Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Sam, how so?
JT, that level of “supervision” is not enough to create the mirsus necessary for an anan sahadi. The OU already was giving a hechsher on dairy products during R’ Moshe’s lifetime, and he became, if anything, more machmir later on.
Gavra, the chilluk is that r’tzichah is talui in the metzius: was he someone who would have died within twelve months, or not? The onesh misah is only on one who kills the latter.
Treifah by an animal is a din that a treifah is assur. The definition of treifah, as per halachah l’Moshe miSinai, is a nekev which would kill an animal within twelve months [at the time Chazal codified/established the parameters for the din].
Sam, really?
Everyone agrees that it’s wrong. I’m not really sure what there is to discuss about this.
Popa, I didn’t say you showed your amaratzus by not looking up the Shach, just by not looking up the Mishna Berurah.
There are two issues here. The OP wanted to know if you can eat pareve cooked on a dirty fleishig grill during the nine days. I think the source for that is ???”? in ??”?, and ?”? in ??”? doesn’t seem to me to be relevant, as the two gezeiros are for different reasons. It’s possible that ???? ????? ???????, but that’s conjecture until I see a source.
The thread title makes it seem as if it has to do with “being fleishig”, IOW, ????? ?? ????, which leads to the discussion on the ?”?. I think it’s pretty clear that he’s talking about where some cleaning was done, I also don’t think it would necessarily be nogeia in a case where there will be ???? on the food. There are also a few ??????? who argue on the ?”?.
See ‘?? ????? ?”? ?, especially second wide line.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15008&st=&pgnum=323
I believe the OP was looking for a noun.
The term in Hebrew is ?????? ????? ????. I can’t think of a good single word offhand.
Bruce’s Garage in Liberty, Maven Motors in Fallsburg.
Yes, but you also said that PBA had a good point. That’s conjecture unless we find a source to compare the two issues, one from YD and one from OC.
I actually think (as you said) it’s mashma in MB and Shaar Hatzion that any b’ein would be a problem in the nine days, even if it wouldn’t necessitate waiting six hours (although it might, depending on how you learn the Shach).
Ubiquitin, meiheicha teisi the dinim of hamtanah have shaychus to the nine days? I’d like to see a source before making such an assumption.
Joseph, the flowers were stunning. How’d you know my favorite color is fuchsia?
T613, how does an exception prove a rule? Wouldn’t a rule be stronger if there were no exceptions?
My inside joke detector just went off, but I’m having a hard time dealing with the implications.
Also, you amaratzim should look up the (???? ????? (???”? ?”? (like this amaaretz just did) and tell me if you make the same possible ???? I do, that there could be a case where you’re not allowed to eat something in the nine days even if it wouldn’t make you fleishigs.
Goofus, I don’t think a negative is a minhag (certainly not in this case).
ZD, firstly, the jacket is more important than the hat; secondly, I understand that some don’t own a hat, and I wouldn’t expect someone to buy a hat for an occasional visit (although I know someone who did). I’m talking about regulars who do own a hat (and I’m not talking about anyone in particular, just the idea). Even if someone was a regular or I knew that they had a hat but chose not to wear it, I wouldn’t say anything either, except hello.
You’re all amaratzim, including popa and Sam. Of course there’s no issur “to be fleishigs” during the nine days. Otherwise how did all you amaratzim eat meat before shkiah on Thursday, and how do all you amaratzim eat a fleishige shalashudis?
And popa’s the biggest, because he neglected to point out that the Shach says it’s okay if it wasn’t washed thoroughly, mashma that if it wasn’t washed at all, it’s a problem.
(I’m actually the biggest of them all, but I hide it better by looking things up before I post.)
Wolf, I agree with you, but if someone is asking the question, I don’t know if he’ll get that. I hope you’re right.
Your lack of caring for or being scared of schar v’onesh doesn’t change anything other than your perspective.
