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HaLeivi > are fine doing so, as long as the reasons are Bein Adam Lachaveiro.
This is a fair description of the Gemora about BM2 destruction. And many mishnayos about reasons for various destructions … And punishment of Hofni and Pinchas … I think it is also easier for us to connect bein Adam LHavero with events, as they are mida k’neged mida.
Menachem, thanks, 1927 makes more sense. In 1937, there were no parties left there, and Soviet commies were already arresting each other, and Fridriker Rebbe already lived in Warsaw or Riga
Theoretically, there are multiple dimensions where one can be more conservative or progressive – economics, social issue, foreign policy, nationalism.
In Israel, you have multiple parties that select different positions along these dimensions. For example, a religious party can be left-wing on economics (asking for support), foreign policy (“pro peace”), etc.
In US, with 2 parties, there is a salad of different position that differ over time. Trump, for example, took over some populist positions from Dems.
Personally, I am registered as I, and when asked who I vote for, I have to answer – I consider each election on merits, but never yet ended up voting for a D… I also see (mostly D) votes by specific recent developments, but I don’t think any of them ever voted for R before that.
some of the D- positions are beyond my red lines: previously, sympathy to Soviets, and recently hate of Israel. “I don’t need my friends be public about it” is great – unless you actually need [ublic support.
Also, despite R Avigdor Miller position, many observant communities want democratic economic policies – increase in welfare and other redistributions.
Menachem > When the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe was being arrested in the USSR in 1937, the KGB asked his daughters which political party they affiliate themselves.
This requires clarification – either the year or the loshon is off. There was just one party in 1937 USSR.
There are 2 ways to deal with this – thru avdut and thru herut.
Thru avdut: sign up as a rebbe to the camp to get a discount for your kids
Thru herut: take your spouse and your kids and enjoy the time together.
Rocky,
I am suggesting smaller, more nibble, schools, or just singular classes. Possible separate for Jewish and secular subjects. This would let parents to find similar types of kids/families and teach them according to their common shitos instead of begging schools to address the shortcomings. Halocha encourages increased competition between teachers and prevents neighbors in a mavoy to object to the tumult – all in order to improve educational options.smerel,
goyim having behira is not problematic – as in deed Mitzrim chose to be more severe towards Yidden,
but saying that their behira is an exclusive reason for events with Yidden is. That would imply that Hashem does not make Jews the center of the story. So, Spaniards might have chosen to become prosecutors, or be harsher than expected, but there should be a Jewish reason for the events in general.As to 20th century, it is probably not controversial that German assimilation caused hatred in a direct way, putting Jews into the center of German politics. And then there is downward spiral in observance in much of Eastern Europe. I would also add to that intra-Jewish relations of the preiod, with bitter infighting between political groups and lack of care for the klak Yisroel in general. this includes even care for German Jews when they were prosecuted… Some responded to an idea of a fast saying that it is impossible to fast for those who are not fasting themselves. [All groups ended up fasting in the camps, of course]. Even more so – abandonment of Russian Jewry after the Soviet revolution. Chofetz Chaim writes several times, calling for people to send packages during the hunger years and generally laments of their fate, and even reconsiders his decision to leave Soviet Russia and leave people behind without any guidance, but overall, there is no sense of Eastern European (or American) Jewry understanding the magnitude of physical and spiritual destruction of several million Yidden. There were individual efforts, such as saving R Moshe Feinstein, clandestine efforts by previous Lubavicher Rebbe, etc, but nothing comparing with 1970s movement for Soviet Jewry that took 50 years to start and that was still opposed by many of the Rabbonim.
I meant what I said, and I said what I meant. Every time, one is asking a random goy this question, you are mamash asking for it. This could be an antisemite, a druggie, a muslim, who can get offended and even attack you. I am not saying it is likely, but it is definitely possible. And it says that even a minor embarrassment or an inconvenience is a kaporah, such as putting your hand in the pocket and not finding a penny there. So, asking someone and getting a blank stare back is something.
And it is “ahavas isroel” because the chabadnik is ready to put up with that for days in a row in order to find an occasional Yid.
And there is another way to look at Spain: immediately after the expulsion, Spain started conquest of Americas, committing numerous atrocities along the way. Abraham Heschel writes about it (in 1930s Germany, hint) – if the Jews were not expelled, they would be the leaders among conquistadors. So – what is better – be a victim or the perpetrator?
