Always_Ask_Questions

How about putting a dorm in Boro Park and see who stays.

RebE, I think, these are different organizations. Note that some other yeshivot register in a similar way, judging that they publish their graduation statistics as required by Ed. Dept, see another thread. So, theoretically, a similar club can be attempted, h’v, in other places, unless YU wins the case, BEH.

ujm > mdd, are you suggesting that we need to thank Stalin?

USSR murdered Jews – rabbis, businessmen, anyone who was against communists, introduced shmad in Russia, Ukraine. When they started WW2 together with Nazis, they did the same in Poland, Lita, Latvia, Bessorabia killing & arresting both Jews and non-Jews … Maybe Sara Rifka need to read or talk to those who survived (like R Feinstein, Menachem Begin, Mir Yeshiva, etc). A lot of people, including Rabonim, including did not talk publicly about it but their views are known. When they were consulted about activities to support Jews left in Russia, R Teitz, R Feinstein, Lubavicher Rebbe all favored secret activities or private agreements and were afraid of angering NKVD with public actions. As you see, so many people drink bad tea and fall from windows even in our days. Think, how this was probably happened when Stalin/USSR was in full power (Trotsky, for example).

eddiee > I only question anyone’s right to demand that they change the way they operate.

This is an interesting point to discuss. While, yes, school is a private business, both American law and halakha treat education differently from food. In halakha, usual competition restrictions and neighbor rights are suspended, for example – you can open a new school right new the old, and you can have kids making noise in the yard. So, when a school becomes a community institutions, they become responsible to the good of the community and have to take kids’ interests into account. So, if you feel schools are under-performing in some aspects, you should have a right to (respectfully) voice your concerns both privately and publicly and deserve to hear an answer.

anon > is the lack of non commissioned officers.

This is not a bug, but a general feature of communist regimes, whether USSR, Norks or CCP: you are supposed to follow the party line. If you do something and it works, your bosses will own it (cf. Obama’s “you didn’t build it”. If you are wrong, you go to Siberia. No incentives to do anything unless told and then, only when forced to.

common > feel free to join the conversation

middos alert. Why not help educate me and others.

Maybe Israeli school have some basic literacy tests in Hebrew and Chumash? Maybe those can be adjusted for generic observant public? I think every parent should get access to test results for his own kid and for the class in general, both in kodesh & chol, to make rationale decisions.. There is also research how to evaluate teacher quality using test results: you don’t look at just the class test as it is affected by who goes to that class, but you measure comparative improvement for each students from year to year.

common, you probably see from my questions that I am only planning to. On masechet Ketubot right now 🙂

ymribiat, yes, these numbers require more to be analyzed. These are just the first I found.
yes it is 0-1 share.

more from the same list.
SEMINAR L’MOROS BAIS YAAKOV 0.215
TALMUDICAL SEMINARY OHOLEI TORAH 0.336
UNITED TALMUDICAL SEMINARY 0.223

Yserbius, the changes in economy in last 100 years are such that rather than having a small number of business parnasim and lots of poor yidden, we have a large group of middle-class self-supporting people who are not ultra-rich, unless they are in high-tech or finance. More observant community kept more of the old structure. I don’t know what would be the totals. Census numbers might tell you some of the story.

Avira > i was there – go teach in satmar and find out

Right, but we need to learn to defend ourselves without experiencing everything ourselves. Your arguments are full of self-confidence, but YSerbius disagrees. Any possible way you can construct a verifiable argument?

LostSpark> if there is a long game strategy to undermine the yeshivos that lay hidden behind the idea of compulsory education.

I doubt that. Idea of universal education arrived to US with Puritans and worked well (comparative to the alternative). I listened with kids to Ellis Island recordings of Jews saying how happy they were when they were able to go to a free high school (one girl’s father was saving for years for her high school back in Poland). Jewish schools in NY area were able to not be fully complaint due to their political efforts. When you rely on politics, there is always a political risk, especially when you are still a minority…

common, b’H. I am confused though – takanot are supposed to be for everyone, how could you have halls “in all price ranges”. maybeyou mean that some cities have takanot and others do not.

Also, on covid pandemic, as most people and businesses qualified, it is probably not even a gift but a tax refund, or just currency debasement leading to inflation. Not accepting it is like not accepting tax refund or accepting that your money is now worth 10% less. So, this becomes a matana from you to (mostly) non-Jews and this is questionable according to sources I quoted above.

