you might disagree with and have to respond. But I was thinking that withholding his opinions would also be harmful to readers, who would continue thinking that such opinion does not exist.
ujm, indeed, according to the speaker, R Tendler told him that Fathers talked to each other after the kids already met. Baseless suspicion about gedolim edited
depends on the length of the message! I sometimes try to ease mods job by dividing a message in multiple shorter ones. Then, the mod does not need to bother editing, he can just reject the posts that do not fit his shitah.
Gadol, someone else said that we often talk about people comfortable in two realms, but for Rav Tendler, there was no separation.
> So finally what are the downsides of living OOT?
A need to read YWM to find out what is happening “in town”. Frankly, finding this OOT references a little snobby form people who strictly speaking live on islands off the American continent. Well before Lakewood, Torah often lived “OOT”, far away from Berlin, Paris, Mehoza, Alexandria, Rome, Bavel …
Avira, thanks for the reference. Given that he is from England, makes sense that he knows the story of Talmid from England. Still, I would not call this “sourced” unless Rav Falk says that he heard this from that person. The book is full of secondary references, well collected, but certain to support the author’s passion. His references to kulos are present (Igros Moshe allowing women to bath in the presence of non-Jewish life guard) but very rare. Understandable generally giving the topic and the goals, but one definitely cannot confirm a full picture of attitudes from the book (above mentioned kulos on kiddush in presence of low-tznius mothers by Chazon seem not to be mentioned, I think).
Possibly, Hevel was holding Kayin down, but Kayin asked for mercy, saying (1) I am your brother, (2) you will be accused of the murder, there no one else! – and promptly “rose up” to kill him
Shimon, you might think that Biden does not have a grasp of things, so he would take the tallis. Still, apparently all his children marry/date Jews, some twice, some the same .. so, he may recognize the tallis
huju, clever, would you say this to a face of an Afghani refugee or of an American Afghanistan Veteran?
Gadol > have become the hallmarks of BOTH parties .. sensible middle of the American body politic is on life-support
Agree. Weimar Germany fell under pressure from two sides by Commies and Nazis and people having to choose between the two terrible alternatives. Historical question: how come after 100+ years of successful American democracy Wilson could not propose a more stable system for Germany? A filibuster when you really needed it? Cared too much about the League and did not appreciate what we had?
Still, excesses on the left worry me more.. Not only because it has a higher score on murders and more countries historically, but is also more attractive ideologically by appealing to global feelings. Also, by having a grip on many institutions, including educating the youth.
I just compared trend for last 15 years for socialism, communism, nazism, fascism (the latter being a commie term to refer to nazism) – and first two are 2x over fascism, and nazism is negligible… Socialism spikes during 2008, 2016, 2020 elections. Nazi is popular, but it seems mostly as a term of endearment, like grammar nazi, trump nazi, not an ideology
Gadol, it applies: drilling itself is not an aveira. Depends what you are drilling in.
I would encourage you to separate two issues – (1) “less observant” and (2) “modern”. These are not the same things. You need to analyze your family circumstance: what belongs to each of these categories. If you understand the difference, then you might (or not) discover that some of your family values are worth keeping. For example, a more modern schooling or family background may have prepared you better for challenges of interacting with outside world, workplace, etc. You may still want to change your approach to a different one after due consideration, but at least you need to show respect to your parent’s derech by not discarding it as inappropriate (if that is what it is).
So, if you can find value in your background, then you original question is similar to: how about a Yekke marrying a Litvak with less if undue low self-esteem.
notes from a talk by R Moshe Kurtz, a recent talmid:
He asked R Tendler ZT’L how he met his future wife, Shifra. They met at a public library, where he was studying biology, and she asked him a biology question .. Later on, R Feinstein approached R Tendler Senior (they were on the same Beis din), and when father asked the son, he replied that he is already pursuing it .. AAQ: would this be Ms Feinstein approaching R Tendler first and then her Father? Anyone knows more on this?
