Always_Ask_Questions

Moses Montefiore was aware of the ban, and tried to abide by it – he was in a fully closed box, carried around by the Muslims. He was still pelted in the best knesset and said that he won’t do it again. This was in 1855, at the end Crimean war with British having an upper hand. in 1856, Ottomans formally allowed Temple Visits (with individually paid for tickets). Baron Rotschild went up several times despite being admonished by Rabbis, including R Kook. Theodore Hertzl did not go in respect to the ban.

n0, I agree. But what kind of community are you talking about – are these working parents with limited Jewish education, or are the parents yeshiva-educated themselves?

If the former, then maybe continuing educating parents should be a priority. As they say “a father who tells his son to learn [rather than learning himself] will raise a son who will be telling his son to learn”

In the latter, then something is wrong with the educational system.

One Rav after making Aliya was immediately asked – which party he is for (at the time when several hareidi parties were budding). He replied – party of Moshe Rabeinu.

n0 > entirety of our chinuch system needs a lot more investment – and not just financial

we should acknowledge that we now have more investments than probably ever in history, whether financial in some schools, in obtaining gov funding, or in numbers in other schools. This is a tremendous success of post-WW2 communities. I think further progress should be more in re-directing our efforts to increasing quality.

Gefilte: Then, years down the line, he doesn’t has such a passion anymore, but decided to stay in kollel as a means of supporting himself

I wonder whether it is time to use modern means to follow up on these questions – surveys, assessments, third party certification, “ratemykollel”. In olden times, learners or poor who reqyire help would be directly observed by benefactors. Rambam says that we feed a visiting poor person in an emergency, but otherwise check out first whether he is a trickster. In modern times, there are so many opportunities to misuse funds, people should not be put in the “lifnei ever” position. For example, giving some funds and hoping they will learn ..

As Gemora says, the best way to spend a sudden inheritance is to buy thin glass (that will break), silk clothes (that will rip) and not supervise the workers. As Torah is our nahala, and learning is avodah, the same should apply. Or, to quote a non-Jewish tzadik talking to a non-Jewish Rushah: “trust but verify”.

By looking at the whole sefer, seems like Rambam objects to taking money for learning or teaching (Oral Torah) to keep learning pure and not use it as a source of income. Seems like he objects to direct payment for learning, not generic “tzedoka”, but Rema in YD 246:21 says – someone who is not working and supporting himself from tzedoka, so in his minds , tzedoka is same as paying. Rema further gives 2 famous kulos – first for the Rav of the city, so that people would not look down at him, and some even further – to accept willing donations for learning (this would not include Israeli taxes that are not volunteered). He then goes back to say that despite the accepted kulos, those who are able to work and learn, it is midat hasidut and present from Hashem to be able to earn an honest living and learn.

Maybe the reason Rambam does not mention tzedoka option but only payment for Torah, because he addresses it in metanot aniim, saying that everyone should try working, even as Talmid Chacham or a Kohen. He also says that it is asur to get non-Jewish welfare in public before using Jewish sources.

Overall, judging by multitudes of later sources that say this Rambam is difficult to hold by, there is a definite license to not fully follow this for those below midat hasidut. Some of Rambam’s warnings can be observed in practice in each generation to see how much one can contradict Rambam’s advice – is the Torah becoming bizayon in the eyes of multitudes? does this lead students becoming listim or doing other avonos?

this may depend on the particular community, not just esim – do simple folks see your community as takers or respect your learning? does your community force others to support or donors line up at the door?

> Who says that the Lithuanian approach is appropriate bichlal?

Litvishe approach went thru rigorous testing. The fact that Jewish learning flourished in a very small and poor country over centuries stands for something. I am with you that this was never intended as a mass movment and that, for example, Sephardi Torah should be seen as inferior.

Rabbi Lord Sacks Z’L (who prolonged his life by a year beyond what the doctors could do, by pre-recording a year of Divrei Torah). He is a baki of connecting sugyot to world philosophy and history.

big? bochur > You dont see anything wrong with learning Gemora from women?

Rav Yehuda laughs off some arrogant request for learning comparing him with Beruriah and her great ability to learn a lot from multiple teachers. He is not recommending to learn from Beruriah, but it is at least a testimony that multiple teachers would either admit Beruriah into their class, or teach her one-on-one (with presumably the Rebetzin sitting and knitting nearby).