There is a difference between knowing that events had a reason – and knowing that reason. And from previous history (BM2), when multiple groups blame each other, there is a fair chance that their whole fight was the cause …
Avira, ok then. To address your other point. I had several cases where I could compare different derech, when I had a chance to send same person to a yeshivish and to a chabad Rav (including someone I knew online). In one case, the litvishe Rav could not deal with the guy, and even complained to me how disturbing that person was, while the chabadnik had good time with him, and the person enjoyed the interaction. So, Rav Shmuel might be absolutely correct telling his students not to tackle cases that are over their heads, while chabadnikim could work with them.
it is ok to discuss possible reasons, but maybe not with the recent survivors or their families. It takes time to see the picture. For example, we are now 100 years away from WW1 and can probably start discussing it. But were we to talk about it in 1920 without knowing that WW1 lead to communists, Nazis, WW2, etc – do you think we would come to the right conclusions? A lot of what was talked about in 1920s, whether in goyishe or Jewish worlds, did not foresee the horrors to come. As one examples, Yidden reveled in the democracies, newly established by League of Nations in Eastern Europe, spending their energy on democratic infighting with each other, and pressing the new governments of these countries. In some cases, leading to political weakening of these countries in the face of their aggressive neighbors – Nazis and Commies. I read post-war memoirs of Jewish politicians in Latvia and it is heartbreaking to read their late teshuva about their activities that were helping the aggressors.
I don’t know to what degree there are preferences, but it seems that the growing Arab middle class prefers medical jobs to other, like engineering, high-tech. They just require certification and no higher-level skills: army, connections, social interaction. And seemingly there is shortage in some of these jobs, so it is easier for them to get those. Maybe a good idea for haredim also.
> most Spaniards today regard the expulsion as one of the dumbest things they ever did
is it indeed so? from a naive tourist perspective: if you go on a “general” tour, the guides will pass Jewish places without mentioning them. When they notice Jews or do “Jewish” tours, they’ll show you remnants of Jewish places, including pictures how they truck tombstones from an ancient cemetery to the museum you are visiting. They seem to see Jews akin Romans who were here before and left some artifacts for the museums of special interest.
This counting mitzvos is insane both ways.
Every minute a chabadnik asks a goy “excuse me are you Jewish”, he is fulfilling a mitzva of ahavas yisroel and is pikuach nefesh, which is on a totally different level, of course. That would be 480 pikuach nefesh in one 8-hour “work” day.
At the same time, you say birkas haTorah once a day, so it is one mitzva per day. Now, if you have a hidush, or taought someone else, or went out and practiced what you lernt, you might get to a bigger count, but not everyone does that every day.
Or maybe, maybe, we should read Chassid Yavetz in full and not just on popular lines.
Here is a different quote from R Frand’s book: one of the Spanish Jews sold everything and hired a boat to take his family. The captain dumped them on some island, his whole family died, and he davened – Hashem, maybe you are trying to push me away, but I will not go. I am not saying that this quote contradicts the OP, but I presume that a person who can sell possessions on a cheap and still rent a boat would not be a peasant. And more generally, do not rely on short excerpts, the author wrote long books for a reason.
provaxx, 3 is a chazoka. You are doomed to a place in olam habo with R Hutner, R Soloveichik, R Schwab, Abarbanel, Rambam, and Rabban Gamliel. I suggest you brush up on your Greek or you’ll be stuck for eternity not understanding their discussions. Be careful next time and don’t go to makom sakonah (presuming you believe in gilgulim)
> They were basically baalei taavah for philosophy.
Maybe they had to engage in philosophy given the environment. They first wanted to show that Judaism is not inferior to the dominant religions, and then to delineate differences between us and them, including participating in forced debates, like Ramban did.
Chasid Yavetz was, of course, affected by the tragedy of his time. But, recall, Jews lived in Iberia for multiple centuries, surrounded by two very aggressive religions. Pining for purity of simple people here is understandable, but not realistic.
Thought experiment – none of the Spanish Rabbis engage with modernity; some of the Jews become rich and hear goyishe lectures (don’t have to go to medrasa or university, just from their neighbors or business partners), so the higher classes convert quickly, and they are also talking to their simpler relatives also… And this is repeated for tens of generations .. There would be Jewish philosophers left by the time of Chasid Yavetz, and he himself would have been a frum galach.
