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DY > taking the Rambam out of context, and even more so out of historical and halachic context.
this is exactly my point. Avram above defends applying Pirkei Avos literally to current social situation. At the same time, here yo are calling to put Rambam away into historical context. Tiuvta Avram tiuvta, do we agree?
At the same time, one does not reject social takanos (of which Rambam is, it is in the book of halakha, but Pirkei Avos is not, it is more of etza, I think) just because we don’t like it. And even if circumstances call to follow a different advice, we can still take the lessons and aspiration from both Pirkei Avos and Rambam.
Avram, not defending a particular read of the Mishna, but there’s a clear difference between mitzvah from the Torah and a social rabbinical regulation. Gemora is full of social and psychological insights that guide their decisions and it is not such a big leap that some respectful adjustments need to happen. Many people for example ignore Rambam’s and others position forbiding payment for Torah learning etc so you may want to answer on substance instead of accusing him of kefirah
common, I understand. I am still not sure how ti distinguish between those who are unable and those who are unwilling or confused in their middos. We used to have kahalim that will provide support – upon investigation. Otherwise, this becomes lifnei ever. A guy travels around to raise funds for his firstborn, and think, great this worked, I’ll do the same for the rest.. If he were to have it hard time, maybe he’ll go get a job… I am not advocating refusing tzedokah, but these community policy questions exist even if refuse to acknowledge them.
ujm, I fully agree and fully respect people who live like that … It would seem that if we were to optimize life according to Torah principles, a man should first learn Torah and basics of math and English, then spend 2 years acquiring a profession (4 year college, including CLEPs and yeshiva credits), and maybe another two to get MS by age 25, and then continue working or doing business, say, 2 days a week, or 3 hours a day, whatever is better for his learning schedule. In this way, he can spend most of his life learning and maybe doing chesed using his professional skills (heal, teach ..). Unfortunately, seeing everyone else’s standard of living makes it almost impossible to limit your quest for gashmiyus.
I can’t relate to any of these issues that you discuss in such depth and detail. Would appreciate a couple of links so that I can educate myself.
RebE, maybe the secret of maturity was that Rivka’s father, a tzaddik as he was, sent her to work from early age?
Mazel tov, looks like we got a new editor – now defending Israeli secular schools and Persian monarchs. higher standards for 9th of Av? I respectfully submit. Or maybe my writing is getting even more obscure.
where are takanah weddings? I understand that several popular Jewish towns in US limit how much people spend on weddings to a degree that, B’H, weddings halls are full (presumably not just by growing population but also by OOTners coming for cheap weddings and reduced supply of providers due to lower prices). Is this working? Is it also done in Israel?
Syag, just as I am calling for understanding and commend you for the same, you are calling me out for attitude … We see here that several people with “working minhagim” do not understand the need to support kids after wedding, so lack of (immediate) work prospects clearly affects the situation. for example, working chosson vekallah should be able to get a mortgage to finance a house based on their salaries, maybe with some down-payment support from parents.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach. While normative American saves for his retirement and expects kids to pay for their mortgage; in this approach parents pay for apartments, while children will then start working later and then pay for their children and maybe even respect & support parents in their old age al pi halakha, so parents need less of savings. So, if this works for most people, then it’s fine. If, as alleged here, it does not work for too many people and they are collecting, then clearly something is not right.
Who knows the Israeli tour guide who pointed tourists to the kever of Shmuel when someone noted that he already pointed to his kever a day before! The guide replied that that was Shmuel Alef, and this is Shmuel Beit!
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Currently Azeri Bayraktars are flying looking for Armenian rebels, maybe they’ll find the teva, hope they do not bomb it!
It was customary to temporarily bury bodies in Bavel and after a year to carry bones to Eretz Isroel. Why not for Mordechai and Esther? Maybe Mordechai was buried in Persia due to his government status, similarly to Yosef?! edited
Is there also a Muslim tradition of Yonah’s kever in Mosul (destroyed by ISIS).