If you want to apply this sugiya to modern times, you will be better off learning opinions of, say, R Moshe Feinstein and his relatives – a cousin and a son-in-law. You can also peruse CR.

3 morning Torah brochos correspond to 3 stages – early exciting one, long middle one, and the final one when you mastered it. So, definitely learning small amount of material b’yiun should happen first, so that the student knows the depth, and then you apply same, or maybe a little less, depth to get broad knowledge. Then, you may want to become a master in some limited area that fits your character, whether it is karbonos, business, kashrus – at least to the level of being able to contribute to CR without being flamed down.

RebE > for me it does not give a good taste when Orban is so close to them.

You are seconding your famous neighbor – Von Neumann. When he was a kid, he lived several months under Communist insurrection and then escaped and helped most of his family escape right before WW2 (and was in Germany for some time before). He stayed focused on both Nazi and Soviet threats as a result, even tried to join US Army to do more math work on munitions (he was rejected because he failed an exam on discipline and re-did it several weeks after he was not eligible by age anymore)

Avira > how dangerous things that are done by a large amount of people are not actually dangerous – this is based on shomer pesayim Hashem.

Maybe this is an explanation: why is Hashem protects peshayim and, presumably, does not protect people who know better? The fact that knowledgeable people are not protected means that the danger is present and presumably a smart person would have to avoid it. BUT, how would a simple person know a difference between a true and a false danger (false positives). He can trust his senses on obvious dangers when he sees a tiger or a car damaging a victim, but what about remote dangers where connection between cause and effect are not obvious. So, if you tell a simpleton to beware these, he’ll fall prey to all kind of superstitions, rumors, environmental propaganda. His life will be consumed in avoiding black cats and plastics. He will be advised to spend his time doing maasim tovim. If every climate protester would simply bring food to the neighboring elderly, the world be better, and cooler, of. What do you think?

n0, apologize, it is late tonight for me to go into the Rambam (even as the Rambam advises that best learning is at night, but who pasken like Rambam !?) – but my understanding was that Rambam thinks it is a disgrace for the Torah scholar to rely on charity, that is making other people to work instead of him. Obviously, this means that he himself thinks that his learning is more important than learning or any other mitzvos by other people, and he also causes other people to begrudge him and belittle Torah scholars.

I understand Brisker Rav brings these 2 Rambams, and concludes that 1st Rambam is for “general audience” and the 2nd for “yehidim” like Rashbi (and, presumably, Briskers).

Interestingly, Mishna Berurah takes an _opposite_ approach saying that we are too weak to work and learn, so if given just one choice, we should learn. chofetz Chaim himself was selling needles first and his seforim later on. I am not sure whether he has a position on using government funds, I don’t think Russian or Polish governments paid for Radin yeshiva.

Also, to paraphrase Mishna Berurah, as he conjectures that Rambam “at his times” would agree to learning for money, I am thinking that Mishna Berurah would agree “in our times” to work for a day a week and then learn for the rest while living modestly.

Even within the camp that supports using Zionist money for Torah learning, Rav Schach advised against accepting 100% funding from Begin government, warning that there will be a time when someone like Lieberman will “want his money back” and the system needs to be able to survive that. Why “frum” people do not listen to gedolim, I don’t know.

But the expression may be a hidden brocha, like this is a brocha of being like fish, or better to be like reed than like cedar (Yevamos). Mushrooms grow everywhere, often stay together, require water (Torah) and not a lot of government support.

reach out to Oorah and sign up for their summer camp ASAP, you’ll enjoy it and hopefully find friends there.

People need to make sure they can handle what they choose. I often see working people (doctors, lawyers, and other simple professions) who come both to hashkoma minyan and at 9pm to learn at kollel, and also there are people who live holy lives of learning and teaching and whose heads are worrying about where they can earn money to support their families. I don’t know percentages, but one should evaluate his own (and family) tolerances and be realistic in their lifestyle choices.

In theory, in modern world, one can spend 4 years to learn a good profession and then work 1 day a week (or 2 hours a day, if you prefer) and have a great learning life. I never met anyone following such an obviously correct way. R Lebowitz says that one YU student suggested a similar idea – be a lawyer full time until 40 and then retire, and Rav advised against that.