And future generations would have been less prepared for other challenges. No Rambam – No Shulchan Oruch – No Shimshon Hirsh. We would be paskening by Gemora w/ Rashi.
And no CR discussions about dead Moschiachs.YS, I hear you. Note that Hunter business was not thrown at Biden while he was VP and after, and even during elections. This is a classic case where media does not serve Ds well. If Biden knew that a possible infraction will be splashed on front pages, he would have stopped, or at least, been subtler.
Trump himself, as well as some of his family, were in actual business before going into politics. Whatever sins they made before or after that can be debated. Biden and his family did not run anything, as far as I know, maybe his wife ran a pub with her first husband. And then suddenly start getting paid by our enemies over multiple years. And the President saying “my son did nothing wrong” and “I was not aware”…
Paid journalists are not involved in sinas hinam – they are paid for it, so their sinas is not real, just a job. Only posters on coffee boards are truly involved in sinas hinam, having no other pleasure other than just expressing it.
Chasid Yavetz justifiably criticized his teach Abarbanel, other Spanish Jews who dabbled in philosophy, such as Rambam, even known to non-Jews as philosopher “Maimonides”. As a result of his eloquent attacks, nobody ever in Jewish world studied anything in goyishe languages and the words of philosopher Maimonides are not studied much either. Chasid Yavetz left behind a large number of manuscripts, “most of them unpublished”.
I understand that ChatGPT is a parody, onion-style, on the modern humanity. It is trained on the corpus of available texts and then spews out the words to appear likely in the text it is trained from. So, it appears as convincing as any other am haaretz it learned from … throw a CR topic and it will probably respond with a heated discussion. I wonder whether it will produce a gemora if you give it a baraisa.
YS,
you focus on the _latest_ charge and even you had to re-state it 3 times to avoid mod’s snarks. I meant hundreds of accusations that happened in the previous years. I could not explain the mysterious connection between Trump’s campaign server and a Russian bank either. Or the Mueller investigation that somehow missed all the dirty tricks played on Trump. It is just too much to expect Trump voters to continue listening to trumped up charges waiting for the true ones. Is it so much easier with Hunter. I don’t think there was one rumor about Hunter that was found to be false, nebach.Does Rambam or Abarbanel suggest that people spend their lives wagering on who is the preferred Moschiach candidate and base their lives on that? Not a rhetorical question. During certain times, like Bar Kochba, many did … And Shabtai Tzvi
Maybe also worth looking at the gemora that suggests how the farmer should react when chasidim are passing by on the way to Yerushalaim saying they are welcoming Moschiach – finish plowing the field and then go (quoting by memory, so just suggesting to look into the sugya).
Also, on Abarbanel, look at the historical context of his writings: (this is from BenZion Netanyuahu’s book): A was travelling around Sefardi communities after the exile and trying to build up foundations of emunah going forward after the disaster they experienced.
The argument of Torah decline during L Rebbe’s lifetime is not so pashut. Whatever are numbers of general Jewish population in the world, we can argue that post-WW2 time is when we saw the end of the decline that was occurring before. Just read Chofetz Chaim’s letters in Poland in 1910s-30s where he repeatedly calls on Yidden to stop sending children to anti-religious schools and have at least one kosher cheder in each city; to make sure that the person not only keeps shabbos himself but his children do; that many communities will not be able to hold by the government requirement of having one sanitary mikva per town …. And that was Poland. In US, R Nosson Sherman said tht during his parents time, the Rav would tell his elderly students to continue coming to the class because there might be none after them … (I recall R Sherman saying “class that his father was teaching” but wiki says that his father was storeowner, I may be misremembering).
It would be silly to argue which group is most responsible for the tremendous revival of Torah in the world last 50-70 years, nut Lubavitch was undoubtfully part of it, even as some of them might exaggerate their role.
Eruv is given to us so that we can enjoy sholom together, instead, it seems that it is dividing us …
I disagree with the opinion that “those who carry were mislead” and thus are still considered shomrei shabbos. I don’t think you need Igros Moshe for that. Simply, Beit Hillel and Beis Shammai navigated different opinions on mamzerim without relying on the other group being mislead.
Thanks for clarifying – seems that the question is – is the majority of the anti-eruv yidden consider the issue m’duaraisa? seems like there are 2 opinions.
If m’drabonan, then it should be allowed for bikur cholim, etc. Maye even darkei shalom?!