Killing without traceability already exists. How many times someone drank tea and died without a polonium test?! The scary thing is like you say: targeting groups of people, not only age but also race and ethnicity DNA and immunity system. For example, a country can give a vaccine to the citizens and then unleash the virus, or just prepare the vaccine in advance. For example, maybe Russia created their Sputnik before COVID started and thus were relatively fast to the market. Imagine the current war without mRNA vaccines, while the West still in 3 year long lockdown
Shalom, I think Saudis just announced a tiny increase in production. Lhavdil, oil prices are like walls that lowered out of respect to r eliezer but didn’t fall out of respect to r Yehoshua
Those who criticize apartment buyers do not understand the difficult and different situation those parents are, as Syag is saying. If children do not have immediate prospects for high earnings, how are they expected to live? Parents can’t really complain as they put the kids into this position by not giving them work skills. Beh, kids will eventually find a way to get some parnosah and then will do the same for their own kids, midah kneged midah..
It is a really hard question how to respond to the requests: on one hand, one wants to help a person in need, on another – you are enabling a multigenerational problem … Maybe provide funds to chatans apprenticeship or help them buy a business instead of an apartment
Israeli rent v buy. Many governments including US support buying as it makes for stronger communities. Israel has I believe low mobility so buying makes sense. An anecdote that someone said something is not convincing. Another guy could have started a town without saying it. Are there actual policies that prevent rentals? There might be but you didn’t bring any
Avira > briskers don’t get jobs in ponevezh.
Avira, it makes sense that if you do not want to accept government money, you should not be paid by the organization that does. You can’t complain if you separate yourself for the tzibur. Do you know what is the current status of Rav Schach’s view that government money should be used only in part? Is that part now same as it was or different (I presume you would need to count all indirect streams of funds to kollel members in that, not just direct yeshiva funding, given complexity of Israeli politics)
Here is what I referred to:
Sukkah 34: Shmuel threatens sellers of hadasim that he will publicize his opinion on less hidurim hadasim
Pesachim 30 – similarly, he’ll allow less mehadrin pots on Pesachre: M’A R Krochmal (Bach’s student, about time of M’A) actually approved Nicholsburg community ordinance boycotting shabbos fish. From a secondary source, it is not clear whether he was enthusiastic or so-so about this.
pre-DNA targeted technology is now used not only by USA: Russia apparently just killed a Ukrainian oligarch who was involved in grain trade using a precision missile. So, all you need is to know where someone sleeps.
Winter? Expect Europeans travelling to NYC to live in heated hotels.
jackk > That is not even an opinion. That is complete politics. It works for xxxx
May I kindly suggest that you post these responses in one of that media, rather than bringing this nonsense here. This is a Jewish site, and you are supposed to practice kosher discussing. If I were interested in learning fox or msnbc opinion, I would read it there (I do not).
But that note notwithstanding, let me help you cheer us up: Biden’s popularity is also going up for several weeks already! and is already reaching 40%.
Avira > Perhaps he should work for the sanitation department.
I am glad that you support the work for yidden rather than taking tzedoka. Warning though: these jobs are lucrative and are often run by mafia. Also there are two guys there and it is not clear which position is more hashuv: the guy upfront thinks “at least I am not actually throwing garbage” and the guy in the back says “this front guy is a slacker while I am really doing the whole job”.
I have an idea that when donating funds sufficient to get physical confirmation – plague, wall, etc, insist on a record “in honor of Anonymous” so that people internalize the idea that it is possible not to show off. You can add something like “anonymous lawyer”, or “in honor of Hungarian Jews” if you want.
Note also that we have yakum purkan for people who give wine for kiddush and not those who put names on the walls, as the latter already got their reward and do not need more encouragement. Nowadays, I hear same that upkeep funds are harder to find than new buildings.
Avira, what if the man’s only professional achievement were in swimming and this is an only legit job he could get? I know someone who got a psak to work in a ballet studio. Decided not to use it, though.
Stopping peaking behind the mehitzah would also work.
jackk> That Republicans think that high prices is a bonanza
Look, it is a nature of politics – if your side messes up, you will be criticized for that. On the other hand, to create so much pain to the country and then to start pointing out to every little improvement off the bottom you reached is really irritating.
I would read this criticism with more attention if it were to say: “I personally do not publicize every time I drop a million dollars”.
If you really hate it, ask how much they paid, and pay double to take the plaque off.
