Forum Replies Created
What? Is this a joke? Lox and cream cheese with onion on a bagel is now subject to a chumra?February 15, 2012 3:21 am at 3:21 am in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851446
Sorry hershi but the OP’s story needs more detail before it can be at all believed.February 14, 2012 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851444
@Hershi, you’re correct to a point. Without someone supplying falsifiable information about my marriage, there is no reason to believe that I am, beyond the assumptions that might be made about people. But, the need for falsifiable information grows in proportion to the improbabilities contained in a story. For example, it might be reasonable, all things being equal to believe a story that says “Cantoresq got married to his wife on May 13, 1998 and they have three children.” The reason that can be believed here on this blog is because there is enough information in the statement that can be examined to establish its truth, and such a story does not need more than a cursory exam as there is nothing remarkable about it. But when one presents a story with fantastic allegations, like a story in another thread about a girl who lay in a coma for 73 years, or the story here, that requires more information to render it believable. It the unbelievability of the story that necessitates greater falsifiability.February 14, 2012 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851439
@hershi, What is your point?February 13, 2012 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm in reply to: #851472
Heaven and Hell are the same place, a shiur. For some it’s Heaven. For others it’s Hell. Of course, if I’m ultimately deemed a paragon of virtue, the place is a chazzanut concert.February 13, 2012 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851431
Sorry dogo, no dice. To be believed, a story needs verifiable (i.e. falsifiable) details. The name of the yungerman in question, the name of the kollel where he learned etc. I don’t know you at all, and have no reason to believe you. I don’t have any reason to disbelieve you either. Thus the need for falsifiability in the narrative; to resolve the doubt. That it isn’t forthcoming, renders the story unfalsifiable and therefore not believable. Additionally, I’m not all that impressed that R. Chaim didn’t know what schnitzel is. How is one supposed to be a posek, if he does not know the basics of how people live?
LoyalJew, if it’s rabbinic leadership that created the system, let them fix it. It still isn’t my problem. If the critical mass or a significant enough minority to make a difference, has abandoned the system, that’s a failure of the rabbinic leadership to either maintain control over their flock, or a failure of the system. In either event, why maintain the mirage?February 13, 2012 4:03 am at 4:03 am in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851421
Derech Hamelech, the stories reported here are recent enough that sufficient information to verfy or debunk them ought to be available. And believe it or not, history can be verified as well.February 12, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm in reply to: The Koach of our Gedolim: A Story with Rav Chaim shlit"a #851410
Are either of these stories falsifiable? If they are not, they are merely myth.
Logician, I’m all in favor and fully support personal self sacrifice in the name of an ideal. It’s one of the basic components of a religious life. But your suggested comparison of those people unable to easily meet eligible spouses in the shidduch system with an agunah is misplaced to say the very least. The Talmud does not refer to a shidduch system. Rather it talks about the 15th of Av and Yom Kippur afternoon. The meeting rituals there are very different than the current shidduch system. Given the lack of any primary textual support for the current system, I label it arbitrary. But it is the Torah, the Talmud and theit application that engenders the pathetic agunah situation. The two are hardly comparable on any plain.
I’m just wondering if people on this chat are aware that one of the most popular works in the yeshivish world about the structure of the Talmud, is in fact an annotated translation of the introduction of a book written by Meiltziner, the first dean of the Reform Hebrew Union College. How’s that for a hashkafa conundrum?
Logician, if the participants in the system are having problems, how can they believe it is the correct system for them? People have every right to sacrifice their personal fulfillment upon the altar of arbitrary communal standards which dictate proper socialization. i.e. Frum people can forgo possibly meeting their spouse and having a family in the interest of towing the party line. That is their choice to make and I hope they ultimately find the transaction profitable. But their ennui or angst over that choice isn’t my problem.
I don’t see a shidduch problem or crisis. Part of being an adult means making your own choices. Adults are the ones who marry, not children If the “shidduch system” isn’t working for an individual, that individual should choose an alternate system. The s/he chooses not to, for any number of reasons, is his/her prerogative, but not my problem.February 9, 2012 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm in reply to: Unorthodox, thats definitely not the worst of it all. #850202
GAW, this blog besmirches other Jews all the time. But more to the point. It seems this book hits a raw nerve with many people. If it were completely false, full of lies, I doubt it would deemed to offensive. Might it be the kernels of truth feared to be in its pages that inspires such ire?
What does it mean, or what does it connote?
I had an uncle who was very particular about this matter. He also gave us all “roiter bindlech,” which I keep with me at all times. He also gave me a Raziel Hamalach, which I keep in my teffilin bag. I don’t much go for these segulot, but he did, and I loved him very much. I keep these momentos as a matter of respect for him and to preserve his memory.
Actually Daas Yochid, my father z”l told me that the pieces of matzah he handed out were substantially the same size as those handed out by his father. The point is that there was no emphasis on the amount of matzah to be eaten at the Seder. One ate an amount sufficient to show he was eating matzah at the Seder. The same goes for kiddush Shabbos morning on bronf’n. We drink a one ounce shot and not a full revi’is. One drink an appropriate serving of the beverage at hand. Same happens at Havdalah, which we also make on schnaps. That’s how it was done and that’s how I continue to do it.
