Avi K

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  • in reply to: Charedi a Reaction to Haskalah #1218598
    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, there is also Chareidi Leumi (Chardal). As for reactions to the Haskala, Rav Chaim Soloveichik claimed that the Brisker method was the reaction as it gave a Torah alternative for Jews who were seeking intellectual satisfaction.

    in reply to: Looking for Affordable Housing in Warm(er) Jewish Community #1215973
    Avi K
    Participant

    I agree with Lilmod. You will also be doing a mitzva which according to Ramban is the pre-requisite for true Torah observance. Modi’in might be a good place as it has modern Orthodox and Chardal communities as well as many English speakers, is not expensive and is almost directly between Yerushalayim and Tel Aviv, which means that you can commute to work in either city. In addition, the weather there is very mild all year .

    in reply to: How many Gaonim are there? #1215705
    Avi K
    Participant

    Tiawd, the leitzanei hador say that a Gaon is someone who never heard of Rashi or Tosafot.

    in reply to: How many Gaonim are there? #1215703
    Avi K
    Participant

    There are those who say “hu rav im kulam”.

    in reply to: Renovating Kitchen with New Sink —Assur? #1215607
    Avi K
    Participant

    Hot according to Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach is 45 degrees Celsius (113 Fahrenheit). If food or a utensil that is less than this temperature falls into a sink that is less both are permitted. As for washing, I do not think that the average person can stick his hands into water that is this temperature. This is why it is called “yad soledet”. As for trivets, if the pot is extremely hot they are needed to protect the surface of the table or counter-top.

    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, silence sometimes means that the comment does not deserve an answer. If the teacher expected a laugh and was met by stone faces it was probably the greatest punishment she could have received. In an case, teachers can also be recorded and the comments uploaded to YouTube. Evens if teachers have tenure their classes can be boycotted.

    As for retribution for opposing the teacher’s beliefs, I got in trouble with my 11th grade English teacher for writing an essay about why we should not have to study literature. I would imagine that one would get in trouble with a frum teacher for opposing his particular hashkafa. Of course, in the hard sciences this is not an issue. In any case, in college there are generally lists of teachers of the various courses and there are ratings available on the Internet.

    in reply to: problems with not jewish college and this is why you should go to touro #1215009
    Avi K
    Participant

    Rescue37, those who will not consider her because she went to a general college should not be considered by her. Anyway, if her father (or she) can support them in kollel they will overlook it.

    in reply to: PSA – Do thorough research before making public halachic statements #1215748
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, who says that an Ashkenazi may not rely on a Sephardi posek and vice-versa if the question does not involve a machloket between the Rema and the Mechaber? Who is a legitimate posek? As for leniences, to paraphrase Rabbi Shay Schechter in the name of his father, if you can find one in a popular halacha book grab it and run. They tend to be as machmir as possible to avoid being attacked. Not to mention the fact that avereichim tend to be machmir anyway. I heard that one avereich asked Rav Eliashiv a question for his book. When Rav Eliashiv was lenient the avereich argued with him so RE told him “If you want to be machmir don’t do it”. The avereich wrote that RE said that it is worthy to be machmir.Oe should also check the footnotes and look up the sources. For example, after the first edition of Shemirat Shabbat K.Hilchata was attacked Rav Neuwirth put out a new edition with the chumrot in the main part and the kulot in the footnotes.

    In the case of a machloket where there is more or less an equal number on each side, if you cannot clarify it with your rav there is a simple principle. If it is a Torah mitzva be stringent, if it is a rabbinic mitzva you can be lenient. However, sometimes one can rely on a leniency regarding a Torah mitzva in special circumstances (great loss or need, b’diavad, etc.) There are no crutches. You have to learn thoroughly just to be able to get out of the level of the son who did not know how to ask a question.

    in reply to: PSA – Do thorough research before making public halachic statements #1215733
    Avi K
    Participant

    “V’zot haBeracha” (p. 108) brings three opinions regarding rice cakes:

    1. Adama – Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Scheinberg, Rav Sternbuch, Rav Mordechai Eliahu

    2. Mezonot – “one of the gedolei hador”

    3. Shehakol – Rav Fisher (because its formed changed).

    It would seem that someone who wants to be yotzi all of the above should first eat foods that are definitely mezonot, adama and shehakol.

    in reply to: Do you recognize the 'State of Israel'? #1214154
    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph,

    1. The head of Agudat Yisrael in EY, Rav Y.Y. Levin, signed the declaration of independence, obviously with the approval of the Aguda’s poskim. Aooroximately 150 rabbanim signed a kol koreh calling it the beginning ofthe Geula. If you want to remain in denial and be left behind in the plague of darkness that is your problem.