Should I jump into a fire if I’m not scared of it?
Yes, I know, all t’hi k’eved ham’shames es harav al m’nas l’kabel p’ras. But if you’re not there (and who is?), do it al m’nas.
We learn Torah for several reasons, including that we will be rewarded.
Source?
If they did that, I think CY would be more widely available.
Much appreciated.
Wolf, false dilemma. You can refrain from talking *and* wear a hat and jacket.
I don’t know where you daven, but where I daven (quite a yeshivishe place), the person sans hat and jacket is welcome (although IMO he’s wrong for not conforming to minhag hamakom), but the talker is made to feel quite unwelcome.
Joseph, yes. It beautifies the Shabbos table, and such a gesture would be appreciated.
Gavra, I don’t know what form of FDA supervision R’ Moshe was referring to. It seems that the Nirbater Rov feels that that supervision is no longer in effect. Which leads to my response to JT: I am understanding that the Nirbater Rov is addressing the possibility that the availability and fear of chemical testing would replace the need for human supervision which existed at the time Rav Moshe was mattir, but no longer does exist. He is saying, though, that it does not create a mirsus – because they don’t have any policy to do it, and the only available test is DNA testing, which is expensive.
Again, I don’t personally know what the metzius was, or is now, but the OU itself acknowledges that it did change, although as noted, they say for the better.
JT, exactly how is the FDA “watching”? Perhaps Rabbi Gordimer can answer you. I’m sure there’s a rebuttal and a counter rebuttal and a counter counter rebuttal etc. I’m just pointing out what’s out there.
LC, it’s very relevant to those who don’t don’t follow R’ Moshe’s heter, but want to use stam butter. There are people who did in the past but no longer do. As far as the rest of the discussion, feel free to skip it if you don’t find it useful or interesting. Others might.
Sam, ?”?, ?”?, ????. Really, it’s pashtus in the ???? ???”?, although the ????? is ???? a ?”? like you.
But that wasn’t the gezeirah.
I found an online link to that letter. Google “ChalavAkumLetter.pdf”.
Milk from other animals could be mixed in even if the other animals aren’t present.
Part of the teshuvah from the Nirbater Rov:
…???? ???? ?????, ??? ????? ??”? ?? ????”? ?????? ???, ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???”? ?????, ?? ???? ??? ???????, ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???, ????????? ????? ???????, ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????, ??????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???????? ???????? ?? ?????? ??????????? ?? ?? ?? ????????? ????? ???? ???.
?????? ??? ????????? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??, ??? ??? ??? ????? (????) ???? ?? ?? ?????, ?? ?”? ?????? ?????. ?”? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?????, ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ????. ??”? ????? ??? ???”? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ????”? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???, ??? ?? ???? ??”? ????? ??? ????? ?????
Cherrybim, I never told anyone whom to follow. I’m just pointing out that there’s a possibility that nowadays, cholov stam is not okay mei’ikar hadin (and not just because of the treifah issue).
Sam, the ??”? says:
??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????, ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? — ????, ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????
I believe they do allow ???? ????, but we’re discussing where he’s not present at all.
Disagree about Slifkin.
I’m asking if an ulcer qualifies as a “hole”.
Yes, the few times I’ve seen gallon containers, the price was basically the same, perhaps ten cents less.
Why does Chalav Yisrael have any spoilage issues?
Bacteria.
Personally, I buy smaller amounts more frequently during the summer, and very infrequently have spoilage. The point about gallon containers is valid, though. For some reason, probably handling, it has been observed that CY milk has more issues than CS. I don’t know if anyone ever did a real head to head comparison or it’s just a stereotype, but there is that perception. A gallon container will be more likely to spoil than one half gallon container bought after another, and even than two bought together, because it will spend more time unrefrigerated.
I don’t know why you are dismissing out of hand something which some serious talmidei chachomim hold to be a problem.
