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I bet on the Jewish people lasting longer than others.
going to sleep is influenced by biological clock – when you feel tired. Getting up is driven by social restrictions – school and work openings. Thus, those in Eastern part of the time zone go to sleep earlier (in clock time) and sleep more than those in the Western. There is research taking pair of US cities one in the western part of their time zone, others – on the eastern in the next time zones – and the Easterners have higher average IQs and incomes.
Forshayer, Our outdoor minyan is doing similar, masks became optional a couple of weeks ago. Tent was used only duting Yamim Norayim when there were lots of people. We have about the same group as we had in shul, Rabbi included. As long as you doing out of the right reasons – prudence re:Covid (*), I don’t see a problem at all. R Lebowitz, YU, talked about this a couple of weeks ago, saying that return to shuls seems to be more complicated than leaving and other Rabbis reporting what common saychel says. R Lebowitz mentioned was sounds like a good criterion – it is a problem if you are now participating in other comparable activities, but not opening shuls. I do not, so it is not a problem. I would add a qualification to the Rav’s definition to exclude parnasa-related activities, where one is allowed to take risks that he does not have to take for davening with the minyan.
(*) US would definitely do better if people and government had a little more resolve. As opening accelerated in last 3 weeks, decline in cases over US in general stalled at the level 20x higher than Israel, including NE states that have slightly lower rates. R0 grew from 0.7 to 0.87 in 2 weeks and at that speed will hit 1 in a week. UK reaches a similar case rate as US and now has R0=1.5 ….
Vaccination rate reached daily 1% of population on the day biden gave a speech and now is back to 0.3% that Trump was doing. It seems the failure of the government was inability to achieve sustained high vaccination rates for 2-3 months as Israel did while people felt urgency, so now it is a struggle to convince people who do not see urgency. So, all power of government to fight COVID promised by Biden was a pre-election bluff.Avira,
ok, seems we do not disagree much. I would like to mention one point though – your usage of Reform, etc as a warning. We need to maneuver carefully when encountering threats – Hellenism, Islam, Haskala, Communism … On one hand, the approach of keeping away from the threat worked many times at the time of encounter On the other hand, long-term we need not to get carried away and modify Yehadut in opposition to the threats long-gone. We are not stopping learning Humash because of Tzdukim … but we did stop reading ten commandments …
If Reform abused tikun olam, does not mean that we should ignore bein adam l’havero and push and shove each other on the way to a “mitzvah”. Secular studies were strongly associated with non-religious lifestyle at some point, and this now prevents people from getting honorable professions. Maybe Rambam’s/Aristotle’s halakhot deot applies here: community, as a person, needs to generally keep a middle path, but should deviate to compensate for a trend. As with a skidding car or a stable inflation rate, applying such controls inappropriately may end up in a ditch on a left or on a right side (or inflation/deflation), thus a need to see big picture where we are and which way we are moving. Maybe second derivative also.As to learning psak v. meta-learning, my Lakewood Teacher explained 1/3 humash/mishna/gemora as applying to total learning, so at some point one needs to learn more of the gemora (reasoning behind laws, rather than just laws) as it is a much bigger field. Hate to bring covid here, but it aptly demonstrates that modern life brings new issues very fast comparing with cneturies ago where drastic changes were relative rare. So, ability of the community to adapt is even more important.
AviraDeArah> Torah lishma is your intention, not your methodology.
this is an interesting question.. We discussed here recently a Maharal in Netivos Olam that explains why a confused Bavli won popularity context against a more knowledgeable Yerushalmi .. [just imagine all Tannaim who made fun of those in the West seeing yeshivot learning Bavli, they’ll be confused more than Moshe in R’ Akiva’s class]. So, Maharal sees that Bavli had to reconstruct missing information and developed a method to do that (akin to modern pattern analysis – my words, not Maharal’s). So, now we can apply the same method to new situations. Thus, Bavli turned out more useful for future generations than Yerushalmi.
So, if I understand you correctly that we need to only learn halakhic conclusions without thinking how the authors came up to that, Maharal above seem to support the idea that learning how to think is also Torah. And there is enough in the Torah that different people can enjoy different parts of it. We don’t need to argue which part is more important.