    2. There is bird that is called a ra’ah because it sits in Shmutz LaAretz and sees a neveila in EY (Chulin 63b). Both the Kotzker and Rav Sorotzkin say that this is why it is tamei.

    in reply to: Do you recognize the 'State of Israel'? #1214131
    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, you still do not understand the difference between a state and a regime?

    Avi K
    Participant

    Excellence, from the books of the chachamim Shimshon sinned with his eyes (Sotah 9b) and Yiftach was an am ha’aretz and gass ruach (Baba Batra 4a).

    Avi K
    Participant

    Womb with a View

    by Rabbi Steven Pruzansky

    [Yerushalayim]

    The broader point is not merely that succumbing to the threats of violence and terror only rewards and encourages the bully but that Israel finds itself (again!?) at a crossroads. The friendly Trump administration enters with no illusions that peace is possible under present circumstances, and well aware that Israel is both a friend and cherished ally. The real question then becomes: what does Israel want?

    People generally become so attached to the status quo that any attempt to change it, at all, evokes gasps of horror. (Change the one-China policy? Oy vey! Really?) Netanyahu has become adept at managing the status quo but strategic thinking is also in order. Life also cannot be put on hold pending a resolution of the Iran problem, and to assert that the embassy move should be postponed (forever) because Iran must be dealt with is a non sequitur. Nations can defend themselves, build homes, manage an economy and maintain a capital at the same time. And an American embassy in Yerushalayim would send a powerful message to the world, Arab and European, that the State of Israel exists, will continue to exist, and its just demands deserve recognition.

    [Yerushalayim]

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212538
    Avi K
    Participant

    Mammele,

    1. Karove lamalchut was used so that the ruling elite would respect the Jew. For example, court Jews were allowed to dress and cut their hair like gentiles despite the prohibition of “bechukoteihem” (the chachamim were allowed to set the parameters). See ????? ???? ??????? ?????? by Rav Yehuda Zoldan on the Bet-el yeshiva website (this is a wider version and discusses going into a church). As for those politicians who opted out of the Inaugurtion, it was for the explicit purpose of snubbing Trump as they are in denial about his election. This would have made the Kushners’ absence an even greater subject for the pundits.

    in reply to: Shutting Refugees out of America #1213230
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, see “Hillary Clinton is a threat to religious liberty” by Marc A. Thiessen in the Washington Post. You can google “Hillary Clinton – Religious beliefs have to be changed” to see the video.

    Litvos, so far as I know there are no more Jews in Iraq. There may be a handful in Syria. They belong in Israel.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212527
    Avi K
    Participant

    Mammale, on the assumption that you are female would you have been machmir on not going to the hospital in an ambulance if you went into labor on Shabbat?

    Tell me, when you wake up in the morning do you say “Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who is the frummest of them all?” Rabbi Pinchas ben Yair said about the donkey who would not eat non-tithed food even though it was exempt “????? ?????”.

    As for the church issue, while I have reservations I can also see the other side. As I previously posted, there are heterim for someone who is karove lamalchut as these are rabbinic prohibitions.

    in reply to: Shutting Refugees out of America #1213218
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, what would have been the thoughts of those who voted for Clinton when she carried out the “Civil Rights” Commission’s recommendation to set religious doctrine and tell religious groups whom they can appoint as clergy?

    Avi K
    Participant

    Rav Tzvi Yehuda found it difficult to celebrate the UN decision because they divided our land. Ramban says in his Sefer HaMitzvot that it is absolutely prohibited to allow any other people sovereignty over any part of Eretz Yisrael.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212525
    Avi K
    Participant

    Yehudayona, right up to the election it seemed certain that Hillary would win. This would have been a black day for Israeland all traditionally religious Americans.