Any fare minded T voter is emtionally exhausted by many years of accusations that never materialized.
Yesterday there was a leaked tape of T admitting to a crime on tape. Today, it is seemingly reported that the document discussed on the tape is not part of the filed indictment. It is just exhausting to read through all innuendo. Maybe, when you catch him getting a gun while lying on federal forms, or catch him threatening Chinese communist agents to send money right now, then we’ll be convinced.
On one hand, as mentioned above, people make discuss here issues that they will be uncomfortable to mention in person.
2nd, I have a similar question in reverse: those Chabadnikim who sound reasonably in public – do they also chant moreinu .. when they are surrounded by only their own?
3rd, I would prefer to rather discuss Chabad great work with under-observant Yidden, and how others could join or learn from that, rather than all these shtuyot. I wish other Yidden discuss THAT even when they are not near Chabadnikim, but I rarely see that.
4th, rejection of Chabad by other groups is not based on recent events, it was there when L Rebbe Z’L was alive. Whatever the particulars were, the main basis is not joining the main opinion, same as with others who are not counted.
YSL > Kollel families are more likely to get deductions on tuition,camps etc.
this is nothing unusual. The whole society suffers this “moral hazard” where it does not “pay” in short term to quit welfare and start working for low salary. After 1990s welfare reform that forced many of recipients into the workforce, they were all better off in long term. Of course, the difference for us is that we understand that “free tuition” comes out of a pocket of another yid, or even taxpayer, and one should avoid being a taker, as R Dessler writes in his essay “givers and takers”.
Rocky > It cost a lot of money and requires much effort to start your own school
It does not have to be a big building. R Kamenetsky and R Ruderman (as well as many others) would go the yard of a Rebbe teaching grade X and spent their learning day there. Just find 5-10 girls of similar age and have 1 teacher for them, possibly with some of the learnt parents chipping in some of their time. Plus use computers and tapes.
Another way not waste time is to mamash do mitzvos, or assist others to do mitzvos, for pay. Be a doctor or a nurse, or any job in medical setting, such as driving an ambulance, working in a medical supply store or a pharmacy. If you live in a Jewish town, then almost any job qualifies. If you sell shoes and make sure everyone has comfortable and affordable shoes, then you are assisting multiple people in their learning.
So, to minimize time spent on work:
1) figure out your own balance between high salary and time required to obtain that salary. Say, your choice is between working for $20/hour at a gas station for, say, 100 hours a month OR working for $100/hour as a software developer, so you spend 20 hours a month working. So, you save yourself 1,000 hours of learning per year. But this requires spending, say, 3 years 1,000 hours a year of studying programming first. So, you break even in 6 years, and you are well ahead, if you look 30 years ahead.2) if you are interested in business ideas, like above, my suggestion – try it quickly so you know if you are good at it, and drop if you are not. I know people who are successful in online selling, but it requires a lot of effort – select products, keep orders coming, making sure that every customer is happy even if they have crazy ideas – otherwise your rating goes down and your product gets off the front page and never gets back.
3) a small store, like pizza above, joint with hevrusos, sounds like a good idea. It worked well in the past, not sure about now. One advantage you have – you can manage your time. A normal storekeeper can not afford keeping a store open when there are not many customers. But you are able to learn while manning the store, you can afford a small store. So, you can both learn and practice what you learnt at the same time. One Rav told me that he stumbled into a tiny store in Bnei Brak, selling only watermelons. So, he bought one to support the guy. The guy took his money and started saying – slowly – you gave me 50 shekalim, you are paying 12 shekalim, I am giving you 38 shekalim back, here is 10, here is 10 …. The custome got annoyed and asked why is he treated like that. The owner explained: there are many foreigners here and they don’t know the currency, and I need to make sure they understand that I am not cheating them. This is Toirah …
YSL,
re: part time: congrats, this is greatre: selling your time. Yes, it is an issue. There is a story about some yeshiva bochrim in Radin who could not find a sefer referred to in Mishna Berura in the yeshiva. They figured out Chofetz Chaim himself has it at home, as he quotes it. So, they went to his house. Chofetz Chaim said that someone else has this sefer and he is reachable by train in 30 minutes. Bochrim were surprised that he did not buy the sefer. Chofetz Chaim said – seforim is gelt. Gelt is tzait. Tzait is Toirah.