Even in pure halakhic analysis, you may want to know the approach. for example, if you have multiple opinion, but many of them come from the same school or are independent opinions; whether they are using rational argument or relying on mesorah, and how strong that mesorah is; and whether underlying assumptions of the rational argument hold in current times.
>> Knowing random words from the rambam without gemara-context or psak is arguably not aisek, nor yedias hatorah
The way I (imperfectly) understand Rambam, he directly contradicts you and suggests reading him without sources. Luckily I can resolve this machlokes between CR and Rambam – maybe Rambam directed this just to balabosim like me.
As to calling “rationality” as “haskala”, I asked a deep Chabad scholar about some Rambam shita and Muslim philosophy and responded “Rambam was not afraid of admitting truth from any source”.
MosheKapoyer, admittedly, a lot of Talmidei Chachamim felt same way when Daf yomi was starting, so AviraDeArah is in a good company. If you ask me .. It is interesting, but takes time away from Torah learning :). At least with mussar, famous R Salanter’s answer was to spend available hour on Mussar and not Gemorah, as it will lead you to finding more time to learn Gemorah. I do not yet feel same effect from the Daf, maybe I need to finish it first …
PS another “proof” that R Soloveichik was bothered by attitudes of halahkists and not just baalei batim is a story that I heard (from a partisan source, so please correct me if this is out of context, I was not able to find it in writing). He was asked – given that he spend so much time pursuing academic studies, how was he able to catch up with other Talmidei Chachamim in learning (*)? His response (tongue-in-cheek in I presume) – when others were learning Torah, I was also learning Torah, and when others were saying lashon hara about me, I was learning secular studies. So, we were learning Torah same amount of time.
(*) this seems to be R Feinstein’s most concerning issue – that secular study will take time from Torah learning and thus will not be able to develop into Talmidei Chachamim. R Feinstein was asked whether it was ok to cheat on a secular test and not waste time from learning (Igrot Moshe, Choshen Mishpat, Siman 30). He categorically disallows cheating but, I think, says that you don’t have to go take those secular tests. Not sure whether this is directed only to those who plan to cheat or otherwise. If someone has a source handy, could you please clarify?
Re: Rav Soloveichik.
>> is the unique stand taken by many of our Jews on matters of Law and tradition. We have reached a stage at which party lines and political ideologies influence our halakhic thinkingI see how you read “our Jews”. At the same time, next sentence mentions “halakhic thinking”. It can be read in a different ways. I also agree that 50s might have been a hotter time than now, but it did last quite some time. So that you get a taste of the tension, here is a quote from a notorious letter in 1984:
With this we are publicly protesting against those who call themselves ‘‘great sages’’ and ‘‘heads of yeshivas’’ in the United States, who give obsequious praise to the known ‘‘uprooter of Israel,’’ the tyrant from Boston, product of the cursed Berlin Haskalah, and poisoner of the hearts of the Children of Israel through his venomous and ugly opinions, as is well known. That the aforementioned (sages) issued their letters of mischief on the occasion of the eightieth birthday of the Boston Sadducee borne on the pages of the ‘‘sledgehammer’’ that carries the title ‘‘honorable Rabbi.’’This was directed to Rav Feinstein, Rav Gifter, Rav Ruderman writing things like this:
I come with this to send my blessing to the editors of this festschrift that the students of the great genius, our master Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik shlit”a arranged in his honor, as he reaches the age of strength [eighty]. And also to offer my prayer that God lengthen the days and years of my dear, great friend, in old age, full of sap and richness [Ps. 92:15], and that he continue to spread Torah in public and to engage in public matters, in honor of God and His Torah, and as an honor to our families. With friendship and appreciation, Moshe FeinsteinAvram > I have a hard time believing that a Rosh Yeshiva would “give a lesson” to a father and teacher in front of his son and a talmid
I was there in the room. Rav Gans did not lecture the father, he addressed the child directly in a very friendly manner and lead him to make a commitment to interrupt soccer and daven for a couple of minutes. The question was not about “ideal”, the question was what was appropriate for that kid at that time. The father was a very intense person capable of learning hard lessons and went thru enough of them in his life already, so I presume the Rav knew that the father will get the message and he indeed did. He and I discussed it without the kid.