    Mammele, they did hold fast to their beliefs. They asked a shaila and acted accordingly. IMHO their rav acted on solid halachic grounds as I previously posted.Bitachon does not, as the Chazon Ish says, mean standing in the middle of a highway and believing that you will not be hit by a car. It means that if you do your hishtadlut after something happens you havefaith that it was for the best.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212521
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, why not let someone else do it? In any case, Jared Kushner did not become the President’s son-in-law. He became a businessman’s son-in-law. Hashem then made the latter POTUS in an open miracle. Ivanka certainly did not volunteer to be Trump’s daughter.

    Avi K
    Participant

    A time for ?, he said this well before the Sixties. What did he say that he was chozer from? As Rav Aharon was a staunch opponent of the Oslo agreements. I very strongly doubt your contention.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212519
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, America is galut. If you cannot live in Israel you should be sad.

    Iacisrmma, a ger/giuret has the mitzva of kibbud av v’em for two reasons:

    1. It would be a chillul Hashem not to owner them.

    2. There is a mitzva to show gratitude for bringing one into the world.

    As for putting themselves into a situation where they would have to do a relatively light violation, as I previously posted, why not ask why someone should be a doctor, nurse, paramedic, police officer, etc.?

    Avi K
    Participant

    AY, the State did no such thing. Some people who worked for it did those things. In fact, Rav Soloveichik pointed out that the establishment of the State saved Jews from mass conversion. Missionaries were using the Holocaust as proof that Hashem had divorced us c”v.They even accosted him during his travels between Boston and NY. The great kiddush Hashem that was the establishment of the State shut them up and gave renewed pride to faltering Jews. It is impossible to deny the miracles that Hashem has given to us in all of the wars, the ingathering of exiles, the tremendous economic progress of the past decades. One is ungrateful to a person is considered worse than a dog. How much more so one who ungrateful to Hashem.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212501
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, there are also frum people who are not orthodox. Rather they are orthoprax but do not believe. Why do they keep mitzvot? To avoid problems with their friends and families, because the community is a safe space, etc. For that matter, what about someone who is glatt kosher but not glatt yosher? What about people who are careful about what goes into their mouths but not what comes out (the Chafetz Chaim complained about this).

    Avi K
    Participant

    Utah, how many times do I have to explain the difference between a government and a state?

    Avi K
    Participant

    Symbolism is also very important. We are sick of being told what to do in our capital as if it is not ours.

    Jews should support the State of Israel (and live in it) as it is the beginning o our redemption and the world’d redemption. As for violence, over eighty years agothe Arabs threatened violence if we did not give them the Kotel. Rav Kook and Rav Sonnenfeld stood firm against the British ym”sand weak-kneed Jews and there was no violence over it. Moshe Sharett warned that there would be violence we would be thrown out of the UN if we declared Yerushalayim to be our capital. BG said”OOM shmoom” (OOM is the Hebrew acronym for the UN) declared it our capital and nothing happened.

    Tell me, Joseph. Are you sorry in retrospect that Trump won? Look at the violence to which it led. In fact, why don’t you assimilate so as not to be subjected to violence?

    in reply to: Haftorah at modern orthodox shul (No LH) #1210818
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL, I think you mean libertarian as liberals in the US (in Israel “liberal” means “classical liberal”) are collectivists who pick and choose which rights to “give”. However, if you look at what libertarians are saying about government intervention you might rethink that.

    in reply to: Frum man attacked in hall #1210878
    Avi K
    Participant

    He should make aliya. With his fighting spirit we can use him in the IDF.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212492
    Avi K
    Participant

    I wonder how much coverage the Republicans could have added to the revised plan with the $221 million Obama gave to terrorists three hours (!) before leaving office (hopefully the new plan will include caps on malpractice awards so that medical personnel will not have to pay enormous insurance premiums and order unnecessary tests to cover themselves – two major causes of expensive health care in the US). Unfortunately the election came down to who is the bigger rasha. Someone whose negligence caused the deaths of American diplomats, treated the PM of Israel like a vassal and demanded that he not build in our capital, compromised national security through use of an unsecured server, made a career out of lying and other unethical behavior and stated explicitly that the Federal government should dictate religious doctrine (the so-called Civil Rights Commission also wants to dictate who can be clergy) vs a vulgar egomaniac. Not very much on the sidelines violent opponents of the new administration (who also sent anti-Semitic tweets to Rabbi Hier and have vowed to destroy Israel) led by someone who expressed her desire to blow up the White House.