Moishe, for simple comparison:
imagine Pres. Bush’s wife, a librarian, opening a Chinese or Russian-connected business and earning millions of dollars from that.moishe,
note the difference between rich people going in politics, and politicians becoming rich while or after being in office. With the first group, we need to give some leeway for people to protect themselves, otherwise, nobody will go into politics, and we will only have professional politicians. Romney is now considered a standard of a kosher politicians – but his business experience was perverted and laughed at whenever he ran for office against Dems. (caveat: making sure they do not depend on foreign sources is legit).My thoughts on Trump specifically:
1) He was pretty transparent that he does not plan to do tax disclosures before elections. So, voters were able to take that into account
2) I am pretty much shocked that after so many years of investigations, he is not yet convicted of something. I was pretty sure that he would have been. I can’t imagine the level of kashrus in his business practices, as one of the remaining accusation is giving tzedoka to a Jewish school… Note that it is already documented that at least several people committed crimes or “mistakes” in pursue of these investigations.
3) level of suspicion should be proportional to expectations. If I hear accusations that T uses his presidency to sell rooms in his hotel, or his daughter gets trademarks approved in China – it is something possible and could be on this or that side of ethical behavior that arise in the course of running businesses that exist for many years. Compare it with a president’s son and uncle with minimal qualifications who get investments and payments from the world hot spots. Totally different level.It is understandable that this problem raises up again. See hemline index – an economic theory that the hemlines raise and drop with the stock market.
ramateshkolnick, apologize for being so incredulous. In other words: I do agree with you in worrying about state of US politics. On the other hand, US strength exists in spite, and sometimes because of, the problems that you mentioned! US system is designed to channel yetzer hara into shouting, posting, and voting (see writings by Madison). So, if you would like to make the point that colonies are doomed and should join the CommonWealth, you need to have a stringer argument than what you mentioned.
some people also get psak to be where one should not for parnosa purposes.
As to youtube, two technical solutions:
1) filters (or not watching youtube)
2) start frumtube or wutube where membership will be verified by gender as certified by a RavUK?! Pot. Kettle. Black.
And how long can you hold the grudge that Gen Washington made the streets in US not safe for Brits?let’s try to judge ujm l’tzad zchus. Maybe he went to the same BY some of my daughters did and learned to use “modern” as a substitute for the words BY grads are not supposed to use.
I am taking upon myself, bli neder, to reduce consumption of expensive meat till the end of this week, not counting tisha b’av. will also not heat my pool and sauna.
Why would someone with achievements run for any office? It is our problem. No incentives and lots of negatives – you can get businesses exposed, get banned from twitter and get exposed to covid. So, we end up with those who are looking to public office as a way to get respect and earn money. I agree it is better to have millionaires to run for office rather than office-holders becoming millionaires during or after service.
RW > Maybe just boycott
This is a good idea, actually used in halakha. In gemora, I think, Shmuel threatened merchants that he will let people to skip some mitzva (was it fish on shabbos, I think I am conflating multiple stories here, sorry), similarly medieval times and also in 20th century NY against a sweet wine manufacturer that raised prices on their wine.
RebE > There are two reasons for inflation, demand pull and cost pus
Either way it is Biden’s fault (paraphrasing the kid who blames his grades on either genetics or environment – parents’ fault either way).
jackk > This is very depressing for Republicans
as others pointed out, inflation is depressing indeed. But it is double depressing that a Jewish person will copy news media in their transparent influence campaign of writing daily about “decreasing” prices on front page, while writing about growing prices previously on Page 16. Either you are yourself are such a pure neshomah that is easily influenced by such tricks, or you think it is worth our time to engage in propaganda on a Jewish site. Haval hazman.
> As for her bank/stocks etc. – loshan horah and none of our business
Knowing finances of public figures is not loshon hara. Moshe gave a full accounting in Pekudim, kal v’homer Ms Pelosi should. It is a sad, and corrupt fact that, as I understand, there are only partial restrictions on congressmen trading stocks that they control. Not only it creates either corruption, or appearance of it, but also creates an incentive for them to exercise more control over economy.
> after having admitted she grew up MO.
this is way over your usual anti-social behavior. You do not remind a baaalos teshuva about previous avonos. This is a big aveira. How do you return her respect of other posters now!?