CTL, I mean the software protocol, not the business structure. www is accessible to everyone. You don’t need a company like facebook to access postings. Search engine can index them. If one search engine downgrades sites, you can switch to another search engine. If ywn is too restrictive, you can create your own website and post there. In contrast, fbook and twitter own the data itself. People volunteer to post on the private property, so “we the people” are at fault for losing freedom of speech.
Somehow millions of people were following Trump on twitter. They could as well read his blog, but it appears too hard for many ..
Participant, in the evening, your family members are waiting at home to fulfill kidush mideoraita, and you will be drinking shnaps in shul? And where women are also in shul, kids are more likely to be in bed at night
/As a halacha sefer, we often do not pasken like the rambam
Rambam is in a league of his own in pursuit of truth using rational methodology. If you learn from him how to reason, you will not waste your time
CTL, do you know what was thinking in your family when they moved to America?
The stereotype is that Goldena Medina was attractive to those who were escaping poverty and to non-religious who were not afraid of assimilation.meirs, why would you be celebrating Rambam?
Rambam learned chochmat goyim, even philosophy, wrote in Arabic, did not speak Yiddish, and even disapproved of those who take money to support their learning.
DY? He says – no need to teach parnosa, Gemora says there is a need. Pick a side.
> Is this the way of Avrohom Avinu?
2020 pew research shows only 2% of conservatives becoming O-. as well as 1% of Reform and unaffiliated. So, we are definitely not welcoming enough despite well publicized efforts…
meirs, who are you to argue on the Gemorah? or you don’t think kids becoming listim is a problem?
to borrow a phrase: Government spent money creating ARPAnet and now Fbook is exploiting for profit. Zuck, you did not build it! I am not sure why humanity needs to offer control over their thoughts to corporations instead of writing on open internet, like this site does. Fbook then is free to index that and provide ad-based interface to the free postings.
CTL, I agree on liberal Republicans, still not sure whether lots of Jews voted them, maybe in CT they did. My Father O’H felt unease when he saw the mother of a CT Jewish D- politician – she presumed everyone voted for him and my father did not want to disappoint her.
> Who asked him the shaila?
here it is in full, judge for yourself whether it is about halakha or notJanuary 12th, 1953
Dear Rabbi Rosenfeld, I acknowledge receipt of your letter. In my answer to your precious inquiry concerning the permissibility of instruction of girls in Talmud I stressed that unless I am assured in advance by the school administration that my recommendations will be followed I would not take the trouble to investigate the matter. Since such an official assurance has been withheld(your letter did not contain any such commitment) I must decline to consider the problem. The reason for my reluctance to engage in this controversial issue is the unique stand taken by many of our Jews on matters of Law and tradition. We have reached a stage at which party lines and political ideologies influence our halakhic thinking to the extent that people cannot rise above partisan issues to the level of Halakhah-objectivity. Some are in a perennial quest for “liberalization” of the Law and its subordination to the majority opinion of a political legislative body, while others would like to see the Halakhah fossilized and completely shout out of life. I am not inclined to give any of these factions an opportunity for nonsensical debates.
Sincerely yours,
Joseph SoloveitchikAvram, missed an old post about a kid not davening mincha
>> I think you have misjudged that situation and ascribe much more negativity to it than there was.
there was no negativity. My friend & teacher was definitely right to drag us an hour away to ask this shailah. He just did not expect that the lesson will be directed to him. I was there and we talked about it, not something that I observed on the street, so I am pretty much sure of what happened,
So, why did everyone else cried when they were given an opportunity to stay in the yeshiva of Moshe Rabbeinu for their whole life?! On full support! Would our generation cry or be happy?
Avram, no problem, I am glad you are feeling better with the position when stated by R Soloveitchik than by an AAQ. To clarify – in that letter, he is refusing to make a halakhic decision as he is not told that something practical will come out of it, and he will get into a controversy with other halakhists, not CR. At least this is how I understood it. Look it up and see if you understand it differently. He eventually ruled on the issues when it became practical.
common, you seem to presume that Italian Jews volunteered to live a sheltered life behind the walls. You are projecting.