    May Hashem grant Mrs. CTL a refuah sheleima and may He bring American Jewry home in a good way.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212449
    Avi K
    Participant

    I think that as reported the heter makes perfect sense, especially after seeing videos ofthe rampaging anti-Trump hooligans. Assuming that the driver is not Jewish it is at most an issur d’rabbanan of amira l’akum. This is allowed even in situations that are not life-threatening. If a non-Jew told the non-Jewish driver to drive them it is even easier. If there was a security deal in the car and there were more non-Jews than Jews it is even easier as we might be able to say that the melacha was done for their benefit.

    As for copy-cats, your complaint should be against those who advertised the heter. However, it could also be that the discussions in frum social media will make people more aware of the fact that the Halacha is not black and white but shades of gray. Knowing that one has a shaila is also very important. According to the version in the Midrash Rabba, when Rabbi Pinchas ben Yair’s talmidim pointed out that animal fodder is exempt from terumot and maaserot he said “hachamor machmir”.

    in reply to: Gentile means atheist or polytheist? #1210707
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, according to Rambam (Hilchot Melachim 8,11) a righteous Noahide is someone who keeps the sheva mitvot because Hashem said so. A wise Noahide keeps them because he thinks that it is proper.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212417
    Avi K
    Participant

    How about this, MW? If Reuven says LH about Shimon he gets all of Shimon’s aveirot. Causing someone to say LH is “lifnei iver”. So if Shimon causes Reuven to say LH about him Reuven gets that too.

    Yehudayona, who says that hey were not required as part of the First Family?

    DY, do you only do things if you need the money?

    Joseph, there are often differences between what poskim say in public, where the pesak is general, and in private where it is individual.

    in reply to: Jews in the Trump administration #1210605
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, in the army one only salutes an officer wen he is in uniform as the respect is for the uniform. L’havdil elef alfei hevdalim, when Ben-Gurion was PM Rav Tzvi Yehuda was restrained in his criticism. Once after BG resigned RTY blasted him. When his talmidim asked about he said “When he was PM I had to show respect for his office. Now he is just another apikoros”.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212386
    Avi K
    Participant

    DY, by voicing one’s opinion against a pesak someone received one risks being exposed a someone who does not know the diference between an alef and a swastika.

    Lilmod, it is prohibited as LH to go straight to a public outcry. First you have to speak to the individual privately. In this case the Committee to Find Blemishes in Others (to use Rav Aviner’s term) is second-guessing the Secret Service, who know their business (and anyone with even a modicum of intelligence who saw the videos of what went on in the streets knows that they were right) and the rav who paskened.

    Joseph, as it is a rabbinic prohibition there is flexibility. There are many heterim for someone who is karove lamalchut. A certain jailer who concealed his Jewishness so that he could save Jews was deemed by Eliahu to be worthy of Olam HaBa, according to the commentators without having to first go through Gehinnom (Taanit 22a). Presumably he had to go to the local bet a”z to keep up his disguise.

    in reply to: Who was Humpty? #1210882
    Avi K
    Participant

    Some say that he was King Richard III. Some say that he was a siege engine used during the English Civil War.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212375
    Avi K
    Participant

    Regarding Ivanka’s conversion, if when she went into the mikva she intended to keep everything she is Jewish. That is halacha pesuka. As Rabbi Lookstein followed the RCA’s GPS there should not be a question.

    Regarding going to the church, I heard that the prohibition is marit ayin. As the Kushners were conspicuously not holding prayer sheets and this was even noted by a reporter that might not be a problem. Moreover, Chazal relaxed the rules in this area for people who are karove lamalchut. Of course, the armchair poskim can say that one does not have to be karove lamalchut. They can even denigrate talmidei chachamim. However, they should remember a few things:

    One who denigrates Torah scholars is defined as a heretic, who has no portion in the World to Come (Sanhedrin 99b).