R Tendler was niftar on Shmini Atzert – not on his birthday, like Moshe, but on his wife’s birthday …
Also asked R Tendler re:R Feinstein allowing halav stam but keeping halav Isroel himself. Was he not sure of his own psak? Stricter with himself? R Tendler said people misunderstood. R Feinstein was concerned that he was holding by halav Isroel before, equivalent to a neder, and quoted a Gemora about someone entering Gan Eden alive due to never needing to annul a neder …
R Tendler’s approach: learn the facts, data before going to halakha. At a Niddah class, he would pass specimen around, asking students to categorize.
When they learned on Zoom, R Kurtz turned to the side to greet his wife entering the house. R Tendler told him that this was not proper – he needs to get up and greet his wife with full attention.
They once had a Gemora shiur together – R Tendler, R Kurtz and his wife. They were making a picture after that. R Tendler instructed the wife to open Gemora back so that people would have no doubt that she was learning.
He asked R Tendler what he thinks of R Feinstein disapproving of women learning Gemorah. He answered that if R Feinstein would have seen how they approach it now, he would be happy that his great-granddaughter is learning. Meaning that at some point this was an issue of feminism, external influence, among other controversial issues. R Tendler is simply seeing women sufficiently educated, committed, and capable of learning and does not think they should miss out on this.
When Covid started, R Tendler was waiting for some time for someone to help him install Zoom. YU, respectably, sent a senior 60-yo Rabbi to help. This did not work until they sent a younger person …Lately, R Tendler was giving his Zoom shiurim from the hospital bed to the point where he was getting tired and could not continue.
I have no problem reviewing various medicines that could be another layer in addition to vaccines, SD, masks, approved medicines.
For guys, who advocate some of these medicines INSTEAD of other things – are these your own ideas and you_all came up with them independently? If not, what is the source of your ideas – friends? radio? web? could you please share
One of the explanations for Cain is that he felt that his brother was too much of a tzaddik – without his better korban, Cain’s korban would have been accepted. Similarity and 2nd connection to Lemech and Noach.
> hitting a new low,
Chill, this is a very local low, they used to put people into labor camps.
> when I told you I was going to bring a Mabul, you knew you would be safe in the teivah, so you didn’t daven for the rest of the world
interesting, this sounds more Lubavich than Satmar. We are, indeed, are all in the same boat.
Koheleth Rabbah also says that Kayin had 100 sons, enough to populate a town.
There is ambivalence whether Cain is guilty of murder or manslaughter (no precedent, he got angry, Abel provoked him, or even Hashem provoked him, etc), and his teshuva is half-baked: he demands protection at the end instead of pleading for it. So, he gets half-forgiveness: lives a long life, but is eventually killed in a similar (inadvertent-sic!) manner, not buried.
Also, in an analogy to inadvertent killers, it may be appropriate for him to reside in a city of refuge rather than travelling around forever.
legal reasoning source:
Irene Merker Rosenberg, Yale L. Rosenberg CAIN ROSE UP AGAINST His BROTHER ABEL AND KILLED HIM: MURDER OR MANSLAUGHTER?
they are quoting ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ, THE GENESIS OF JUSTICE 16 (2000) that I did not look up yet.Given that most youngsters are not aware that there are books out there, anything encouraging reading is OK by me. In my area, they rescinding fines in the honor of COVID, my kids ordered a bunch of them, and even read some… The fines are now back and we are searching for those books now…
By the way, this was an early Netflix approach v. Blockbuster – instead of annoying fees, you could keep a fixed number of DVDs. So, maybe libraries can do the same – let you keep N books and exchange for new ones.
RebE, apologize, I did not look at what I copied. Don’t know how to control my Ctrl-V. You’ll be better off going to the original source, anyway.
Ujm, does you source have more details on that English student story? It is bothering me that he possibly disregarded his father’s halakhic sources and went somewhere else. Oz Vehadar is an unclear reference, this seems to be a publishing house only, not a sefer.
Coujld a Jewish firelady object to the color on the account of tznius?