> ‘peasant from the east’
with due respect to your Oma, Jews in the Pale were rarely allowed to be farmers. Maybe she combined hidden references to “am haaertz” and east, as Babylonian are looked down by Israelis in Gemora
There are two stirah:
1) Americans say – early bird gets the worm. Chinies – early bird gets eaten … minhag hamakom2) bein Rambam v’Rambam. In one place, IIRC, he suggests sleeping 8 hours and wake up with sunrise. In deot, as mentioned above, he suggests learning during day and night, which facilitate different type of learning. Resolution seems to be – even if you want to be healthy follow the first advice, if you want to learn well – the second.
CTLawyer, interesting story – this seems to be an early documented case of attempted fake voting. I presume not every fake voter is unlucky to meet the son of the stolen identity person.
Out of curiosity – did you ask him who he planned to vote for? If he stole a Jewish identity, he must have presumed that the voter is a Democrat, so he was probably a Republican.
Ctlawyer, re:alarm clock. I have it worse : I have only a minute amount of yekke blood, so I can feel the time (Kids once in a while test me asking for the time), but it does not prevent my non-yekke yetzer from being late. I used to wear a clock on public transport and watch how many minutes I am late. I once forgot the watch and realized that the watch was not at all helping me to get there on time. So, now I was able to read…
I would not wake up to make a 3am clock, I would go to sleep late.
I presume Swiss Jews at least wear the watches?
Guys, you need to get some numbers to make a conclusion. When you are saying, I don’t know kids who got dangerously sick from covid, what does that mean: out of 100? 1000? Do you know whether there’s long-term minor damage?
And when you say, there are complications from vaccine, is it 1 in 10,000?
I am not saying one way or another, but you are making conclusion based on feelings
As to the current virus level, USA is 30x more than Israel. Also remaining virus circulates among unvaccinated groups such as teens, who communicate with each other.Market works only when there is sufficient information. If I am selling you a car and you do not trust me, then you can only offer a lower price for it as you have to presume that inside is rotten. Then, an honest seller can not sell a good car on the open market, and the only sellers will be those with cars rotten inside. Thus, the “used car salesman”.
As mentioned above, you need to show it to a disinterested car mechanic – pay him well for the estimate and make clear that you are not going to bring it to him for repairs.
The same rule works in other fields where buyers can not fully evaluate quality of the product – universities, schools, doctors ..
RebE >> This is similar by the chassidim when getting up, making a big noise so the children see it. However, by the yekkes iit s done quitely in order not to wake up everyone.
interesting …
Would it, like, depend on whether kids need to get up?! Or have alarm clocks?Maybe chasidim are getting up later, so it is time for kids to get up already? And he is afraid that the kids will sleep late if he leaves?
And yekkes kids get up on their own at the prescribed time?
Yserbius. I am not discounting your doctors at all. I am just saying just because someone has an MD, is not sufficient to be viewed an expert on an emerging threat. Back to Meir Twersky’s last year letter – he said similarly that on a regular case we can ask one doctor, in a new uncertain case, we should ask several and take the safest of all. Except here we can’t take the safest approach as it is a trade-off between two risks.
> One of the most important things that Israel needs right now is a budget – this is the overriding reason for a Govt.. This was one of the reasons the last Govt failed
Who said Israel needs a budget and that the government “failed”. Stop reading newspaper headlines and think a little.
It failed in a narrow political sense – that it lead to elections, but it seems that the government during last 12 years performed reasonably well economically, and exceptionally well during last year – in vaccination and foreign policies.
> And the reported cases of heart inflammation in teenagers?
See statistics above. It is very easy to get distracted by a spectacular case. This is not a consumer case complaining about late delivery by Amazon/Fauci/doctors … it is an ongoing pandemic that killed millions of people. Try to make a reasonable informed decision. You just happened to be on a Facebook feed about vaccines, but not about Covid. Maybe go visit a COVID ward and then compare with what you heard about vaccines, or review the numbers I posted above.
> I trust my doctor a thousand times more than anything I read on the Internet
Yserbius, first it depends on a doctor. some have a trusted knowledgeable one, some have a random graduate of a random medical school.
2nd, ask them what they base their decisions on. A good doctor will be able to discuss his reasoning.