BTW, my emphasis on preserving such folkways leads to one ironic “right wing” conclusion. Because I am in many ways culturally Orthodox, I’m opposed to any expansion of women’s roles in ritual. My opposition does not stem from any Halachik argument (for instance the Mishne Berurah says b’feirush that a woman can make motzi on bread for a man, but I’d never go for it). Rather it’s due to my desire to do things the way they were done in yesteryear. I’d want my ihr zeide to be comfortable in my home and he would not accept any Halachik argument that it’s mutar for my wife to make motzi. (MO ignores such folkway arguments at its peril, in my opinion.) I can adopt your code based insistence on shiurim. But then I’d also have no choice but to endorse a lot of feminism.
Thank you thecuriousone. Sam2, in a prior post in this thread, I provided what I believe is a decently workable definition of Modern Orthodoxy. But be forewarned, since MO, like all of Orthodoxy is more a social construct than a “movement,” definitions can prove unwieldy.
Greatest, the fact is the Rav zt”l was right. Chareidiut as a doctrine is a failure. It cannot and has never thrived in this country without engaging in serious morally/ethically compromised actions. Vehameivin yavin (besides I doubt the moderators would allow me to get into specifics). Moreover, on the intellectual side of things, Chareidi isolationism, obscurantism and anti rationalism has compelled it to adopt a series of doctrines that render it entirely irrelevant and anachronistic to the critical mass of world Jewry. People will not leave their rationalism at the door as the price of entre` into Chareidi portals. And those who do so, often don’t stay, or fail to make any significant contribution to Orthodoxy (30 some odd years into the kiruv enterprise, how many roshei yeshiva are b’alei teshuva, the sine qua non of success in the chareidi world?) because they cannot reconcile their rationalist past with Chareidi anti-rationalism. Chareidiut succeeds only by dint of its birthrate and nothing else. But that factor requires ever increasing financial resources and those two are inversly proportional. The longer Chareidiut remains isolationist and obscurantist, the fewer possibilities for economic growth are available. As the money dries up, the system will either implode with catastrophic consequences or redefine itself of necessity. And when it does redefine itself, will it then claim to the be standard bearer of Torah Judaism immemorial?
While it conjures up some offensive images of Edgardo Mortara, do we really care; should we really care? The Mormon Church is extremely pro Israel. Think Orin Hatch. That’s what matters.
Greatest, please read the entire essay. You will quickly see that the Rav was addressing how to create Torah Jewry in an America which is vastly different from pre WWII Europe. His view of things is as true today as it was when he gave that address to the Mizrachi in the 1960’s. In it the Rav zt”l rejected the rejectionish of contemporary Chareidim and explains why he rejects it, both on Torah and practical grounds. The quote upon which you rely is taken totally out of context. Whn sying those words, the Rav zt”l was speaking of a theoretical utopia, one which he quickly dismissed as untenable and unworkable (consider the current implosion of Chareidi society, mainly the lack of funds for kollelim, the backbone of the society, and you’ll understand how precient he was). A littlte intellectual honesty goes a long way.
Greatest, I’ll have to read the entire piece, and get back to you. But for now, R. S.R. Hirsch and R. Esriel Hildesheimer’s embrace of secular culture come to mind.
DY, neither site checked out online.
“I’ve mentioned this many times before. Rav JBS himself wrote that the more one can distance himself from secular culture the better he is for it.”
HaKatan, please provide the source for that assertion.
The fact is that Chareidiut is as much a departure from pre-emancipation traditional Judaism as is MO, reform Judaism or any other movement. Jacob Katz and others have well established the truth of that, and it is undeniable. Emancipation was THE game changer, and Judaism has yet to recover from it. Reform responded by jettisoning Halacha. Chareidiut responded by hallowing the Shulchan Aruch and by elevating Dinei Derabbanan and minhag tot he status of Torah law. MO, while essentially accepting the authority of the Shulchan Aruch as normative accomodates certain deviations from it in light of an equally important manifesto to participate in the surrounding culture. Those deviations might be grounded in minorty Halachik opinions not accepted by the Shulchan Aruch, or they might be based upon contemporary sevarah. But MO does, in theory at least, seek a Halachik basis for its actions. MO, also in many instances rejects the notion that minhag always has the status of din. It also rejects/resists the jettisoning of those minhagim which contradict the Shulchan Aruch, if such practices are hoary with age. Thus at my MO seder, I divide one piece of shmurah matzah among the entire table, even though the size of each piece is far smaller than the shiur of the Chazon Ish, or even that of Chatham Sofer. I do it because my father did it that way, as did his father etc. That age old family practice, a mesorah if you will, trumps any code based criticism anyone might levy. Conservative Judaism seeks to place Halachik observance within a historic continuum in which Halachik practice remains ever fluid and always subject to modification.
But all this is merely academic. Who is anyone to criticize the Halachik praxis of anyone else, when none of the current schools of though truly reflects the pre-emancipation system?
Ad masai atem poschim al shtei hase’iphim?
For as long as people need to eat to survive.
