Always_Ask_Questions

There is a teshuva by R Ovadia Yosef that allows invalidating marriages in Israel done outside of Rabbanut on the logic that Rabbanut declared that all marriages in medinat Israel are supposed to be under their rules, and whoever does it outside is not following “dat moshe veisrael”. That means that R Ovadia halachically validates the political arrangement and also recognizes the border of the Medinah. That is, if one were to marry in Suria, presumably this will be ok.

Toras Moshe, is it clear from the context what period Chazon Ish is mentioning or was it a figure of speech?

Taking it seriously – such a woman would be also executed by greeks and romans, because that woman would be presumably trying to sneak into some men-only symposia or sport events. So, it is unfair to compare something that is common in our times and was uncommon at those times. Next, you’ll tell me that Rambam will be aghast seeing people marrying and learning before getting a job.

Here is an example: IIRC, there was a takonah to allow tefilin in the bathroom after an incident where (supposedly?) a student left tefillin outside and some lady picked it up and then came to the yeshiva and asked – who forgot this in my house? And the student jumped off the roof … I don’t know how gemorah knows that accusation was wrong, and I don’t know whether this lady was wearing pants, but her occupation seems clear. Still, she was allowed to come in the yeshiva and seemingly was not arrested there.

coffee > fed their kids and that made their kids entitled

I agree, and many others. Someone reported one of the gedolim talking in Boro Park saying “what is a luxury for you – is a necessity for the kids”.

none2 > I don’t think you’ll hear them arguing

Be gentle here, most of them (in my experience) do not even know why their places of worship are called “temples”.

> Jewish courts enforced

yes, there is a case in gemorah when someone takes off red scarf from a lady and she turns out to be persian, so the rav gets fined by persian court but says it was worth the money.

But not always. Sanhedrin moved out of lishkat hagazit when there were too many murders. I imagine, head coverings were not up to your standards also when murders were popular.

There is also a question whether courts would enforce all midrabanans.

somejew > Arab world want to mass murder all Jews while conveniently ignoring the clear truth that this fear is a direct explicit result of Zionist political activity in the region,

How is this reasonable? Middle East is full of fighting between different groups. They are killing their own brothers who happened to believe in a different version of the same religion. And if you truly belief that this is all Zionist fault, then you should simply put your group together and go talk to any of the tribes in the surrounding area and arrange to move into their territory. I am sure, at least one of those groups will be able to understand and honor your position. Let us know your new zip code!

ExCTL, you had me at the second doctorate! I can’t imagine going for the 2nd …
Maybe it is a yakkish thing – Herr Dr Dr …

a PhD in USA is really a sign that you are able to do research in general, not just on the narrow topic of your thesis?
then what does the second one mean!? That the first one was not good enough?!

I would do Latin to read Roman history in the original. Even reading english translations show things that we do not have in popular culture. for example, I thought that Roman republic ended when empire came. Not in the eyes of Romans – they simply considered it a republic with an emperor … Gemorah seems to be of the same opinion. Avoda Zara mentions that Roman heads of state (on the example of Antoninos) is not hereditary like in other countries. Antoninos asked R Yehuda – I can ask Senate for one favor – should I ask them to make my son emperor or should I ask to lower taxes for Jews? Answer: ask them for the son, and let the son ask for the Jews …

ExCTL, your knowledge of Latin notwithstanding, “yeshiva alumnus” makes as much sense as “Yale lamdan”, at least until yeshivos put Latin into their curricula.

with passing of time, I see the opposite in America – we have several generations of Yidden who are raised in peaceful environment (B’H). They have very remote connection to any Jewish idea of suffering and challenges. They feel entitled to all the benefits of free society while not feeling any obligations because they learned that they are following emes.

> Chareidim (Yeshivish and Chasidim) are the religious-right whereas the Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionists are the religious-left.

You are supposed to turn from their words not right, not left … I get it that we live in the left-wing society in multiple dimensions and many of us (you and me included) rail against the “left”. I can assure you that if US will become one big Alabama, or you will go back to Middle Ages, you will feel oppressed by the “religious right”.

We are talking about religious disagreement: should we keep away from the society or should we interact with that. Would then Rashbi be charedi and Yosef HaTzaddik a modern-O?

qwerty > *Either you’re right or I’m right. If you’re right so I never got to eat shrimp. If I’m right you’re losing out on Olam Habo.

Pascal wager. Sad that none of the 4 people heard of that.

none2> that’s delusional cuz that’s the parents job

When R Kotler opened his yeshiva, he had to convince parents to send kids to the yeshiva instead of college – and parents were able to pay. A couple of generations later, parents are unable to support next generation. The idea of yeshivos being responsible for the graduates is not mine. This is being discussed as a solution for college problem, where third parties/government are lending money with no controls: let colleges provide loans to students and then recover based on their earnings. I think, this is way more applicable to yeshivos, especially those that raised several generations of students. If they were confronted with the responsibility for future of their students, rabbonim will have more information about what they need to learn.

besalel > [muslim hadith] never return to the land of israel ever again.