    Jerusalem was only destroyed because of denigration of Torah scholars (Rambam, Hilchos Talmud Torah, Chapter 6).

    Anyone who denigrates a talmid chacham has no cure for his malady (Shabbos 119b) – and there are many different interpretations of exactly what that “malady” is.

    in reply to: Driving on Shabbos #1212369
    Avi K
    Participant

    Assuming that the car was driven by a non-Jew it would only be a shevut. The room for a heter is then greater. If the Secret Service personnel are the majority then the question whether the car is being driven for them or the Kushners (even if the Kushners would walk the security detail would have to accompany them ). If for the security people then it is oovin d’chol or ziluta d’Shabbat (Rav Moshe says this about riding a bus where the Jew does not have to pay) which might even be easier to be waived.

    in reply to: A posek can tell you who to marry #1210291
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, maybe because “?? ???? ????” that is the proper answer in general.

    in reply to: Open Orthodoxy #1210534
    Avi K
    Participant
    in reply to: Open Orthodoxy #1210526
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lightbrite, the question is whether he keeps anyone in check. When I knew him thirty years ago I had the distinct impression that he was personally frummer than he let on. In fact, he once commented that many people who started with him would no longer daven in HIR – and did not seem displeased. Today he is 72 and sort-of retired (he said that he would like to retire the word “retire”) and has turned over his shul to a younger man.

    in reply to: Gentile means atheist or polytheist? #1210701
    Avi K
    Participant

    The word “gentile” ‘derives from Latin gentilis, which itself derives from the Latin gens … meaning clan or tribe” (Wikipedia). The word “goy” in Biblical Hebrew means “nation”. In fact, we are referred to as a goy kadosh. In Rabbinic Hebrew the word “goy” came to mean an idolater whereas a non-Jew who was not an idolater was called a ger toshav (without getting into the discussion regarding accepting them today). Ben Noach in the Gemara and Mishne Torah clearly is a general term for non-Jews. The Gemara (Megilla 13a) says that anyone who denies idolatry is called “Yehudi” (from meyahed – unite). In fact, the Gemara never refers to us a Yehudim (the use in Megillat Esther apparently refers to the fact that they were from Shevet Yehuda) but as Yisrael.

    However, today the academic term “Noahide” has come to mean a non-Jew who has taken the sheva mitzvot upon himself. There are several Noahide organizations, each with its own website (you can google “Noahide” to find them).

    in reply to: Open Orthodoxy #1210520
    Avi K
    Participant

    Time, I do not know that Rav Dovid Feinstein holds. His father (IM, OC 2:80) held that it is permissible if the gentile is not instructed to operate the elevator. See also “Shabbos elevators: Rav Meir Triebitz’s Teshuva” where he even allows asking a gentile to push the button (although he does not wish to advertise this heter). In any case, you have no right to disparage people who are lenient as they have ample halachic grounds to do so.

    in reply to: Is there a benefit to remaining single ? #1209884
    Avi K
    Participant

    Kitov,

    1. I know someone who did not get married until age 57.

    2. Women are exempt from peria v’rivia. This is halacha pesuka.

    Lilmod, it depends. If a man knows that he cannot have children and this yetzer hara is not bothering him he is not required to get married.

    in reply to: Open Orthodoxy #1210517
    Avi K
    Participant

    Time , that is what I have received from my rabbanim. In fact, Rav Shlomo Zalman has very strong rebuttals of the Chazon Ish’s opinion as Well as Rav Schmelkes’ opinion that it ismolid zerem. Among other rebuttals he says that closing a circuit is like closing a door. Moreover, it is not permanent so it cannot be a Torah prohibition. Regarding the issue at hand (in case you have forgotten, riding in an elevator that was activated by a gentile) see Rabbi Chaim Jachter’s on-line series of articles “The Use of Elevators on Shabbat” and “Non-Shabbos elevator on Shabbat” by Rabbi David Sperling (also on-line).

    in reply to: Ivris speaking cheder #1209424
    Avi K
    Participant

    Yossi, I am an idea man not an educator.