YSL1234> Today I work as a programmer and learn as much as possible.
congrats. But this is a good question – seemingly not many people can hold middle ground. You either do not work at all, or work “full time”, that in USA means often overtime. What stops, say, a computer programmer to work part-time 20 hours/week? Is it pressure from the employer or contracting house? Or is it internal – hard to stop when you have a lucrative job going. Computer programming is often months-long projects. How about a 3-month full time contract and then 3-month-long learning? anyone tried such “seder”?
R Avigdor Miller teaches that we should learn lessons that are far from us, unless yuo want disasters closer to you.
The main lesson here is to not look for thrills. Lo b’ shamaim hi, and not on the floor of the ocen.
Teaching your own kids and saving on tuition and gas.
Working as an accountant at $100/hour for 10 hours a month.
Working as Uber driver on most lucrative routes, like nights and airports.
I am not sure how this works, but I think most drivers rush into the next ride. You can sit and learn waiting for a more lucrative, or closer to you, order.
Also, Uber has a benefit – free college tuition for Arizona State U online. That will let you transition smoothly into the $100/hour 1-hour a week role as an accountant or a lawyer, or a software developer.
Rav Itzele Peterburger preferred to work in his wife’s pub as serving drinks frees your head to ;earn while you are doing that, better than being a Rav according to him. Working at Starbucks might be a better alternative than serving drunks in our time. Starbucks also has Arizona State scholarship like Uber.
his brother Nathan built Lakewood Hotel because, I think, his visiting relatives, as Jews, had hard time finding hotel rooms.
Girls do not have a mitzva of learning Torah. Enroll them into an online general-studies school (some states have it public, others have affordable private options, including at least one yeshivish) – options vary based on whether you want more or less general education for your daughter. Then, prepare a field for her to learn and practice chesed – whether at home or in some other families or organization. Then, invite several friends to organize learning that includes middos and halochos and whatever else you consider important. If none of the parents are educated to teach and you can’t afford a tutor, do it online. If all good teachers in your town teach in schools during the day, move hour class to afternoon when lots of teachers will be happy to get extra pay.
At the end, learning a maseches well is probably the best thing one could do to show respect to his parent. Maybe a masechet that reflects the parent’s values.
Avira, your “we follow” reflects someone you follow, why you are talking for others? In this case, it is not even a moderni opinion, but straight from Lakewood.
TLIK, the words people use reflect values. so, if we adopt wrods without thinking, we adopt and propagate those values.
People who value word “frum” typically include in that those who are not nice to other people or break societal norms. Those who value “erliche” start shouting “hillul hashem”.
Chofetz Chaim, for example, writes bitterly that people consider some aspects bein adam l’havero “etza tova” rather than halakha that is as strict as kashrus.Chofetz Chaim also brings another dichotomy: “people say that in our times, one needs to be frum, but I say – you need to be klug, klug, and then frum”. That is, acting with sechel is the first defense – and the second – and chumros and obstinance the third.
amirican, my background is Litvish with some German influences and whatever countries my family travelled in last 100 years. I have Yeshivish, Modern, Sephardi, Chasidish (mostly Chabad) friends. Most have both good Jewish and general education. I enjoy asking them all questions 🙂
Indeed, Sephardim (or more precise – non-Ashkenazim, they didnt have to be in Spain) did not have haskala and all machlokets that came out of it. Of course, they lived side-by-side with Karaims centuries earlier.
“Charedi” is not a synonym of what was Judaism before, it is one of the modern responses to current condition.
Avira > mixed units and treif food really is mekarev people!
What I mean is that Six Day War (achieved by TzaHaL w/ Hashem’s help) changed views of many people on their religion. Not any more a nation suffering defeats and murder, but able to stand for itself. I know what you are going to say and what negative attitudes this also developed .. but it made some people give Judaism another look. It also changed how other people look at Jews and that also affected Jews second-hand.
Amirican, thanks for R Moshe’s quote. I heard this expression as an “litivishe saying”, but was not sure whether it has right pedigree or comes from some chiloni sources. Glad to hear that R Moshe approved it. I actually suggested ehrlich instead of frum when kids started using the latter term before I heard the expression, and I am glad that my intuition has a good source! thanks, again.
> yidden who are not meticulous about Halacha but may be very close to Hashem
Pirkei Avos disagreeS: lo am haaretz hosid