What color are firetrucks in Monsey?
Do you mention the midrash of common letters of ish and isha at a firefighter wedding?RebE > Chasidim did not want to mix with Non-Jews
Rebe, are you saying that Chasidim did not use this levush while it was popular among Poles?
If Kayin understood that Hashem wants him to rely on his intellect and be productive rather than simply rely on what earth gives him, he needed enough people to develop industries that will entice farmers to bring food in exchange for the goods. It was before the plough, so maybe he was making and sharpening cutting tools, axes, blades? Maybe medical and vet services? And then have research and teaching around that? I would say at least tens of people.
> when I can’t see the person face to face,
I think this is an astute observation. I also noticed – for large group classes or meetings, video does not make much difference, but if you want to learn/discuss with 2-3 people, seeing person’s face is helpful – especially if people do not know each other or do not know each other well. “As there are no two same faces, there are no two same opinions” – and Zoom helps you see it immediately and naturally. Some psychologists say seeing your own face in Zoom is confusing for the brain, so experiment with looking only at the other person rather than gallery.
Still, I urge you to get accounting or legal advice on how to make your payment. I do not believe your learning will get the brocha otherwise… Presumably, if the chevrusa can qualify as an independent contractor (controlling their effort, time) or as a charity recipient, then you would not owe taxes, and his will be low. Do not rely on my opinion, of course, even if you pay me $5/hour …
Ramban refers to Koheleth Rabbah 6:3. that Cain lived many years and that he died in the flood.
To support the original post here, every person – Adam, Chava, Kayin – are punished not right after the son, but after a discussion. That is, something in each discussion – denial, shifting blame – is the immediate reason for the punishment. Kayin could have learned from the parents.
Syag, could you clarify what you are objecting to? I pointed out that the request might be illegal if not done carefully. Are you saying that this is not an issue for the poster? Before you were accusing me of having low expectations of community standards, now you seem to do it yourself. Hope I mis-understood you.
As a farmer, Kayin was in contact with Hashem. When he lost the contact, he had to rely on human intelligence that flourishes in the cities – developing science, engineering, processing produce. He also started the tradition of donor building right naming the city for his son, hoping to keep his memory eternal (paraphrasing R Elie Munk). Note that he tried to defend himself claiming that he did not know the other guy would die from the blow. As the defense did not work, he realized that not knowing science is not an excuse (my addition). Note that he started science education without ethical component (from a drasha, not sure of the source).
> How’s the shidduch crisis solved in yemos hamashiach?
Eliahu personally checks resumes for puffery
Israelis report that for 60+ year olds, 2 shots _currently_ (that is about 8 months later) have 5x serious illness decrease comparing with non-vaxed, and a recent booster adds another 12x for a total 60x. T
practical suggestion – move your time so that you can hire someone in Israel.
> In some places it’s the going rate.
I am just trying to be helpful and warn the person to avoid violating labor laws. IL is also above it. Maybe FL qualifies – $10/hour. Also, Ohio among states with some learning population.
It seems to depend on the state laws, whether a chevrusa will be an independent contractor (exempt from min wage and payroll taxes) or a hired worker. Sounds like if you select time, manner of learning, and a masechet – maybe he will be a worker … Maybe lawyers here will help.
CtLawyer: re:Solidarity
with all respect to your Father and with understanding of his feelings, Solidarity led to 1+ mln of Soviet Jews getting freed. If you look back at history, Jews generally supported Polish anti-Russian feelings during Napoleon times and later rebellions, whatever Polish-Jewish relations were. Chabad Alter Rebbe was seemingly an only one supporting the Czar out of negative attitudes towards modernity and also realistic understanding that French will come and leave, while Jews will still be under Russia. (He did not live to see his political hunch coming true, as he died while running away from Napoleon).this is below minimal wage in NY,NJ, and many other states
Ctlawyer, what I mean is that Biden’s overall popularity among independents fell from 61% in January to 37% in September. It is overall view of his inability to do anything at all. On Afghanistan, professional views differ on whether it was wise or not to stay or go, but they are united viewing execution as total failure, combined with lame attempts to blame everyone else. Now, still, veteran groups are working phones on their own trying to get their Afghan colleagues at least hidden for a time, with no immediate hope of getting them out.