Actually WIY, the faculty there has remained pretty constant over the past 25 years. R. Avrohom Friedman, who was the Mashgiach Ruchani is now the Rosh Yeshiva. R. Chaim Twerski, who said a shiur in the high school, now teaches Yoreh Deah. R. Ben Zion Rand still says his shiur in the high school, as does R. Yosef Polstein. R. Aaron Cardash, a recent addition, was my roommate senior year. R. Mordy Ginsparg, was a year ahead of me. R. Schuman, two years ahead of me. R. Jeremy Newman, the Mashgiach was also a year ahead of me.
Skokie’s hashkafa, at least 25 or so years ago was best summed up in the following incident: One year Yom Ha’atzmaut fell on BeHaB. So after Chazarat Hashatz, we said Hallel (IIRC with a bracha), then we said Slichot BeHaB and the tachanun that followed. We then leined and the Maftir was said. Everyone, all the roshei yeshiva and all the students participated.
I graduated the high scool around 25 years ago.
Nisht Ahe Nisht Aher
Even though I think that jeans doesn’t really affect the kind of person someone is, it still does somewhat reflect who you are. If a Rav did ever wear jeans in his life, then he shouldn’t be a Rav!
R. Nosson Tzvi Finkel not only wore jeans, he wore shorts on the basketball court, when he played for the coed high school he attended.December 14, 2011 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm in reply to: Serving Alcohol To Bochurim And Sem Girls And Kids #835350
I have no problem letting my 11 year old son have a little of my beer or scotch when I’m with him. He also likes to take a few mililiters of liquor at kiddush; he thinks the cough syrup tasting dreck is cool. But I won’t ever give anything to his friends, unless a parent is there as well. In short I’ll take responsibility for my kid imbibing a little under controlled circumstances, but not for others.
There is nothing in the world more painful for a man than a kidney stone, well maybe gout is as bad. I’ve had three stones over the years, and the only thing that works is morphine. Sometimes diet can control the creation of stones. Speak with your doctor.
A very good friend of mine is the highest ranked frum office in the NYPD; an Inspector, which is just below the various levels of Chief.
A flawed concept with no basis in classical Jewish thought.
The problem is that since R. Miller died, evolution has moved one. Many of the problmes with evolutionary theory he cited have been resolved.
I don’t know if requiring the bus drivers to work on Thanksgiving is a chilul Hashem. It probably isn’t. But doing what’s necessary to give them the day off, would be a big kiddush Hashem.
Alternate titles would be: “How to say a shiur wearing khakis” and “I close my collar when wearing a tie.”
One, indeed it is prudent not to concern oneself with the hygiene of others. But we all share this planet. One man’s poor personal habits is another man’s sensory assault.
Mod-72 you’re correct. I don’t want to conform to the mores of parts of my neighborhood because I’m quite comfortable with who I am, as I am. I suppose, to a certain extent, my obstinacy reflects a certain level of contempt for my surroundings.I don’t think that my neighbors care all that much though. We’re kind of an eclectic bunch in my little derfel. But thats the crucial difference, those yeshiva leit who walk around poorly groomed or improperly clad, intend no statement. Thet mistakenly believe they are showing respect for their surroundings and acting properly. It’s that error that creats the dissonance, and needs to be corrected.
The apparel oft bespeaks the man
The issue is grooming. Soliek makes a valid point. But at it’s essence I’m referring to grooming; looking neat, looking like one spent a few minutes every morning and insuring basics like, one either shaved or trimmed and/or combed one’s beard. Insuring that one’s ears are clean. Combing one’s hair. Grooming means pressing pants and wearing shirts that are not wrinkled, or socks without holes, polishing one’s shoes and having them heeled when necessary. It means showering and wearing deoderant. The whole point of the alter of Slabodka’s dress code, one patterned on middle class business dress of his day, was to imbue his students with a sense of dignity and pride. Similarly the Dejer Rav insisted that boys in his yeshiva have their pants pressed at all times. There is a value, a spiritual value in properly presenting oneself and in proper personal hygiene and grooming. It matters not what the actual clothing is. What matters is being well groomed.
Nothing like a little character assasination and kill the messenger. But allow me to clarify a few things. I don’t recall saying I take novels to schul. I do readily admit taking books with me to schul to read as I find the services boring, especially the poor aesthetics. The only novel I recall bringing was by Chaim Grade, which is a special class of fiction. And BTW, the rabbis of the schul in which I daven, are well aware of my reading habits. My criticism of yeshiva leit wearing their collars open is based on it looking unkempt. There are those who may feel my casual Shabbat afternoon outfits are too casual for the day. But I am never unkempt.
Yungerman1 I’m just a guy who tries to earn an honest buck and thinks doing so is more honorable than living off the communal dole. As to my pedigree, there is ample information about me in this site’s archives. Do a search and learn.
When earning an honest buck seems more honorable than sponging off the community.
This shaila needs the guidance of our Gedolim. What is the Da’as Torah on chasunah dancing?
It was in Rockland County, New York
To be brief is nice. I prefer to be boxer however.October 18, 2011 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm in reply to: What to do to the chazzan who takes too long for hallel #818611
Nice kiPurim Torah.