    Geordie, that is because it is written in Hebrew.

    in reply to: A posek can tell you who to marry #1210268
    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, there is also a difference between telling someone not to go out with a particular person because of a halachic (e.g. cohen and gerusha) or personal (e.g. a health issue) reason. However, in the latter case the person must tell you the reason and you are not allowed to fully believe it but only to have a suspicion and seek to clarify it if you can. Unfortunately, it does happen that people exaggerate or even outright lie either to exact revenge or because of personal prejudices.

    in reply to: A posek can tell you who to marry #1210266
    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph,

    The SA says that he is only talking about a case where someone does not want to marry at all. However, if he says that he is waiting for a good shidduch the bet din does not interfere. He does not say anything about forcing someone to marry a particular girl. In fact, Yeshayahu did not force Chizkiahu to marry his daughter. He simply told him that if he did not agree to marry someone he would die. Chizkiahu then suggested the specific shidduch. In any case, the Rema says that today we do not interfere at all. Your kal v’chomer is not a kal v’chomer. Someone who does not want to marry at all at any time is violating a Torah mitzva. Someone who is waiting for the proper person or circumstances (in Lithuania it was common for men to postpone marriage until relatively late in life in order to learn full-time without financial pressures) merely wants to wait to do it properly.

    As for marrying off the daughter without her permission and your “age old Jewish tradition”, Chazal say not to do either until she decides that she wants the guy. So far as I know, the only times it was actually practiced were during the Crusades, when no one knew if it would be possible later, and in Yemen, where girls whose fathers died were forcibly converted to Islam unless they were married.

    Lilmod, what is the difference between telling him not to marry a certain girl and to marry a certain girl? Why should he ask a bet din? RJS obviously did not think that he was required to do so. This is a matter of the spiritual connection between the people themselves. Their lives, thieeir decision.

    in reply to: Ivris speaking cheder #1209418
    Avi K
    Participant

    Yossi, in that case the later books of the Tanach as well as the Mishna and Gemaar are in lashon hakodesh mekulkelet (“lashon’ is feminine). Forexmple, the books of Daniel and Esther refer to the servant who brings food as a meltzar, which is Persian. “Sanhedrin” is Greek as is “hediot” (it comes form the same word as “idiot’). In any case, lashon hakodesh mekulkelet is still a form of lashon hakodesh. Yiddish is a corrupted form of German along with corruptions of Hebrew (e.g. “goniff” from “ganav”) and Slavic languages (e.g. “bubbi” from “babushka”). Thus many referred to it as “Jargon”.

    in reply to: A posek can tell you who to marry #1210244
    Avi K
    Participant

    Rav Moshe Soloveichik objected to his son’s choice. Rav Joseph Soloveichik wrote a very respectful letter whose bottom line was that he did not have to listen. RMS said that he was right. As for ruach hakodesh, that does not exist in our times except maybe one in a generation. Even then he does not pasken according to it. How many Jews perished because they were told not to leave Europe when they had the chance? There was a guy in Givat Shaul who was telling people who had been happily married for decades that according to ruach hakodesh they had to get divorced. Rav Mordechai Eliahu ran him out of town. There was another one in Maalot Dafna who claimed to check mezzuzot according to ruach hakodesh. Rav Yaakov Hillel tested him and found that he did not even know what the Shulchan Aruch says. Some have done much worse things which I doubt that the Moderator will allow to be mentioned. IMHO, it is absolutely prohibited to go to people like that.

    in reply to: Izhbitza chassidus and open Orthodox #1209970
    Avi K
    Participant

    Neville, I can take it and I can dish it out too. Be warned!

    Lightbrite, TY for the commentary. Once when asked what he meant by something he wrote Agnon told his questioner to ask a certain literary critic so I am in good company. However, as an man ofd truth I must admit that I was referring to literally waving their fingers during a discussion. This is an expression in yeshiva circles for pilpul with nothing behind it. BTW, according to the Urban Dictionary “When you interface with any kind of computer that requires manual input (whether by keyboard, or a touchscreen) there is the chance for making a mistake. Such mistakes are playfully called ‘at Finger Disease’.”

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