On a related topic of achievements. WSJ today preforms insightful analysis of hospital pricing data on COVID treatments. They mention, inter alia, that this analysis was made possible due to “recent” federal regulations that forced hospitals to post the data. No mention that these were Trump’s regulations. Not one of 100 commenters recalls that. With such human memories and media air cover, Biden has hopes that in 12 months, nobody will remember about Afghanistan or inability to vaccinate population…
> i understand the rambam. but i think here specifically its not applicable
ok, Mod-29 may be right, I give up…If it is not a troll, Rav Dr Twerski recommends Nefesh Organization 201-384-0084 to find a frum psychologists who can help look at the issues without personal bias.
These were indeed the arguments against af Yoim when R Shapiro proposed it – that now any ignoramus can say that they finished Shas.
First, you don’t have to say that you finished Shas. It is up to you. Second, I view this a modern variation of R Salanter answering someone who said he has just one hour a day – should he do Gemorah or Mussar. He said – mussar, and then you’ll find out you can find more time for Gemorah.
A simple way to expand is to mark up an interesting sugya during the class, and then expand on that topic separately.
RebE> If a husband marries a sister of the first wife after her death
As mentioned above, what about gilgulim, or plain Yiden before Rabeinu Gershom, Sephardim, Yaakov, David? Will Shlomo get only his Jewish wives back?
Anyway, I will take seriously all these speculations when I see that we can figure out some simple things first like whether to bother putting a mask during pandemic. Or whether two medicines are the same molecule or not.
Ctlawyer, while you were – understandably – busy with your health, about half of the country (not exaggeration for independents) changed their opinion of Mr. Biden. Google photos of Afghanis falling off planes in Kabul, you should be able to see that horror now.
eishis > i dont sit the entire day punishing, i only do it when i have no other choice
could you do a count in your head for the last 24 hours: how many times you interacted positively and negatively with kids?
ujm, do you have any halakhot or evidence how often would, say, Chofetz Chaim or R Feinstein hit or insult their students to fulfil their obligations as you quoted? Was it daily/weekly/annually? Maybe they were not invloved with tinokot directly, how did they advise people who asked them?
> it doesnt make sense to suddenly from being a {control freak dictating monster and} controling mother to a helpless mother who will just be mafkir her kids,
It does make sense to Rambam Hilhos Deos 2:2
אִם הָיָה רָחוֹק לַקָּצֶה הָאֶחָד יַרְחִיק עַצְמוֹ לַקָּצֶה הַשֵּׁנִי וְיִנְהֹג בּוֹ זְמַן רַב עַד שֶׁיַּחֲזֹר בּוֹ לַדֶּרֶךְ הַטּוֹבָה וְהִיא מִדָּה בֵּינוֹנִית שֶׁבְּכָל דֵּעָה וְדֵעָהA person who swayed in the direction of one of the extremes should move in the direction of the opposite extreme, and accustom himself to that for a long time, until he has returned to the proper path, which is the midpoint for each and every temperament.
eishis, yes, my (non-professional) suggestion would be to NOT punish them unless they literally run in front of a zooming truck. Even then, you can simply stop them from running, ask the truck to stop, or take them to play to a safer place to begin with.
An old Jewish book, whose author I can’t remember, lists multiple suggestions how to deal with anger. Among them, for parents – use positive attitude to deal with problem: instead of punishing for bad behavior, reward them for good behavior, or just for lack of bad one. Create competition between kids to encourage learning.
Try this for a month, if you are afraid that long-term lack of punishment will damage them. Write down how many times you give a reward or punishment daily to remind yourself to be increasing rewards and decreasing punishments, as it is very easy to go to a default behavior.