An excuse that the recipient will do something for you is not applicable – do you expect IRS to pick up your phone call faster if you won’t accept the money!?

> is there anything available from a man?

why would you want an inferior product?!

Women score better on English and Reading ACT.
Some estimate that women say 20K words a day, 3 times more than men. They are definitely bekiyot.

> Which Acharonim allowed you to accept or use the non-Jewish cash sent to you by Uncle Sam during the Covid pandemic?

ujm, thanks for giving me an opportunity to review halochos of matonos (that is what it was, right?)
Sources below are from “Halachically speaking” v 16-1 by Kof-K R Moishe Dovid Lebovits. I did not review them yet, feel free to help review them.

it is indeed praiseworthy not to accept gifts!
Rambam Hilchos Zichiyah V’matanah 12:17. Brachos 10b Rashi, Maharsha
S’A C.M. 249:5.
one who avoids presents will definitely avoid stealing
one who accepts presents will constantly want money. Furthermore, one will come to flatter those who give him gifts. If one sees a person who gave him gifts doing something wrong, he will not rebuke him.13 In addition, one who receives gifts thinks that he will live off the gifts and neglects to realize that everything is from Hashem
If one receives a present from a non-Jew, the first reason would not apply in this case since one may not flatter a non-Jew, but the others reasons may still apply. Many are lenient and say that it does not apply to a present from a non-Jew.

Mishneh Halachos 15:215 If someone is lacking and does not have what to live on, he may accept gifts. This did not apply to me, but did presumably to those who lost jobs. Frankly, all jobs were uncertain at the time.

R Belsky (no specific page given): There is no issue with accepting WIC checks from the government as one pays taxes and this is not considered taking gifts. This should kal vehomer apply to Covid funds to those who pay more taxes than getting back.

OK to accept small gifts (Sifsei Chachamim, Bereishis 12:13, Mishneh Halachos 17:137). These checks were definitely way less that what I sent the government.

some other interesting halochos:
If one who is learning wishes to accept money from his parents in order for him to continue learning, there is no issue of soneh matanos.
Any gift a parent gives to a child is not included in soneh matanos. It is considered a mitzvah since giving gifts to one’s child brings the parent and child closer, positively impacting the child.
Even if a woman is careful and wishes not to accept presents during the year from her husband because she does not want to accustom herself to presents, in honor of Yom Tov she may accept presents
Others mention that when the Yevanim ruled over Eretz Yisrael, learning Torah was not allowed. When Klal Yisrael was victorious over them, the children were given money to entice them to learn. Therefore, the custom evolved to give out money on Chanukah

One is forbidden to give a non-Jew a gift. However, if one will benefit from giving the non-Jew a present, it is permitted. Based on this, it is customary to give one’s mailman a present during the non-Jewish holiday season

Additionally, the poskim say that if one has a personal relationship with the non-Jew he may give him a present even if he will not receive any benefit in return

> They didn’t interview a single average chasidishe businessman – that’s where they mostly go. And they’re very, very successful in business. They’re also very creative;

This is true, but both sides – NYT and bloggers lack hard data in support of their position. Say, NYT quotes millions going to schools but do not divide it per student. Arguments here are similar baseless.
Maybe we can try producing some numbers that will show something that all sides can acknowledge?

Standardized tests would be one. I don’t buy Avira’s argument about minhag of filling tests randomly. If they knew the material, they would fill it out. But maybe they were studying probability theory…. Some of the schools my kids went did state or private school tests but did not disclose results to parents, maybe others know.

There are also some zip codes that are mostly Jewish. We can look at census data: their average incomes, poverty rates, welfare rates – we would need to correct for age and family size. Anyone wants to start?