As I understand, muslims also have a problem with losing territory that once was muslim. While the other major religion is concerned about saving souls, Muslims are looking to acquire countries where they establish the law. So, losing countries is a setback. Two such major countries are: Israeli and Spain.

Katan> the preference is to run away, not to fight.

This is exactly what Zionists did. So many Jews stayed in Europe fighting for “better future” against the Czar and everyone else – and did not survive. Zionists wisely escaped the continent on fire and enables survival of millions of Yidden. To what degree they did it with ruach hakodesh, or with wrong intentions that Hashem turned around to good – we can argue about. The “better” run away options were to run to America (that Rabbis warned against) or Uganda that was voted down.

NP> R’ Moshe holds that Today that we have Kollelim, learning in Kollel is a profession.

Well, not “today”, but 2-3 generations back.

1) does R Moshe approve of taking government funds that are allocated for people who are not able to work?

2) what would R Moshe say about situation after leaving kollel, when the person is not able to find a comfortable job, as recommended at the end of Kiddushin?
This problem actually has a solution: yeshiva should be responsible for the well-being of the graduates. If the student later on has job (and because of that) shidduch or marital problems, then yeshiva pays from their direct budget expenses for unemployment; for retraining; for marital counseling; for tuition and apartments for children. As Alter from Navordok said when someone suggested that he will donate a share of his olam haba to someone ilvolved in public mitzvos – how about donating some of your share in olam haze?

NP,
if looking at big picture, I think we live in unprecedented times for last 300 years, and we did not yet learn how to live with the society that changed so much. We know how many opinions existed at previous crises – Bavel, destruction of 2nd BM, encounters with Greeks, Romans, Christianity and Islam …

Looking at last 80 years: we have chareidi yesshiva or chasidic, RZ, “modern O”, Chabad approaches, each having their own achievements and downsides. We need to look honestly at that. Charedi approach achieved tremendous successes in creating and keeping large communities from remnants of what existed in Eastern Europe. I very much understand R Kotler’s approach confronted with American Jews who were so excited with material success that their children would join “American dream” with many of those assimilating. On the other hand, I see several issues that charedi approach does not address:

1) there are multitudes of Jews outside of their area of influence. They are not evil just because they are not wearing black hats. They are same type of Jews that we had in other communities over centuries. The difference is that they now can exist outside of Jewish communities. It is a big challenge of modernity. They need to be cared of. Chabad does a lot here. This was immediate goal of R Soloveitchik in 1930s – create serious observant Rabbis who can run shuls for these people (many of whom lived in small towns at the time).

2) how do we address modernity in a long term? do we pretend it did not happen and live like before? do we address those issues? On one hand, I find R Soloveitchik compelling when he writes (in 1950s): if we claim to have Truth from Hashem, then we should be addressing the world with our solutions, not hiding in the caves. At some point, if we refuse to live in the world Hashem gave us _today_, then we are not witnesses of Hashem’s Torah to the world… On the other hand, at what speed? It does seem legitimate to proceed slowly. As R Steinsaltz used to say, ask us in 50 years about halochos of electricity, ask us in 100 years about what was the meaning of Shoah, we are an old religion that takes time to come to conclusions.

3) when you understand that there are multiple legitimate approaches, and we might not know yet which one is right, and most likely each one is partially right, then there is a way to see who is reasonable – the one who appreciate at least some value in other movements, when they are doing it l’shem shamayim. There are many who do, and there are many who just advocate for their own movement.

hakatan > you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?

interesting question. From peshat, it seems that same people who previously mistreated Yiftach, now called for his help. I don’t know whether that group consulted daas Torah. Do you have any meforshim on this topic?

of course, this presumes that markets work. When would markets fail?

1) government not allowing competition
This has some effect on fridges due to recent regulations on increase energy efficiency and such. This increases costs.

2) lack of information.
This might play a role: if consumers do not get information about total ownership costs and obsolescence. For that, you performed public service by making us all think about the issue. Next step – collect solid statistics comparing reliability and costs for different models and publicize it.

Menachem,
you probably will not forget the kid in the car on the way to Disney Land. Your daily commute is the problem and you do not need the phone then, unless you are an amazon or uber driver.

Driving is an experience where you fully depend on other people for staying safe. Think when you are on an undivided highway – what a hidden nes that all vehicle coming towards you keep their vehicle within the correct lane …

This is discussed in Avoda Zara 20s about walking along the road with a non-Jew, or a Jewish robber or thief. There are halochos of defensive walking – don’t join them if you can, walk on the side of his weapon, walk on top (back when going down, front-side when going up), telling them that you are going further than you intend to. These halochos apply to any non-Jew, you don’t know his intentions, but you take safety measures.
This was taught in yeshivos in all countries (one example – students of R Akiva, another – Rav Yehuda).