3rd, decision may depend on your personal preferences. The doctor may assume that your kid needs vaccine to attend wild parties. Tell him that your kid sits by himself and learns, and conclusion may be different. Also, decision point is not to – take or not take vaccine, but take a vaccine now or delay a decision by 1-2 months when more information will be available.
here are some numbers that can be a starting point to help you make a deicsion or discuss with the doctor. Disclaimer: I just know numbers, medicine is not my area of expertise, so please double-check the information.
General CDC stats: children have 2x less cases that 30-40 y.o, 10x less hospitalization, 50x less mortality.
Now, specific to vaccine risks, the one major risk discovered so far is myocarditis in younger population:
Risk of myocarditis in teens/young adults after Pfizer vaccine: 5 per million after 1st dose, 25 per million after second dose. Higher rates for pre-existing conditions and younger age. [Israeli data]
Risk of myocarditis for children when infected by COVID: 0.1-0.3%, or 1000-3000 per mln. [multiple papers] And about same number of other similar complications. Total hospitalizations among children: 2,600 per mln.
So, roughly if the child is in an environment where his cumulative risk of getting sick w/ COVID is 1%, then his myocarditis risk is 1% of 1000 (3000) = 10-30 per mln – about same as of the vaccine.
How likely the kid to be in 1%? CDC estimates that 40% of children were already infected in 13 months (until March 2021). That is 3% per month.
Things are getting better. Month of May was ~5x safer than previous ones. So, an average kid may have 1% risk in 2-3 months going forward. So, it matters if the kid will be in a risky environment – high-density school, no ventilation, community with low vaccinate rates among both adults and children and international travel, or in a safe environment, like home/online school with responsible adults.
Some emerging ideas:
– do an antibody test before vaccination
– do one vaccine dose [Israelis are considering that]
– wait for end of trials that are testing lower doses for smaller children
– wait for more information available next couple of months before the school year startsCould someone remind me what is the purpose of government? If the government can have combination of all possible opinions: anti-religious, religious, very religious (Islamists); also peaceniks, rightwingers politically, etc – then it is meaningless and VERY unequitable to not allow remaining parties that have some other permutations of the same opinions? So, all parties should be in the government. Let each knesset haver be a minister of something for a month. If they taki do not like Bibi, they can exclude him from Knesset (is bill of attainer legal in Israel?). Make him a Melech or a Nasi or a Kohen Godol.
there are several things you might consider, a couple for your
1) what would be the case level in US in the fall. It is going down right now, thankfully, similar to UK, and 20 times larger than Israel. Will it continue going down? New factors for that: UK had an increase due to Indian variant. Vaccination doses in US fell down from 1% daily to 0.4% and continue decreasing (thanks, Biden’s valiant efforts!). At current rates, we are at least 4 months behind Israel on total doses.2) how likely your kids will get COVID, especially a large dose. If they will stay without social distancing and ventilation and case level among mostly unvaccinated kids will not decrease – reasonably high
3) this one for the doctor – what are risks for your kid from COVID and from vaccine
CTLawyer > our family left Germany for America in the 1860s.
I think Yekkes are real survivors – they were mostly first Ashkenazim to experience Haskala, were in totally unchartered waters, and those who stayed Jewish and observant should be very special people. Are you considered vaccinated by modernity – and figured out how to live with it -, and were there less assimilation and Reforming issues with observant Yekkes when families moved to America, or not? maybe this can be seen – did Reform in America consist of those Germans who were Reform already in Germany, or was there also a flow from observant Yekkes already in US?
Yserbius: government has no need to regulate safety for things that are common sense? I pashut don’t get that reasoning.
First, American libertarian thought is that government should not regulate something that only hurts themselves.
2nd, this may depend on how well society follows common sense and level of intrusion required to regulate. Why not, for example, have government sponsored/required physical training as Nazis and Soviets had to ensure that men are ready for the Army? With government-subsidized helathcare, this may become an item.
3rd, carrots and tricks seem to be working in modern society better than sticks. Signing up employees automatically for 401k with an option to switch it off works way better than giving people an option to enroll.
