☕ DaasYochid ☕

Not missing anything.

This is wrong. Given enough variations of chaseiros and yeseiros, that “codes” will be found in some of them is a mathematical certainty. Certainly not a “impossibility”.

True, but we are not given many variations, just the one we have. So your point is wrong.

You really dont find that strange at all? That chazal’s Torah didnt have codes but only ours does?

If you find that strange (I don’t have an opinion) so posit that it’s there as well. Mah nafshach.

I am looking at codes in moby dick as we speak. That the proponets deny what I see with my eyes right now, says a lot about this quackery

Whose codes, whose methodology, which proponents? I’m maskim that Drosnin is a quack.

It is not impossible. It is a certainty. It is one thing if we decide beforehand what we are looking for say “Barack Obama” but to go on a fishing hunt through 304,805 letters in the Torah after weve decided what we are looking for. B Obama, Barack Obama, B H Obama, Barack hussein Obama, President Obama, President B obama, (dont forget we dont need vowels in hebrew). The probablity of finding something that we can attach meaning to aproaches 1! a certainty!

For the third (fourth? fifth?) time, I don’t have an opinion on the actual math. There are apparently experts on either side.

The math works in moby Dick, the “new testament” war and peace and Drozin’s own book.

That claim is contested. Again, my information is from Aish, abmnd predates the book you refer to. Does some wacko writing a book discredit legitimate research? If so, maybe I’ll write a wacko book with bad math refuting the codes, and that’ll concmvince you to believe in them.

So let me see if I understand you correctly. The text of our Torah is slightly different than Chazal’s. Did their Torah contain codes or only ours? If both what about Rashis? what about the Leningrad codex?

And if only our version contains them, does that mean we have a more authoritative version than chazal?

I answered that. I’m not sure which part you didn’t understand. As I said, either ours is “correct”, or Hashem out the codes into ours. Whether He put it into any others is immaterial.

Sam, the research done by the people Aish uses predates that book by a lot. Look it up.

Here is part of Aish’s article on it:

To avoid any accusation of tampering, the task of deciding on spellings and constructing the list was delegated to an outside expert, Professor Shlomo Zalman Havlin, head of the Department of Information Studies and Bibliography at Bar Ilan University.

In 1994, the results of their research was published in the prestigious peer-reviewed journal, Statistical Science. Since then, the Codes phenomenon has been reported on all the major television networks, as well as in Time magazine and the Wall Street Journal.

Harold Gans, a cryptologic mathematician with nearly three decades of experience cracking codes for the United States Dept. of Defense, was initially highly skeptical of their results, and conducted an independent experiment to verify the integrity of the data. He was not only able to validate their work, but using their method was able to extend it by pairing the cities of birth and death with the names of the rabbis on their list. Statistical analysis shows that the presence of these names, dates, and cities cannot be reasonably attributed to mere coincidence, the probability of such an occurrence being vanishingly small.

Dr. Robert Haralick, Boeing Professor of Electrical Engineering and an expert in Pattern Recognition at the University of Washington, has also confirmed the statistical significance of the original Great Rabbis experiment by redoing the experiment using an entirely different methodology.

Despite the controversy, there is high-level rabbinic endorsement for codes research. In 1997 a public statement was issued in Jerusalem by the renowned Rabbi Shlomo Fisher endorsing the validity of codes research, vouching for the integrity of the researchers, and encouraging its presentation to lay audiences.

Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach met with the Codes researchers on several occasions, and not only gave his approval to Codes research but also encouraged its use in Jewish outreach efforts.

I’m sure the Codes debate will rage for many years, probably until the Messiah comes. In the meantime, for further research you can read the works of Doron Witztum, the leading codes researcher, whose first book in Hebrew is entitled Meimad HaNosaf (The Extra Dimension).

Curiosity, last I checked, Hashem still runs the world.

Yet, the proponents claim it’s been tried on such works and it doesn’t work on them.

I am not a mathematician, and I don’t know who to believe.

Popa, that must have been you who went out with my sister.

(The banana scented air freshener in the car was a nice touch.)