Syag > You must really love money or just be soo hung up on these thriving kollelites

I oresume this is for me. You are right – I am really concerned for the honor of Torah. I have no ill will to those who thrive in kollel. As they say, “my best friends went to kollel” and I learned a lot from my local Roshei kollel and some of the youngelites.

Obviously, it is OK for a person to go to learn and for his wife to support that. Starting from R Akiva …

I think Yabia is asking what is the social background here. If a girl is pressured into the arrangement in some way, or if she later changes her mind but is reluctant to speak out – does the husband have sensitivity to notice or the kollel a way to find out. Otherwise, this is similar to why we do not accept gamblers as eidim – because they “steal” as their opponents do not have full mind in accepting possible loss. Similarly, someone using pressure system to keep the wife “agreeing” may be guilty of theft from her.

Also, anyone claiming that wife can be satisfied by illicit funds, whether taken from in-laws, unreported income, or inappropriately obtained SNAP is really adding to the abuse of the lady – she does not have to be forced to be part of such aveiros (if they happen)

RebE > Rambam in Hilchas Talmud Torah says that the support he lives on is theft and he is ashaming the Torah.

This was brought before. CR consensus is that we don’t pasken like Rambam, and – in this case – all the great people are meikel by definition. If you are so super-frum and follow this Rambam, I am with you.

Yehudis, we don’t always know where to go from common sense. Need humility and bitachon. See Europeans who put their trust in wind and sun, and became hostages to Putin. Not only their 20th century did not teach them humility, they still do not admit their errors and continue their self-righteous behavior. So, if we change our lives in pursuit of some lofty goals, we need to make sure that these goals do not lead to corruption. If you make goals simple – be honest, help others a little, and then pursue your own interest, people will do that. If you lure them tofar-awy goals, you never know where tish will lead.

common > look at the signs of acher and R Meir that really one shouldn’t learn Torah from apikorsim

due to my sins, I could not see to which post this relates, but this is an interesting topics in itself. Rambam seemingly ignores Gemora’s permission for “gedolim” to learn from “acherim”. Some (Rav Shach?) explain that he felt that in his times, there were no gedolim any more (sic!), others – that he is writing general advice or talking about public teaching. This is interesting in light of Rambam obviously learning (maybe not torah but Chochma only) from “Acherim”, at least Muslim and Greek ones.

Clearly, R Meir’s situation is pretty exceptional. I do not see this mentioned, but he apparently started ldearning from Acher before Acher went OTD. So, there is an issue of attachment and all Torah that he already learned.

R Soloveichik has a talk in 1991 about Acher and how he is a complicated personality who misunderstood himself

repaired

It is right to be conservative in using new things.

Moses Mendelsohn was very enthusiastic about new things, others – opposed. Is it intrinsically bad to read Chumash in High German? So, many people read ArtScroll now (ok, it may be High Yinglish), but at the time, it directly assisted assimilation.

Founder of Chabad opposed Napoleon and supported the Czar with spies, in part because of fear of modernity; others, including Chaim Volozhin – disagreed, even if they saw that Czar is likely to survive. Maybe a closer case, but still.

Still, sometimes one needs to act boldly in view of external changes. See Rabban Gamliel, writing of the Mishna, etc. Claiming that “power of meikel” is mis-understood by serious opponents is as credible as to claim that Chasam Sofer was talking about grain when he re-prohibited “chadash”.

With understandable opposition to ideological Zionists, was there a specific point on insisting that they do not go to EY? Same people will lead irreligious life in other countries and be a cause of trouble for those communities.

There could be a purist view that we want to keep EY populated by tzadikim only, and the rest can go to South America, but I don’t think this was a majority view. So, otherwise, we have an issue of Torah v. modern ideologies, but no specific reason to object Zionist settling davka in EY.

I also presume that R Aharon would welcome advent of, at least, email and Zello. He wondered what was his punishment that he spent so much time travelling to fundraise for the Yeshiva and attributed it to possibly not being sensitive enough towards his students.

Avira, while I agree that sometimes “modern” movements create bad ideas that we should not follow, still we can’t deny that humanity is creating useful things and ideas sometimes. I understand that one might be careful with internet, music, cars, or COVID vaccine. But I wonder whether we need to insist on things like slavery. We already use many social norms that the world adopted – one-wife-only marriages, elections, corporations, welfare, summer vacations, two-day weekend …