An example where intrusion prevents good regulation in Gemora: when there are several farmers along the river, we let the first one to take as much water as he wants instead of putting an inspector. L’derech shalom. (some could argue opposite: that shalom requires dividing everything equitable )
would this be a government of doing nothing? the moment one faction will want to change something, another one will threaten quitting? or, alternatively, bringing more right-wing parties in?
this should work well for domestic issues (and Kissinger said this is an only one in Israel), but could be a danger for international.
note that last 2 years of “instability” worked spectacular internationally – best in the world vaccination, peace agreements, reasonably well prepared for Hamas attacks (both Iron Dome and note tunnels became a non-issue – this is not for the lack of trying).
one question – Yesh Atid is making decision right now, but who will be deciding on changes in coalition? would it be a collective decision? I presume Bennett will not be able to drop lefties and invite Likud back in two weeks later?
>> Once our elected leaders turn toward limiting our rights, the force of The Constitution will be right there along side them.
While we just quoted here such creeping cases of federal law applying to states, etc, you still need to acknowledge that US Constitution prevented a lot of abuses. Laws do matter. For example, German Weimar republic was constructed without much thought and collapsed legally very quickly. Also, notice that among countries that used to be colonies, the British ones (including USA) are doing much better than Spanish and others, presumably something to do with the British legal system.
wiki says that Rashba limited study of philosophy and science up to 30 y.o
Horowitz master thesis at YU refers to Minhat Kenaot, p 27-28, 32-37
Some of the argument is about inability of Aristotle to explain magnets and kameot (amulets), thus undermining philosophers claim to ultimate truth v. tradition.It seems that Rashba mostly does not like speculative philosophy while being in favor of what is empirically true – medicine, astronomy, and kameas that were deemed experimentally useful (possibly via placebo effect?)
CTLawyer, thanks for confirming that I chose profession wisely! I definitely admit that my knowledge is limited to recent learning w/ high-school kids, where learning for the (online) test is often a higher priority than in-depth analysis, still
10th Amendment includes people:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.from wiki:
James Wilson of Pennsylvania, later argued that the act of enumerating the rights of the people would have been dangerous, because it would imply that rights not explicitly mentioned did not exist;[11] Hamilton echoed this point in Federalist No. 84I am amending my statrement on Bill of Rights: several states ratified Constitution under condition of introducing Bill of Rights:
Massachusetts convention was angry and contentious .. impasse was resolved only when revolutionary heroes and leading Anti-Federalists Samuel Adams and John Hancock agreed to ratification on the condition that the convention also propose amendments ..Following Massachusetts’ lead, the Federalist minorities in both Virginia and New York were able to obtain ratification in convention by linking ratification to recommended amendmentsI think we agree that Federal government got more power and States more restrictions over time. It is hard to draw a line. I think we all would be less comfortable if stated were still having their respective churches. Or maybe not – Jews would have all moved together to Delaware or New Hampshire and could have established our own Jewish state. But overall this centralization and unification reduces benefit from unique American feature – multiple states that have common culture, freedom of movement, and independent state powers. This creates competition between state powers and solves a lot of problems that plagues humanity from Shmuel and Roman periods on how to limit the state powers. The country will not be paralyzed for years about Presidential elections if the President would not be in charge of taxes, oil exploration, etc. Let each state do their own thing and let people move where they like.
> we took chockas hagoy from whatever land we lived in
another way to look at it is that we can pick up the good parts from each nation we were sent to visit. The Rav who suggested this idea, list multiple good middos in each of the nations, his suggestion for America is scale of business – so are American yeshivot can grow in quantity. This does not sound very uplifting, if learning will become as popular as coke and as good for your neshama … Maybe we are not long enough here, but we need to find something better, maybe self-reliance and optimism of expansion?
>> number of misorahs have either dwindled or morp
it is a general rule that language/customs are better preserved in remote locations and change more in busy centers. Thus, American English is closer to old English than British. Si, I am afraid, we are losing a lot of particular minhagim. Others mentioned pressure in yeshivot .. This might have come from the recent times where yeshivot were trying to elevate kids from lower observance at home. [above mentioned yekkish view that halakha has to be time-specific]
Maybe this is something that needs to be taught in yeshivot – respect for parents and their minhagim, and respect for minhagim for others.One caveat though in the other direction: you are supposed to follow minhag of the community when you are there. So, is it proper for a kid to wear a tallis when others do not?