These halochos can be directly translated into defensive driving – avoid traffic times, do not drive in blind spot, let speeding drivers pass, keep your children from running in the parking lot while others drive fast and with phones (the scariest thing I see when going to shopping malls in “frum” towns).

> The parts of modern Ukraine that are more Western oriented, are generally the parts that were historically part Hungary and other countries such as Poland.

exactly. Kiev was under russia for several hundred years, indeed. Before that, under Litvish and Tatars. They are a product of a big bilbul and were under a lot of prosecution from many.

> you’d choose to use a non-frum Conservative “rabbi” Abraham Heschel
Because it is a powerful teaching that I learnt from an O Rabbi (and he was not conservative in 1930 Germany).

> humongeous percentage of former Soviet Israelis are halachicly goyim is an undisputed fact.

I am not disputing that, I am just thinking it is not higher than American. How many people are Jewish in your local reform temple (is there one in Monsey?). You simply look at your own from inside and differentiate; and you are looking at others (russians, israelis, sephardim) and judge them as one mass. What next – you’ll be verifying holocaudt survivors whether they are eligible for cohanim? As mentioned in another threat, your lack of empathy puts children of all your wives into a questionable halachik status.

HaKatan > These wicked thugs intentionally destroyed decades worth of stored food, plunging the city into horrific hunger, as the gemara describes, just to attempt to force Jews to join them in fighting the Romans rather than the Rabbonim’s approach of making peace.

Exactly. I think the lesson is that Jews in EY should keep their joint strength and supply intact, instead of destroying it on inter-Jewish fights. As Rabbonim were willing to live in peace with Romans, without demanding special privileges and transfer payments from the Caesar; our generation should be able to live in peace with the current government without trying to complicate their fight against true enemies.

amom,
I am not arguing with your lifestyle choices, H’Sh. Just discussing theory here. There are not that many demeaning tasks in the house that your kids are not capable of doing. As my kids report, many of their friends have no idea about chores, they have non-English speaking cleaning stuff doing everything for them. When in camp, they struggle with very simple support. And some, not all, of these families rely on public assistance to cover their non-working lifestyle. What is going to happen with these kids, especially girls, when they become responsible for their own household with husbands learning and limited income? As gemora says in Kiddushin ~ 29 – a father not teaching his son a profession is teaching him robbery (listut).

HaKatan > You seem to be proposing that because women know secular subjects on advanced levels that, therefore, they must also learn gemara (on high levels, lectures, BM, et al.) I don’t see any logic connecting those two.

Right. I am not sure why you can’t connect, maybe we have different understanding of what Torah or what secular subjects are. You can, just guessing, define them on a simple level – Torah is learning details of mitzvos and science is learning physics and math, and there is no connection between them. Or, you can say – Torah is Hashem’s lesson to us on what the world is, and Science is a humble human effort of trying to understand that same world.
on a very simple level – if you look at Gemora (say Avodah Zora 27) or at Rambam, you’ll see a lot of “secular” knowledge about medicine and science discussed by Rabbonim. So, clearly there is an intersections between the two.

> Judge Ruchie Freier, for example, is a chassidic woman.
This is only half of the story. Let’s look at two possibilities: (1) chassidic woman who went into professions as you mentioned. (2) people who are already exposed to secular subjects – this one you ignore

So, your chassidic secular judge is involved in a mitzva of helping non-Jews to achieve justice. Do you think she would benefit from looking at Jewish concepts of justice, for example justice v. rahmanus debate in Sanhedrin? in studying halochos on mitzvos bnei Noach? In studying how rabbonim issued takonos to protect society from going into a wrong direction? She might also need to encounter practical situations where she is invited to a lunch with non-Jewish dignitaries – how does she navigate her concerns with tznius and kashrus v. respect to authority? These are not simple issues, and she is not always able to call a Rabbi with a shailah.

Now, to the Jewish woman who is not very observant and has knowledge of secular subjects. She learned in her high-school a little of Judaism that consists of some boring rules that she needs to follow. She is not excited about them; she did not get good explanations from her teachers. What if she encounters fascinating books or lecture by R hirsh or by R Sacks – that is able to explain Jewish knowledge in the context of human civilization as a whole? She’ll surely change her attitude, and she’ll run to the closest kollel clamoring for a boy she wants to support on her professor’s salary. Win-win?

smerel > And he explicitly referred to the movement to move to Eretz Yisriel due to the expulsion from parts of Russia as kibbutz golyus.

Thanks. I did not have a very reliable source for this story, it is impossible that context was stipped off for partisan reasons.
As to RZ, the famous quote that I think I saw in reliable sources is that Chofetz Chaim abandoned his plan to settle in Petach Tikva in the apartment that was already purhased for him (on rechov Chafetz Chaim) – that if he comes to P-T, he’ll go to Yerushalaim, and if he comes to R Kook first, Mishna Berurah won’t be accepted in Old Yishuv and vice versa. Says a lot what Chofetz Chaim thought about partisan fights.