Also, a small number of yeshivos (that register as educational like YU?) report federally required data for colleges, here are several numbers – percentage of graduates that earn >= 28K/year 10 years afer, I think. Of course, kollel, motherhood, and undisclosed incomes might have effect, but at least these are known numbers:

for comparison:
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK 0.877
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY 0.897
CUNY BROOKLYN COLLEGE 0.706
CUNY BRONX COMMUNITY COLLEGE 0.613

YESHIVA UNIVERSITY 0.798 (500 out of 4,000)
LANDER UNIVERSITY 0.659
TOURO COLLEGE 0.531
BETH MEDRASH GOVOHA OF AMERICA 0.469

CENTRAL YESHIVA TOMCHEI TMIMIM LUBAVITZ 0.407
RABBINICAL COLLEGE BOBOVER YESHIVA BNEI ZION 0.33
YESHIVA OF NITRA RABBINICAL COLLEGE 0.274
YESHIVA GEDOLAH IMREI YOSEF D’SPINKA 0.271
RABBINICAL COLLEGE OF OHR SHIMON YISROEL 0.156
YESHIVATH VIZNITZ 0.127 (out of 4,000 total colleges, there are 10 lower than this)

common, as the next generation says: LOL. You are quoting Haaretz to characterize R Burg. Do you have better sources? Who knows what was the story in that gymnasium.
Other quotes about him:
He arranged Jewish prayer services in private homes after German synagogues were burned, and worked underground to help Jews escape to Britain and the Netherlands. His mother and grandmother died in Nazi concentration camps. [1]
Also, Lados group included both Polish diplomats and Agudah people.

> Rabbi Goldshmidt is not a govermental appointee and hold no offical position

So he does not have to go back and attend Putin’s funeral? And the other chief rabbis also? Some good news.

DontMind, I am one of those parents … and you can look at threads discussing education, there are a lot of people of all ages with different opinions. Girls (or their parents) are indeed less realistic. My theory is that for a potential learning couple – a boy needs to show years of work, while a girl needs to develop interest in finding a learning boy, which is way easier (in a short term). So, an obvious disconnect, more girls can achieve that stage when taught that way at school.

Not trying to give an advice beyond most generic. Maybe, you need to show your abilities in some other way – in chesed, working prospects .. go join an organization that works with unobservant yidden or sich kids; find an exciting job; brush up on your math & English skills, even if you are behind, you probably have enough skills. You need to define yourself in a positive way, not just in your relationship to what you are not. This may take time.

Hm, what a coincidence – both England and the Colony have both a dour man at the head, supported by a powerless woman with the same name. Except Joe is Jr (2nd) and Charles is the 3rd.

ujm, you could find out by a simple “how do you do” when you see her, but you have to ask thru a 3rd person given your stance on talking to women.

Avira > What about just using it for business and not having it at home at all,

I think it is fair if this works for you. I do prefer to work from home as much as I can, so that I can model (hopefully) proper behaviors to kids and also learn with them. And I had to deal with some inappropriate internet usage with older kids, so was thinking for a time to go the way you describe, but it evened out and younger ones do not seem to have these issues, bli ayn hara, maybe because they see the older ones.

The downside of your approach is lack of proficiency in skills that their generation will be using. Internet is not like TV that will quickly go away, it has sufficient positive content. At some point, humanity, and Yidden in particular, will figure out how to filter out the wrong parts. Maybe, we can re-use Chinese firewall software, I hear it works to keep 1 bln people under control ..

So, I don’t want the kids to start typing with one finger when they are 20 and not being able to distinguish between a research paper and a facebook post. So, this is not just part of the mitzva of giving them a job skill, but also of teaching them swimming (in life).

R Meir Shapiro and others were elected members in Sejm, not government officials, like CR. In addition to mentioned, R Mordechai Dubin was elected in Latvia. Current chief Rabbis in Russia shows us that decisions are not always easy to make: one abandoned his post and fled, another one still there (I am not sure if these are the only two, maybe there are more). Presumably, each of them have some sevoros to support their opposite course of action. So, if you bump at a Chief Rabbi at Queen’s funeral, please don’t make scene.

My mesorah is herring, shnaps and gemora vort by the bar mitzva. The main place where a bar mitzva boy is discussed in a chumash is ben soreh and moreh. Was he eating at the bar mitzva is not clear.

Weddings and funeral were always going towards more expensive ones, there are lots of takonos in Gemora and later trying to make them less extravagant.

Restaurant business has a very low profit margin and high risk of failure. So, probably, yetzer hara to use something cheaper is very high. Still, how often do we have failures like that? Halakha often uses “rov”, not absolute guarantee. Maybe if you buy 3 chickens from 3 different restaurants and then mix you up, you can go by rov?!