Avi K. I agree positions of rishonim on science needs to be looked at carefully. Some of the criticism of old science are quite valid – often done with limited experiments. That would mean that these Rishonim understood scientific method and rejected results that might not have been valid.
there is a story going around about Vilna Gaon, who was persuaded to see an eye doctor. He asked the doctor – how many layers are in the eye. He responded – 3. Gaon refused to be treated by the doctor – because it is clear that the doctor read Galen, but did not look at the eye carefully himself. There is a similar story about medieval Muslim philosopher. So, the issue might have been known.
Avi K > please cite where Rashba bans secular knowledge
this was from a quote on sefarimblog by by Edward Reichman and Menachem Butler Feb 2021.
Here is the full footnote on Rashba. some of these may be online.For an overview of the controversy, see David Berger, “Judaism and General Culture in Medieval and Early Modern Times,” in Cultures in Collision and Conversation: Essays in the Intellectual History of the Jews (Boston: Academic Studies Press, 2011), 21-116, esp. 70-78. See also Joseph Shatzmiller, “Between Abba Mari and Rashba: The Negotiations That Preceded the Ban of Barcelona (1303-1305),” Studies in the History of the Jewish People and the Land of Israel, vol. 3 (1973): 121-137 (Hebrew); David Horwitz, “The Role of Philosophy and Kabbalah in the Works of Rashba,” (unpublished MA thesis, Yeshiva University, 1986); David Horwitz, “Rashba’s Attitude Towards Science and Its Limits,” Torah u-Madda Journal, vol. 3 (1991-1992): 52-81; and Marc Saperstein, “The Conflict over the Ban on Philosophical Study, 1305: A Political Perspective,” in Leadership and Conflict: Tensions in Medieval and Early Modern Jewish History and Culture (Oxford: Littman Library, 2014), 94-112.
There is actually a medicine for hoarding, I keep a couple of boxes in the closet.
Right behind the box of medicine from gaava that I didn’t find any use of.Syag >> how drastically different your “quote” was from the truth?
I do not. I suggest you actually say what you mean. I listened to his talk off his website.
sorry for mixing up Twerskys with Twerskis – is there a split in the family based on the y/i?!ujm > seforimblog isn’t reliable.
they refer to a sefer where letters were published, and they have a longer account that what I read previously in one of the R Twerski’s books. Maybe someone could look up the original and report? A fascinating topic. I agree that their description of 2nd critical letter from The Steipler does not fit well with R Twerski’s conclusion that he got The Steipler’s blessing. Maybe there is something missing in the re-telling.
modified
Syag, I mean R Avraham Yehoshua Twersky Z’L, the psychologist. Thanks to your question, I revisited the story I thought I knew and it turns out more complicated:
Rav Twersky wrote to his mentor The Steipler in 1955 asking for his advice on choose a profession. I saw several sources descriving the letter a little different. Maybe someone has access to the published letters and can confirm. Most of below comes from seforimblog Feb 2021:
He asked wither whether he should go to medical school or a general question about a non-Rabbinical profession. The Steipler replied that medicine is preferred as it is a mitzva to learn it and is excluded from Rashba’s ban on secular knowledge. He suggested being stringent in – learn in depth at least two hours a day; attend all minyanim; go regularly to the mikva; be strict about Shabbos – not to read secular/science literature, learn musar daily.
There was a second letter, where R Twersky asked about his choice of being a Rabbi in low-observance community (and impact on his children) or being a doctor. The Steipler replied that rabbinate is preferred, but that R Twersky will become also become a successful physician (and it will make his observance even more challenging). R Twersky got from this that he went to be a doctor “with The Steipler’s blessing”.
modified
Syag, thanks for the clarification. Are you suggesting excluding, say, February-April 2020 from the analysis? Thanks, I’ll try to look at that, bli neder. I do need to say that DW made us fly in masks in mid-February already, and I was ducking embraces from people when delivering shalahmonas… Mi hu haham. haroeh at hanolad …
Rav Twersky suggest studying physiology to appreciate Hashem’s vision. He says – you don’t have to do it in yeshiva, could do it at home. The way he says this last sentence off-hand makes it unclear to me whether this is a preferred way to do it at home, or is it his pre-buttal to those who would disagree with teaching science at school.