Did those experts confirm it or just not refute it?

My emunah doesn’t come from Torah codes, and I think it’s dangerous to hang your emunah on something which may one day (and possibly already has already been) refuted.

In the other hand, I wouldn’t scoff at it either. We do have some cases where Rishonim have discovered patterns, and we do know that Gematria is a genuine chochmah. There’s no question that Hashem did put information in the Torah in hidden ways, so there’s no reason to think that any discovery made isn’t genuine, even if it doesn’t prove anything. I also think it’s equally, if not more, dangerous for someone’s emunah to scoff at it.

Whether it makes more sense to take on yoshon or cholov Yisroel is an interesting question. Putting aside practical considerations (which you can’t actually do in real life), it would seem that yoshon would come first. After all, it’s a shailah of a d’Oraisa, whereas cholov Yisroel is a shailah of a d’rabbobon. Also, the sevaros to be mattir cholov stam seem stronger than the heterim for chodosh.

However, there are a couple of reasons that some do the opposite. Obviously, there are cultural reasons.

There is also some kind of chassidishe mesorah not to be makpid on yoshon (which I don’t understand) as well as extreme importance placed on cholov Yisroel from a kabbalah perspective.

There’s also an interesting halachic perspective, which I heard from an adam gadol. Because yoshon was so hard to obtain in Europe, it was an almost universal practice to not be makpid on yoshon, and the wide usage of the heter in practice makes it more halachah l’maaseh. The heter for cholov stam, however, has a shorter history and less universal acceptance.

If you think I haven’t concerned myself with the dialogue, you clearly have not read or understood all of my posts on the matter, in effect, taking my words very much out of context.

I think it’s paradoxical for you to think it’s a maalah to be machmir on CY even if your rav thinks it’s OK, but not a maalah to be machmir on the more severe issur of geneivah (even if your rav is mattir).

Veltz, if you’re going to gehinnom for eating ice cream anyway, might as well have chocolate.

Sam, if the sevara would be as you said, it wouldn’t make a difference.

That’s not a chilluk between yoursef and others.

Mammele, chalk it yo to Sam being a victim of Joseph’s successful trolling.

I’m not sure why you thought that. I was answering how a handshake could be derech chibah and YV”Y when other forms of contact are not.

No, how can you say you’re worse than the other person.

Benignuman, I am not denying that there is another shittah, just explaining the shittah which assers.

Wolf, you’re right. I’m sorry.

I’ll guess that the name Raylah is short for Yisraelah, a name given to a girl who is being named for a man named Yisrael.

There are two fine, and otherwise equal, Yidden. One spent his entire life being careful to only purchase the music he listened to. When he traveled he either took along the CDs he purchased or avoided music. At home, too he spent the extra dollars, despite his meager income, on always buying music products for his family. Despite the extra costs, hassles, and times he couldn’t have music when travelling, he was always happy to serve Hashem.

The second fine Yid lived a righteous life almost the same way as the first. The only notable difference was that he happily copied music from his friends and from illegal download sites and file sharing. He had his Yaajov Shwekey and MBD at home, work and away. If Benny Friedman & Miami Boys’ Choir was available for download, Benny Friedman & Miami Boys’ Choir was the music he put on the family stereo system.

Will the first Yid get any more Olam Haba than the second for having been careful to only purchase his music and not sponge off of someone else’s hard work, time and money?

You didn’t look it up, did you?

Actually, Yehareig V’al Yaavor would dictate that if you know you couldn’t control yourself after the initial neheneh b’kiruv basar, you would not be allowed to save her and must let her drown.

That is against a clear psak in Igros Moshe (which I don’t have time right now to search for and cite). I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of this issue.

That is a completely different story (as far as learning any halachos from it) than the story the OP said.

I won’t differentiate between a hug and a kiss, but there is a huge difference between saying someone is holy, which R’ Moshe did, and saying it’s okay to hug her, which R’ Moshe did not.

Saving a drowning woman is not derech chibah.

You were responding to a hypothetical observation. How could you possibly say it wasn’t objective?