He didn’t say why. He said it in response to my bringing up the Nirbater Rov’s opiniin, so that is the implication.
The DA issue came to the forefront after Rav Moshe was niftar, and I don’t think (but could be mistaken) that he was quoted as being mattir.
Rav Dovid does apparently still hold that cholov stam is muttar mei’ikar hadin, so that would mean that he is meikil on both issues. My point is just that the heter applying today is not l’kulei alma, but there’s still whom to rely upon.
Today, the heter is only stronger than before.
According to the OU. According to the Nirbater Rov, in a speech he gave at an AKO conference several years ago, the heter is no longer valid. When I asked a different well known posek for his opinion, he told me (and asked not to be quoted), “You should be machmir”.
If you hold that once the wound heals the cow is no longer a Treifah
Does anyone hold this way?
Gavra, ????? ????? ?, ?.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14334&st=&pgnum=40&hilite=
Are ulcers listed in the ???????
Gavra, there’s a famous Chazon Ish about this. He talks about 2000 year tekufos. I don’t have the citation on hand.
Simply put, the twelve month lifespan (which is itself a machlokes) is how the identity of treifos is determined, but once we have a list of which perforations are considered a treifah, it’s still a treifah even if it lives longer, including if new treatments become available. The gemara you cited clls it a siman, not a sibah.
ZD, basically correct, but soft cheese is actually a machlokes, although common minhag (and OU policy) is to be meikil.
I think the reason some people like to denigrate the quality of frum novels is to justify themselves for reading other material, which often contains inappropriate content (almost unheard of in the frum publications).
Even if we grant that there is a difference in the quality level, it doesn’t justify it, and I’ll tell you, there are plenty of intelligent frum people who very much enjoy frum literature. Ray’s Pizza might very well be better than Binyomin’s Kosher Pizza, but I still enjoy the kosher stuff.
Perhaps their minds weren’t spoiled by the spiritually harmful stuff which some of the complainers have indulged in.
Redleg, they’ve figured out how to add the proper enzymes to coagulate different types of milk to form cheese. There are cheaper cheeses from milk of a beheimah temeiah than what you mentioned, such as from camel’s milk.
The common heter for cholov stam is used for the source of milk used in kosher cheese (e.g. Miller’s), but the actual issur of gevinas akum (affecting the cheese making process) is still applicable even if you hold of R’ Moshe’s heter.
Oomis, the gemara (.?????? ?) says that the early sages were called sofrim because they counted letters, words and pesukim. The gemara tells us what the half way point in each was calculated at, but it doesn’t match with a different calculation made later. The gemara resolves this by saying that the earlier sages were more proficient in “chaseros viyeseiros” and in the breakup of the pesukim.
True, but there are halachos in S.A. about what to do if you are late.
But is that significant enough to rule out everything besides Divine input?
Mathematically possible to be random, or not?
What kind of significance? Do you specifically mean that it is impossible to be random or done intentionally by a human author?
Rebyidd, what do you mean by “real”?
I’ve answered all of them (some multiple times), but you’ll continue to ignore my answers, create more straw men, twist my words and position, and call ME dishonest. So I’m out.
There is no point in continuing this further.
No, the codes were only tried on the version we have, but even if it were tried on a thousand and worked, we would (if the math is humanly impossible) say Hashem put it in all. Also, what you call “by accident”, I call by hashgachah pratis. I believe Hashem has the ability to orchestrate how our sefer Torah appears. Don’t you? It could even be that he arranged for the codes to b’davka be in the version we have at the time the codes would be discovered, as a kiruv tool. This is all conjecture to answer a kashya oif a maaseh.
The Christian coders might be quacks as well. I don’t know or care. I don’t believe the experts Aish quote are, though. Might they be wrong? For the sixth (?) time, I don’t know, and I do not wish to form an opinion about something which requires expertise but I’m not an expert at.
“If”. Please don’t misrepresent my clear statement and position.