RW, I am not sure what is happening with you. You obviously know how to read English as you are replying to the posts, but then we started discussing a paper by Gates and you obviously did not bother reading it, or, presumably, any other. You are discrediting all thoughtful anti-vaxers out there!
Not Ch’V relating to any particular tragedy, but there is an appropriate R Avigdor Miller’s story that, I think, I brought in here recently: someone invites a beggar from the street, goes to get him another cup of tea, and the beggar meanwhile throws hot water into baby’s face. Incomprehensible would be the first reaction, but it is putting undeserved guilt onto Hashem. This person, while engaged in a mitzva, did an aveira of leaving a baby near an unstable person and was punished directly through that action. Not saying this is always an explanation, but this seems to be a reasonable way to look at things generally – not putting guilt on some people, but as public policy.
I am very happy that so many different leaders agree on the term! And it even has it’s own wiki page.
A perennial question comes up in the news when an unexpected petirah is reported: maybe it was a vaccine or a virus.
A jan 2022 article in Palos analyzes UK data for a million of patients. They show 10x increase in cardiac events first several weeks after COVID, getting back to normal after 3 to 12 months. Refer to the article for specific details if you have something to be concerned.
Cardiometabolic outcomes up to 12 months after COVID-19 infection. A matched cohort study in the UK
I am changing my opinion here, people should go. This is simply theoretical as I’ll explain below, please consult your rav, parents and spouses for actual halakha.
There is a difference between punishment coming to us directly from Hashem and via cruel humans. In the first case, endangering yourself is pure rebellion against Hashem: you sent a virus but we don’t care. In the second case, it is legit to stand up to the reshayim, even to change how we tie our shoes, as ShA says… So, it may be a good thing to go to uman, daven for demise of reshayim and end of suffering they are causing. And bring some business and human worth to the locals.
Is there a danger? Only if russkies will decide to make a point and send a missile to the kever. Not something they can’t do. Or getting into a drunken confrontation with locals. They are probably armed this year as 2nd amendment is now adopted there. So be warned.
Pennsylvania is indeed interesting to watch: general trends are R, but personal D as you described. 2 years ago, Trump asked Biden during debate what will happen with fracking in PA, and Biden refused to answer. By now, the question is more visible and the answer is clear.
Menachem, I agree on greatness of challenges starting at enlightenment. A lot of people lived happily before that without encountering challenges to their faith or simply opportunities to go otd. Spinoza could, but not people of lower abilities. So, there was less concern about amei haatetz in some sense. Yes they were irritating, and sometimes deserving of pity, but nobody worried that a Jewish farmer will stop producing potatoes. We even had extra days to read megillah when they come to the market. Too much to expect them to come on Purim itself, and it was okay. This all changed with haskala, and maybe reaching a new level with current generation, when they can travel the world on the phone before modeh ani.
Thanks for the references. So, I read The Next Epidemic — Lessons from Ebola by Bill Gates NEJM April 2015. Make sure to read appendix that is a little more detailed. It is not very insightful in terms of pandemic prediction: he is mostly referring to ebola and HIV and Africa, while mentioning that airborne diseases are most dangerous. He is not even mentioning SARS or propensity of China to send new viruses to the world. Maybe PC police didn’t let him. At the same time, his analysis of potential response is very good. He identifies weak spots in our defense systems: lack of surveillance, slow 3day pcr testing, unpreparedness to manufacture new vaccines in several months, and more. I suggest reading this short article for more details.
In retrospect, if some of his recommendations were acted upon, a lot of lives would have been saved from COVID. Really dispiriting that even an influential guy like that was not able to move the government to act. Maybe he should have locked them out of windows until they do.
RW,
do tell me this is a result of your research, or do tell us where you acquired this information so that I can review it.Having a “mock pandemic” event is a good thing; if more people would have done that, we would have been better prepared. Next, firefighter training causes fire, and army exercises provoke invasions.
shrinking labor force is at least in part due to lower labor force participation, not just demographics.
possibly multiple factors behind lower force participation. maybe some people, esp ladies, found working from home helpful, and decided to either (slowly) switch careers or stay at home. Some people retired in last 2 years, especially at people-facing positions. Most of senior doctors we went to, retired. Some moved to EY ..